How Much of a Theist or Atheist are You?

[Weatherman2020]

Again.
View attachment 121164

Except for the fact that they are sitting on a real life dog??? If you are now claiming that the planet earth is god, or that everything is god, how do you know this? See, I hate not knowing if you are bible thumper or a generic god believer. Because either way, where did you come up with the concept that there must be a god? And then when did you make the leap that it cares about you? Then when did you come up with the idea that you yourself become a god when you die?

Your questions are legitimate. But let's be careful to not confuse religion, which is always man made, with faith.

Again, many theists have a kind of certainty of God because they have a very real experience, even a relationship with some force or Being that they only vaguely understand. They may not fully understand it, and sometime fear or perhaps stubbornness prevents them from fully embracing or trusting this Being that they know, but they have little doubt that the Being exists.

Religion attaches liturgy, rules, regulation, expectations, requirements, dogma and doctrine to some being or beings that may or may not be useful or necessary or even proper.

I suspect when we meet the God (being) that we have experienced face to face, that Being won't be particularly interested in or impressed by our theology but rather who and what we choose to be as human beings or the souls that have been created.

I used to think I had a personal relationship with god, even when I gave up on religions. You can't fake belief. You can pretend to believe but you can't fake it. If a person doesn't believe a god exists what can you do? The answer is nothing. Either something in their brain convinces them sometime down the road that there is a god or it doesn't. I can tell you that nothing you or any Christian can say to me to convince me your god is real.

And as for generic creator of all the universe? One that doesn't care but created everything? That god doesn't care if you believe the Jesus, Lazeris or Jonah stories. So it doesn't matter that you worship it and I don't. If you think you are scoring points with this generic creator then by all means, if that makes you feel better about yourself. But to suggest someone is less good of a person for not believing in a creator to me seems stupid. Unless of course you believe one of the organized religions and then they'll tell you it is wrong, in fact BLASPHEMY to suggest there is no creator.

That god doesn't care if you believe the Jesus, Lazeris or Jonah stories.

And you have the audacity to claim you know this how?
You fabricate it because you need a lie to prop up what you wish to believe.

Isn't that what Christians do? No! They tell us that God told them these things. I say BULLSHIT!

You have the audacity to suggest god cares if you believe the Jesus story? Why? Because your man made book says so?

Claiming to know what others experience, tsk tsk.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Except for the fact that they are sitting on a real life dog??? If you are now claiming that the planet earth is god, or that everything is god, how do you know this? See, I hate not knowing if you are bible thumper or a generic god believer. Because either way, where did you come up with the concept that there must be a god? And then when did you make the leap that it cares about you? Then when did you come up with the idea that you yourself become a god when you die?

Ummm, it's a cartoon. Meant to poke fun at a concept, not be the basis of scientific fact.

They get all agitated at the silliest things. Part of the insecurity issue.

I'm not insecure. You know who's insecure? Theists. When I try to tell my dad or brother there is no god boy do they get defensive. And I am not even allowed to suggest it to my nephew. I guess the brainwashing isn't complete at 15 years old.

I love debating theology with those of differing views.
But only atheists resort to childish responses like "you just hate science" or "your big spaghetti monster". So yes, atheists are insecure.

And did it ever occur to you that your family reacts to your statement that there is no God because they love you? They believe what Jesus said - faith in Him is what gets you into heaven. If your family supported you rejecting that offer from Jesus then I would be concerned. But obviously they care about you. Ponder that.

And you have the audacity to claim that you know what Jesus said how? And that it even matters, how?

History.

 

[Divine Wind]

....And I doubt at 17 years old you were smart enough to come to the conclusion there is no god. What reasons did you have for not believing in God(s) back then? And then tell us about this experience that changed you. Not that it will impress me.

Of course you doubt it; You make the common mistake of assuming I'm just like you.

I was reading at college level when I was 12. I progressed from standard child Bible school attendee to agnostic to atheist by 16. My parents even had elders from our church come over for an "intervention". Everyone was nice about it, but they were very questioning about why I disbelieved. (Mostly due to the inconsistencies between science and statements in the Bible).

 

[Foxfyre]

Faith is the absence of evidence. Thinking people need evidence.

