How To Start Real Change

[IM2]

Just started reading Michael Eric Dyson’s newest book, and it already speaks directly to something I have been thinking for a long time: That white people need to listen to black people. Here’s an excerpt talking about a meeting with some prominent black folks (Horne, Belafonte, Baldwin) and Bobby Kennedy.

“In fact, the brutal battering he suffered at the hands of the Baldwin crew offers an important lesson to white people about how to start real change. And that involves sometimes sitting silently, and finally, as black folks have been forced to do, listening, and listening, and listening, and listening some more.”

no one makes blacks listen.

good lord, if listening fixed anything it would have worked years ago.

time to grow the fuck up and take responsibility for your lives and stop blaming whitey every time you don't try to succeed.

It's time whitey grew up and looked at the laws and policies whitey made that created the problems.

what problems are you crying about now?

please keep all your crybaby bullshit in this century.

I did. Because those laws and policies in many cases extended into this century, and some still exist. Also the damage caused by past policies have not been fixed, therefore the existing damage is part of this century. All of this inability to understand these matters are included in me saying that whitey needs to grow up and look at the laws ad policies whitey made that created the problem.

just more crybaby bullshit from a gimme gimme person.

grow up, you are not oppressed, if you were the naacp, miss black America, AA, etc etc would not exists.

Whites have been the people that got the most gimme and want more gimme now. Grow up and stop lying to yourself.

 

[IM2]

Just started reading Michael Eric Dyson’s newest book, and it already speaks directly to something I have been thinking for a long time: That white people need to listen to black people. Here’s an excerpt talking about a meeting with some prominent black folks (Horne, Belafonte, Baldwin) and Bobby Kennedy.

“In fact, the brutal battering he suffered at the hands of the Baldwin crew offers an important lesson to white people about how to start real change. And that involves sometimes sitting silently, and finally, as black folks have been forced to do, listening, and listening, and listening, and listening some more.”

no one makes blacks listen.

good lord, if listening fixed anything it would have worked years ago.

time to grow the fuck up and take responsibility for your lives and stop blaming whitey every time you don't try to succeed.

It's time whitey grew up and looked at the laws and policies whitey made that created the problems.

what problems are you crying about now?

please keep all your crybaby bullshit in this century.

Why should he keep it in this century?

b/c carrying age old baggage around it just idiotic.

It's 2018, the people that are becoming official adults this year had nothing to do with last century.

Teflon Theory of History
Saturday October 9th 2010 by abagond

The Teflon Theory of American History says that anything that took place over 30 years ago is Ancient History. It has Absolutely No Effect on the present. Or not much. Unless it was something good like the light bulb or the Declaration of Independence. Therefore those who make a big deal of the bad stuff in the past, like slavery, are Living in the Past and need to Get Over It.

For example:

Jim Crow laws were overturned by the civil rights movement in the 1950s and 1960s. Therefore according to Teflon Theory the Jim Crow period is now Ancient History. It has Absolutely No Effect on how White Americans alive today think and act. None whatsoever. Or not much. So racism is pretty much dead.

Instead of Jim Crow’s effect slowly weakening over time like you would expect, Teflon Theory would have you suppose that it just disappeared like magic one afternoon sometime in the late 1960s. Even though many White Americans alive now were alive back in Jim Crow times. Even though many others were brought up and shaped by those who were alive back then: parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, teachers, writers, film directors, television producers, news editors and so on.

Few sit on a mountain top to come up with their beliefs all on their own. Instead most people pretty much go along with what everyone else already believes with maybe a few twists here and there. Such beliefs come from the past.

So then why is Teflon Theory believed?

