How Much of a Theist or Atheist are You?

[BreezeWood]

.
and what of the Almighty's Garden vs the asphalt jungle ...

they say 100% of the deforestation of s america is caused by 4th century christians.

Really? Who says that? So far as I know, no Christian had ever set foot in the Americas until the late 15th Century.

.

Really? Who says that? So far as I know, no Christian had ever set foot in the Americas until the late 15th Century.

and that was to soon enough ...

Deforestation and Its Extreme Effect on Global Warming

Deforestation and Its Extreme Effect on Global Warming

From logging, agricultural production and other economic activities, deforestation adds more atmospheric CO2 than the sum total of cars and trucks on the world's roads

By most accounts, deforestation in tropical rainforests adds more carbon dioxide to the atmosphere than the sum total of cars and trucks on the world’s roads. According to the World Carfree Network (WCN), cars and trucks account for about 14 percent of global carbon emissions, while most analysts attribute upwards of 15 percent to deforestation.


those that turn a blinds eye to the truth ...

 

[ding]

We are presently in an interglacial cycle. Our present temperature is well below the peak temperatures of previous interglacial cycles. Deny that.

But our planet shouldn't be heating up this fast. Which means that we're helping the warming.

Who says this is any different than previous interglacial cycles? Does that mean you concede that our present temperature is below previous interglacial cycles.

We are pumping too much pollution into the atmosphere now that India, mexico and china are all manufacturing and driving cars. We're in trouble

Do you think that CO2 is pollution?

I know what the right wing spin is. I have a global warming denier buddy at work. Co2, glabal warming, pollution, bottom line is what were doing ain't good. Even right wingers don't deny it anymore. They may say there's nothing we can do about it or that it's not that big a deal but only the most retarded still deny it altogether.

Co2 ya later

So are you afraid to admit that you believe CO2 is a pollutant or what?

 

[ding]

We are presently in an interglacial cycle. Our present temperature is well below the peak temperatures of previous interglacial cycles. Deny that.

But our planet shouldn't be heating up this fast. Which means that we're helping the warming.

Who says this is any different than previous interglacial cycles? Does that mean you concede that our present temperature is below previous interglacial cycles.

We are pumping too much pollution into the atmosphere now that India, mexico and china are all manufacturing and driving cars. We're in trouble

Do you think that CO2 is pollution?

I know what the right wing spin is. I have a global warming denier buddy at work. Co2, glabal warming, pollution, bottom line is what were doing ain't good. Even right wingers don't deny it anymore. They may say there's nothing we can do about it or that it's not that big a deal but only the most retarded still deny it altogether.

Co2 ya later

Wow... doesn't that look like we have a problem!!!!

Not really. It is all part of a natural cycle that has been occurring for the past 400,000 years.

 

[sealybobo]

But our planet shouldn't be heating up this fast. Which means that we're helping the warming.

Who says this is any different than previous interglacial cycles? Does that mean you concede that our present temperature is below previous interglacial cycles.

We are pumping too much pollution into the atmosphere now that India, mexico and china are all manufacturing and driving cars. We're in trouble

Do you think that CO2 is pollution?

I know what the right wing spin is. I have a global warming denier buddy at work. Co2, glabal warming, pollution, bottom line is what were doing ain't good. Even right wingers don't deny it anymore. They may say there's nothing we can do about it or that it's not that big a deal but only the most retarded still deny it altogether.

Co2 ya later

Wow... doesn't that look like we have a problem!!!!

Not really. It is all part of a natural cycle that has been occurring for the past 400,000 years.

Scientists say you wrong

 

[Iceweasel]

Nope. Why do you mischaracterize people? I agreed Christianity plays a profound role but took issue with your statement that I even put in bold. Do you need giant red letters. I asked for said evidence, so far nothing. I have studied up on biblical matters for over twenty years so I'd love to see it.

I referred you to the evidence but you probably didn't read that any better than you did my other post. So it sort of follows that your 20-year study may possibly have been lacking.

