HYPOCRISY, Thy Name Is 'DEMOCRAT': Democrats Leave Capitol To March For Gun Control With Students

[BULLDOG]

And the majority of accidental discharges are done by people who shouldn't have firearms in the first place. They rarely ever happen to someone who is part of the "gun culture" or is a member of the NRA because most of those individuals have pretty much memorized the four basic rules of firearms safety.

If you know those rules and live by them, you'll never ever have an accidental discharge.

If you handle guns long enough, you will probably get a BANG when you didn’t expect one.

Why would that happen if you faithfully observe the four basic rules of firearms safety?

1. There is no such thing as an "unloaded" firearm. Treat every firearm as if it were loaded and do a visual inspection of the chamber. Even if someone else checked it first and hands it to you, check to make sure there's nothing in the chamber.

2. Never point a firearm at anything you don't intend to destroy. That's called "muzzle discipline". You'd be surprised how many times I've had to chew some idiot Fudd's ass out at the range for not paying attention and sweeping me with his muzzle. And believe me: If you accidentally sweep me with your muzzle, you're going to have a problem.

3. Keep your finger off the trigger until the sights are on the target. Simple.

4. Be sure of not only what you're shooting at, but what's behind your target. Bullets can travel up to a couple miles, depending on the caliber.

Those were from memory, I did not look them up. Anyone who considers themselves part of the "gun culture" has already memorized those four basic rules. Those are the rules we live by, and those are the rules that are permanently tattooed in out brain..

Anyone else who happens to own a firearm, is a casual shooter, or just a hunter, should memorize them so they don't accidentally do something stupid.

I will also add this: Always wear eye and ear protection when shooting, make sure you are familiar with your weapon and keep it cleaned, lubricated, and well-maintained, and use the right caliber ammunition that is clean and free of dirt and corrosion. Also when dealing with firearms that have magazines, remove the magazine first, then open the action to check it. You'd be surprised how many idiots open the action first, then accidentally chamber a round from the magazine before removing it. Tubular magazines on .22 semi-auto rifles are notorious for having one round stuck in the end of the tubular mag, after you dump them out.

Then there are a whole shitload of rules to go by if you also do any reloading or manufacturing of your own ammunition, but I won't cover those.

The same reason "accidents" happen in every other thing you might do. People get complacent. People think they are so well versed and experienced till they are able to skip some of the rules. Safety rules are just for the noobs, not for an experienced person. People are idiots.

And? What's your point?

You asked the question
"Why would that happen if you faithfully observe the four basic rules of firearms safety?"
and I gave you an answer.

 

[JGalt]

And the majority of accidental discharges are done by people who shouldn't have firearms in the first place. They rarely ever happen to someone who is part of the "gun culture" or is a member of the NRA because most of those individuals have pretty much memorized the four basic rules of firearms safety.

If you know those rules and live by them, you'll never ever have an accidental discharge.

If you handle guns long enough, you will probably get a BANG when you didn’t expect one.

Why would that happen if you faithfully observe the four basic rules of firearms safety?

1. There is no such thing as an "unloaded" firearm. Treat every firearm as if it were loaded and do a visual inspection of the chamber. Even if someone else checked it first and hands it to you, check to make sure there's nothing in the chamber.

2. Never point a firearm at anything you don't intend to destroy. That's called "muzzle discipline". You'd be surprised how many times I've had to chew some idiot Fudd's ass out at the range for not paying attention and sweeping me with his muzzle. And believe me: If you accidentally sweep me with your muzzle, you're going to have a problem.

3. Keep your finger off the trigger until the sights are on the target. Simple.

4. Be sure of not only what you're shooting at, but what's behind your target. Bullets can travel up to a couple miles, depending on the caliber.

Those were from memory, I did not look them up. Anyone who considers themselves part of the "gun culture" has already memorized those four basic rules. Those are the rules we live by, and those are the rules that are permanently tattooed in out brain..