• Because of how American history is taught:
  • American history is taught as dates and people and facts that have little to do with each other. Sometimes the Effects of the the Civil War or Industrialization are studied, for example, but not so for the evil stuff – like how slavery and genocide led to present-day White American wealth, power and racism.
  • American history as taught rarely comes up to the present day. History becomes something in the past, in a book, not something we live in right now.
• Because of the needs of White American self-image:
  • White Americans want to think they are Basically Good and their society is Basically Just. Without Teflon Theory that becomes laughable since it flies in the face of history, common sense and human nature.
  • White Americans avoid honestly facing up to their past because deep down they know it is ugly. Teflon Theory acts as a guard against having to take it seriously.
• Because middle-class whites are protected from the ugly present:
  • Those who live in Apple-pie America rarely see first-hand the injustice that their comfortable lives are built on. And what injustice they do see on occasion, like black ghettos or wars on television fought overseas in their name, they have already learned to not see as injustice. But being protected from the ugly present makes the ugly past seem like another world, like it truly is ancient history with no bearing on the present.

Teflon Theory of History

 

[frigidweirdo]

Listening?

Well how do you listen?

We have representatives to listen. Problem is the political system is messed up, so they don't need to listen to the people.

Until the system changes, more political parties get in and people actually get the representation they should have, listening isn't going to happen in that direction.

They listen to the rich, because the rich make them richer.

No, the listening starts at the grassroots among the people. Some whites have an excuse for everything.

Am I white?

This isn't about excuses.

This is about someone who's lived in countries where there's better representation and believes it works better.

What do you have? Racism.

It is about excuses. As a person who has worked in communities and helped make some changes, I saw that things start at the grassroots and when whites listened things worked better as we were able to work together to make the changes needed. That's what I have.

Things can work at grassroots, and then what? Where do they go from there?

There are many leaders in black communities in the US, and yet, blacks suffer a lot. Why? Because things aren't happening at the top where they really matter.

Making the difference to 20 kids is great. Making the difference to a generation of kids is amazing.

Changing cities social service funding formulas to allow non white community organizations equal access to local tax money is a generational change that did not need a member if the US congress to endorse. We just had a black president. It gets no more top than that. The population of this country does not allow enough national representation by people of color to get things done without whites listening at any level.

So, I state there needs to be a change, and you say I'm wrong because I propose something that will allow enough black national representation.

Go figure.

 

[Paul Essien]

Just started reading Michael Eric Dyson’s newest book, and it already speaks directly to something I have been thinking for a long time: That white people need to listen to black people. Here’s an excerpt talking about a meeting with some prominent black folks (Horne, Belafonte, Baldwin) and Bobby Kennedy.

“In fact, the brutal battering he suffered at the hands of the Baldwin crew offers an important lesson to white people about how to start real change. And that involves sometimes sitting silently, and finally, as black folks have been forced to do, listening, and listening, and listening, and listening some more.”

When you say "white people need to listen to black people" to me that's naive because that assumes that white people are ignorant about racism.

How can people who screw you over be unaware about the fact that they're screwing you over ?

That dumb act white people put on is an act

• They can tell you what weather was like a 100 thousand years ago.
• They can tell you how exactly how deep every ocean is.
• They can tell you how hot the sun is.

And you think the people who can do all that fancy smart sh*t are all of sudden clueless about racism ? And need educating by black people ?

They know.

Seeing black people fked up is white supremacist like Taz, Mudda, SobieskiSavedEurope, harmonica, Claudette, Rambunctious, kaz, get off on. This is what many black people don't get. But u think "Well if tell them how much this racism affects black people, they'll change"

NO !!!

The reason many whites get angry at black people is because many of them think

WHY CAN'T BLACK PEOPLE JUST DIE !!!!!!!!!!

How is it possible that we are still here?

They never expected us to last this long and grow stronger despite all the drugs, war, molestation, slavery, guns, police brutality, AIDS, glass ceilings, minstrel shows/ media destruction/ music destruction, prison systems, killings of our boys and girls, poison water/ food supply, Katrina, Haiti etc…etc…etc.

They are baffled at our resilience and cannot come to terms with it. If they were placed in our situation, any of them, they would have died off centuries ago! This is what they fear most but will NEVER dare admit.

Please understand that white racism stems from fear of genetic annihilation and envy of our hue. Racism is about white genetic survival.

So the thought that they can change this behaviour is a high level expectation.

Your paranoia is showing, my friend.

Am I lying ?

