How we know Hitler was right wing.

[bripat9643]

I think one has to be just a tad braindead to still be falling for the LEFT V RIGHT narrative.

Hitler WAS what Hitler was.

It takes the mind of a child to think that calling him a leftist or a rightest makes any difference to today's leftists or rightests.

They are what THEY ARE, not what HITLER WAS.

If that was the case, then why are leftists like Saigon so determined to label him a "right-winger?" It does matter because if people want to know what caused WW II and the holocaust, they have to look at the ideas of the people who instigated these events. Leftist don't want to admit that Hitler was one of theirs because that casts a damning shadow on everything they believe.

 

[ima]

What I do know is that Hitler made one HUGE mistake: he tried to take Russia.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I think one has to be just a tad braindead to still be falling for the LEFT V RIGHT narrative.

Hitler WAS what Hitler was.

It takes the mind of a child to think that calling him a leftist or a rightest makes any difference to today's leftists or rightests.

They are what THEY ARE, not what HITLER WAS.

If that was the case, then why are leftists like Saigon so determined to label him a "right-winger?" It does matter because if people want to know what caused WW II and the holocaust, they have to look at the ideas of the people who instigated these events. Leftist don't want to admit that Hitler was one of theirs because that casts a damning shadow on everything they believe.

Exactly correct.

 

[beagle9]

"Liberalism is a disease of the mind that weakens and corrupts human beings." Adolf Hitler, 1939

Was Hitler right in this quote ? Did he see liberalism as a cultural disease ?

The problem with Hitler is that he became a monster in his hatred for those he opposed or if they didn't fit the vision in which he had envisioned for the future of the German people & their culture he wanted to create for them, so for those who did not agree with him or stood in his way, then he wanted rid of them. So he began doing things that sealed his fate as a monster, and this as found within the worlds eyes, and within the German peoples eyes as well in the end. Now was Hitler always a monster or was he driven eventually to become the monster that he had became over time ? All children I feel are born with good intentions, and they are born with a true innocence in their lives in the beginning, and this along with their character in the beginning as they are children/babies, but depending on where they were born, their surroundings, their happenings, their scars received as they grew, and this whether by flesh or be it found in their mental, it begins to shape them into who they are. So what goes on in their up bringing's and/or their war experiences, their family drama's etc. could very well explain a lot about who they had become, and how they had become who they had become in their lives. People regardless of what group they belong to, can do damage to another group or individual if they so choose to in many ways, and then this leads to the group or person abused or shunned, to then begin hating or either wanting to rise up above the groups abusiveness against them/him/her. When this happens they begin to either get back at them maybe through violence or by simply gaining power above them in which renders the group powerless against them on down the road a ways. Many times just by simply educating themselves out of it, they can insulate or free themselves from the abuses of another, but people must always be careful or take heed as to who is doing the teaching or for whom is allowed to do the teaching to the young in a culture or within multi-cultural societies, as this is the beginning of it all or right where it can begin to all go wrong.

Then there is the cultures found within each tribe so to speak, and how they fit with or into the culture of another tribe in life, so when cultures are thrown together in a whirlwind or somehow they end up occupying the same spaces, we see a thing called culture clash that could or sometime erupts, where a labeling process begins as so to identify with certain cultures or either to separate from them. This usually goes along with clothing worn and jewelry worn, tattoo's worn, or even forced clothing worn as in the case of prisoners or with the Jews when they were taken as prisoners by the Nazi's, and then were killed with expectations to rid Germany and their newly defeated lands of them.

Why they hated these people in this way is beyond me, because I just can't see why people can't always have room to accommodate others except that they be those who are very bad who are amongst them, then a separation must come before the family is influenced by devils or a single devil whom has been allowed to linger by the water barrel a little to long. Devils are usually individuals who infiltrate groups, and if not careful the entire group could become corrupt by a single charismatic devil , and therefore become as the Germans turned Nazi became "monsters" eventually as a result of the infiltration.

There has never been a problem amongst the tribes I don't think, as regarding ones skin color in the world, but what there has been a problem with, is how ones culture is perceived by another, and what it represents as a threat to other cultures as they perceive any other culture in this way, so the culture wars continue in the world, and this will go on until the Lord comes back and frees us from these wars. Once in the Lords hands we are all Gods children regardless of our outer appearances , and we will worship his loving merciful spirit always, as it is who we are as Gods people, and as we become one with his love and kindness, we become one with the universe. Man has not the ability to bridge this gap in the flesh, so we must always look to our higher power & authority to help us do these things as best we can, as it is the only way to come close to what is good and peaceful for all until that day comes, and we are gathered up as the Lords children.

