How Much of a Theist or Atheist are You?

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I think you're asking sealybobo whom I think started out as an agnostic, but has gone the other way. I was indoctrinated as Catholic, but rebelled around 13 years old and became agnostic-weak theist. I probably became weak-defacto theist around college age. I even studied evolution from the college I went to and believed in it so that made me weaker. Now, I'm a strong theist since starting to read the Bible, understand it better and compared what it said versus what evolution said around 2012. The history has not been about "science," but of politics and atheist vs religious beliefs.

How about you?

I was never strong theist. I was weak theist then agnostic then atheist now agnostic atheist

>>I was never strong theist. I was weak theist then agnostic then atheist now agnostic atheist<<

No one would mistake you for a strong theist which would put you in the liar category if you claimed that. Instead, I'll give you the benefit of a doubt as being a weak theist since you attended church a few times. I would guess your beliefs are based on someone or something providing the evidence of the existence of God. However, there is no evidence good enough to convince one who states that except for pain and suffering. If the believers are the ones being truthful, then this becomes another Biblical prophecy fulfilled.

If the churches I attend hooked me up to a lie detector I would have to admit I'm not buying it.

But could there be a creator? Sure. People contemplated that long before Moses claimed he spoke to him. So just like people back then agreed there might be a creator I agree now. But everything beyond that is man made. Virgin births, Mohammad, Joseph Smith, talking snakes, lazarith, Noah, parables, allegories, ramblings, Revelations, covenants, Adam, Jonah, Luke, old and new testament.

You are then a De Facto Atheist. Was this your poll answer?

I took it before so I don't remember.

But why am I not agnostic? I said there could be a creator. I just don't buy organized religions. Lots of people here don't buy any religions but they believe in God or a creator. I believe there could be but it's also possible there isn't. Since it's never appeared and we don't ever see it I don't believe if it does exists that it thinks about us or cares. That means it too is scientifically explainable. It too must have been created.



And do you think god exists beyond our little universe or is this the only universe? So you put god in a box?

I think you are agnostic. I think atheism IS agnostic, by definition.

 

[BreezeWood]

.
the Apex of Knowledge, Triumph of Good vs Evil are both supplements for freeing one's Spirit otherwise the individuals destiny is not their own and the reason for their bible ... good luck with that especially soaked in a crucifixion. or at least write a book that makes sense. all beings being the same.

 

[hobelim]

Its a good thing that you can't fake it. You don't believe because you don't understand what the stories are teaching. I don't believe that the story of the creation is a true story of the creation of the universe or solar system by God either, but thats not what the story is about anyway..I don't believe that biologically dead people came out of their graves, ever, even though I do believe that the stories about the dead coming out of their graves in the first century are absolutely true.


When the teaching and the hidden subject about rising from the dead is understood there is no problem believing, especially if you can't fake it and it happens to you.


Comprehension is a choice, something one must deliberately strive for to attain.


If you look and look and keep on looking for hidden meaning in scripture that conforms to and is confirmed by reality you will find it.


If you don't look you will surely find nothing....


"The kingdom of Heaven is like hidden treasure lying buried in a field. The man who found it, buried it again."

can you dig it?

Oh it's a story book?

What do you mean you don't and do believe dead people did come from the grave?

I do not believe that the subject of the resurrection is or ever was about the biologically dead resuming a former physical existence.

The resurrection of the dead is about entry into a new existence, a transformation from confusion to comprehension as dramatic as passing from darkness to light, blindness to sight, death to life.

Jesus being raised as an observant Jew was no different than you being raised Greek orthodox in that it was an accident of birth.

Jesus rose from the dead by leaving the whitewashed tomb of irrational religious beliefs and degrading religious practices which is exactly what happened to you when you walked out of the tomb of irrational religious beliefs and degrading religious practices...

Do you believe in your own story?

When Jesus emerged from the Jordan river after being baptized by John, "the heavens opened up to him."


You are still under the water..time to come up for some air.


Wouldn't it be a terrible shame if you escaped from the tomb only to dig your own grave?

If even 1% of me believed your religion was real but since not, I'll leave you with this. It'd be a darn shame if you came out and found Islam was the truth.

But since not even 1% of you believes that you're ok with that right?

I do not belong to any religion. I just told you that I do not believe the same things that you do not believe and for the same reasons. The only difference is that I found deeper meaning hidden in those fantastical stories like a priceless treasure.

You can't say that its not there. I have shown it to you. You can't say that you heard it all before. No one has.

What religion teaches that the drink my blood ritual is a curse spread throughout the Roman empire deliberately to "smite the nations"? What religion teaches that kosher law is not about food? What religion teaches that Jesus healing the blind was a healing of perception not sight? What Christian, Jew or Muslim even knows that the dispute between Jesus and the religious authorities was about what was the only right way to understand and comply with divine Law that leads to eternal life here and now? What religion teaches that Jesus appeared to his disciples in dreams after the crucifixion?

Who has ever said anything like any of that ever before?

You really need to pay closer attention.

I think the Lord will forgive me in fact he may even reward my intelligence. I mean our intelligence because you agree with me

You don't need to be forgiven. Not believing what the stories are not about is not a sin.

To discover what the stories are actually about, take another closer look.

Remember what Jesus said? One must humble himself like a little child to enter the kingdom of heaven..

Take his advice mr smarty pants.

Read scripture again as if you were a little child knowing the stories are like fairy tales teaching something hidden that is not necessarily directly connected to the literal meanings of the words used.

