How To Achieve Single Payer Health Care

[LoneLaugher]

Nope. Not a fact. Rates went up at a slower rate than before the ACA. That’s the fact.

Um. See post 69.

Wasn’t taking to you.

 

[Doc1]

Nope. Not a fact. Rates went up at a slower rate than before the ACA. That’s the fact.

Um. See post 69.

Wasn’t taking to you.

g's ego cannot handle not being the dead center of every conversation. The ACA was DEIGNED to usher in Single Payer.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Nope. Not a fact. Rates went up at a slower rate than before the ACA. That’s the fact.

Um. See post 69.

Wasn’t taking to you.

g's ego cannot handle not being the dead center of every conversation. The ACA was DEIGNED to usher in Single Payer.

No. He was just telling me that he made the point earlier.

And your claim is bull. The ACA is a compromise and was conceived of by conservatives.

Obama was trying to work WITH his opposition. You told him to fuck off.

 

[MisterBeale]

I wish the Republicans would offer something. I'm more in the governmental single payer camp but what you posted looks like it could be viable and at the very least we could have an actual debate about ideas rather than just shitting on the other guy, like the post above mine.

Perhaps if you tried actually LOOKING to see what the GOP is offering, rather than just taking the media's word that there isn't anything, you might be a bit more informed and the debate could take place.

I have been on this forum since 2011. All through the Obama years right up to the present day, I have asked the following question countless times, "Repeal ObamaCare...AND THEN WHAT!?!?!"

Not once has anyone ever been able to present a GOP replacement. Not once.

Boy, did it piss them off when I asked that question, though!


The GOP "repeal and replace" is a massive hoax.

While I agree with that statement, Obamacare was a massive hoax as well. I'm not sure UHC will come, I think it is serving exactly the folks it was meant to serve.

The system was working better than it is now, and was working better than it ever will after a repeal. (As far as working for the people, not for the interests it is really intended to serve. As it is constructed now? It is serving the TRUE stake holders perfectly well.) Don't look for it to change.

The whole reason that they went in to do a reform was for corporate competition. Healthcare was a massive liability for global corporations domiciled here in the US.

The big banks, tech firms, and big three all wanted to off load their costs to make them more competitive with their European and Asian competitors who have their health care costs picked up by the government.

All of these interests converged with big pharma and the health insurance companies to lobby the pols in DC to make Americans shoulder more of the costs so American companies could be more competitive.

Obamacare had nothing to do with covering more people to make healthcare more affordable, the elites number one goal was to make American business and industry more competitive and Wall Street more profitable off the back of middle class tax payers. Folks are fooling themselves if they think the government actually cares about the common folks or gives a shit about the little people. It works for huge financial interests. If it's not good for the economy, it won't get done.

And all these idiots bought it, and are still buying the lies. . . .

 

[Doc1]

Nope. Not a fact. Rates went up at a slower rate than before the ACA. That’s the fact.

Um. See post 69.

Wasn’t taking to you.

g's ego cannot handle not being the dead center of every conversation. The ACA was DEIGNED to usher in Single Payer.

No. He was just telling me that he made the point earlier.

And your claim is bull. The ACA is a compromise and was conceived of by conservatives.

Obama was trying to work WITH his opposition. You told him to fuck off.

I might tell you to fuck off, but I never did Obama. You're an idiot who has ZERO knowledge of the ACA. Teel me puke (I am not a pub), why didn't ONE Pub vote for it?

 

[tycho1572]

Have you considered taking your ideas to Washington, g5000?
Unlike obama, President Trump listens to people.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Nope. Not a fact. Rates went up at a slower rate than before the ACA. That’s the fact.

Um. See post 69.

Wasn’t taking to you.

g's ego cannot handle not being the dead center of every conversation. The ACA was DEIGNED to usher in Single Payer.

No. He was just telling me that he made the point earlier.

And your claim is bull. The ACA is a compromise and was conceived of by conservatives.

Obama was trying to work WITH his opposition. You told him to fuck off.

I might tell you to fuck off, but I never did Obama. You're an idiot who has ZERO knowledge of the ACA. Teel me puke (I am not a pub), why didn't ONE Pub vote for it?

Partisanship. Dummy.