 

[IM2]

No, the listening starts at the grassroots among the people. Some whites have an excuse for everything.

Am I white?

This isn't about excuses.

This is about someone who's lived in countries where there's better representation and believes it works better.

What do you have? Racism.

It is about excuses. As a person who has worked in communities and helped make some changes, I saw that things start at the grassroots and when whites listened things worked better as we were able to work together to make the changes needed. That's what I have.

Things can work at grassroots, and then what? Where do they go from there?

There are many leaders in black communities in the US, and yet, blacks suffer a lot. Why? Because things aren't happening at the top where they really matter.

Making the difference to 20 kids is great. Making the difference to a generation of kids is amazing.

Changing cities social service funding formulas to allow non white community organizations equal access to local tax money is a generational change that did not need a member if the US congress to endorse. We just had a black president. It gets no more top than that. The population of this country does not allow enough national representation by people of color to get things done without whites listening at any level.

So, I state there needs to be a change, and you say I'm wrong because I propose something that will allow enough black national representation.

Go figure.

You really did not propose anything, you stated an opinion. What you think will not do what you think it will. That's what I'm trying to say. There are states where blacks live in small numbers where they may never get a black representative in congress, In order for anything to change for them they are going to have to work with whites to get them to listen in order to get the changes they want. Why do whites like you always think that what you suggest is the ultimate answer for blacks?

 

[IM2]

Just started reading Michael Eric Dyson’s newest book, and it already speaks directly to something I have been thinking for a long time: That white people need to listen to black people. Here’s an excerpt talking about a meeting with some prominent black folks (Horne, Belafonte, Baldwin) and Bobby Kennedy.

“In fact, the brutal battering he suffered at the hands of the Baldwin crew offers an important lesson to white people about how to start real change. And that involves sometimes sitting silently, and finally, as black folks have been forced to do, listening, and listening, and listening, and listening some more.”

When you say "white people need to listen to black people" to me that's naive because that assumes that white people are ignorant about racism.

How can people who screw you over be unaware about the fact that they're screwing you over ?

That dumb act white people put on is an act

• They can tell you what weather was like a 100 thousand years ago.
• They can tell you how exactly how deep every ocean is.
• They can tell you how hot the sun is.

And you think the people who can do all that fancy smart sh*t are all of sudden clueless about racism ? And need educating by black people ?

They know.

Seeing black people fked up is white supremacist like Taz, Mudda, SobieskiSavedEurope, harmonica, Claudette, Rambunctious, kaz, get off on. This is what many black people don't get. But u think "Well if tell them how much this racism affects black people, they'll change"

NO !!!

The reason many whites get angry at black people is because many of them think

WHY CAN'T BLACK PEOPLE JUST DIE !!!!!!!!!!

How is it possible that we are still here?

They never expected us to last this long and grow stronger despite all the drugs, war, molestation, slavery, guns, police brutality, AIDS, glass ceilings, minstrel shows/ media destruction/ music destruction, prison systems, killings of our boys and girls, poison water/ food supply, Katrina, Haiti etc…etc…etc.

They are baffled at our resilience and cannot come to terms with it. If they were placed in our situation, any of them, they would have died off centuries ago! This is what they fear most but will NEVER dare admit.

Please understand that white racism stems from fear of genetic annihilation and envy of our hue. Racism is about white genetic survival.

So the thought that they can change this behaviour is a high level expectation.

Your paranoia is showing, my friend.

Am I lying ?

No. You're spot on.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Am I white?

This isn't about excuses.

This is about someone who's lived in countries where there's better representation and believes it works better.

What do you have? Racism.

It is about excuses. As a person who has worked in communities and helped make some changes, I saw that things start at the grassroots and when whites listened things worked better as we were able to work together to make the changes needed. That's what I have.

Things can work at grassroots, and then what? Where do they go from there?

There are many leaders in black communities in the US, and yet, blacks suffer a lot. Why? Because things aren't happening at the top where they really matter.

Making the difference to 20 kids is great. Making the difference to a generation of kids is amazing.