Again.
View attachment 121164

Except for the fact that they are sitting on a real life dog??? If you are now claiming that the planet earth is god, or that everything is god, how do you know this? See, I hate not knowing if you are bible thumper or a generic god believer. Because either way, where did you come up with the concept that there must be a god? And then when did you make the leap that it cares about you? Then when did you come up with the idea that you yourself become a god when you die?

Ummm, it's a cartoon. Meant to poke fun at a concept, not be the basis of scientific fact.

They get all agitated at the silliest things. Part of the insecurity issue.

I'm not insecure. You know who's insecure? Theists. When I try to tell my dad or brother there is no god boy do they get defensive. And I am not even allowed to suggest it to my nephew. I guess the brainwashing isn't complete at 15 years old.

Not insecure? Then why would you feel compelled to tell a theist that there is no God? What prompts those who try to destroy the faith of somebody who takes comfort in that faith? Who finds value in that faith?

What sort of evil prompts somebody to take away that which harms the Atheist in no fashion whatsoever, but others value and cherish?

 

[Mudda]

Ummm, it's a cartoon. Meant to poke fun at a concept, not be the basis of scientific fact.

They get all agitated at the silliest things. Part of the insecurity issue.

I'm not insecure. You know who's insecure? Theists. When I try to tell my dad or brother there is no god boy do they get defensive. And I am not even allowed to suggest it to my nephew. I guess the brainwashing isn't complete at 15 years old.

I love debating theology with those of differing views.
But only atheists resort to childish responses like "you just hate science" or "your big spaghetti monster". So yes, atheists are insecure.

And did it ever occur to you that your family reacts to your statement that there is no God because they love you? They believe what Jesus said - faith in Him is what gets you into heaven. If your family supported you rejecting that offer from Jesus then I would be concerned. But obviously they care about you. Ponder that.

And you have the audacity to claim that you know what Jesus said how? And that it even matters, how?

History.

The bible's earliest fragments date to several generations after the facts, making it all hearsay at best. It's a well-know fact that nothing was written down when (and if) Jesus spoke. Got anything for real or is that it?

 

[Divine Wind]

The bible's earliest fragments date to several generations after the facts, making it all hearsay at best. It's a well-know fact that nothing was written down when (and if) Jesus spoke. Got anything for real or is that it?

No several "generations", but decades. This also explains why the Romans didn't document the execution of a simple rabbi.

 

[mamooth]

Which is why agnostic is the only thinking person's position, because absence of evidence isn't evidence. It's faith.

No, incorrect. Absence of evidence is evidence of absence, if there's enough of it.

If A sometimes implies B, and B _never_ happens after zillions of observations, then logic says we should conclude A is wrong.

Everyone acts that way for most things in their life. Some people just make a special exception to that common sense rule for the matter of religion, which isn't logical.

 

[Foxfyre]

The bible's earliest fragments date to several generations after the facts, making it all hearsay at best. It's a well-know fact that nothing was written down when (and if) Jesus spoke. Got anything for real or is that it?

No several "generations", but decades. This also explains why the Romans didn't document the execution of a simple rabbi.

Or common thieves or anybody else who the government decreed merited execution via crucifixion. The Roman government and military did have some policy with merit, but was not big on social justice and was exceedingly cruel and insensitive to the suffering they imposed upon those who did not matter to them. It is noteworthy that something so common as crucifixion of criminals would become uncommon soon after it was done to Jesus of Nazareth.

 

[Mudda]

The bible's earliest fragments date to several generations after the facts, making it all hearsay at best. It's a well-know fact that nothing was written down when (and if) Jesus spoke. Got anything for real or is that it?

No several "generations", but decades. This also explains why the Romans didn't document the execution of a simple rabbi.

There's zero proof that those who are claimed to have written parts of the bible (like Luke) actually wrote them. None.

 

[Foxfyre]

Just as hard to prove something doesn't exist. "An absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence".

Smart people acknowledge this is a matter of faith, not logic.

Faith is the absence of evidence. Thinking people need evidence.

Again.
View attachment 121164

Except for the fact that they are sitting on a real life dog??? If you are now claiming that the planet earth is god, or that everything is god, how do you know this? See, I hate not knowing if you are bible thumper or a generic god believer. Because either way, where did you come up with the concept that there must be a god? And then when did you make the leap that it cares about you? Then when did you come up with the idea that you yourself become a god when you die?