Then, if you have the intelligence, you will indeed be rewarded beyond anything that you have ever imagined in your wildest dreams....Not in some distant future and not after you die, but in the very day that you do it.

 

[sealybobo]

Oh it's a story book?

What do you mean you don't and do believe dead people did come from the grave?

I do not believe that the subject of the resurrection is or ever was about the biologically dead resuming a former physical existence.

The resurrection of the dead is about entry into a new existence, a transformation from confusion to comprehension as dramatic as passing from darkness to light, blindness to sight, death to life.

Jesus being raised as an observant Jew was no different than you being raised Greek orthodox in that it was an accident of birth.

Jesus rose from the dead by leaving the whitewashed tomb of irrational religious beliefs and degrading religious practices which is exactly what happened to you when you walked out of the tomb of irrational religious beliefs and degrading religious practices...

Do you believe in your own story?

When Jesus emerged from the Jordan river after being baptized by John, "the heavens opened up to him."


You are still under the water..time to come up for some air.


Wouldn't it be a terrible shame if you escaped from the tomb only to dig your own grave?

If even 1% of me believed your religion was real but since not, I'll leave you with this. It'd be a darn shame if you came out and found Islam was the truth.

But since not even 1% of you believes that you're ok with that right?

I do not belong to any religion. I just told you that I do not believe the same things that you do not believe and for the same reasons. The only difference is that I found deeper meaning hidden in those fantastical stories like a priceless treasure.

You can't say that its not there. I have shown it to you. You can't say that you heard it all before. No one has.

What religion teaches that the drink my blood ritual is a curse spread throughout the Roman empire deliberately to "smite the nations"? What religion teaches that kosher law is not about food? What religion teaches that Jesus healing the blind was a healing of perception not sight? What Christian, Jew or Muslim even knows that the dispute between Jesus and the religious authorities was about what was the only right way to understand and comply with divine Law that leads to eternal life here and now? What religion teaches that Jesus appeared to his disciples in dreams after the crucifixion?

Who has ever said anything like any of that ever before?

You really need to pay closer attention.

I think the Lord will forgive me in fact he may even reward my intelligence. I mean our intelligence because you agree with me

You don't need to be forgiven. Not believing what the stories are not about is not a sin.

To discover what the stories are actually about, take another closer look.

Remember what Jesus said? One must humble himself like a little child to enter the kingdom of heaven..

Take his advice mr smarty pants.

Read scripture again as if you were a little child knowing the stories are like fairy tales teaching something hidden that is not necessarily directly connected to the literal meanings of the words used.

Then, if you have the intelligence, you will indeed be rewarded beyond anything that you have ever imagined in your wildest dreams....Not in some distant future and not after you die, but in the very day that you do it.

Oh I get the messages in the stories

 

[sealybobo]

I was never strong theist. I was weak theist then agnostic then atheist now agnostic atheist

>>I was never strong theist. I was weak theist then agnostic then atheist now agnostic atheist<<

No one would mistake you for a strong theist which would put you in the liar category if you claimed that. Instead, I'll give you the benefit of a doubt as being a weak theist since you attended church a few times. I would guess your beliefs are based on someone or something providing the evidence of the existence of God. However, there is no evidence good enough to convince one who states that except for pain and suffering. If the believers are the ones being truthful, then this becomes another Biblical prophecy fulfilled.

If the churches I attend hooked me up to a lie detector I would have to admit I'm not buying it.

But could there be a creator? Sure. People contemplated that long before Moses claimed he spoke to him. So just like people back then agreed there might be a creator I agree now. But everything beyond that is man made. Virgin births, Mohammad, Joseph Smith, talking snakes, lazarith, Noah, parables, allegories, ramblings, Revelations, covenants, Adam, Jonah, Luke, old and new testament.

You are then a De Facto Atheist. Was this your poll answer?

I took it before so I don't remember.

But why am I not agnostic? I said there could be a creator. I just don't buy organized religions. Lots of people here don't buy any religions but they believe in God or a creator. I believe there could be but it's also possible there isn't. Since it's never appeared and we don't ever see it I don't believe if it does exists that it thinks about us or cares. That means it too is scientifically explainable. It too must have been created.



And do you think god exists beyond our little universe or is this the only universe? So you put god in a box?

I think you are agnostic. I think atheism IS agnostic, by definition.

I've tried explaining that to others. An atheist doesn't know there is no God just like there are no theists who know there is. Both just believe.

So then everyone's agnostic?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

>>I was never strong theist. I was weak theist then agnostic then atheist now agnostic atheist<<

No one would mistake you for a strong theist which would put you in the liar category if you claimed that. Instead, I'll give you the benefit of a doubt as being a weak theist since you attended church a few times. I would guess your beliefs are based on someone or something providing the evidence of the existence of God. However, there is no evidence good enough to convince one who states that except for pain and suffering. If the believers are the ones being truthful, then this becomes another Biblical prophecy fulfilled.

If the churches I attend hooked me up to a lie detector I would have to admit I'm not buying it.

But could there be a creator? Sure. People contemplated that long before Moses claimed he spoke to him. So just like people back then agreed there might be a creator I agree now. But everything beyond that is man made. Virgin births, Mohammad, Joseph Smith, talking snakes, lazarith, Noah, parables, allegories, ramblings, Revelations, covenants, Adam, Jonah, Luke, old and new testament.

You are then a De Facto Atheist. Was this your poll answer?

I took it before so I don't remember.