More victory dancing. You can't bullshit everyone so easily. YOU PROVIDED NO PROOF OF JESUS.

I didn't attempt to. I did provide proof that Jesus, whether he lived or not, had a profound affect on humankind. And I also believe there is sufficient historical evidence to believe that such a man lived for those with the intelligence to see it - OR - the ability to study the evidence honestly and objectively. Those who study the evidence with no intent to learn anything or just because it is expected of them or who intend to declare it all bullshit of course will reach the conclusion they had to begin with.

I didn't dispute the influence of Christianity and said I didn't want to believe it wasn't true but I'm the one that can't read? I gave a few examples of why it wouldn't be true, the historians of the day for example. Jesus not writing anything down. Different language tells the story, Greek. But Jesus spoke Aramaic. Why didn't he speak Greek if that was the goal? No original works are extant so the whole story is 250 years minimum removed from the supposed events.

Jesus spoke Aramaic because he lived his entire life on Earth in a very small area in all Aramaic speaking communities. There are some first century manuscripts written In Aramaic but most of the late First Century and Second Century manuscripts were written in Latin or Greek. Most of the New Testament was written in classical Greek which was fairly universally understood throughout the Roman Empire.

The earliest intact manuscripts we have of New Testament material were the letters of Paul written mid First Century when many eye witnesses to First Century events were still around and far too early for any kind of mythology to have time to develop.

We do not have the original manuscripts of Plato and Aristotle either, but nobody questions that they existed or that the words attributed to them are made up. We have nothing from Cyrus of Persia or Alexander the Great but we are pretty sure they existed and had a profound influence on their part of the world at that time. It is widely believed that many of the ancient manuscripts were in the great library of Alexandria when it burned. It is possible that many of the original manuscripts of the Bible were also lost at that time.

I know why the Jesus character is said to have spoken Aramaic. That wasn't my question. I asked why it was spoken in one language and written dowa generation later in another. Platos original words could have been altered, who cares? If we had people building a religion on his original words then it would be analogous.

Post your evidence for first century NT manuscripts. Like I said, I've studied it. You obviously haven't. Speculating about what might have been burned up doesn't really help.

We do know that the Greek writers of the NT used the Septuagint as their OT and its' mistranslations right along with it. There are rational explanations for everything and the more one looks into it the more they will need to rely on their faith as facts get dismissed for wishful thinking.

 

[Mudda]

But our planet shouldn't be heating up this fast. Which means that we're helping the warming.

Who says this is any different than previous interglacial cycles? Does that mean you concede that our present temperature is below previous interglacial cycles.

Science says that humans are influencing the warming of the planet. Or don't you believe in science today?

Science tells us they we have been cycling between glacial and interglacial cycles and that our present temperature is below the temperatures of previous interglacial cycles. What you are referring to are computer models.

No, science tells us that the earth's temperature has risen too quickly for it to be a natural event.

Really? How much resolution is in that data (i.e. how many data points per year)? How much resolution is there in the previous interglacial periods? And lastly, are you acknowledging that our present temperatures are below the peak temperatures of previous interglacial periods?

The science is already in, so stop being such a science cherry picker.

 

[Mudda]

God knows that in my heart, I'm simply the type of person who needs concrete proof to believe something. He chooses not to contact me. That's his call.

Problem solved. Your loss.

So in your opinion, what am I looking for as a sign from god? Maybe I've seen a bunch and never thought of them that way. Go for it. I have a big bag.

I have no idea what you are looking for but then again I don't think you are looking at all.

So you have no clue. Why does that not surprise me?

Maybe it doesn't surprise you because you really haven't been looking for God at all.

I'm open for god to contact me. Always have been. He knows that. Seem fair to me.

 

[Mudda]

But our planet shouldn't be heating up this fast. Which means that we're helping the warming.

Who says this is any different than previous interglacial cycles? Does that mean you concede that our present temperature is below previous interglacial cycles.

We are pumping too much pollution into the atmosphere now that India, mexico and china are all manufacturing and driving cars. We're in trouble

Do you think that CO2 is pollution?