 

[Doc1]

Of course INTELLIGENT people believe that you can make Insurance Companies cover EVERYTHING, control what they charge and think the system can be sustained. You Lefty's are idiots.

 

[BluesLegend]

I don't want some lame ass government care like Canada has or Obama deciding if I'm too old for a life saving procedure he can kiss my ass.

 

[Defiant1]

Amazing, but when you take the "profit motive" out of the private sector and give it to the public sector, it ends up COSTING MORE AND MORE AND MORE.


Government leftists are not altruists. They are KLEPTOCRATS who STEAL and LIE and HATE and DISCRIMINATE.

Nope. Sorry. Medicare costs less. Fact. Eat shit.

Costs less than WHAT, exactly? How are you measuring it? And oh, how's the quality comparison? You got that at your fingertips, too?

You keep moving the goalposts while not providing the GOP replacement for ObamaCare.

Interesting.

Nothing was wrong before ObamaCare.

And re:your initial post, there isn't a single employer who would hold a gun to your head and force you to take the company insurance.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I agree. If you want to not buy health insurance, you should have the right to be that stupid.

But we are long past those days. Long past. The Republicans have completely abdicated and left you out to dry.

Can you choose not to buy car insurance?

Many states have an auto insurance mandate. However, you can call any auto insurance company in America. And you aren't forced to buy whatever insurance your employer offers you. And you don't lose it when you lose or change your job.

But...you must have it. And it must meet certain standards.

Yes. But only because you might be hit by someone else, and if they don't have insurance you're fucked through no fault of your own. This just happened to my wife, in fact. She was hit by an uninsured driver.

The auto insurance mandate has a different and logical reason than the health insurance mandate.

We won’t agree on this. I’ve seen it work in Japan. Healthy people ( even retards who say they don’t want health care ) is preferable. It’s part of the “pursuit of happiness” thing.

All people get care and it doesn’t bankrupt anyone. Period.

So live there. In case you didn't notice, this isn't Japan, and we aren't Japanese, and if we wanted a nation just like theirs, we'd move there.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Please don't get ahead of me and think you know where I am going and what I desire.

So I guess I should state up front what I desire.

I believe you should be buying your health insurance the same way you buy your auto, home, and life insurance. You should be able to pick up the phone and call any insurance company in the country and haggle for what you want. If you don't like what they are offering, you can hang up and call another company.

This would provide you with the maximum freedom and, more importantly, the maximum bargaining leverage.

Instead, you are hostage to whatever your employer offers you, if you are lucky enough to have an employer who offers health insurance.

In turn, your employer is hostage to whatever insurance companies are allowed to sell them insurance in their geographical area.

In turn, the insurance companies are hostage to whatever health care providers are allowed to operate in their geographical region.

The whole system is a mess, thanks to government interference in the market.

The government is the biggest player in the health insurance market, and gets to write the rules for its private sector competitors!

How's that been working for ya?

If you were able to buy your health insurance the same way you buy auto, home, and life insurance, you would get long time customer discounts, and bundle discounts, and all the other discounts you enjoy from those other forms of insurance.

As it is now, every time you change your job you start all over from scratch.

Bogus.

But...the Republican Party has demonstrated they have absolutely no intention of ever putting a plan on the table which will provide you maximum freedom, maximum leverage, and lower costs.

The Republican Party has totally abdicated their role in solving our health care problems. To distract you from this fact, they attack the other guys' plans. They cast blame rather than do the hard work. They are critics rather than problem solvers. Whiners rather than helpers.

So what good are they?

Oh, by the way. When Republicans talk about buying health insurance "across state lines", they are being very misleading. They are not talking about being able to buy health insurance from any company in the country.

Thought you should know that.


The road to serfdom, next post.

Ok, as long as the purchase of any type of insurance/single payer is 100% voluntary, no one deserves to forced into any type of socialist entitlement program.
Healthcare is not an right, insurance is not healthcare...

I think it is incredibly foolish not to insure your life, your auto, your home, and your health. Incredibly foolish.

But every American should have the right to be stupid.

Where I draw the line is with kids. I don't think children should pay the penalty for their parents' idiocy.

Infectious diseases exist. All must have medical care available to them. Preventive care is the cheapest way to ensure a healthy populace.

