Hypocrisy Check

[theDoctorisIn]

I think you would have to admit that the Media is guilty of making it appear to be the case. The News Media sells news... typically bad news sells. No one in America gets riled up (and thus watching the news for the next "affront") at seeing Muslims decry terror, but Americans sure get pissed at seeing them celebrate the attacks on 9/11. If seeing Muslims decry 9/11 got people watching the news, you would see it. Since it doesn't sell news, you ain't gonna see it.

Immie

Thousands of Muslims protested in the streets of Tehran AGAINST the attacks, back in 2001.

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Iran's gulf of misunderstanding with US

Yeah, I'm sure that wasn't politically motivated.

Politically motivated? You mean the impromptu candlelight vigils?

Is it really that hard for you to accept that not all Muslims are evil? You're going so far out of your way to keep your blinders on.

 

[ConHog]

Thousands of Muslims protested in the streets of Tehran AGAINST the attacks, back in 2001.

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Iran's gulf of misunderstanding with US

Yeah, I'm sure that wasn't politically motivated.

Politically motivated? You mean the impromptu candlelight vigils?

Is it really that hard for you to accept that not all Muslims are evil? You're going so far out of your way to keep your blinders on.

You do realize that if the Iranian government says jump the Iranians jump.... or die, don't you?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Yeah, I'm sure that wasn't politically motivated.

Politically motivated? You mean the impromptu candlelight vigils?

Is it really that hard for you to accept that not all Muslims are evil? You're going so far out of your way to keep your blinders on.

You do realize that if the Iranian government says jump the Iranians jump.... or die, don't you?

You're really reaching on this one. Why is it so hard to accept that just maybe some Muslims are good people?

 

[sangha]

Yeah, I'm sure that wasn't politically motivated.

Politically motivated? You mean the impromptu candlelight vigils?

Is it really that hard for you to accept that not all Muslims are evil? You're going so far out of your way to keep your blinders on.

You do realize that if the Iranian government says jump the Iranians jump.... or die, don't you?

I bet you think the Iranian protests over the elctions, that almost brought down the govt, were ordered by the govt.

It's like I said; He will say anything to avoid admitting to a mistake. He asked for video and he got video, and then he rejects it. His only use is for mocking

 

[hortysir]

For Americans to rise above it ALL and embrace the idea of mosque near the site of 9/11 would be one of the most stunningly noble gestures in the history of religious freedom and tolerance...

...or, put another way, Americans aren't capable of acting out the ideals their country is founded upon.

He says of a country that just elected a black man with the middle name "Hussein".

Actually most of us didn't consider THAT a big deal. THAT was you people.

Ahhhh......but it was YOU that tried painting with the wide brush.

I merely aimed the bristles in the right direction for you.

*** "aren't capable of acting out the ideals their country is founded upon"***
....that all men are created equal.....

The ideals were acted upon.

Next

 

[ConHog]

Politically motivated? You mean the impromptu candlelight vigils?

Is it really that hard for you to accept that not all Muslims are evil? You're going so far out of your way to keep your blinders on.

You do realize that if the Iranian government says jump the Iranians jump.... or die, don't you?

You're really reaching on this one. Why is it so hard to accept that just maybe some Muslims are good people?

I accept that some Muslims are good people. Why won't you admit that most ME Muslims are BAD people?

 

[sangha]

He says of a country that just elected a black man with the middle name "Hussein".

Actually most of us didn't consider THAT a big deal. THAT was you people.

Ahhhh......but it was YOU that tried painting with the wide brush.

I merely aimed the bristles in the right direction for you.

*** "aren't capable of acting out the ideals their country is founded upon"***
....that all men are created equal.....

The ideals were acted upon.

Not by the people who are calling for ending religious freedom by limiting where religious institutions can be located.

 

[hortysir]

Actually most of us didn't consider THAT a big deal. THAT was you people.

Ahhhh......but it was YOU that tried painting with the wide brush.

I merely aimed the bristles in the right direction for you.

*** "aren't capable of acting out the ideals their country is founded upon"***
....that all men are created equal.....

The ideals were acted upon.

Not by the people who are calling for ending religious freedom by limiting where religious institutions can be located.

The majority of Americans are in favor of squelching religious freedom??