Your questions are legitimate. But let's be careful to not confuse religion, which is always man made, with faith.

Again, many theists have a kind of certainty of God because they have a very real experience, even a relationship with some force or Being that they only vaguely understand. They may not fully understand it, and sometime fear or perhaps stubbornness prevents them from fully embracing or trusting this Being that they know, but they have little doubt that the Being exists.

Religion attaches liturgy, rules, regulation, expectations, requirements, dogma and doctrine to some being or beings that may or may not be useful or necessary or even proper.

I suspect when we meet the God (being) that we have experienced face to face, that Being won't be particularly interested in or impressed by our theology but rather who and what we choose to be as human beings or the souls that have been created.

I used to think I had a personal relationship with god, even when I gave up on religions. You can't fake belief. You can pretend to believe but you can't fake it. If a person doesn't believe a god exists what can you do? The answer is nothing. Either something in their brain convinces them sometime down the road that there is a god or it doesn't. I can tell you that nothing you or any Christian can say to me to convince me your god is real.

And as for generic creator of all the universe? One that doesn't care but created everything? That god doesn't care if you believe the Jesus, Lazeris or Jonah stories. So it doesn't matter that you worship it and I don't. If you think you are scoring points with this generic creator then by all means, if that makes you feel better about yourself. But to suggest someone is less good of a person for not believing in a creator to me seems stupid. Unless of course you believe one of the organized religions and then they'll tell you it is wrong, in fact BLASPHEMY to suggest there is no creator.

Your problem, IMO, is that you equated the man made disciplines or liturgy of religion to be God, And then, because such man made disciplines and liturgy designed by flawed human beings are of necessity in themselves flawed, you chose to discard God along with the trappings of religion.

Your error I think was in assuming that the religion was God.

 

[sealybobo]

Again.
View attachment 121164

Except for the fact that they are sitting on a real life dog??? If you are now claiming that the planet earth is god, or that everything is god, how do you know this? See, I hate not knowing if you are bible thumper or a generic god believer. Because either way, where did you come up with the concept that there must be a god? And then when did you make the leap that it cares about you? Then when did you come up with the idea that you yourself become a god when you die?

Ummm, it's a cartoon. Meant to poke fun at a concept, not be the basis of scientific fact.

They get all agitated at the silliest things. Part of the insecurity issue.

I'm not insecure. You know who's insecure? Theists. When I try to tell my dad or brother there is no god boy do they get defensive. And I am not even allowed to suggest it to my nephew. I guess the brainwashing isn't complete at 15 years old.

Not insecure? Then why would you feel compelled to tell a theist that there is no God? What prompts those who try to destroy the faith of somebody who takes comfort in that faith? Who finds value in that faith?

What sort of evil prompts somebody to take away that which harms the Atheist in no fashion whatsoever, but others value and cherish?

We think this does harm us. From ISIS to the stupidity of christian voters. We think it has held civilization back thousands of years. Religion has been anti science for hundreds of years. And the attrocities. And then you try to say this is a Christian nation. No it is not. If you understood this isn't a Christian nation it's for all of us then I would back off. So don't wonder why atheists attack religions because they brainwash people.

And I don't do this in public. If you are here in this thread, you are asking to hear the truth. You don't see us spouting off on street corners telling anyone they'll go to hell if they believe, do you? You can't come on USMB and be a pussy.

I think religion is very harmful so I am encouraged to see that the internet has had a lot to do with turning people atheist. Our species will be far less gullible when it gives us delusions of grandure. And people will start looking to improve their here and now rather than cope with a shitty life waiting for an afterlife.

 

[sealybobo]

Faith is the absence of evidence. Thinking people need evidence.

Again.
View attachment 121164

Except for the fact that they are sitting on a real life dog??? If you are now claiming that the planet earth is god, or that everything is god, how do you know this? See, I hate not knowing if you are bible thumper or a generic god believer. Because either way, where did you come up with the concept that there must be a god? And then when did you make the leap that it cares about you? Then when did you come up with the idea that you yourself become a god when you die?

Your questions are legitimate. But let's be careful to not confuse religion, which is always man made, with faith.