Anyone else who happens to own a firearm, is a casual shooter, or just a hunter, should memorize them so they don't accidentally do something stupid.

I will also add this: Always wear eye and ear protection when shooting, make sure you are familiar with your weapon and keep it cleaned, lubricated, and well-maintained, and use the right caliber ammunition that is clean and free of dirt and corrosion. Also when dealing with firearms that have magazines, remove the magazine first, then open the action to check it. You'd be surprised how many idiots open the action first, then accidentally chamber a round from the magazine before removing it. Tubular magazines on .22 semi-auto rifles are notorious for having one round stuck in the end of the tubular mag, after you dump them out.

Then there are a whole shitload of rules to go by if you also do any reloading or manufacturing of your own ammunition, but I won't cover those.

The same reason "accidents" happen in every other thing you might do. People get complacent. People think they are so well versed and experienced till they are able to skip some of the rules. Safety rules are just for the noobs, not for an experienced person. People are idiots.

And? What's your point?

You asked the question
"Why would that happen if you faithfully observe the four basic rules of firearms safety?"
and I gave you an answer.

I see. Well if it's such a big scary world out there, better you stay in your safe space and leave the world to those who are bolder that you are.

You can't isolate yourself from bad things happening, no matter how hard you try.

 

[BULLDOG]

If you handle guns long enough, you will probably get a BANG when you didn’t expect one.

Why would that happen if you faithfully observe the four basic rules of firearms safety?

1. There is no such thing as an "unloaded" firearm. Treat every firearm as if it were loaded and do a visual inspection of the chamber. Even if someone else checked it first and hands it to you, check to make sure there's nothing in the chamber.

2. Never point a firearm at anything you don't intend to destroy. That's called "muzzle discipline". You'd be surprised how many times I've had to chew some idiot Fudd's ass out at the range for not paying attention and sweeping me with his muzzle. And believe me: If you accidentally sweep me with your muzzle, you're going to have a problem.

3. Keep your finger off the trigger until the sights are on the target. Simple.

4. Be sure of not only what you're shooting at, but what's behind your target. Bullets can travel up to a couple miles, depending on the caliber.

Those were from memory, I did not look them up. Anyone who considers themselves part of the "gun culture" has already memorized those four basic rules. Those are the rules we live by, and those are the rules that are permanently tattooed in out brain..

Anyone else who happens to own a firearm, is a casual shooter, or just a hunter, should memorize them so they don't accidentally do something stupid.

I will also add this: Always wear eye and ear protection when shooting, make sure you are familiar with your weapon and keep it cleaned, lubricated, and well-maintained, and use the right caliber ammunition that is clean and free of dirt and corrosion. Also when dealing with firearms that have magazines, remove the magazine first, then open the action to check it. You'd be surprised how many idiots open the action first, then accidentally chamber a round from the magazine before removing it. Tubular magazines on .22 semi-auto rifles are notorious for having one round stuck in the end of the tubular mag, after you dump them out.

Then there are a whole shitload of rules to go by if you also do any reloading or manufacturing of your own ammunition, but I won't cover those.

The same reason "accidents" happen in every other thing you might do. People get complacent. People think they are so well versed and experienced till they are able to skip some of the rules. Safety rules are just for the noobs, not for an experienced person. People are idiots.

And? What's your point?

You asked the question
"Why would that happen if you faithfully observe the four basic rules of firearms safety?"
and I gave you an answer.

I see. Well if it's such a big scary world out there, better you stay in your safe space and leave the world to those who are bolder that you are.

You can't isolate yourself from bad things happening, no matter how hard you try.

It's a matter of reducing those bad things as much as possible. I don't think the majority of citizens see being prepared for armed combat against our own military as a pressing priority. Do you?

 

[toobfreak]

WAIT . . . . WAIT! Tell me again------ how is it again that a bunch of people whose job it is to write the nation's laws on gun control leave work and go off marching in protest of the very gun laws they've written or have failed to write, all the while acting before the cameras as though they are somehow victims of and separate from the results of their own incompetency?

