How we know Hitler was right wing.

[bripat9643]

Hyperbole aside, Democrats more closely resemble Nazi's than Republicans do. That's what matters to me.

Really? So those neo Nazis who set up booths at gun shows, populate the private militia in America and profess social Darwinism are Democrats...

I've never seen any Nazi booths at gun shows. What evidence do you have that private militia are populated with Nazis? Social Darwinism is an ideal the Democrats invented. No Republican has ever supported the idea.

 

[westwall]

Hitler was a Socialist? But he was also a self professed Nationalist! Had you been observing politics in the 1920's you would have noted no one could be both. Nationalists put their nations interest first - socialists wanted the workers put first.
In fact Hitler was neither Socialist nor Nationalist - he was a poser. He was exactly as ideological as Ghenghis Khan. He killed millions for his twisted, myopic revenge over his own 'Struggle' in WWI and in his subsequent rejection by Germany's elite.

Socialists care about workers? Then why do the workers never seem to get ahead? If you wish to buy a home in Italy, or Germany or any of those places you have to take out a 100 year mortgage because after the government has taken all the tax money from you there is little left.

Socialist governments just drag everyone but the elite to the same low level. No middle class, just a ultra rich ruling class and the rest of the bland masses.

It's obvious you hate 'socialism' . A similar screed would be quite possible to develop against 'Nationalism'. Neither has any bearing on my claim - that Hitler was not an ideologue. In the 1920's the political spectrum had two poles - Nationalist and Socialist. People were one or the other, usually, but never both. Regardless of the fact that there is no socialist paradise anywhere and likely never will be - Hitler was no socialist. He didn't give two figs about workers - and regardless of your claims many who have labored for a Socialist program have mightily believed they were working to improve the lot of workers. Maybe they strove in vain but they truly intended some good for particular groups. Hitler never had such an ambition. Neither was he a Nationalist - those folks venerated tradition while Hitler did not. Hitler claimed to be both a Nationalist and a Socialist. If someone ever comes claiming to be a Liberal Conservative beware - that's exactly what the NAZI's got away with once. They were, in fact, neither socialists nor nationalists.

I despise socialism and have actually lived in socialist countries so have seen first hand the corruption, the listless people, the environmental destruction, and the enormous wealth disparity between the ruling elite and the workers they so claim to support.

You are no doubt a nice person but the reality of socialism is it is mind numbingly bad for the general public at large.

 

[Political Junky]

Hyperbole aside, Democrats more closely resemble Nazi's than Republicans do. That's what matters to me.

Really? So those neo Nazis who set up booths at gun shows, populate the private militia in America and profess social Darwinism are Democrats...

I've never seen any Nazi booths at gun shows. What evidence do you have that private militia are populated with Nazis? Social Darwinism is an ideal the Democrats invented. No Republican has ever supported the idea.

File:National Socialist Movement Rally US Capitol.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[bripat9643]

Really? So those neo Nazis who set up booths at gun shows, populate the private militia in America and profess social Darwinism are Democrats...

I've never seen any Nazi booths at gun shows. What evidence do you have that private militia are populated with Nazis? Social Darwinism is an ideal the Democrats invented. No Republican has ever supported the idea.

File:National Socialist Movement Rally US Capitol.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That's not a gun show. You would expect to see Nazis at a rally organized by the Nazi party.

If I accused the Democrat party of being over populated with Communists, would you accept a photo of a Communist Party meeting as proof?

 

[westwall]

That's nonsense - in fact Hitler made guns easier to own. He made access to hunting rifles a right and for the millions who joined his party the right to a handgun was guaranteed
http://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=4029&context=flr

So, let's see. If you were a member of the Nazi Party you got all kinds of perks and special treatment. You were part of the ruling elite and had the power to declare someone a enemy of the Party (which meant they were also an enemy of the State) so how many people bought or were gifted that status?

Well let's see here, there were 70 million people in the country and the Nazi Party numbered at its height 5.5 to 6 million....so 7% of the population got to live comfy lives while the rest were exploited. Sounds about right.

 

[Political Junky]

I've never seen any Nazi booths at gun shows. What evidence do you have that private militia are populated with Nazis? Social Darwinism is an ideal the Democrats invented. No Republican has ever supported the idea.