 

[Saigon]

If that was the case, then why are leftists like Saigon so determined to label him a "right-winger?" It does matter because if people want to know what caused WW II and the holocaust, they have to look at the ideas of the people who instigated these events. Leftist don't want to admit that Hitler was one of theirs because that casts a damning shadow on everything they believe.

Jesus Christ, BriPat I am NOT a "leftist". If you want to know my politics - ask.

Can you really not understand that Hitler is labeled a right wing, not out of any conspiracy or bias , but because he so obviously was right wing?

Every poster on this thread, left or right, admits that Stalin and Mao were left wing. So were Castro, Tito, Xoxha and Ceaucescu.

It should be obvious to anyone that the re-writing of history is not being done by anyone on the left.

 

[Saigon]

I reject the appeal to authority. Historians are mostly propagandists on the government payroll. Almost none of them know a damn thing about economics. The appeal to authority is your favorite schtick. All you can do is quote one leftist humbug after another who says Hitler was a leftist. However, when you look at what Hitler actually said and did, these claims don't hold up. There's no shortage of leftists populating Western universities. The fact that they all disown Hitler couldn't be more predictable.

No, you reject authority. You reject books, history, dictionaries and science. You reject information, you reject intelligence. The funny thing is - Hitler shared your anti-intellectualism.

btw. You asked for a book of fascist economics, and I posted one from Richard Overy, an excellent and unbiased source. I've read it - so should you.

btw, If you check my sources, you won't find one that is left wing. Not one. At least one was a member of a fascist organisation, though!

 

[Saigon]

None of it is based on first hand sources.

And then we come to the lies.

"The main plank in the Nationalist Socialist program is to abolish the liberalistic concept of the individual and the Marxist concept of humanity and to substitute for them the folk community, rooted in the soil and bound together by the bond of its common blood."(Hitler)

"Liberalism is a disease of the mind that weakens and corrupts human beings." Adolf Hitler, 1939.

There are more quotes from Hitler through-out the thread, plus I have used people like Arendt and Heidigger as sources - both lived through the events in question.

 

[beagle9]

If that was the case, then why are leftists like Saigon so determined to label him a "right-winger?" It does matter because if people want to know what caused WW II and the holocaust, they have to look at the ideas of the people who instigated these events. Leftist don't want to admit that Hitler was one of theirs because that casts a damning shadow on everything they believe.

Jesus Christ, BriPat I am NOT a "leftist". If you want to know my politics - ask.

Can you really not understand that Hitler is labeled a right wing, not out of any conspiracy or bias , but because he so obviously was right wing?

Every poster on this thread, left or right, admits that Stalin and Mao were left wing. So were Castro, Tito, Xoxha and Ceaucescu.

It should be obvious to anyone that the re-writing of history is not being done by anyone on the left.

Yes, but funny how this labeling and attempt to label or compare is being done in the midst of what is going on currently in America, and so are you saying there is no association with this thread and the politics of this sort of thing in which you are engulfed in here, and why does this also suspiciously compare to the politics of America? Are the groups who have taken their corners at the tables trying to sort it all out as well ? Is it that people are seeing through this, but you are resisting their eyes wide open thoughts with deflections when they get close ?

 

[Saigon]

Beagle -

It is interesting that one element of Hitler's regime was labeling groups within society. It was a classic 'divide and conquer' tactic also utilised by other right wing dictators like Pinochet and Cristiani. Anyone suspicious can have their career tarnished by calling them a 'socialist', gay, Jewish, Roma, "intellectual", pro-Soviet or Polish.

BriPat does the same thing. Anyone and everyone who doesn't fall into step must be labeled, generally without even the pretense that the label might be correct.

I particularly like how he attacks sources like Heidigger as "leftist" - when Heidigger was actually a Nazi himself, and perhaps the most noted philosopher the extreme right wing produced in the 20th century!

 

[editec]

I think one has to be just a tad braindead to still be falling for the LEFT V RIGHT narrative.

Hitler WAS what Hitler was.

It takes the mind of a child to think that calling him a leftist or a rightest makes any difference to today's leftists or rightests.

They are what THEY ARE, not what HITLER WAS.

If that was the case, then why are leftists like Saigon so determined to label him a "right-winger?"

Well I cannot speak to his motives specifically, but I can say that generally partisans who imagine themselves rightests do not want to be associated with Hitler, and likewise, partisans who imagine themselves lefts feel the same.

It does matter because if people want to know what caused WW II and the holocaust, they have to look at the ideas of the people who instigated these events.

No I don't think...at least not in they way you've expressed it above.