But why am I not agnostic? I said there could be a creator. I just don't buy organized religions. Lots of people here don't buy any religions but they believe in God or a creator. I believe there could be but it's also possible there isn't. Since it's never appeared and we don't ever see it I don't believe if it does exists that it thinks about us or cares. That means it too is scientifically explainable. It too must have been created.



And do you think god exists beyond our little universe or is this the only universe? So you put god in a box?

I think you are agnostic. I think atheism IS agnostic, by definition.

I've tried explaining that to others. An atheist doesn't know there is no God just like there are no theists who know there is. Both just believe.

So then everyone's agnostic?

No, those who believe there is a god are Gnostic, and those who believe there is no god are gnostic.

 

[hobelim]

I do not believe that the subject of the resurrection is or ever was about the biologically dead resuming a former physical existence.

The resurrection of the dead is about entry into a new existence, a transformation from confusion to comprehension as dramatic as passing from darkness to light, blindness to sight, death to life.

Jesus being raised as an observant Jew was no different than you being raised Greek orthodox in that it was an accident of birth.

Jesus rose from the dead by leaving the whitewashed tomb of irrational religious beliefs and degrading religious practices which is exactly what happened to you when you walked out of the tomb of irrational religious beliefs and degrading religious practices...

Do you believe in your own story?

When Jesus emerged from the Jordan river after being baptized by John, "the heavens opened up to him."


You are still under the water..time to come up for some air.


Wouldn't it be a terrible shame if you escaped from the tomb only to dig your own grave?

If even 1% of me believed your religion was real but since not, I'll leave you with this. It'd be a darn shame if you came out and found Islam was the truth.

But since not even 1% of you believes that you're ok with that right?

I do not belong to any religion. I just told you that I do not believe the same things that you do not believe and for the same reasons. The only difference is that I found deeper meaning hidden in those fantastical stories like a priceless treasure.

You can't say that its not there. I have shown it to you. You can't say that you heard it all before. No one has.

What religion teaches that the drink my blood ritual is a curse spread throughout the Roman empire deliberately to "smite the nations"? What religion teaches that kosher law is not about food? What religion teaches that Jesus healing the blind was a healing of perception not sight? What Christian, Jew or Muslim even knows that the dispute between Jesus and the religious authorities was about what was the only right way to understand and comply with divine Law that leads to eternal life here and now? What religion teaches that Jesus appeared to his disciples in dreams after the crucifixion?

Who has ever said anything like any of that ever before?

You really need to pay closer attention.

I think the Lord will forgive me in fact he may even reward my intelligence. I mean our intelligence because you agree with me

You don't need to be forgiven. Not believing what the stories are not about is not a sin.

To discover what the stories are actually about, take another closer look.

Remember what Jesus said? One must humble himself like a little child to enter the kingdom of heaven..

Take his advice mr smarty pants.

Read scripture again as if you were a little child knowing the stories are like fairy tales teaching something hidden that is not necessarily directly connected to the literal meanings of the words used.

Then, if you have the intelligence, you will indeed be rewarded beyond anything that you have ever imagined in your wildest dreams....Not in some distant future and not after you die, but in the very day that you do it.

Oh I get the messages in the stories

If that was true you wouldn't be trashing it all as superstitious nonsense.

I will tell you a little secret.

Some things, like understanding a foreign language, just can't be faked.

 

[MarkDuffy]

>>I was never strong theist. I was weak theist then agnostic then atheist now agnostic atheist<<

No one would mistake you for a strong theist which would put you in the liar category if you claimed that. Instead, I'll give you the benefit of a doubt as being a weak theist since you attended church a few times. I would guess your beliefs are based on someone or something providing the evidence of the existence of God. However, there is no evidence good enough to convince one who states that except for pain and suffering. If the believers are the ones being truthful, then this becomes another Biblical prophecy fulfilled.

If the churches I attend hooked me up to a lie detector I would have to admit I'm not buying it.

But could there be a creator? Sure. People contemplated that long before Moses claimed he spoke to him. So just like people back then agreed there might be a creator I agree now. But everything beyond that is man made. Virgin births, Mohammad, Joseph Smith, talking snakes, lazarith, Noah, parables, allegories, ramblings, Revelations, covenants, Adam, Jonah, Luke, old and new testament.

You are then a De Facto Atheist. Was this your poll answer?

I took it before so I don't remember.

But why am I not agnostic? I said there could be a creator. I just don't buy organized religions. Lots of people here don't buy any religions but they believe in God or a creator. I believe there could be but it's also possible there isn't. Since it's never appeared and we don't ever see it I don't believe if it does exists that it thinks about us or cares. That means it too is scientifically explainable. It too must have been created.



And do you think god exists beyond our little universe or is this the only universe? So you put god in a box?

I think you are agnostic. I think atheism IS agnostic, by definition.

I've tried explaining that to others. An atheist doesn't know there is no God just like there are no theists who know there is. Both just believe.

So then everyone's agnostic?

Wow man, that's deep

 

[MarkDuffy]

If even 1% of me believed your religion was real but since not, I'll leave you with this. It'd be a darn shame if you came out and found Islam was the truth.

But since not even 1% of you believes that you're ok with that right?

I do not belong to any religion. I just told you that I do not believe the same things that you do not believe and for the same reasons. The only difference is that I found deeper meaning hidden in those fantastical stories like a priceless treasure.

You can't say that its not there. I have shown it to you. You can't say that you heard it all before. No one has.