File:National Socialist Movement Rally US Capitol.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That's not a gun show. You would expect to see Nazis at a rally organized by the Nazi party.

If I accused the Democrat party of being over populated with Communists, would you accept a photo of a Communist Party meeting as proof?

Pro-Guns, Anti-Obama - The Daily Beast

Pro-Guns, Anti-Obama
Apr 29, 2009 2:44 AM EDT
Not everyone is celebrating Obama's 100 days. Max Blumenthal takes his cameras into America's gun shows, where paranoia, conspiracy theories-and Nazi flags-abound. Watch his report.

 

[bripat9643]

File:National Socialist Movement Rally US Capitol.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That's not a gun show. You would expect to see Nazis at a rally organized by the Nazi party.

If I accused the Democrat party of being over populated with Communists, would you accept a photo of a Communist Party meeting as proof?

Pro-Guns, Anti-Obama - The Daily Beast

Pro-Guns, Anti-Obama
Apr 29, 2009 2:44 AM EDT
Not everyone is celebrating Obama's 100 days. Max Blumenthal takes his cameras into America's gun shows, where paranoia, conspiracy theories-and Nazi flags-abound. Watch his report.

Selling paraphernalia from WW II doesn't make you a Nazi. I guess every GI who brought an SS dagger home from the war is a Nazi, eh?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

File:National Socialist Movement Rally US Capitol.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That's not a gun show. You would expect to see Nazis at a rally organized by the Nazi party.

If I accused the Democrat party of being over populated with Communists, would you accept a photo of a Communist Party meeting as proof?

Pro-Guns, Anti-Obama - The Daily Beast

Pro-Guns, Anti-Obama
Apr 29, 2009 2:44 AM EDT
Not everyone is celebrating Obama's 100 days. Max Blumenthal takes his cameras into America's gun shows, where paranoia, conspiracy theories-and Nazi flags-abound. Watch his report.

If he found Nazi flags abounding at a gun show he planted them himself.

 

[WUN]

That's because authoritarianism is not intrinsically linked with communism. We see examples in the world that embody both traits and assume those states bought those two ideas as a package -- rather than two separate ideas that arrived on different trains and just happened to wind up in the same place.

Otherwise, good analysis.

Pure communism is not instrinsically linked with authortarianism, but pure communism has never existed in the real world, only in theory or on paper. You look at any communist regime in history and there is an element of authortarianism. True, if you pick Stalin he is probably the most authortarian dictator in the history of communist regimes, but he is not the only one. Mao was a authortarian dictator, no doubt about it. More recent Communist regimes are typically authortarian oligarchies that exert a great amount of control over the populace (for their own good?). If you can come up with an example of a communist regime that wasn't/isn't authortarian in nature, I'd be interested in discussing that.

I think pure communism would work on a small scale.

Maybe, but excessive lust for power destroys it and it seems no matter what culture you go to there is some of that going on.

 

[Agit8r]

I think pure communism would work on a small scale.

Speaking of which, has Obama visited the Israeli settlements yet

 

[Political Junky]

That's not a gun show. You would expect to see Nazis at a rally organized by the Nazi party.

If I accused the Democrat party of being over populated with Communists, would you accept a photo of a Communist Party meeting as proof?

Pro-Guns, Anti-Obama - The Daily Beast

Pro-Guns, Anti-Obama
Apr 29, 2009 2:44 AM EDT
Not everyone is celebrating Obama's 100 days. Max Blumenthal takes his cameras into America's gun shows, where paranoia, conspiracy theories-and Nazi flags-abound. Watch his report.

If he found Nazi flags abounding at a gun show he planted them himself.

Daily Kos: Democrats at Gun Show and No One Was Hurt

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Pro-Guns, Anti-Obama - The Daily Beast

Pro-Guns, Anti-Obama
Apr 29, 2009 2:44 AM EDT
Not everyone is celebrating Obama's 100 days. Max Blumenthal takes his cameras into America's gun shows, where paranoia, conspiracy theories-and Nazi flags-abound. Watch his report.

If he found Nazi flags abounding at a gun show he planted them himself.

Daily Kos: Democrats at Gun Show and No One Was Hurt

A flag is not abounding with flags.