Leftist don't want to admit that Hitler was one of theirs because that casts a damning shadow on everything they believe.

Hitlerian Germany was not one of anybody's.

Even Franco and Mussolini tried to distance themselves from his type of FASCISM.

What Hitler's government was was a highly authoritarian government which continued to respect the concept of capaitalism EXCEPT if the people with capital happened to be Jews or his personal enemies.

Basically he and his crew were thugs with power.

 

[jon_berzerk]

I think one has to be just a tad braindead to still be falling for the LEFT V RIGHT narrative.

Hitler WAS what Hitler was.

It takes the mind of a child to think that calling him a leftist or a rightest makes any difference to today's leftists or rightests.

They are what THEY ARE, not what HITLER WAS.

Well I cannot speak to his motives specifically, but I can say that generally partisans who imagine themselves rightests do not want to be associated with Hitler, and likewise, partisans who imagine themselves lefts feel the same.





No I don't think...at least not in they way you've expressed it above.

Leftist don't want to admit that Hitler was one of theirs because that casts a damning shadow on everything they believe.

Hitlerian Germany was not one of anybody's.

Even Franco and Mussolini tried to distance themselves from his type of FASCISM.

What Hitler's government was was a highly authoritarian government which continued to respect the concept of capaitalism EXCEPT if the people with capital happened to be Jews or his personal enemies.

Basically he and his crew were thugs with power.

nothing is real cut and dried with the tickings of hitler

other then he was purely evil

he didnt "respect" capitalism at all

In 1919-20 and also in 1921 I attended some of the bourgeois [capitalist] meetings. Invariably I had the same feeling towards these as towards the compulsory dose of castor oil in my boyhood days. . . . And so it is not surprising that the sane and unspoiled masses shun these ‘bourgeois mass meetings’ as the devil shuns holy water.-hitler

 

[beagle9]

I think one has to be just a tad braindead to still be falling for the LEFT V RIGHT narrative.

Hitler WAS what Hitler was.

It takes the mind of a child to think that calling him a leftist or a rightest makes any difference to today's leftists or rightests.

They are what THEY ARE, not what HITLER WAS.

Well I cannot speak to his motives specifically, but I can say that generally partisans who imagine themselves rightests do not want to be associated with Hitler, and likewise, partisans who imagine themselves lefts feel the same.





No I don't think...at least not in they way you've expressed it above.

Leftist don't want to admit that Hitler was one of theirs because that casts a damning shadow on everything they believe.

Hitlerian Germany was not one of anybody's.

Even Franco and Mussolini tried to distance themselves from his type of FASCISM.

What Hitler's government was was a highly authoritarian government which continued to respect the concept of capaitalism EXCEPT if the people with capital happened to be Jews or his personal enemies.

Basically he and his crew were thugs with power.

Good objective points, but the seeds of Hitlerism can easily get started in any cultural movement that wants to cherry pick what they see as worthy to them in order to use such points from that period to empower them as they would think that it could.

We see these wants and desires in groups or people more and more, but what America must do, is it must preserve the American culture always, but the only way to do this is to define the American culture again, and then be proud of it, to unify in it and protect it, but there are forces within that seek to tear down the culture, and to distort the American culture in an attempt to temporarily disassociate themselves from it and the world from it as if it is no more, and they are doing this as so to redefine it, change it, recreate it, and all in order to make it more useful to their groups or groups ideals and cultures in which they see as better for them once achieve this task. Corporations are another force against the social fabric of a nations unified culture, as it seeks to rape and pillage the cultures economies or financial security, therefore sometimes leaving them in a wasteland and highly dependent afterwards. We can see this on a state by state basis in this nation now, and it has been devastating to much of the American economy, because we trusted the corporate models and ideals all wrapped in gold far to much. Some have been good, but many where bad for us as it turned out, or rather they had turned bad for us over time in which was not good in the end.

The anti-American groups don't make up the numbers in which would counter the numbers of those who see it way differently than they do, yet they are attempting this tear down anyways. It's as plain as the nose on our faces anymore.

So far because of the peaceful nature of those who are Christian, and are still a silent majority in this nation, and for whom have made up this silent majority in this nation over the many long years we have existed as such, we see that these groups now see this as a weakness or infiltration point to exploit in our kindness they take as a weakness, and as we see they have been successful at their infiltration into what was once seen as a unified American culture, but now is falling apart rapidly for many. Why is this we should all wonder with prayer anymore, because somehow we have lost our way, and those who seek to separate and destroy are winning the day now against us.