Changing cities social service funding formulas to allow non white community organizations equal access to local tax money is a generational change that did not need a member if the US congress to endorse. We just had a black president. It gets no more top than that. The population of this country does not allow enough national representation by people of color to get things done without whites listening at any level.

So, I state there needs to be a change, and you say I'm wrong because I propose something that will allow enough black national representation.

Go figure.

You really did not propose anything, you stated an opinion. What you think will not do what you think it will. That's what I'm trying to say. There are states where blacks live in small numbers where they may never get a black representative in congress, In order for anything to change for them they are going to have to work with whites to get them to listen in order to get the changes they want. Why do whites like you always think that what you suggest is the ultimate answer for blacks?

I couldn't give a shit whether you think it's an opinion or whether I proposed it. Fucking hell, how pedantic can you get?

 

[Skull Pilot]

I notice how the OP never mention actually doing something.

Listening to people whine about their problems doesn't accomplish anything

Yeah like you raggedy racists whining about blacks all the time.

I don't whine about Blacks

I just don't care about them just like you Blacks don't care about Blacks

When you won't do shit about young Blacks killing each other why the fuck should I?

Who told you we want your whining ass to care about us? Youre less than irrelevant.

I don't give a flying or any other kind of fuck believe me.

The question is why don't you care about the wholesale slaughter of Black youths by other Black youths?

We do. So concern yourself with the fact that whites are killing each other and that 86 percent of white murders are white on white. Or the 10,000 whites killed annually by other whites driving drunk, impaired or distracted. You've gladly listened to the media pimp you about black crime but you haven't said shit about how white crime is ignored by that same media.

I don't care if whites shoot whites or blacks shoot blacks

Just like you don't care.

70% of all murders occur in very small very distinct urban areas and these murders are predominantly young minorities killing other young minorities.

And you do nothing about it but you bitch and moan about cops and white people.

 

[Paul Essien]

......

The reason many whites get angry at black people is because many of them think

WHY CAN'T BLACK PEOPLE JUST DIE !!!!!!!!!!.....

Has anyone ever said this to you?

No white person has said to me "That he wants black people to die"

But the likes of Taz, Mudda, SobieskiSavedEurope, harmonica, Claudette, @Rambunctious,kaz, abu afak, squeeze berry talk real tough about black people on the net.

But would they have the courage to walk up to a black man and start saying what they say about black people on here to a black man's face ?

Happen. Not. Gonna.

They'd only do that if they had an advantage. (Police, Manager, Or in a gang etc) yeah they might be brave then.

Even in my own life, when a white person has been funny with me at work. I'd follow him home at night. I'd corner him. It would be just me and him. I'd simply put it on him "You have problem with me ? Well let's sort it. Right now"

They sh*t themselves.

And that's where all "O. No. Dude. I was joking. It wasn't me. I'm not like that"

They wimp out.

See when whites have this silly mentality of whites being special and white people being superior. They are afraid the black man's potency. Because when you look at a black man you are looking at a real man. See when you feel inferior you have to push the impression that your superior

And that's why white supremacists create all the weapons, all the bombs, all artillery, all the planes, and the drones and all the arms, the media, it's always has to be OVER THE TOP show of bravado, OVER THE TOP show of strength

 

[JoeMoma]

I've seen large improvements over my lifetime. Lots of real change has already taken place. Almost no one will take you seriously if you continue to deny the change that has taken place. Just a few years before I was born, blacks were not allowed to use the same restrooms as whites. In 2008 we elected our first black president. If that's not real change, I don't know what is. Things are far from perfect, but there has most certainly been real change.

I really don't think you can tell me about the changes I have or haven't seen. I said these are improvements but change means things are not the same. We elected he first back president in 2008 and proceeded to disrespect him in ways no other president in history was ever disrespected. Whites got mad because a black man was president ramping up their racism then blamed Obama for their behavior That's not change. Whites are still running around believing the same shit they believed in the 1700's. Change means that does not exist.

But, but, but JoeMoma really WANTS there to be change!!! Dontchaknow?