What religion teaches that the drink my blood ritual is a curse spread throughout the Roman empire deliberately to "smite the nations"? What religion teaches that kosher law is not about food? What religion teaches that Jesus healing the blind was a healing of perception not sight? What Christian, Jew or Muslim even knows that the dispute between Jesus and the religious authorities was about what was the only right way to understand and comply with divine Law that leads to eternal life here and now? What religion teaches that Jesus appeared to his disciples in dreams after the crucifixion?

Who has ever said anything like any of that ever before?

You really need to pay closer attention.

I think the Lord will forgive me in fact he may even reward my intelligence. I mean our intelligence because you agree with me

You don't need to be forgiven. Not believing what the stories are not about is not a sin.

To discover what the stories are actually about, take another closer look.

Remember what Jesus said? One must humble himself like a little child to enter the kingdom of heaven..

Take his advice mr smarty pants.

Read scripture again as if you were a little child knowing the stories are like fairy tales teaching something hidden that is not necessarily directly connected to the literal meanings of the words used.

Then, if you have the intelligence, you will indeed be rewarded beyond anything that you have ever imagined in your wildest dreams....Not in some distant future and not after you die, but in the very day that you do it.

Oh I get the messages in the stories

If that was true you wouldn't be trashing it all as superstitious nonsense.

I will tell you a little secret.

Some things, like understanding a foreign language, just can't be faked.

You mean like televangelists?

 

[sealybobo]

If even 1% of me believed your religion was real but since not, I'll leave you with this. It'd be a darn shame if you came out and found Islam was the truth.

But since not even 1% of you believes that you're ok with that right?

I do not belong to any religion. I just told you that I do not believe the same things that you do not believe and for the same reasons. The only difference is that I found deeper meaning hidden in those fantastical stories like a priceless treasure.

You can't say that its not there. I have shown it to you. You can't say that you heard it all before. No one has.

What religion teaches that the drink my blood ritual is a curse spread throughout the Roman empire deliberately to "smite the nations"? What religion teaches that kosher law is not about food? What religion teaches that Jesus healing the blind was a healing of perception not sight? What Christian, Jew or Muslim even knows that the dispute between Jesus and the religious authorities was about what was the only right way to understand and comply with divine Law that leads to eternal life here and now? What religion teaches that Jesus appeared to his disciples in dreams after the crucifixion?

Who has ever said anything like any of that ever before?

You really need to pay closer attention.

I think the Lord will forgive me in fact he may even reward my intelligence. I mean our intelligence because you agree with me

You don't need to be forgiven. Not believing what the stories are not about is not a sin.

To discover what the stories are actually about, take another closer look.

Remember what Jesus said? One must humble himself like a little child to enter the kingdom of heaven..

Take his advice mr smarty pants.

Read scripture again as if you were a little child knowing the stories are like fairy tales teaching something hidden that is not necessarily directly connected to the literal meanings of the words used.

Then, if you have the intelligence, you will indeed be rewarded beyond anything that you have ever imagined in your wildest dreams....Not in some distant future and not after you die, but in the very day that you do it.

Oh I get the messages in the stories

If that was true you wouldn't be trashing it all as superstitious nonsense.

I will tell you a little secret.

Some things, like understanding a foreign language, just can't be faked.

The more I look into it the more confident I am my conclusions are right.

But I do admit that complex life is probably very rare. And I can see that intelligent life is even more rare. To have the moon, the way we are tilted just right, just the right distance from the sun, no dinosaurs, the entire story of the universe and how it led to humans. Truly amazing. I don't mind giving all that thanks. Whatever did it. Thanks.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I do not belong to any religion. I just told you that I do not believe the same things that you do not believe and for the same reasons. The only difference is that I found deeper meaning hidden in those fantastical stories like a priceless treasure.

You can't say that its not there. I have shown it to you. You can't say that you heard it all before. No one has.

What religion teaches that the drink my blood ritual is a curse spread throughout the Roman empire deliberately to "smite the nations"? What religion teaches that kosher law is not about food? What religion teaches that Jesus healing the blind was a healing of perception not sight? What Christian, Jew or Muslim even knows that the dispute between Jesus and the religious authorities was about what was the only right way to understand and comply with divine Law that leads to eternal life here and now? What religion teaches that Jesus appeared to his disciples in dreams after the crucifixion?

Who has ever said anything like any of that ever before?

You really need to pay closer attention.

I think the Lord will forgive me in fact he may even reward my intelligence. I mean our intelligence because you agree with me

You don't need to be forgiven. Not believing what the stories are not about is not a sin.

To discover what the stories are actually about, take another closer look.

Remember what Jesus said? One must humble himself like a little child to enter the kingdom of heaven..

Take his advice mr smarty pants.

Read scripture again as if you were a little child knowing the stories are like fairy tales teaching something hidden that is not necessarily directly connected to the literal meanings of the words used.

Then, if you have the intelligence, you will indeed be rewarded beyond anything that you have ever imagined in your wildest dreams....Not in some distant future and not after you die, but in the very day that you do it.

Oh I get the messages in the stories

If that was true you wouldn't be trashing it all as superstitious nonsense.

I will tell you a little secret.

Some things, like understanding a foreign language, just can't be faked.

The more I look into it the more confident I am my conclusions are right.

But I do admit that complex life is probably very rare. And I can see that intelligent life is even more rare. To have the moon, the way we are tilted just right, just the right distance from the sun, no dinosaurs, the entire story of the universe and how it led to humans. Truly amazing. I don't mind giving all that thanks. Whatever did it. Thanks.