I know what the right wing spin is. I have a global warming denier buddy at work. Co2, glabal warming, pollution, bottom line is what were doing ain't good. Even right wingers don't deny it anymore. They may say there's nothing we can do about it or that it's not that big a deal but only the most retarded still deny it altogether.

Co2 ya later

Wow... doesn't that look like we have a problem!!!!

Not really. It is all part of a natural cycle that has been occurring for the past 400,000 years.

No problem? Hmmm...

Welcome to Baoding, China's most polluted city - CNN.com

 

[Iceweasel]

Not to mention that the gospels openly record that Jesus was ridiculed, rejected and despised as a nutjob and unrepentant sinner and drunk who was ultimately executed as a common criminal of no account.

The obvious reason for lack of historical corroboration is that no one recording important things going on back then would have thought otherwise.


Not the type of person even worthy of a footnote.


The only reason the name of Jesus is known at all unlike every other first century drunk is because the people who knew him personally believed in him and knew that he wasn't crazy to claim to be the messiah after hearing him teach and seeing with their own eyes Jesus reveal things that had been kept secret since the foundation of the world.

So the lack of evidence is evidence of a cover up? See, that's what happens. Problem with your theory is if the gospels were true many things would have been impossible to ignore. All the multitude following this rabbi around and him performing miracles of various sorts. Josephus droned on and on in daily minutia but didn't think it worthy to mention a dude walking on water, feeding thousand with a little bread and fish, healing lepers and cripples. It was a small enclosed community, surely the word got around.

And as I mentioned before, the earthquakes, walking dead eclipse. All pretty hard to ignore.

Also contemporary to the time was Philo. Now he loaned money to Herod and knew some of these characters personally. But more importantly was on the forefront of revisioning the OT in Hellenistic thought. We would consider it new age today. He was the first one we know of to use the term Logos to describe the physical operations of god.

Looking at the whole thing with no excuses or spin it's obvious the NT writers were familiar with his work, knew the OT only by the Greek translation, the Septuagint, putting oral stories into the written word.

 

[ding]

Who says this is any different than previous interglacial cycles? Does that mean you concede that our present temperature is below previous interglacial cycles.

We are pumping too much pollution into the atmosphere now that India, mexico and china are all manufacturing and driving cars. We're in trouble

Do you think that CO2 is pollution?

I know what the right wing spin is. I have a global warming denier buddy at work. Co2, glabal warming, pollution, bottom line is what were doing ain't good. Even right wingers don't deny it anymore. They may say there's nothing we can do about it or that it's not that big a deal but only the most retarded still deny it altogether.

Co2 ya later

Wow... doesn't that look like we have a problem!!!!

Not really. It is all part of a natural cycle that has been occurring for the past 400,000 years.

No problem? Hmmm...

Welcome to Baoding, China's most polluted city - CNN.com

That isn't CO2, Einstein.

 

[ding]

Who says this is any different than previous interglacial cycles? Does that mean you concede that our present temperature is below previous interglacial cycles.

We are pumping too much pollution into the atmosphere now that India, mexico and china are all manufacturing and driving cars. We're in trouble

Do you think that CO2 is pollution?

I know what the right wing spin is. I have a global warming denier buddy at work. Co2, glabal warming, pollution, bottom line is what were doing ain't good. Even right wingers don't deny it anymore. They may say there's nothing we can do about it or that it's not that big a deal but only the most retarded still deny it altogether.

Co2 ya later

Wow... doesn't that look like we have a problem!!!!

Not really. It is all part of a natural cycle that has been occurring for the past 400,000 years.

Scientists say you wrong

And yet our present temperature remains below temperatures of the previous interglacial cycles, lol.

 

[ding]

Who says this is any different than previous interglacial cycles? Does that mean you concede that our present temperature is below previous interglacial cycles.

We are pumping too much pollution into the atmosphere now that India, mexico and china are all manufacturing and driving cars. We're in trouble

Do you think that CO2 is pollution?