Thanks for proving my point though.

 

[westwall]

Pro-Guns, Anti-Obama - The Daily Beast

Pro-Guns, Anti-Obama
Apr 29, 2009 2:44 AM EDT
Not everyone is celebrating Obama's 100 days. Max Blumenthal takes his cameras into America's gun shows, where paranoia, conspiracy theories-and Nazi flags-abound. Watch his report.

If he found Nazi flags abounding at a gun show he planted them himself.

Daily Kos: Democrats at Gun Show and No One Was Hurt

Interesting. They claim that NAZI flags were all over the place and not a single photo shows one.

 

[Oddball]

Hyperbole aside, Democrats more closely resemble Nazi's than Republicans do. That's what matters to me.

Really? So those neo Nazis who set up booths at gun shows, populate the private militia in America and profess social Darwinism are Democrats...

You've never been to a gun show in your life, you lying sack.

 

[Bfgrn]

Swastikas and Semi-automatics: What's Wrong With Gun Show Culture

Last weekend alone, there were at least 44 separate gun shows in this country. After reading up on the historic increase in gun purchases after the election of Barack Obama as well as articles linking Nazi and Klan propaganda with gun show offerings, I had a few questions on my mind.

This weekend, how many guns were purchased out of hate? This weekend, how many relics of human beings' persecutory past were purchased in an attempt to revive such hatred?

Timothy McVeigh himself sold The Turner Diaries, a novel written by a neo-Nazi leader that was labeled the "Bible of the racist right" by the FBI, at gun shows before he carried out the Oklahoma City Bombing attacks.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


There's nothing fun about this fairgrounds show

It is Friday evening in late October, and the shadows on the Indiana State Fairgrounds are starting to lengthen as I pay nine bucks to gain admission into the 1500 Gun and Knife Show.

Twenty-five feet inside the entrance of the South Pavilion building, a display table is draped with the striking red background and black swastika of the Nazi flag. Ten feet farther, an SS uniform is for sale. The crowd of several hundred, virtually all white men, mill past displays of Confederate flags and National Rifle Association literature. One vendor features T-shirts of the iconic yellow smiley face with a bullet hole in its forehead and brains blown out the back of its skull.

Thousands of weapons are for sale. Glock 23 fully automatic pistols, Uzi nine millimeters, Colt 44 magnum Anacondas. Some cost less than $100.

One display includes copies of legal treatises on the "castle doctrine," the law that allows the use of deadly force on intruders. Next to the stack of treatises are bumper stickers reading, "Osama bin Laden/Obama Joe Biden. Coincidence?"

When someone picks up a bumper sticker, the man working the display nods. "God help us if McCain doesn't win," he says. "I live in South Bend, which is 35 percent black. That's what you call a target-rich environment."

My companion at the gun show is Joe Zelenka, who coordinates for the Church Federation of Greater Indianapolis the prayer vigils held after murders in the city. When weapons like the ones sold at the firgrounds make real human beings look like the blown-away smiley face on the T-shirts, Zelenka is there to hear the mothers' cries of anguish.

He points to a Springfield XD 9 millimeter semi-automatic pistol. "Not legal in California," the box reads. "The only things these are used to hunt for is people," Zelenka says.

 

[Bfgrn]

Inside Gun Shows

Political activities at gun shows represent views that start at the conservative and move to the right from there.

Issue oriented politics is always present, whether an election is in the offing or not. Most of the time, this activity -except for the constant presence of the NRA- does not deal primarily with guns. Perhaps, in this setting, organized advocacy on gun issues seems superfluous. Instead, Cold War leftovers like the John Birch Society are joined by organizations that promote closing the borders, not paying taxes, and defending traditional Christianity.

Perhaps the most disturbing political activity at gun shows, partly because of its content and partly because of its high prevalence, concerns identity politics. Support for the ideas behind the Confederacy goes well beyond nostalgia and regional pride to calls for continuing a war of secession and to overt racism. Neo-Confederacy groups such as the Sons of Confederate Veterans rent table space and recruit new members. Ku Klux Klan merchandise was observed in Tampa, Florida; Harrisburg, Pennsylvania; and Tucson, Arizona. The Militia of Montana recruits at gun shows in Spokane, Washington.