Again, many theists have a kind of certainty of God because they have a very real experience, even a relationship with some force or Being that they only vaguely understand. They may not fully understand it, and sometime fear or perhaps stubbornness prevents them from fully embracing or trusting this Being that they know, but they have little doubt that the Being exists.

Religion attaches liturgy, rules, regulation, expectations, requirements, dogma and doctrine to some being or beings that may or may not be useful or necessary or even proper.

I suspect when we meet the God (being) that we have experienced face to face, that Being won't be particularly interested in or impressed by our theology but rather who and what we choose to be as human beings or the souls that have been created.

I used to think I had a personal relationship with god, even when I gave up on religions. You can't fake belief. You can pretend to believe but you can't fake it. If a person doesn't believe a god exists what can you do? The answer is nothing. Either something in their brain convinces them sometime down the road that there is a god or it doesn't. I can tell you that nothing you or any Christian can say to me to convince me your god is real.

And as for generic creator of all the universe? One that doesn't care but created everything? That god doesn't care if you believe the Jesus, Lazeris or Jonah stories. So it doesn't matter that you worship it and I don't. If you think you are scoring points with this generic creator then by all means, if that makes you feel better about yourself. But to suggest someone is less good of a person for not believing in a creator to me seems stupid. Unless of course you believe one of the organized religions and then they'll tell you it is wrong, in fact BLASPHEMY to suggest there is no creator.

Your problem, IMO, is that you equated the man made disciplines or liturgy of religion to be God, And then, because such man made disciplines and liturgy designed by flawed human beings are of necessity in themselves flawed, you chose to discard God along with the trappings of religion.

Your error I think was in assuming that the religion was God.

Maybe there is a creator. Man has been contemplating that for a long time. Maybe there is and maybe there isn't. So what?

 

[sealybobo]

A fucking men

 

[Foxfyre]

The bible's earliest fragments date to several generations after the facts, making it all hearsay at best. It's a well-know fact that nothing was written down when (and if) Jesus spoke. Got anything for real or is that it?

No several "generations", but decades. This also explains why the Romans didn't document the execution of a simple rabbi.

There's zero proof that those who are claimed to have written parts of the bible (like Luke) actually wrote them. None.

It is true that there are various theories on the compilation and authorship or editorship of the synoptic Gospels, all of which are collections of testimonies of Jesus life and teachings here on Earth and were no doubt pulled from myriad sources. All were edited to be more theological statements rather than chronological history.

Did those events documented nowhere else that we know of actually happen? Nobody knows for certain. Nevertheless countless millions have been instructed, encouraged, strengthened, comforted, empowered, and influenced by that text, as well as all the others, that has endured the test of time as nothing else ever written has.

Yes there are those fanatics who misinterpreted the scriptures and misused them with terrible consequences. Yes there are those who deliberately misuse the scriptures for their own gain or motives.

But first the Jews who embraced the God of the Old Testament, and the Christians who gained a different understanding of God in the New Testament have affected and changed the world for good as no other force has done. Most of the world's democratic republics, almost all of the thrift shops, soup kitchens, ministries to the homeless, the addicted, leper colonies, and relief effort for some of the world's most poor and desperate people as well as many hospitals, universities, and other institutions of learning or ministry were and are organized and influenced by people of the Christian or Jewish faith.

Without the JudeoChristian faith it would be a very different world than what we have, and I think even the Atheists who enjoy liberty and justice as few peoples of the world have ever known would not like that world.

 

[Foxfyre]

Which is why agnostic is the only thinking person's position, because absence of evidence isn't evidence. It's faith.

No, incorrect. Absence of evidence is evidence of absence, if there's enough of it.

If A sometimes implies B, and B _never_ happens after zillions of observations, then logic says we should conclude A is wrong.

Everyone acts that way for most things in their life. Some people just make a special exception to that common sense rule for the matter of religion, which isn't logical.

Referencing your paragraph I highlighted, I would agree that it is probable that B does not exist.

But given testimony of millions/billions of Christians who testify to a personal relationship or real life experience with B, would it not logically follow that it is probable that B exists?

 

[Foxfyre]

Again.
View attachment 121164

Except for the fact that they are sitting on a real life dog??? If you are now claiming that the planet earth is god, or that everything is god, how do you know this? See, I hate not knowing if you are bible thumper or a generic god believer. Because either way, where did you come up with the concept that there must be a god? And then when did you make the leap that it cares about you? Then when did you come up with the idea that you yourself become a god when you die?