I know what the right wing spin is. I have a global warming denier buddy at work. Co2, glabal warming, pollution, bottom line is what were doing ain't good. Even right wingers don't deny it anymore. They may say there's nothing we can do about it or that it's not that big a deal but only the most retarded still deny it altogether.

Co2 ya later

Wow... doesn't that look like we have a problem!!!!

Not really. It is all part of a natural cycle that has been occurring for the past 400,000 years.

Scientists say you wrong

No one except you disagrees that our present temperature is below peak temperatures of past interglacial cycles.

 

[sealybobo]

Who says this is any different than previous interglacial cycles? Does that mean you concede that our present temperature is below previous interglacial cycles.

We are pumping too much pollution into the atmosphere now that India, mexico and china are all manufacturing and driving cars. We're in trouble

Do you think that CO2 is pollution?

I know what the right wing spin is. I have a global warming denier buddy at work. Co2, glabal warming, pollution, bottom line is what were doing ain't good. Even right wingers don't deny it anymore. They may say there's nothing we can do about it or that it's not that big a deal but only the most retarded still deny it altogether.

Co2 ya later

Wow... doesn't that look like we have a problem!!!!

Not really. It is all part of a natural cycle that has been occurring for the past 400,000 years.

No problem? Hmmm...

Welcome to Baoding, China's most polluted city - CNN.com

And I correlate this ignorance with religion. If you can convince the masses God visited it's got to be easy convincing them things like 2000 election wasn't rigged, global warming aren't real, trickle down works or that Saddam had wmd's.

A creator might exist that's true. But no religion is real. Every one of them is a lie. We are not special in that God made all this for us. Here's why that's silly. Take the dinosaurs time on earth and put it on 14 squares of toilet paper. Humans time on earth is 1 millimeter of 1 square. Religions can't explain what God was thinking for the 13 squares before us.

 

[ding]

Problem solved. Your loss.

So in your opinion, what am I looking for as a sign from god? Maybe I've seen a bunch and never thought of them that way. Go for it. I have a big bag.

I have no idea what you are looking for but then again I don't think you are looking at all.

So you have no clue. Why does that not surprise me?

Maybe it doesn't surprise you because you really haven't been looking for God at all.

I'm open for god to contact me. Always have been. He knows that. Seem fair to me.

Children do as they parents do and not as they say because they know that what their parents do is what they really believe.

 

[ding]

Who says this is any different than previous interglacial cycles? Does that mean you concede that our present temperature is below previous interglacial cycles.

Science says that humans are influencing the warming of the planet. Or don't you believe in science today?

Science tells us they we have been cycling between glacial and interglacial cycles and that our present temperature is below the temperatures of previous interglacial cycles. What you are referring to are computer models.

No, science tells us that the earth's temperature has risen too quickly for it to be a natural event.

Really? How much resolution is in that data (i.e. how many data points per year)? How much resolution is there in the previous interglacial periods? And lastly, are you acknowledging that our present temperatures are below the peak temperatures of previous interglacial periods?

The science is already in, so stop being such a science cherry picker.

I believe they are the cherry pickers. The world we live in is an ice house world with bipolar glaciation. Many consider this to be normal, but it is not. In fact, it is geologically rare and possibly distinct. For most of earth's history it has been a greenhouse world.

 

[Mudda]

We are pumping too much pollution into the atmosphere now that India, mexico and china are all manufacturing and driving cars. We're in trouble

Do you think that CO2 is pollution?

I know what the right wing spin is. I have a global warming denier buddy at work. Co2, glabal warming, pollution, bottom line is what were doing ain't good. Even right wingers don't deny it anymore. They may say there's nothing we can do about it or that it's not that big a deal but only the most retarded still deny it altogether.

Co2 ya later

Wow... doesn't that look like we have a problem!!!!

Not really. It is all part of a natural cycle that has been occurring for the past 400,000 years.

No problem? Hmmm...

Welcome to Baoding, China's most polluted city - CNN.com

That isn't CO2, Einstein.

CO2 isn't the only gas causing problems. Science can tell you that. Or is this a break-from-science weekend because you're celebrating Zombie Jesus day?