And there certainly has been real positive change. Those that deny that there has not been change are simply not credible. That is not to say that there is no need for more change. There will always be room for improvement because the human condition is not perfect.

 

[Paul Essien]

I don't care if whites shoot whites or blacks shoot blacks

Right. So we agree. You don't care whether black people kill black people.

You see there are two types of advice that people give.

1. Advice you give to try and help someone with their problems.
2. Advice you give to help yourself feel better about not knowing how to help them with their problems.

The difference is all in the context.

If you tell someone to brush and floss their teeth every day, that's good advice, but if you're talking to someone who just lost their teeth, because they were in a car accident, within that context, your advice is terrible, and that's how your advice works.

Handing out advice that's valid in the abstract, but useless in context. So you saying that most black people get killed by other black people is correct. But in context to solving the problems of police killing black people in the USA it's useless.

If I was to tell you that more black people were being killed by the police 100 years ago.

You'd probably agree with that.

But you'd be wrong because more black people were killed by the Police in the USA 2015 than in 1896

70% of all murders occur in very small very distinct urban areas and these murders are predominantly young minorities killing other young minorities.

Women are minorities. Transgender people are minorities. Lesbians are minorities.

Just bring it and stop being scared.

Who are you talking about when you say "minorities"

And you do nothing about it but you bitch and moan about cops and white people.

No one on USmessageboard ever calls me a liar.

I speak the truth.

 

[candycorn]

It isnt just america where blacks are treated poorly by some

Rationalization has now gone global!

 

[IM2]

Yeah like you raggedy racists whining about blacks all the time.

I don't whine about Blacks

I just don't care about them just like you Blacks don't care about Blacks

When you won't do shit about young Blacks killing each other why the fuck should I?

Who told you we want your whining ass to care about us? Youre less than irrelevant.

I don't give a flying or any other kind of fuck believe me.

The question is why don't you care about the wholesale slaughter of Black youths by other Black youths?

We do. So concern yourself with the fact that whites are killing each other and that 86 percent of white murders are white on white. Or the 10,000 whites killed annually by other whites driving drunk, impaired or distracted. You've gladly listened to the media pimp you about black crime but you haven't said shit about how white crime is ignored by that same media.

I don't care if whites shoot whites or blacks shoot blacks

Just like you don't care.

70% of all murders occur in very small very distinct urban areas and these murders are predominantly young minorities killing other young minorities.

And you do nothing about it but you bitch and moan about cops and white people.

This is the race and racism section and that means I get to talk about whites who are racists.

It would be wise for your white ass not to comment about what I don't care about, stop lying to yourself about where murders take place, who is doing them according to you and concern yourself with what white people do to each other.

You'd be better off.

 

[IM2]

It is about excuses. As a person who has worked in communities and helped make some changes, I saw that things start at the grassroots and when whites listened things worked better as we were able to work together to make the changes needed. That's what I have.

Things can work at grassroots, and then what? Where do they go from there?

There are many leaders in black communities in the US, and yet, blacks suffer a lot. Why? Because things aren't happening at the top where they really matter.

Making the difference to 20 kids is great. Making the difference to a generation of kids is amazing.

Changing cities social service funding formulas to allow non white community organizations equal access to local tax money is a generational change that did not need a member if the US congress to endorse. We just had a black president. It gets no more top than that. The population of this country does not allow enough national representation by people of color to get things done without whites listening at any level.

So, I state there needs to be a change, and you say I'm wrong because I propose something that will allow enough black national representation.

Go figure.

You really did not propose anything, you stated an opinion. What you think will not do what you think it will. That's what I'm trying to say. There are states where blacks live in small numbers where they may never get a black representative in congress, In order for anything to change for them they are going to have to work with whites to get them to listen in order to get the changes they want. Why do whites like you always think that what you suggest is the ultimate answer for blacks?

I couldn't give a shit whether you think it's an opinion or whether I proposed it. Fucking hell, how pedantic can you get?

Apparently less than you.