Your questions are legitimate. But let's be careful to not confuse religion, which is always man made, with faith.

Again, many theists have a kind of certainty of God because they have a very real experience, even a relationship with some force or Being that they only vaguely understand. They may not fully understand it, and sometime fear or perhaps stubbornness prevents them from fully embracing or trusting this Being that they know, but they have little doubt that the Being exists.

Religion attaches liturgy, rules, regulation, expectations, requirements, dogma and doctrine to some being or beings that may or may not be useful or necessary or even proper.

I suspect when we meet the God (being) that we have experienced face to face, that Being won't be particularly interested in or impressed by our theology but rather who and what we choose to be as human beings or the souls that have been created.

I used to think I had a personal relationship with god, even when I gave up on religions. You can't fake belief. You can pretend to believe but you can't fake it. If a person doesn't believe a god exists what can you do? The answer is nothing. Either something in their brain convinces them sometime down the road that there is a god or it doesn't. I can tell you that nothing you or any Christian can say to me to convince me your god is real.

And as for generic creator of all the universe? One that doesn't care but created everything? That god doesn't care if you believe the Jesus, Lazeris or Jonah stories. So it doesn't matter that you worship it and I don't. If you think you are scoring points with this generic creator then by all means, if that makes you feel better about yourself. But to suggest someone is less good of a person for not believing in a creator to me seems stupid. Unless of course you believe one of the organized religions and then they'll tell you it is wrong, in fact BLASPHEMY to suggest there is no creator.

Your problem, IMO, is that you equated the man made disciplines or liturgy of religion to be God, And then, because such man made disciplines and liturgy designed by flawed human beings are of necessity in themselves flawed, you chose to discard God along with the trappings of religion.

Your error I think was in assuming that the religion was God.

Maybe there is a creator. Man has been contemplating that for a long time. Maybe there is and maybe there isn't. So what?

So why would somebody so persistently attempt to destroy the faith of those who believe in a Creator? How does somebody justify denigrating, ridiculing, or demeaning those who find value in something that does no harm in any way to those who do not believe?

And in defense of your side, I have to sympathize with those who suffer the infrequent fanatical Christian who is in your face with all manner of threats and/or being accused of all manner of evil if they do not believe as that Christian does. Some of us Christians have suffered that.

I seriously doubt anybody has ever been persuaded to seek a relationship with the living God by being told he or she was going to hell. And I suspect some continue to reject the possibility of the living God because of the unattractive and toxic way that they were introduced to Him.

 

[sealybobo]

Except for the fact that they are sitting on a real life dog??? If you are now claiming that the planet earth is god, or that everything is god, how do you know this? See, I hate not knowing if you are bible thumper or a generic god believer. Because either way, where did you come up with the concept that there must be a god? And then when did you make the leap that it cares about you? Then when did you come up with the idea that you yourself become a god when you die?

Your questions are legitimate. But let's be careful to not confuse religion, which is always man made, with faith.

Again, many theists have a kind of certainty of God because they have a very real experience, even a relationship with some force or Being that they only vaguely understand. They may not fully understand it, and sometime fear or perhaps stubbornness prevents them from fully embracing or trusting this Being that they know, but they have little doubt that the Being exists.

Religion attaches liturgy, rules, regulation, expectations, requirements, dogma and doctrine to some being or beings that may or may not be useful or necessary or even proper.

I suspect when we meet the God (being) that we have experienced face to face, that Being won't be particularly interested in or impressed by our theology but rather who and what we choose to be as human beings or the souls that have been created.

I used to think I had a personal relationship with god, even when I gave up on religions. You can't fake belief. You can pretend to believe but you can't fake it. If a person doesn't believe a god exists what can you do? The answer is nothing. Either something in their brain convinces them sometime down the road that there is a god or it doesn't. I can tell you that nothing you or any Christian can say to me to convince me your god is real.

And as for generic creator of all the universe? One that doesn't care but created everything? That god doesn't care if you believe the Jesus, Lazeris or Jonah stories. So it doesn't matter that you worship it and I don't. If you think you are scoring points with this generic creator then by all means, if that makes you feel better about yourself. But to suggest someone is less good of a person for not believing in a creator to me seems stupid. Unless of course you believe one of the organized religions and then they'll tell you it is wrong, in fact BLASPHEMY to suggest there is no creator.