The National Association of Arms Shows and some individual promoters have policies forbidding activities and merchandise that promote Nazism and related hate-based movements. Most vendors of Nazi materials are just selling war memorabilia, but some are clearly proselytizing. Two young men staffed a booth for the neo-Nazi National Alliance at a Crossroads of the West show in Denver, Colorado. (This was in 2003, and the organization did not appear to be present at later Denver shows.)

The White People’s Party, a political party related to the National Alliance, had a noisy recruiting table outside the entrance to a show in Las Vegas, Nevada. An unlicensed gun vendor in Dallas displayed materials from the South African National Socialist Party. Other shows have very little of this activity, and at least one large event, in Orlando, Florida, appeared to have none at all.

Copies of The Turner Diaries are everywhere. This book, by National Alliance founder William Pierce, is believed to have provided the blueprint for Timothy McVeigh’s bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, on April 19, 1989—the day before Adolf Hitler’s 100th birthday. Pierce saw gun shows as an ideal place for recruiting efforts.

http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/newsroom/images/Wintemute_gun_study9-2009/IGS6web.pdf

 

[Saigon]

He hated Marxism, not socialism. You keep trying to ignore that fact no matter how many times someone informs you of it.

I do ignore it, because it is has no basis in reality.

Marxism (and/or Marxism-Leninism) is not only the predominant form of socialism, but Marx was the author of what we understand Socialism to be. There would likely be no Socialism witout Marx (and Engels) and the difference between the two terms is paper thin, if there is a difference at all. Many sources use the terms interchangeably when discussing movements such as the FSLN, Russian Bolsheviks or other peasant rebellions.

You might as well claim that someone hated Maoism, but loved Chinese Communism.

I thought you said you made your living doing this. Marxism-Leninism is usually classified as communism, not socialism.

It certainly could be considered communism, yes, but because socialism is a transition on the path between demoracy and communism, it isn't a huge difference.

I would add that Marxism-Leninism is generally seen as slightly more militant or extreme than Marxian Socialism.

btw, If it is possible for you to post without banal insults, try and do so.

 

[Saigon]

Didn't the Nazi's go after guns?

No, he didn't - that is another one of the distortions the extreme right seem to be selling.

"The Nazi Party did not ride to power confiscating guns. They rode to power on the inability of the Weimar Republic to confiscate their guns. They did not consolidate their power confiscating guns either. There is no historical evidence that Nazis ever went door to door in Germany confiscating guns. The Germans had a fetish about paperwork and documented everything. These searches and confiscations would have been carefully recorded. If the documents are there, let them be presented as evidence."

It's always interesting when we see this distortions posted to wonder if the person is just genuinely confused, as I think some posters like BriPat were, or had simple decided to post things with no factual basis, as I believe SSDD does.

 

[Saigon]

If it's born on the "right", why is it used by every leftist country on the planet?

Riddle me that Batman.

Jesus wept...when I see posts like this I really wonder about history is taught in American schools. I'd like to think no Finnish high school student would write something like that.

Westwall - socialism, Marxism and Communism are left wing.

Hitler, however, considered himself to be a right-wing fascist and Nazi. He wanted to use the term 'Social Revolutionary' rather than Socialist because he was concerned that illierate Americans wouldn't get it - and clearly he was right to worry.

This has been posted on this thread at least twelve times now, usually with links. But funnily enough - the myths just keep on coming.

 

[Political Junky]

If it's born on the "right", why is it used by every leftist country on the planet?

Riddle me that Batman.

Jesus wept...when I see posts like this I really wonder about history is taught in American schools. I'd like to think no Finnish high school student would write something like that.

Westwall - socialism, Marxism and Communism are left wing.

Hitler, however, considered himself to be a right-wing fascist and Nazi. He wanted to use the term 'Social Revolutionary' rather than Socialist because he was concerned that illierate Americans wouldn't get it - and clearly he was right to worry.

This has been posted on this thread at least twelve times now, usually with links. But funnily enough - the myths just keep on coming.

Trust me, it wasn't taught in US schools when I attended. I understand that in Texas they're teaching some pretty strange stuff now, though.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/28/texas-public-schools-teac_n