But, something being "rare" in our huge universe can still mean it has happened billions of times. Also, don't fall into the trap of the math of Hoyle's fallacy, by which the probability of ANY event can be reduced to approach zero. To further that point, while conditions exactly like we experience may be required to produce life exactly as it exists here on Earth, there is no reason to believe life cannot form and evolve under very different conditions. When scientists speak of "the requirement of liquid water for life", they really mean, "life as we understand it". This is not an error, but rather a way to use resources more efficiently. If we just look for any life, anywhere, we probably wouldn't recognize it if we found it. It makes more sense to devote our resources to looking for life as we already understand it.

 

[sealybobo]

It may be that we are the first complex life too. Maybe it takes 13 billion years for the Lord's seed to sprout. More to come.

But if you never learned science and just read Genesis you would think the world was created in 7 days. Literally because they didn't know the science back then.

 

[sealybobo]

I think the Lord will forgive me in fact he may even reward my intelligence. I mean our intelligence because you agree with me

You don't need to be forgiven. Not believing what the stories are not about is not a sin.

To discover what the stories are actually about, take another closer look.

Remember what Jesus said? One must humble himself like a little child to enter the kingdom of heaven..

Take his advice mr smarty pants.

Read scripture again as if you were a little child knowing the stories are like fairy tales teaching something hidden that is not necessarily directly connected to the literal meanings of the words used.

Then, if you have the intelligence, you will indeed be rewarded beyond anything that you have ever imagined in your wildest dreams....Not in some distant future and not after you die, but in the very day that you do it.

Oh I get the messages in the stories

If that was true you wouldn't be trashing it all as superstitious nonsense.

I will tell you a little secret.

Some things, like understanding a foreign language, just can't be faked.

The more I look into it the more confident I am my conclusions are right.

But I do admit that complex life is probably very rare. And I can see that intelligent life is even more rare. To have the moon, the way we are tilted just right, just the right distance from the sun, no dinosaurs, the entire story of the universe and how it led to humans. Truly amazing. I don't mind giving all that thanks. Whatever did it. Thanks.

But, something being "rare" in our huge universe can still mean it has happened billions of times. Also, don't fall into the trap of the math of Hoyle's fallacy, by which the probability of ANY event can be reduced to approach zero. To further that point, while conditions exactly like we experience may be required to produce life exactly as it exists here on Earth, there is no reason to believe life cannot form and evolve under very different conditions. When scientists speak of "the requirement of liquid water for life", they really mean, "life as we understand it". This is not an error, but rather a way to use resources more efficiently. If we just look for any life, anywhere, we probably wouldn't recognize it if we found it. It makes more sense to devote our resources to looking for life as we already understand it.

Well we know that life in our solar system, at least complex, doesn't happen on any of the other planets that aren't in the habitable zone.

And for another planet to have a moon that protects them like ours does us.

I don't disagree I believe other complex life exists. But now what about intelligent life? So many things could have happened and humans wouldn't be here. And we (Trump and Kim Jung) could kill ourselves tomorrow then if another species discovered earth they'd see no intelligent life. Maybe dolphins.

I think other intelligent life exists but how rare.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

You don't need to be forgiven. Not believing what the stories are not about is not a sin.

To discover what the stories are actually about, take another closer look.

Remember what Jesus said? One must humble himself like a little child to enter the kingdom of heaven..

Take his advice mr smarty pants.

Read scripture again as if you were a little child knowing the stories are like fairy tales teaching something hidden that is not necessarily directly connected to the literal meanings of the words used.

Then, if you have the intelligence, you will indeed be rewarded beyond anything that you have ever imagined in your wildest dreams....Not in some distant future and not after you die, but in the very day that you do it.

Oh I get the messages in the stories

If that was true you wouldn't be trashing it all as superstitious nonsense.

I will tell you a little secret.

Some things, like understanding a foreign language, just can't be faked.

The more I look into it the more confident I am my conclusions are right.

But I do admit that complex life is probably very rare. And I can see that intelligent life is even more rare. To have the moon, the way we are tilted just right, just the right distance from the sun, no dinosaurs, the entire story of the universe and how it led to humans. Truly amazing. I don't mind giving all that thanks. Whatever did it. Thanks.

But, something being "rare" in our huge universe can still mean it has happened billions of times. Also, don't fall into the trap of the math of Hoyle's fallacy, by which the probability of ANY event can be reduced to approach zero. To further that point, while conditions exactly like we experience may be required to produce life exactly as it exists here on Earth, there is no reason to believe life cannot form and evolve under very different conditions. When scientists speak of "the requirement of liquid water for life", they really mean, "life as we understand it". This is not an error, but rather a way to use resources more efficiently. If we just look for any life, anywhere, we probably wouldn't recognize it if we found it. It makes more sense to devote our resources to looking for life as we already understand it.

Well we know that life in our solar system, at least complex, doesn't happen on any of the other planets that aren't in the habitable zone.

And for another planet to have a moon that protects them like ours does us.

I don't disagree I believe other complex life exists. But now what about intelligent life? So many things could have happened and humans wouldn't be here. And we (Trump and Kim Jung) could kill ourselves tomorrow then if another species discovered earth they'd see no intelligent life. Maybe dolphins.

I think other intelligent life exists but how rare.