All people have care. Even dumb asses. For the good of all.

I am NOT paying to keep your dumb ass alive. Man up and take responsibility.

 

[tycho1572]

I went to my 6mo. checkup today. It costed me $10.

 

[Defiant1]

I went to my 6mo. checkup today. It costed me $10.

We have an employee clinic, it's $0.
I'm thinking of scheduling my 29 year check-up.

 

[Loving91390]

Single payer will never work .... As long as doctors become doctors to become rich .

 

[LoneLaugher]

I went to my 6mo. checkup today. It costed me $10.

So well said.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I wish the Republicans would offer something. I'm more in the governmental single payer camp but what you posted looks like it could be viable and at the very least we could have an actual debate about ideas rather than just shitting on the other guy, like the post above mine.

Perhaps if you tried actually LOOKING to see what the GOP is offering, rather than just taking the media's word that there isn't anything, you might be a bit more informed and the debate could take place.

The gop is offering something other than health care savings accts?

The GOP has offered lots of suggestions, from various groups within the party. Some common themes are tax breaks to incentive the uninsured to get insured, allowing insurance companies to sell across state lines to increase competition and choice, the HSAs you mention (which I find pretty amazing, just FYI; I love mine), creation of high risk pools within states, Association Health Plans to allow those who do not currently qualify for the good group rates large employers can get to purchase insurance as a group . . . Here's a link to just one plan, which I am neither endorsing nor rejecting; just showing you that the GOP has offered alternatives:

https://abetterway.speaker.gov/_assets/pdf/ABetterWay-HealthCare-PolicyPaper.pdf

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Please don't get ahead of me and think you know where I am going and what I desire.

So I guess I should state up front what I desire.

I believe you should be buying your health insurance the same way you buy your auto, home, and life insurance. You should be able to pick up the phone and call any insurance company in the country and haggle for what you want. If you don't like what they are offering, you can hang up and call another company.

This would provide you with the maximum freedom and, more importantly, the maximum bargaining leverage.

Instead, you are hostage to whatever your employer offers you, if you are lucky enough to have an employer who offers health insurance.

In turn, your employer is hostage to whatever insurance companies are allowed to sell them insurance in their geographical area.

In turn, the insurance companies are hostage to whatever health care providers are allowed to operate in their geographical region.

The whole system is a mess, thanks to government interference in the market.

The government is the biggest player in the health insurance market, and gets to write the rules for its private sector competitors!

How's that been working for ya?

If you were able to buy your health insurance the same way you buy auto, home, and life insurance, you would get long time customer discounts, and bundle discounts, and all the other discounts you enjoy from those other forms of insurance.

As it is now, every time you change your job you start all over from scratch.

Bogus.

But...the Republican Party has demonstrated they have absolutely no intention of ever putting a plan on the table which will provide you maximum freedom, maximum leverage, and lower costs.

The Republican Party has totally abdicated their role in solving our health care problems. To distract you from this fact, they attack the other guys' plans. They cast blame rather than do the hard work. They are critics rather than problem solvers. Whiners rather than helpers.

So what good are they?

Oh, by the way. When Republicans talk about buying health insurance "across state lines", they are being very misleading. They are not talking about being able to buy health insurance from any company in the country.

Thought you should know that.


The road to serfdom, next post.

What's obvious is Medicare for all.

As it is right now, it works and its under budget.

It could be improved but what's wrong with doing that?

For that matter, what's wrong with keeping the good parts of ObamaCares and fixing the rest.

Remember when Medicare started, it was a mess.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Choice:

Every person in this nation gets care.

70% of the people get care because 30% don’t want to pay taxes for it. They go without.

Cost is the same overall for both.

Which one do you select?

My choice is C, where you don't try to define the debate parameters by your hypotheticals and straw men.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Single payer will never work .... As long as doctors become doctors to become rich .

In places with reasonable health care systems, people become doctors to help others. In doing so, they become secure financially and have the respect of their community. They don’t get fucking sued either.

Same goes for teachers and law enforcement officers. As a young man, I was a teacher in Japan. I lived well. My money was no good in several coffee shops and I never paid the entry fee to the public bath.

We could learn from them.