 

[IM2]

I've seen large improvements over my lifetime. Lots of real change has already taken place. Almost no one will take you seriously if you continue to deny the change that has taken place. Just a few years before I was born, blacks were not allowed to use the same restrooms as whites. In 2008 we elected our first black president. If that's not real change, I don't know what is. Things are far from perfect, but there has most certainly been real change.

I really don't think you can tell me about the changes I have or haven't seen. I said these are improvements but change means things are not the same. We elected he first back president in 2008 and proceeded to disrespect him in ways no other president in history was ever disrespected. Whites got mad because a black man was president ramping up their racism then blamed Obama for their behavior That's not change. Whites are still running around believing the same shit they believed in the 1700's. Change means that does not exist.

But, but, but JoeMoma really WANTS there to be change!!! Dontchaknow?

And there certainly has been real positive change. Those that deny that there has not been change are simply not credible. That is not to say that there is no need for more change. There will always be room for improvement because the human condition is not perfect.

I say there has been improvements but not the great changes you claim and I am credible, more so than you.

 

[candycorn]

Humans are human...race will be the first thing we see when we encounter someone. That will mentally set off your preconceived stereotypes about what type of person you're dealing with. Not sure how to "solve" it or if it could ever be solved.

It seems to me that the most destructive thing we have going for us is the five milliseconds you give someone to make a first impression and all of the stuff (true and untrue) you tie to that impression. I see facial tatts and I'm going one way with it. I see clean cut and straight laced, I go another way.

 

[JoeMoma]

I've seen large improvements over my lifetime. Lots of real change has already taken place. Almost no one will take you seriously if you continue to deny the change that has taken place. Just a few years before I was born, blacks were not allowed to use the same restrooms as whites. In 2008 we elected our first black president. If that's not real change, I don't know what is. Things are far from perfect, but there has most certainly been real change.

I really don't think you can tell me about the changes I have or haven't seen. I said these are improvements but change means things are not the same. We elected he first back president in 2008 and proceeded to disrespect him in ways no other president in history was ever disrespected. Whites got mad because a black man was president ramping up their racism then blamed Obama for their behavior That's not change. Whites are still running around believing the same shit they believed in the 1700's. Change means that does not exist.

But, but, but JoeMoma really WANTS there to be change!!! Dontchaknow?

And there certainly has been real positive change. Those that deny that there has not been change are simply not credible. That is not to say that there is no need for more change. There will always be room for improvement because the human condition is not perfect.

I say there has been improvements but not the great changes you claim and I am credible, more so than you.

1. Can someone else own you? in the 1700's black people could be owned as slaves. Now slavery is illegal. Real Change!
2. For hundreds of years, black men were often lynched for trying to have a relationship with a white woman. Today interracial marriages are common and accepted by society. Real Change
3. Blacks at one time were not allowed to play in white sports leagues. Today many of the best athletes in professional sport are black people who are adored by people of all races. Also, these black athletes become some of the wealthiest people in the world. Real Change!
4. No more Jim Crow laws. Gone are the days when Blacks were required to use different rest rooms than Whites or give up a bus seat for a White. Real Change!
5. Attitudes have changed significantly. In the 1700's it was common for many whites to openly treat Blacks as animals because that was the consensus of the white run society. Today if a white person gets branded as a racist, that white person becomes an outcast of mainstream society. Real Change!

Someone could easily write a book about the change that has occurred since the 1700's (Start time picked by IM2, not me). And it would be a very thick book.

Maybe I'm wrong and IM2 is right and those items that I listed are not real change; they are simply minor improvements and Blacks in America are just as oppressed as when a slave owner could beat a black slave with a whip for any reason the white slave owner saw fit.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Things can work at grassroots, and then what? Where do they go from there?

There are many leaders in black communities in the US, and yet, blacks suffer a lot. Why? Because things aren't happening at the top where they really matter.

Making the difference to 20 kids is great. Making the difference to a generation of kids is amazing.

Changing cities social service funding formulas to allow non white community organizations equal access to local tax money is a generational change that did not need a member if the US congress to endorse. We just had a black president. It gets no more top than that. The population of this country does not allow enough national representation by people of color to get things done without whites listening at any level.