Your problem, IMO, is that you equated the man made disciplines or liturgy of religion to be God, And then, because such man made disciplines and liturgy designed by flawed human beings are of necessity in themselves flawed, you chose to discard God along with the trappings of religion.

Your error I think was in assuming that the religion was God.

Maybe there is a creator. Man has been contemplating that for a long time. Maybe there is and maybe there isn't. So what?

So why would somebody so persistently attempt to destroy the faith of those who believe in a Creator? How does somebody justify denigrating, ridiculing, or demeaning those who find value in something that does no harm in any way to those who do not believe?

And in defense of your side, I have to sympathize with those who suffer the infrequent fanatical Christian who is in your face with all manner of threats and/or being accused of all manner of evil if they do not believe as that Christian does. Some of us Christians have suffered that.

I seriously doubt anybody has ever been persuaded to seek a relationship with the living God by being told he or she was going to hell. And I suspect some continue to reject the possibility of the living God because of the unattractive and toxic way that they were introduced to Him.

Like I said I would never tell a believer to their face that they are dumb. I have to hope they run into me here.
All the nice people at the church I went to Sunday. You are right, I wouldn't want to be the one to wake them up from their brainwashing. If that ignorance is making them bliss I should just ignore it and let them stay happy even if I think it's holding us all back. Because there are an awful lot of dummies on this planet. Sheep if you ask me. And you can't cry that I'm doing it to you because you asked for it coming here. It's like I'm a shark and you ventured off into shark invested water. Had you just stayed on land you would have remained safe. And I'm a shark not a croc. A croc doesn't wait for the pray to jump fully in. At least I wait.



I would never do that to a theist.

Once you come on to USMB you pretty much become a Seal

 

[Foxfyre]

Except for the fact that they are sitting on a real life dog??? If you are now claiming that the planet earth is god, or that everything is god, how do you know this? See, I hate not knowing if you are bible thumper or a generic god believer. Because either way, where did you come up with the concept that there must be a god? And then when did you make the leap that it cares about you? Then when did you come up with the idea that you yourself become a god when you die?

Ummm, it's a cartoon. Meant to poke fun at a concept, not be the basis of scientific fact.

They get all agitated at the silliest things. Part of the insecurity issue.

I'm not insecure. You know who's insecure? Theists. When I try to tell my dad or brother there is no god boy do they get defensive. And I am not even allowed to suggest it to my nephew. I guess the brainwashing isn't complete at 15 years old.

Not insecure? Then why would you feel compelled to tell a theist that there is no God? What prompts those who try to destroy the faith of somebody who takes comfort in that faith? Who finds value in that faith?

What sort of evil prompts somebody to take away that which harms the Atheist in no fashion whatsoever, but others value and cherish?

We think this does harm us. From ISIS to the stupidity of christian voters. We think it has held civilization back thousands of years. Religion has been anti science for hundreds of years. And the attrocities. And then you try to say this is a Christian nation. No it is not. If you understood this isn't a Christian nation it's for all of us then I would back off. So don't wonder why atheists attack religions because they brainwash people.

And I don't do this in public. If you are here in this thread, you are asking to hear the truth. You don't see us spouting off on street corners telling anyone they'll go to hell if they believe, do you? You can't come on USMB and be a pussy.

I think religion is very harmful so I am encouraged to see that the internet has had a lot to do with turning people atheist. Our species will be far less gullible when it gives us delusions of grandure. And people will start looking to improve their here and now rather than cope with a shitty life waiting for an afterlife.

Science as a discipline was developed mostly by Christians, almost entirely by theists. I know no Christians who are anti-science in any form or fashion. Yes there is a small minority who rejects some popular scientific theory but they are a small minority and do not represent the large bulk of us. It is as dishonest to tar all Christians with that brush as it would be to tar all Atheists as 'little Marxists, Lenins or Stalins' who were Atheist.

Show me the Atheist organizations who have organized thrift shops, soup kitchens, ministries to the desperate poor, ministries to lepers, who have risked their lives to open the minds of the ignorant before you make religion a destructive force on Earth. Christians routinely do that all the time, often at great personal risk and sacrifice.