But again, mention the exact conditions required for us. Different conditions could simply arise to different species or even fundamental building blocks of life. Wehn we search for planets in the habitable zone or for planets with water, we are intentionally and arbitrarily confining our search to "life as we know it", which is a smart allocation of resources. This doesn't come with a tcit implication that we reject othertypes of life as possible.

And life here evolved under the conditions which existed. The life we see here is exactly what we should have expected, given those conditions.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Actually I think the Bible is full of claims that Jesus was sent specifically to be crucified for our original sin (That WE did not commit!)

So my question becomes, why was Judas a bad guy for doing what he was told by God to do?

Now here's the weird part. Since we have been saved from original sin by the cross, why do women still suffer pain during childbirth?

Sounds like a double-cross to me

>>
Actually I think the Bible is full of claims that Jesus was sent specifically to be crucified for our original sin (That WE did not commit!)

So my question becomes, why was Judas a bad guy for doing what he was told by God to do?

Now here's the weird part. Since we have been saved from original sin by the cross, why do women still suffer pain during childbirth?

Sounds like a double-cross to me<<

Claims? As in science? You are wrong. The Bible isn't a science book, but science does back up the Bible.

Why do atheists and their scientists go so wrong?

>>why do women still suffer pain during childbirth?

Sounds like a double-cross to me<<

Huh? You're all over the place.

So if Jesus was sent to die why did my priest tell the bullshit story about how God sent his son to preach the word of love and we killed him? As if god was hoping we would do the right thing. This story is all over the place.

It's a book of parables and allegories. Based on a lie. Moses and Jesus

So if Jesus was sent to die why did my priest tell the bullshit story about how God sent his son to preach the word of love and we killed him? As if god was hoping we would do the right thing. This story is all over the place.

It's a book of parables and allegories. Based on a lie. Moses and Jesus

You do not have the proper understanding of the Bible. I mentioned Ben-Hur (1959). Maybe you should read up on the author and how his writing the story, albeit fictional account of a true story, influenced him. One start is the link I posted. As for Moses, there is the The Ten Commandments movie. I'm not as familiar with his story.

Why are these "parables and allegories" a lie? How do you know it's a lie? There are many who claim this, and their claims are investigated and found to be disproven or lack merit. Today, we have those who write scientific arguments and the like, and their claims are also rebutted.

Sadly, I see lack of evidence on the atheist's claims. They to seem to make things up or base it on wrong science and think they are right. I think if one investigates these people who make the counter claims, one will find that they are wrong. One of the things about the Bible is that it cannot change, so if any of these counter claims against hold merit, then the stories would have been destroyed long ago as false instead of individual claims of disbelief.

The bottom line is one has to answer the questions whether this life is all there is and all there will be for themselves? Also, whether one will be judged for their actions in the current life. If someone is lucky enough to avoid punishment for their sins such as murder, thievery or false witnesses (lies) against their fellow human and get away with it, then there is no justice in this life.

That's right. No justice. When the wolves kill the coyote for being in their territory there is no justice for the coyote and no hell for the wolves.

>>That's right. No justice. When the wolves kill the coyote for being in their territory there is no justice for the coyote and no hell for the wolves.<<

I don't think it happens like that. What usually happens is that we, i.e. the majority, are punished for the sins of the few. Isn't this true everywhere? Isn't this the big deal with original sin? It may be different in one area to another, but the laws are usually written this way by humans. This is evidence that God thinks like humans and his laws follow the ones we make. Our justice is his justice, so there is evidence for some kind of final judgment.

If it helps to provide any clarification or perspective, I was taught that "original sin" doesn't refer to a specific act, by us or by Adam and Eve. It refers to the basic sinful nature of humanity, the predisposition to commit sins. THAT is why we end up bearing the brunt of original sin.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

>>
Actually I think the Bible is full of claims that Jesus was sent specifically to be crucified for our original sin (That WE did not commit!)

So my question becomes, why was Judas a bad guy for doing what he was told by God to do?

Now here's the weird part. Since we have been saved from original sin by the cross, why do women still suffer pain during childbirth?

Sounds like a double-cross to me<<

Claims? As in science? You are wrong. The Bible isn't a science book, but science does back up the Bible.

Why do atheists and their scientists go so wrong?

>>why do women still suffer pain during childbirth?

Sounds like a double-cross to me<<

Huh? You're all over the place.

So if Jesus was sent to die why did my priest tell the bullshit story about how God sent his son to preach the word of love and we killed him? As if god was hoping we would do the right thing. This story is all over the place.

It's a book of parables and allegories. Based on a lie. Moses and Jesus

So if Jesus was sent to die why did my priest tell the bullshit story about how God sent his son to preach the word of love and we killed him? As if god was hoping we would do the right thing. This story is all over the place.

It's a book of parables and allegories. Based on a lie. Moses and Jesus

You do not have the proper understanding of the Bible. I mentioned Ben-Hur (1959). Maybe you should read up on the author and how his writing the story, albeit fictional account of a true story, influenced him. One start is the link I posted. As for Moses, there is the The Ten Commandments movie. I'm not as familiar with his story.

Why are these "parables and allegories" a lie? How do you know it's a lie? There are many who claim this, and their claims are investigated and found to be disproven or lack merit. Today, we have those who write scientific arguments and the like, and their claims are also rebutted.

Sadly, I see lack of evidence on the atheist's claims. They to seem to make things up or base it on wrong science and think they are right. I think if one investigates these people who make the counter claims, one will find that they are wrong. One of the things about the Bible is that it cannot change, so if any of these counter claims against hold merit, then the stories would have been destroyed long ago as false instead of individual claims of disbelief.