I must have missed that news byte

 

[ConHog]

Actually most of us didn't consider THAT a big deal. THAT was you people.

Ahhhh......but it was YOU that tried painting with the wide brush.

I merely aimed the bristles in the right direction for you.

*** "aren't capable of acting out the ideals their country is founded upon"***
....that all men are created equal.....

The ideals were acted upon.

Not by the people who are calling for ending religious freedom by limiting where religious institutions can be located.

Damn you're a stupid piece of shit. And a liar.

NO ONE is saying anyone should prevent this. We are saying they should CHOOSE of their OWN accord to show some tact and understanding and not build it. We are saying that if they were sincere about wanting to mend fences they would absolutely not do this.

 

[Dr Grump]

You do realize that if the Iranian government says jump the Iranians jump.... or die, don't you?

You're really reaching on this one. Why is it so hard to accept that just maybe some Muslims are good people?

I accept that some Muslims are good people. Why won't you admit that most ME Muslims are BAD people?

Are you serious? How so? More importantly, how can you prove your assertion?

 

[ConHog]

You're really reaching on this one. Why is it so hard to accept that just maybe some Muslims are good people?

I accept that some Muslims are good people. Why won't you admit that most ME Muslims are BAD people?

Are you serious? How so? More importantly, how can you prove your assertion?

Can you offer definitive proof that they are not? No? Well then, I guess all we have is anecdotal evidence which suggests that MOST ME Muslims would like to destroy us.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Just because a person may have "the right" to do something, there are times when consideration for others is the right thing to do. Many people who live in the area lost loved ones on 9/11. They feel like it's another slap in the face to build a mosque on that site. People may criticize them and call them bigots or whatever, but if you've lost someone in a terrorist attack it's kinda difficult to go along with the same religion the attackers murdered in the name of.

If my child was malled and killed by a bear in my front yard, I don't think my family would let me build a bear statue in the front yard.

Haven't you ever noticed how many people can't tell the difference between "I have a right to do this" and "it's a good idea to do this"?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Let's do a little thought experiment.

Let's assume that on 9/11 2001 the terrorist attack did not occur on US soil. Let's say for the sake of argument that the planes were flown into the Petronas Towers in Kuala Lumpur by a cadre of 19 radical Christians from a fringe sect supported by massive wealth and resources who desire to destroy anything that brings wealth to Muslims and Islamic nations. In the attack over 2000 Indonesian Muslims die and it is a great national and international tragedy.

Now, 8 years later, the desire to rebuild the Petronas Towers is underway and out of the blue people realize that there are plans for a Christian Megachurch to be placed on the same location as the Petronas Towers. Of course the plan is being supported by people who don't directly support the terrorists but when you get them in private are ardent believers that what was done was the right thing. Of course in the name of tolerance, diversity and international friedship the project is okayed by the city council of Kuala Lumpur.

Should the church be built on the same site that was destroyed by Christian Radicals in the largest act of hatred towards innocent civilians in history? Are grass root opponents of the mega church Christophobes, or just citizens seeing this as highly inappropriate?

Mosque supporters are encouraged to say why they believe why or why not this is right.

Is the building the church is to be built in damaged during the original attack?

 

[gslack]

Let's do a little thought experiment.

Let's assume that on 9/11 2001 the terrorist attack did not occur on US soil. Let's say for the sake of argument that the planes were flown into the Petronas Towers in Kuala Lumpur by a cadre of 19 radical Christians from a fringe sect supported by massive wealth and resources who desire to destroy anything that brings wealth to Muslims and Islamic nations. In the attack over 2000 Indonesian Muslims die and it is a great national and international tragedy.

Now, 8 years later, the desire to rebuild the Petronas Towers is underway and out of the blue people realize that there are plans for a Christian Megachurch to be placed on the same location as the Petronas Towers. Of course the plan is being supported by people who don't directly support the terrorists but when you get them in private are ardent believers that what was done was the right thing. Of course in the name of tolerance, diversity and international friedship the project is okayed by the city council of Kuala Lumpur.

Should the church be built on the same site that was destroyed by Christian Radicals in the largest act of hatred towards innocent civilians in history? Are grass root opponents of the mega church Christophobes, or just citizens seeing this as highly inappropriate?