I am currently fund raising for a group who will travel to Peru this summer to deliver refurbished wheel chairs, walkers, crutches, and other helpful apparatus to the poorest of the disabled who cannot afford such things themselves. And yes, the group is Christian motivated by Christian teachings and values. I would go with them if I was physically able, but I am not.

Show me an Atheist nation where social justice is the norm and in which all the people have opportunity to prosper beyond bare existence. And all such nations have defacto dictatorships or totalitarian governments.

Tell me one way that my being a Christian harms you in any way.

 

[Foxfyre]

Your questions are legitimate. But let's be careful to not confuse religion, which is always man made, with faith.

Again, many theists have a kind of certainty of God because they have a very real experience, even a relationship with some force or Being that they only vaguely understand. They may not fully understand it, and sometime fear or perhaps stubbornness prevents them from fully embracing or trusting this Being that they know, but they have little doubt that the Being exists.

Religion attaches liturgy, rules, regulation, expectations, requirements, dogma and doctrine to some being or beings that may or may not be useful or necessary or even proper.

I suspect when we meet the God (being) that we have experienced face to face, that Being won't be particularly interested in or impressed by our theology but rather who and what we choose to be as human beings or the souls that have been created.

I used to think I had a personal relationship with god, even when I gave up on religions. You can't fake belief. You can pretend to believe but you can't fake it. If a person doesn't believe a god exists what can you do? The answer is nothing. Either something in their brain convinces them sometime down the road that there is a god or it doesn't. I can tell you that nothing you or any Christian can say to me to convince me your god is real.

And as for generic creator of all the universe? One that doesn't care but created everything? That god doesn't care if you believe the Jesus, Lazeris or Jonah stories. So it doesn't matter that you worship it and I don't. If you think you are scoring points with this generic creator then by all means, if that makes you feel better about yourself. But to suggest someone is less good of a person for not believing in a creator to me seems stupid. Unless of course you believe one of the organized religions and then they'll tell you it is wrong, in fact BLASPHEMY to suggest there is no creator.

Your problem, IMO, is that you equated the man made disciplines or liturgy of religion to be God, And then, because such man made disciplines and liturgy designed by flawed human beings are of necessity in themselves flawed, you chose to discard God along with the trappings of religion.

Your error I think was in assuming that the religion was God.

Maybe there is a creator. Man has been contemplating that for a long time. Maybe there is and maybe there isn't. So what?

So why would somebody so persistently attempt to destroy the faith of those who believe in a Creator? How does somebody justify denigrating, ridiculing, or demeaning those who find value in something that does no harm in any way to those who do not believe?

And in defense of your side, I have to sympathize with those who suffer the infrequent fanatical Christian who is in your face with all manner of threats and/or being accused of all manner of evil if they do not believe as that Christian does. Some of us Christians have suffered that.

I seriously doubt anybody has ever been persuaded to seek a relationship with the living God by being told he or she was going to hell. And I suspect some continue to reject the possibility of the living God because of the unattractive and toxic way that they were introduced to Him.

Like I said I would never tell a believer to their face that they are dumb. I have to hope they run into me here.
All the nice people at the church I went to Sunday. You are right, I wouldn't want to be the one to wake them up from their brainwashing. If that ignorance is making them bliss I should just ignore it and let them stay happy even if I think it's holding us all back. Because there are an awful lot of dummies on this planet. Sheep if you ask me. And you can't cry that I'm doing it to you because you asked for it coming here. It's like I'm a shark and you ventured off into shark invested water. Had you just stayed on land you would have remained safe. And I'm a shark not a croc. A croc doesn't wait for the pray to jump fully in. At least I wait.



I would never do that to a theist.

Once you come on to USMB you pretty much become a Seal

If you would not do that to people in your social circle, why would you feel justified to doing it to people here at USMB?

 

[ding]

Which is why agnostic is the only thinking person's position, because absence of evidence isn't evidence. It's faith.

No, incorrect. Absence of evidence is evidence of absence, if there's enough of it.

If A sometimes implies B, and B _never_ happens after zillions of observations, then logic says we should conclude A is wrong.

Everyone acts that way for most things in their life. Some people just make a special exception to that common sense rule for the matter of religion, which isn't logical.

But there isn't absence of evidence. There are more than 24,000 written manuscripts.