The bottom line is one has to answer the questions whether this life is all there is and all there will be for themselves? Also, whether one will be judged for their actions in the current life. If someone is lucky enough to avoid punishment for their sins such as murder, thievery or false witnesses (lies) against their fellow human and get away with it, then there is no justice in this life.

That's right. No justice. When the wolves kill the coyote for being in their territory there is no justice for the coyote and no hell for the wolves.

>>That's right. No justice. When the wolves kill the coyote for being in their territory there is no justice for the coyote and no hell for the wolves.<<

I don't think it happens like that. What usually happens is that we, i.e. the majority, are punished for the sins of the few. Isn't this true everywhere? Isn't this the big deal with original sin? It may be different in one area to another, but the laws are usually written this way by humans. This is evidence that God thinks like humans and his laws follow the ones we make. Our justice is his justice, so there is evidence for some kind of final judgment.

If it helps to provide any clarification or perspective, I was taught that "original sin" doesn't refer to a specific act, by us or by Adam and Eve. It refers to the basic sinful nature of humanity, the predisposition to commit sins. THAT is why we end up bearing the brunt of original sin.

What a despicable, evil idea that is.

 

[Cecilie1200]

So if Jesus was sent to die why did my priest tell the bullshit story about how God sent his son to preach the word of love and we killed him? As if god was hoping we would do the right thing. This story is all over the place.

It's a book of parables and allegories. Based on a lie. Moses and Jesus

So if Jesus was sent to die why did my priest tell the bullshit story about how God sent his son to preach the word of love and we killed him? As if god was hoping we would do the right thing. This story is all over the place.

It's a book of parables and allegories. Based on a lie. Moses and Jesus

You do not have the proper understanding of the Bible. I mentioned Ben-Hur (1959). Maybe you should read up on the author and how his writing the story, albeit fictional account of a true story, influenced him. One start is the link I posted. As for Moses, there is the The Ten Commandments movie. I'm not as familiar with his story.

Why are these "parables and allegories" a lie? How do you know it's a lie? There are many who claim this, and their claims are investigated and found to be disproven or lack merit. Today, we have those who write scientific arguments and the like, and their claims are also rebutted.

Sadly, I see lack of evidence on the atheist's claims. They to seem to make things up or base it on wrong science and think they are right. I think if one investigates these people who make the counter claims, one will find that they are wrong. One of the things about the Bible is that it cannot change, so if any of these counter claims against hold merit, then the stories would have been destroyed long ago as false instead of individual claims of disbelief.

The bottom line is one has to answer the questions whether this life is all there is and all there will be for themselves? Also, whether one will be judged for their actions in the current life. If someone is lucky enough to avoid punishment for their sins such as murder, thievery or false witnesses (lies) against their fellow human and get away with it, then there is no justice in this life.

That's right. No justice. When the wolves kill the coyote for being in their territory there is no justice for the coyote and no hell for the wolves.

>>That's right. No justice. When the wolves kill the coyote for being in their territory there is no justice for the coyote and no hell for the wolves.<<

I don't think it happens like that. What usually happens is that we, i.e. the majority, are punished for the sins of the few. Isn't this true everywhere? Isn't this the big deal with original sin? It may be different in one area to another, but the laws are usually written this way by humans. This is evidence that God thinks like humans and his laws follow the ones we make. Our justice is his justice, so there is evidence for some kind of final judgment.

If it helps to provide any clarification or perspective, I was taught that "original sin" doesn't refer to a specific act, by us or by Adam and Eve. It refers to the basic sinful nature of humanity, the predisposition to commit sins. THAT is why we end up bearing the brunt of original sin.

What a despicable, evil idea that is.

Leaving aside the ironic humor of you hubristically presuming to label the word of God as "evil", why do you find that despicable and evil?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

So if Jesus was sent to die why did my priest tell the bullshit story about how God sent his son to preach the word of love and we killed him? As if god was hoping we would do the right thing. This story is all over the place.

It's a book of parables and allegories. Based on a lie. Moses and Jesus

You do not have the proper understanding of the Bible. I mentioned Ben-Hur (1959). Maybe you should read up on the author and how his writing the story, albeit fictional account of a true story, influenced him. One start is the link I posted. As for Moses, there is the The Ten Commandments movie. I'm not as familiar with his story.

Why are these "parables and allegories" a lie? How do you know it's a lie? There are many who claim this, and their claims are investigated and found to be disproven or lack merit. Today, we have those who write scientific arguments and the like, and their claims are also rebutted.

Sadly, I see lack of evidence on the atheist's claims. They to seem to make things up or base it on wrong science and think they are right. I think if one investigates these people who make the counter claims, one will find that they are wrong. One of the things about the Bible is that it cannot change, so if any of these counter claims against hold merit, then the stories would have been destroyed long ago as false instead of individual claims of disbelief.

The bottom line is one has to answer the questions whether this life is all there is and all there will be for themselves? Also, whether one will be judged for their actions in the current life. If someone is lucky enough to avoid punishment for their sins such as murder, thievery or false witnesses (lies) against their fellow human and get away with it, then there is no justice in this life.

That's right. No justice. When the wolves kill the coyote for being in their territory there is no justice for the coyote and no hell for the wolves.