 

[Mudda]

So in your opinion, what am I looking for as a sign from god? Maybe I've seen a bunch and never thought of them that way. Go for it. I have a big bag.

I have no idea what you are looking for but then again I don't think you are looking at all.

So you have no clue. Why does that not surprise me?

Maybe it doesn't surprise you because you really haven't been looking for God at all.

I'm open for god to contact me. Always have been. He knows that. Seem fair to me.

Children do as they parents do and not as they say because they know that what their parents do is what they really believe.

WTF does that have to do with god contacting me? Are you lost?

 

[hobelim]

Not to mention that the gospels openly record that Jesus was ridiculed, rejected and despised as a nutjob and unrepentant sinner and drunk who was ultimately executed as a common criminal of no account.

The obvious reason for lack of historical corroboration is that no one recording important things going on back then would have thought otherwise.


Not the type of person even worthy of a footnote.


The only reason the name of Jesus is known at all unlike every other first century drunk is because the people who knew him personally believed in him and knew that he wasn't crazy to claim to be the messiah after hearing him teach and seeing with their own eyes Jesus reveal things that had been kept secret since the foundation of the world.

So the lack of evidence is evidence of a cover up? See, that's what happens. Problem with your theory is if the gospels were true many things would have been impossible to ignore. All the multitude following this rabbi around and him performing miracles of various sorts. Josephus droned on and on in daily minutia but didn't think it worthy to mention a dude walking on water, feeding thousand with a little bread and fish, healing lepers and cripples. It was a small enclosed community, surely the word got around.

And as I mentioned before, the earthquakes, walking dead eclipse. All pretty hard to ignore.

Also contemporary to the time was Philo. Now he loaned money to Herod and knew some of these characters personally. But more importantly was on the forefront of revisioning the OT in Hellenistic thought. We would consider it new age today. He was the first one we know of to use the term Logos to describe the physical operations of god.

Looking at the whole thing with no excuses or spin it's obvious the NT writers were familiar with his work, knew the OT only by the Greek translation, the Septuagint, putting oral stories into the written word.

Please don't put words in my mouth.

I did not say that the lack of evidence is evidence of cover up.

I said that the lack of evidence outside of the gospels is explained by the fact that Jesus was considered an unrepentant sinner and criminal of no account, most likely insane..

The style of writing used was the exact same style used in writing the OT. The entire story of Jesus can be factually and literally false but absolutely true at the same time depending on which way the words are interpreted.

Of course a story like feeding the multitude is impossible to be literally true but if you can perceive that it was never about feeding a large crowd of thousands of people with two fish and five loves but teaching a large crowd with seven disciples, represented by two fish and five loaves of bread, then it tells a hidden story that conforms to reality, the miracle, or sign that God was with Jesus, was that such a large and skeptical crowd was satisfied with his teaching and "miraculously" turned seven disciples into twelve represented by the 12 baskets full of the uneaten pieces of teaching, the little things that the crowd could not swallow.........

Part of the problem and an obstacle to understanding is that the word miracle is misleading. Originally they were recorded signs that God was with Jesus. These signs became demonstrations of divine power over reality when superstitious romans completely ignorant of Jewish thought, belief, and traditional literary expressions usurped authority over scripture and came to their own dumb conclusions..ie., Jesus was an edible mangod who hosted a magical fish sandwich party in the desert, raised the dead and was executed because God loved the Romans so much....etc...

In the same way there is rational way to interpret every single miracle of Jesus that conforms to reality. One need only apply well known and long established literary techniques, metaphors, allegory, homonyms, hyperbole, etc., to discern what was deliberately hidden by Jews who believed that Jesus was the Holy One of God.

If you look and look and keep on looking you will find it.

If you don't look, you will find nothing...


The truth of the gospels and the mystery of God remains above the grasp of those who do not think very deeply....

 

[Mudda]

Science says that humans are influencing the warming of the planet. Or don't you believe in science today?

Science tells us they we have been cycling between glacial and interglacial cycles and that our present temperature is below the temperatures of previous interglacial cycles. What you are referring to are computer models.