So, I state there needs to be a change, and you say I'm wrong because I propose something that will allow enough black national representation.

Go figure.

You really did not propose anything, you stated an opinion. What you think will not do what you think it will. That's what I'm trying to say. There are states where blacks live in small numbers where they may never get a black representative in congress, In order for anything to change for them they are going to have to work with whites to get them to listen in order to get the changes they want. Why do whites like you always think that what you suggest is the ultimate answer for blacks?

I couldn't give a shit whether you think it's an opinion or whether I proposed it. Fucking hell, how pedantic can you get?

Apparently less than you.

Why is it, every time I talk to you, it descents into complete nonsense very quickly.

I'm thinking the ignore button might suit you better.

 

[IM2]

I've seen large improvements over my lifetime. Lots of real change has already taken place. Almost no one will take you seriously if you continue to deny the change that has taken place. Just a few years before I was born, blacks were not allowed to use the same restrooms as whites. In 2008 we elected our first black president. If that's not real change, I don't know what is. Things are far from perfect, but there has most certainly been real change.

I really don't think you can tell me about the changes I have or haven't seen. I said these are improvements but change means things are not the same. We elected he first back president in 2008 and proceeded to disrespect him in ways no other president in history was ever disrespected. Whites got mad because a black man was president ramping up their racism then blamed Obama for their behavior That's not change. Whites are still running around believing the same shit they believed in the 1700's. Change means that does not exist.

But, but, but JoeMoma really WANTS there to be change!!! Dontchaknow?

And there certainly has been real positive change. Those that deny that there has not been change are simply not credible. That is not to say that there is no need for more change. There will always be room for improvement because the human condition is not perfect.

I say there has been improvements but not the great changes you claim and I am credible, more so than you.

1. Can someone else own you? in the 1700's black people could be owned as slaves. Now slavery is illegal. Real Change!
2. For hundreds of years, black men were often lynched for trying to have a relationship with a white woman. Today interracial marriages are common and accepted by society. Real Change
3. Blacks at one time were not allowed to play in white sports leagues. Today many of the best athletes in professional sport are black people who are adored by people of all races. Also, these black athletes become some of the wealthiest people in the world. Real Change!
4. No more Jim Crow laws. Gone are the days when Blacks were required to use different rest rooms than Whites or give up a bus seat for a White. Real Change!

5. Attitudes have changed significantly. In the 1700's it was common for many whites to openly treat Blacks as animals because that was the consensus of the white run society. Today if a white person gets branded as a racist, that white person becomes an outcast of mainstream society. Real Change!

Someone could easily write a book about the change that has occurred since the 1700's (Start time picked by IM2, not me). And it would be a very thick book.

Maybe I'm wrong and IM2 is right and those items that I listed are not real change; they are simply minor improvements and Blacks in America are just as oppressed as when a slave owner could beat a black slave with a whip for any reason the white slave owner saw fit.

Lets get down to the brass tacks. Whites today believe that blacks are dumber, inferior more prone to violence and crime, lazy , don't want to work, want to be given everything, don't want to be educated, refuse to take responsibility, and are irresponsible sexually just to name a few. All these things whites have believed since the1700's. Change, real change means attitudes change. A racist is the president of these United States, that's no outcast. So where are the fucking changes son?

 

[John Shaw]

You aren't characterizing the (more widespread) racial animus properly. It isn't hatred, or a desire to see blacks dead. It's fear, and a desire to preserve their culture. They see the country changing at a lightning-fast pace, and their little hearts don't know what to make of it. And even those people are more worried about Hispanics (there is a huge language element in the fear) than blacks, who they largely just don't know and, on a low or even subconscious level, associate with crime.

It has very little to do with wanting black people dead. That's just silly talk.

Let's stop right there...

What are the real-world ramifications of a white society that consciously and/or subconsciously associated blacks w/crime?

Hint: What do we want to do with/to criminals?

It's a problem that I don't have answers for. Sorry. Wish I did. I'd be filthy rich.