We have had in this culture many make up's or attributes including being Christian in a majority as one of those makes ups. This is seen in evidence of the hundreds of thousands of churches we see now strewn across the landscape of America, thus dating back hundreds of years now, and in which I feel held the culture together over those years in many ways, as well as through many events and even wars. The Christianity part of it all (imho) therefore allowed us to work through some difficult issues and trying times over the years, yet I feel now that as God is pushed back by these groups or due to the radicalization of some groups still claiming to represent Christianity (yet in a false prophet kind of way), we are all under full attack now in this nation and in the world, and it is coming in from far to many sides, thus now it's all begging to make us eventually fall from within as a result of it all.

 

[Saigon]

Even Franco and Mussolini tried to distance themselves from his type of FASCISM.

Although that is true, I think we also have to be clear that Antonescu was every bit as extreme as Hitler - so Fascism's excesses can not be blamed upon one man or one regime only.

Even though Franco's and Mussolini's right wing extremism lacked the hatred, the intensity and racism of Hitler's, both were undeniably fascists as well.

 

[beagle9]

The best way to win over anyone or any culture, is to set a great example in your own culture, and so have we been doing this as Americans, and if we haven't then this is where the weakness is coming in, and has been located. Now what do we do to change this ? Is it to fall to another in our pity party, or begin to rebuild again by going back to what we know was right, and empowering right again in our culture, instead of empowering wrong in our culture ? These are simple thoughts, but are found in a very complicated world in which has now been created due to the fall of Americanism it seems in which once surrounded us, and has this fall been either by our own hand or by those hands in which have sought to destroy us for along time now? Have our enemies finally found the weakness within in order to finally move in like wolves after their prey once weak enough to not defend itself any longer ? Many thoughts to ponder as we go through these changes and changing times in which we may not be the one steering the wheel any longer. It is the hopes of many who have seen our demise over time, that we no longer steer the wheels of our own nation any longer, but what do they have in store for us in these hopes of theirs? We might should all wonder with terror now, because as we have forsaken our Lord Christ within this nation, we can only pray that his mercy found upon our ignorance these days, is a very merciful and loving forgiveness that to shield us from our enemies whom seek to take advantage of our folly, and our confusion now achieved at the hands of those who have done this to us or from our own in which we have done this to ourselves.

Many may be arming themselves as not aggressors these days, but more so in defense of what they feel may be the final push to rid them of their Americanism, and their Christian beliefs rooted in that Americanism, so is this a rational thought by them in all that they are seeing and have been witnessing these days? Of course they are portrayed as militants and radicals by these moves, but isn't that ironic that they are portrayed in this way within their own nation in which they see themselves as Americans within, and for whom in their minds they are protecting Americanism and their heritage as Americans who have been living within America by these moves ?

 

[Oddball]

Because it most certainly bears repeating...

From Hitler's 25 Points of the NASDP:

7. We demand that the State shall above all undertake to ensure that every citizen shall have the possibility of living decently and earning a livelihood. ~Socialist

10. The first duty of every citizen must be to work mentally or physically. No individual shall do any work that offends against the interest of the community to the benefit of all. ~Socialist

Therefore we demand:

11. That all unearned income, and all income that does not arise from work, be abolished.~Socialist

12. Since every war imposes on the people fearful sacrifices in blood and treasure, all personal profit arising from the war must be regarded as treason to the people. We therefore demand the total confiscation of all war profits.~Socialist

13. We demand the nationalization of all trusts.~Socialist

14. We demand profit-sharing in large industries.~Socialist

15. We demand a generous increase in old-age pensions.~Socialist

16. We demand the creation and maintenance of a sound middle-class, the immediate communalization of large stores which will be rented cheaply to small tradespeople, and the strongest consideration must be given to ensure that small traders shall deliver the supplies needed by the State, the provinces and municipalities.~Socialist

17. We demand an agrarian reform in accordance with our national requirements, and the enactment of a law to expropriate the owners without compensation of any land needed for the common purpose. The abolition of ground rents, and the prohibition of all speculation in land.~Socialist

18. We demand that ruthless war be waged against those who work to the injury of the common welfare. Traitors, usurers, profiteers, etc., are to be punished with death, regardless of creed or race.~Socialist

19. We demand that Roman law, which serves a materialist ordering of the world, be replaced by German common law.~Socialist

20. In order to make it possible for every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education, and thus the opportunity to reach into positions of leadership, the State must assume the responsibility of organizing thoroughly the entire cultural system of the people. The curricula of all educational establishments shall be adapted to practical life. The conception of the State Idea (science of citizenship) must be taught in the schools from the very beginning. We demand that specially talented children of poor parents, whatever their station or occupation, be educated at the expense of the State.~Socialist

21. The State has the duty to help raise the standard of national health by providing maternity welfare centers, by prohibiting juvenile labor, by increasing physical fitness through the introduction of compulsory games and gymnastics, and by the greatest possible encouragement of associations concerned with the physical education of the young.~Socialist

22. We demand the abolition of the regular army and the creation of a national (folk) army.~Socialist

23. We demand that there be a legal campaign against those who propagate deliberate political lies and disseminate them through the press. In order to make possible the creation of a German press, we demand:

(a) All editors and their assistants on newspapers published in the German language shall be German citizens.