No, science tells us that the earth's temperature has risen too quickly for it to be a natural event.

Really? How much resolution is in that data (i.e. how many data points per year)? How much resolution is there in the previous interglacial periods? And lastly, are you acknowledging that our present temperatures are below the peak temperatures of previous interglacial periods?

The science is already in, so stop being such a science cherry picker.

I believe they are the cherry pickers. The world we live in is an ice house world with bipolar glaciation. Many consider this to be normal, but it is not. In fact, it is geologically rare and possibly distinct. For most of earth's history it has been a greenhouse world.

So you don't deny global warming, but you embrace it. Me too.

 

[Iceweasel]

Not to mention that the gospels openly record that Jesus was ridiculed, rejected and despised as a nutjob and unrepentant sinner and drunk who was ultimately executed as a common criminal of no account.

The obvious reason for lack of historical corroboration is that no one recording important things going on back then would have thought otherwise.


Not the type of person even worthy of a footnote.


The only reason the name of Jesus is known at all unlike every other first century drunk is because the people who knew him personally believed in him and knew that he wasn't crazy to claim to be the messiah after hearing him teach and seeing with their own eyes Jesus reveal things that had been kept secret since the foundation of the world.

So the lack of evidence is evidence of a cover up? See, that's what happens. Problem with your theory is if the gospels were true many things would have been impossible to ignore. All the multitude following this rabbi around and him performing miracles of various sorts. Josephus droned on and on in daily minutia but didn't think it worthy to mention a dude walking on water, feeding thousand with a little bread and fish, healing lepers and cripples. It was a small enclosed community, surely the word got around.

And as I mentioned before, the earthquakes, walking dead eclipse. All pretty hard to ignore.

Also contemporary to the time was Philo. Now he loaned money to Herod and knew some of these characters personally. But more importantly was on the forefront of revisioning the OT in Hellenistic thought. We would consider it new age today. He was the first one we know of to use the term Logos to describe the physical operations of god.

Looking at the whole thing with no excuses or spin it's obvious the NT writers were familiar with his work, knew the OT only by the Greek translation, the Septuagint, putting oral stories into the written word.

Please don't put words in my mouth.

I did not say that the lack of evidence is evidence of cover up.

I said that the lack of evidence outside of the gospels is explained by the fact that Jesus was considered an unrepentant sinner and criminal of no account, most likely insane..

The style of writing used was the exact same style used in writing the OT. The entire story of Jesus can be factually and literally false but absolutely true at the same time depending on which way the words are interpreted.

Of course a story like feeding the multitude is impossible to be literally true but if you can perceive that it was never about feeding a large crowd of thousands of people with two fish and five loves but teaching a large crowd with seven disciples, represented by two fish and five loaves of bread, then it tells a hidden story that conforms to reality, the miracle being such a large and skeptical crowd was satisfied with his teaching and miraculously turned seven disciples into twelve represented by the 12 baskets full of the uneaten pieces of teaching, the little things that the crowd could not swallow.........

Part of the problem and an obstacle to understanding is that the word miracle is misleading. Originally they were recorded signs that God was with Jesus. These signs became demonstrations of divine power over reality when superstitious romans completely ignorant of Jewish thought, belief, and traditional literary expressions usurped authority over scripture and came to their own dumb conclusions..ie., Jesus was an edible mangod who hosted a magical fish sandwich party in the desert, raised the dead and was executed because God loved the Romans so much....etc...

In the same way there is rational way to interpret every single miracle of Jesus that conforms to reality. One need only apply well known and long established literary techniques, metaphors, allegory, homonyms, hyperbole, etc., to discern what was deliberately hidden by Jews who believed that Jesus was the Holy One of God.

If you look and look and keep on looking you will find it.

If you don't look, you will find nothing...

The writings were nothing like the OT writers, don't know where you got that from. Not even all the NT books are written in the same manner. You are welcome to believe anything you want but it's wrong to call it rational when you are applying symbolism to whatever you want.