Mosque supporters are encouraged to say why they believe why or why not this is right.

Forgoing all the absolutisms and extreme polarized thinking I have read from so many of the more negative responses to this OP. I decided to go straight to the source rather than respond to some one else's response..

I would first ask each and everyone of you who gave such extreme absolutes about this; what is the real purpose of this mosque or center? Is it for the Muslims and Islamic religious people in the area, OR is it an attempt to placate and coddle them? Frankly if I were a Muslim I would find it an insult, and i feel the largest majority would feel the same way. If they truly are as righteous as they claim, they very well should find it an affront to their religion...

I would next ask, why do we feel the need to build such a thing in such a manner and proximity to a place associated so negatively to Islamic religious extremism? It would seem to me placing any religious structure in such a place and manner would be counter productive. Wasn't the entire problem started by fundamental differences in culture and religion? Sure oil and money were a very big part but wasn't the start of it a simple religious view and cultural opposing position? Christianity has been the bane of Islam (and vice-versa) for far longer than Oil was an issue, and both sides enslaved one another at various points in Southern European and Middle Eastern history. So in essence that is the start of all of this...

I cannot understand what one would hope to gain from such a task... Place a Christian or Muslim structure there and you further the problem that brought this about. Any religious structure would be an affront to someones religion, and to try and placate with a structure serving no other purpose than that would be the ultimate insult.. To do so would be calling them (either one) ignorant and a fool...

I wish someone could explain to me when and how a display of another persons religious faith became offensive... How is it offensive to give someone the same respect and decency you would wish to receive in turn regarding your own religion? When did wishing some one good tidings and praise from your preferred religion become an affront to your own faith? Is your faith so fragile you cannot accept the best wishes from another faith without harming your own? If so I believe it is not their faith that is the problem, but your own...

Frankly I care little for any organized religion. I have my own reasons for this, and they will remain personal. Along with my own personal reasons, I have logical, and spiritual ones which prevent me from pursuing a religion of any kind.

However I may be opposed to religion, I am even more opposed to infringing on ones right to their own religion, and their right to express their faith freely and without ridicule or oppression. And most importantly, I do not take offense when I see a Christmas tree or a Prayer rug, nor do I fear either. Because neither is an attack upon me or my rights, but an expression and celebration of their own rights.... And I like that...

That is one of the very principles our founders spoke of longingly so many years ago... Sure actually doing it and its application took a few hundred years, but nothing worth having is easy to attain. And certainly we still struggle with these principles today, but thats what's important. The struggle... For without struggle in all things life loses its value, people lose their worth, and we become filled with the inconsequential and material gain...

We say we want freedom... But we fear others freedom... We say we want equality... But we strive for differential treatment... We say we want religious freedom... But we deny others this same freedom in the fear it will infringe upon our own... Why do we do these things? Perhaps its as simple as forgetting what our freedoms mean on a personal level. Or perhaps, its a symptom of a lifestyle focused on the so-called reward instead of the journey or task to get that reward....

A very wise man once told me, "It's not the story but the telling, just as it's not the life but the living." I sure hope he is right on that because I feel whatever reward there is at the end of life, it will be worthless without a life worth living to give it value...

This has gotten far longer than I intended, so I will end this little rant by saying... If you find a display of religious faith threatening, than your faith is in question not theirs. And if you desire to placate a religion, you will not make new friends of that religion but enemies of it and the others you did not placate to....

 

[L.K.Eder]

we never get to celebrate Christmas in peace, all the bullshitters crawl outta the woodwork with their Holiday Trees, and Winter Solstice crap.

Don't forget the Festivus Poles!

Pretty sure that is currently lodged in Sangha's ass and that's why he/she can't post sensibly.

i hope your vacation will soon be over.

 

[martybegan]

Catholic clergymen raped children. They shouldn't be allowed near children

Muslim extremists killed people at WTC. They shouldn't be allowed near the WTC

Religious criminals should not be allowed near their victims

Plumbers have raped children. No plumbers near schools.

Let me know when the plumbers union starts covering up for pedophiles. Then you'd have a valid point.

The vast majority of catholic priests have never abused a child. You are applying the rule of the exception.