(b) Non-German newspapers shall only be published with the express permission of the State. They must not be published in the German language.

(c) All financial interests in or in any way affecting German newspapers shall be forbidden to non-Germans by law, and we demand that the punishment for transgressing this law be the immediate suppression of the newspaper and the expulsion of the non-Germans from the Reich.

Newspapers transgressing against the common welfare shall be suppressed. We demand legal action against those tendencies in art and literature that have a disruptive influence upon the life of our folk, and that any organizations that offend against the foregoing demands shall be dissolved.~Socialist

24. We demand freedom for all religious faiths in the state, insofar as they do not endanger its existence or offend the moral and ethical sense of the Germanic race.~Socialist

The party as such represents the point of view of a positive Christianity without binding itself to any one particular confession. It fights against the Jewish materialist spirit within and without, and is convinced that a lasting recovery of our folk can only come about from within on the pinciple:

COMMON GOOD BEFORE INDIVIDUAL GOOD

25. In order to carry out this program we demand: the creation of a strong central authority in the State, the unconditional authority by the political central parliament of the whole State and all its organizations. ~Socialist

The History Place - Rise of Hitler: The 25 Points of Hitler's Nazi Party

"Right wing" never looked so socialistic. [/QUOTE]

 

[regent]

Hitler had beliefs, strong beliefs, about things and he carried out some of those beliefs in practice, and the practice was costly. The generation that lived with those practices could name the beliefs, but today, because of politics, we muddy the waters and can't even agree on the name to give Hitler's beliefs. Some want to pretend they are unimportant and of no matter, and if perchance we see some trying to carry out those beliefs again we might claim it was all a surprise, a surprise that we couldn't anticipate. We are a smarter people than that and we should not hide behind a shield of ignorance to protect political beliefs that are still on stage.

 

[bripat9643]

Even Franco and Mussolini tried to distance themselves from his type of FASCISM.

Although that is true, I think we also have to be clear that Antonescu was every bit as extreme as Hitler - so Fascism's excesses can not be blamed upon one man or one regime only.

Even though Franco's and Mussolini's right wing extremism lacked the hatred, the intensity and racism of Hitler's, both were undeniably fascists as well.

They are all leftwingers - big government liberals.

End of story.

 

[Political Junky]

Hitler considered himself right wing? Seriously? You making shit up again, or are you just stupid?

As I asked you before - if you CAN discuss topics like a grown up, I suggest you do so.

For all his myriad faults, Hitler had a very clear view of his own ideology and politiics. He knew that he was extreme, knew that he was right wing, and was proud of the fact. His own speeches demonstrate this, as does Mein Kampf and books like Ian Kershaw's 'Hubris' and 'Nemesis'.

"Liberalism is a disease of the mind that weakens and corrupts human beings." Adolf Hitler, 1939

So that's where Michael Savage got his quote ..."Liberalism is a disease".

 

[Saigon]

Even Franco and Mussolini tried to distance themselves from his type of FASCISM.

Although that is true, I think we also have to be clear that Antonescu was every bit as extreme as Hitler - so Fascism's excesses can not be blamed upon one man or one regime only.

Even though Franco's and Mussolini's right wing extremism lacked the hatred, the intensity and racism of Hitler's, both were undeniably fascists as well.

They are all leftwingers - big government liberals.

End of story.

Ummmm...how much do you know about Antonescu, BriPat? Honestly?

Would I be right in suggesting you had never heard his name prior to this?

Really - what a child you are.

 

[bripat9643]

Although that is true, I think we also have to be clear that Antonescu was every bit as extreme as Hitler - so Fascism's excesses can not be blamed upon one man or one regime only.

Even though Franco's and Mussolini's right wing extremism lacked the hatred, the intensity and racism of Hitler's, both were undeniably fascists as well.

They are all leftwingers - big government liberals.

End of story.

Ummmm...how much do you know about Antonescu, BriPat? Honestly?

Would I be right in suggesting you had never heard his name prior to this?

Really - what a child you are.

No you wouldn't. I love the way you're always whining about other forum members not treating you with respect when you're so fond of dishing out the personal attacks.