>>That's right. No justice. When the wolves kill the coyote for being in their territory there is no justice for the coyote and no hell for the wolves.<<

I don't think it happens like that. What usually happens is that we, i.e. the majority, are punished for the sins of the few. Isn't this true everywhere? Isn't this the big deal with original sin? It may be different in one area to another, but the laws are usually written this way by humans. This is evidence that God thinks like humans and his laws follow the ones we make. Our justice is his justice, so there is evidence for some kind of final judgment.

If it helps to provide any clarification or perspective, I was taught that "original sin" doesn't refer to a specific act, by us or by Adam and Eve. It refers to the basic sinful nature of humanity, the predisposition to commit sins. THAT is why we end up bearing the brunt of original sin.

What a despicable, evil idea that is.

Leaving aside the ironic humor of you hubristically presuming to label the word of God as "evil", why do you find that despicable and evil?

You are wise to leave that aside, as your authoritative declaration that it is "the word of god" represents your OWN hubris. Don't get cute with me without getting your ducks in a row, first.

Secondly, it presupposes that we do and should carry the burden of past transgressions, which is ridiculous and evil. It also assumes "we are all sinners", which is an evil starting point, given that -- no doubt -- what constitutes a "sin" and what does not are both subjective to your authoritative hubris, or to that of whatever charismatic charlatan is the next to come down the pipe.

 

[Cecilie1200]

That's right. No justice. When the wolves kill the coyote for being in their territory there is no justice for the coyote and no hell for the wolves.

>>That's right. No justice. When the wolves kill the coyote for being in their territory there is no justice for the coyote and no hell for the wolves.<<

I don't think it happens like that. What usually happens is that we, i.e. the majority, are punished for the sins of the few. Isn't this true everywhere? Isn't this the big deal with original sin? It may be different in one area to another, but the laws are usually written this way by humans. This is evidence that God thinks like humans and his laws follow the ones we make. Our justice is his justice, so there is evidence for some kind of final judgment.

If it helps to provide any clarification or perspective, I was taught that "original sin" doesn't refer to a specific act, by us or by Adam and Eve. It refers to the basic sinful nature of humanity, the predisposition to commit sins. THAT is why we end up bearing the brunt of original sin.

What a despicable, evil idea that is.

Leaving aside the ironic humor of you hubristically presuming to label the word of God as "evil", why do you find that despicable and evil?

You are wise to leave that aside, as your authoritative declaration that it is "the word of god" represents your OWN hubris. Don't get cute with me without getting your ducks in a row, first.

Secondly, it presupposes that we do and should carry the burden of past transgressions, which is ridiculous and evil. It also assumes "we are all sinners", which is an evil starting point, given that -- no doubt -- what constitutes a "sin" and what does not are both subjective to your authoritative hubris, or to that of whatever charismatic charlatan is the next to come down the pipe.

Your valuation of my wisdom = I'm sorry, did you say something?

Moving right along . . . It's truly amazing how you came to a conclusion regarding my point that not only bears no resemblance to what I said, but actually is diametrically opposed to what I said. I can only assume that you read the first half of my first sentence, and then rushed right on to saying what you wanted to say about the subject, irregardless of any pretense at conversation.

I'd suggest you thank God for straw men, since you're hopeless against live opponents, but I'm sure that such a suggestion would outrage you.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

>>That's right. No justice. When the wolves kill the coyote for being in their territory there is no justice for the coyote and no hell for the wolves.<<

I don't think it happens like that. What usually happens is that we, i.e. the majority, are punished for the sins of the few. Isn't this true everywhere? Isn't this the big deal with original sin? It may be different in one area to another, but the laws are usually written this way by humans. This is evidence that God thinks like humans and his laws follow the ones we make. Our justice is his justice, so there is evidence for some kind of final judgment.

If it helps to provide any clarification or perspective, I was taught that "original sin" doesn't refer to a specific act, by us or by Adam and Eve. It refers to the basic sinful nature of humanity, the predisposition to commit sins. THAT is why we end up bearing the brunt of original sin.

What a despicable, evil idea that is.

Leaving aside the ironic humor of you hubristically presuming to label the word of God as "evil", why do you find that despicable and evil?

You are wise to leave that aside, as your authoritative declaration that it is "the word of god" represents your OWN hubris. Don't get cute with me without getting your ducks in a row, first.

Secondly, it presupposes that we do and should carry the burden of past transgressions, which is ridiculous and evil. It also assumes "we are all sinners", which is an evil starting point, given that -- no doubt -- what constitutes a "sin" and what does not are both subjective to your authoritative hubris, or to that of whatever charismatic charlatan is the next to come down the pipe.

Your valuation of my wisdom = I'm sorry, did you say something?

Moving right along . . . It's truly amazing how you came to a conclusion regarding my point that not only bears no resemblance to what I said, but actually is diametrically opposed to what I said. I can only assume that you read the first half of my first sentence, and then rushed right on to saying what you wanted to say about the subject, irregardless of any pretense at conversation.

I'd suggest you thank God for straw men, since you're hopeless against live opponents, but I'm sure that such a suggestion would outrage you.

I commented ion the idea of original sin, and on the face value of your comments on what it means. I stand by my comments. The idea is idiotic, it's evil, and only those who value dogma dictated to them over reason would buy such a stupid idea. If you take personal offense at my criticism of a terrible idea, then your next step should be to examine why you have internalized this idea. Here's a hint: it may be because the only support of it you could ever present is, "Because I say so".

My "hubris" at calling "god's word", evil...please...
The only hubris present in this discussion is in the shaman who thinks he can declare something to be "God's word".