The vast majority of muslims did not fly a plane into the WTC towers. The OP is applying the rule of the exception. Talk to him

You shifted your reasoning when i showed the logical fallacy of your argument. The covering up of certain cases is a different argument.

And on point 2 yes, there was a disconnect on the OP's logic, but he was going with a more symbolic point, one of perception.

And there is a difference between the act and support for the act. While is was only 19 people who performed the act an 9/11 there are a larger number who supported what they did.

 

[martybegan]

Would you buy an al Al-Qaeda made car?
Are you crazy!
Well, would you?
No, they attacked us on 911.
Do you drive a Japanese car?
Yes, why?
They attacked us at Pearl Harbor killing thousands in the Pacific.
That's different.
Why?
Well, it happened long ago.
OK then, will you buy an al Qaeda car in a few years.
Go away.
Why?
Because you are crazy.
But I am only asking questions.
The Japanese are civilized people.
Then why did they kill so many?
Go the F away!

Walks over to an Amish man?
Would you buy an Al-Qaeda made car?
We don't drive cars.
Would you buy an al-Qaeda made carriage.
Yes.
Why?
We are a forgiving people who do not judge all by one.
Thanks.


"In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: it goes on." Robert Frost

The comparison is not really valid. For it to work AQ would have to be a nation state, and would also have to has its ass kicked and surrender unconditonally. Only then would AQ cars be a viable product.

 

[Foxfyre]

In I Corinthians 10:23 (NIV), the Apostle Paul admonished a particular contentious and quarreling community: ""Everything is permissible"--but not everything is beneficial."

Put another way, he is saying that many things are legal that are not constructive.

It is perfectly legal to stand near a Church and chant anti-war slogans while a grieving family holds services for their dead soldier son, but who among us thinks that is the right thing to do?

It would be perfectly legal for a United Daughters of the Confederation, complete with Confederate Flag, to put their meeting hall next to the Black History Museum. But who among us would not see this as incongruous?

To prominently place an Islamic center of any kind near the World Trade Center site is perfectly legal, but is it profitable to do that? Does it help heal wounds? Should those who lost friend, colleagues, family members, children, etc. in the terrible event of 9/11 be asked to be the magnanimous and understanding ones; the ones to reach out a hand of concilation? Or would it be more reasonable to ask the peaceful Muslims to understand that it was hatred cultivated within their own doctrines that resulted in the tragedy and to appreciate that people are still grieving and some are not yet ready to forgive?

Sometimes it is simply decent and profitable to allow people their feelings and not intentionally keep picking at the scabs.

 

[martybegan]

Plumbers have raped children. No plumbers near schools.

The vast majority of catholic priests have never abused a child. You are applying the rule of the exception.

The vast majority of Muslims have never blown up a building.

You are guilty of the same thing.

I havent even taken a position on the mosque/community center thing. Im just pointing out the posters flawed logic.

Personally I can see how people would be pissed at it. And if it does go through they better be sure as hell that some of the more raidcal of their bretheren dont even try to push thier bullshit in the place.

 

[nraforlife]

Let's do a little thought experiment.

Let's assume that on 9/11 2001 the terrorist attack did not occur on US soil. Let's say for the sake of argument that the planes were flown into the Petronas Towers in Kuala Lumpur by a cadre of 19 radical Christians from a fringe sect supported by massive wealth and resources who desire to destroy anything that brings wealth to Muslims and Islamic nations. In the attack over 2000 Indonesian Muslims die and it is a great national and international tragedy.

Now, 8 years later, the desire to rebuild the Petronas Towers is underway and out of the blue people realize that there are plans for a Christian Megachurch to be placed on the same location as the Petronas Towers. Of course the plan is being supported by people who don't directly support the terrorists but when you get them in private are ardent believers that what was done was the right thing. Of course in the name of tolerance, diversity and international friedship the project is okayed by the city council of Kuala Lumpur.

Should the church be built on the same site that was destroyed by Christian Radicals in the largest act of hatred towards innocent civilians in history? Are grass root opponents of the mega church Christophobes, or just citizens seeing this as highly inappropriate?

Mosque supporters are encouraged to say why they believe why or why not this is right.

Bad comparison- had such an event occurred the Christians of Malaysia would have been exterminated in 2001.