Isn't that a bit like going on a march protesting unfair federal taxation and turning around and finding a member of the Congress standing beside you, fist raised in solidarity?

 

[Humorme]

Post # 344

"I know they had no idea what a couple of hundred years would change."

Sounds like you meant the founders - given the context of the conversation. BTW, when the Brits were fighting Americans, they were expected to be able to deliver four rounds minute of aimed fire. The Brown Bess, carried by the colonists, had a rate of fire of about 3 rounds per minute.

It seemed to me that the argument being made was that the founders could not fathom the capabilities of today's firearms. I found that to be be false. For example:

The Girandoni Air Rifle fired a .46 caliber projectile and had a 20-round magazine. It was invented in 1779 and was used by the Lewis and Clark expedition. AND, some of the weapons used by the founders used a .75 caliber projectile. In modern times, the maximum caliber a civilian can own is a .50 caliber.

If you meant something else, my bad.

Well, yes. I did mean something else. A bigger bullet doesn't make a more effective gun, and I don't see stopping every so often to pump 1500 strokes to fill the air reservoir as a good option for someone in combat.

My point is the founders knew history and had a good concept of the future of firearms. They were visionaries, but if I understand you correctly, they were flaming idiots - OR maybe YOU cannot look into the future and see what modern miracles of science are right around the corner?

My thoughts are that the founders were not as limited in their understanding of history and science as you have me believe.

I believe they were somewhere between the extremes that mention. They were sharp, but they didn't have a crystal ball that showed them the future. There was no way they could know our capabilities now, any more then we know what it will be 200 years from now.

Yes, we DO know the capabilities of the future. So, are we to be defeatist about it or plan for the future?

Stephen Hawkings final prediction was:

"Famed physicist Stephen Hawking died Tuesday at the age of 76, his family confirmed. Renowned for his scientific work in a number of areas, Hawking left behind a legacy that encompassed a variety of subjects, expounding on everything from the secrets of the universe to artificial intelligence.

Hawking often shared his predictions about the future, discussing the fate of humanity and the human race.

Here are some of Hawking’s most interesting theories.

Artificial Intelligence
Hawking warned about the potential for robots to outperform humans, effectively making the human race obsolete.“I fear AI may replace humans altogether,” he told Wired in November. “If people design computer viruses, someone will design AI that improves and replicates itself. This will be a new form of life that outperforms humans.” "

Stephen Hawking's Most Notable Predictions

Of course the founders had some inkling about the possibilities about the future based on the past. I want you to remember that in the 1200s Genghis was busy taking over half the world. So, they understood both history and political philosophies.

It does not stand to reason that they would handicap us and make us unable to stand against tyrannical governments. And what you're arguing is way out of touch with reality.

Adolph Hitler, sitting around a table having beer with his buddies, began an effort with a little country about the size of Texas and damn near took over the world.

Going back earlier, Jesus had but twelve apostles and he changed the world.

The point is, modern militaries have weaponry that is awesome by any standard. But the difference in capabilities is not any greater than the differences between what we have today compared to what they have.

If they nuke you, you're dead anyway. If any military, including our own, plans a full on occupation, they cannot destroy neighborhoods without killing their own. So, it boils down to tanks against civilians - and the have to come out some time plus the fact that our armed citizenry far outnumbers ANY military on earth... just as the founders intended.

Then you're back down to the Right of the People. It cannot be infringed.

In the 60s did you know cassette tapes would soon be obsolete, or that the internet would soon connect everybody in the world with everybody else? Did you know that old rotary dial telephone would be replaced with a package the size of a cigarette pack that didn't need a wired connection, and would have more computing power than the manned rocket that first went to the moon?

On some of it I did. Admittedly, I had an advantage though. My uncle was working on the earliest stages of computers with IBM before they actually became IBM. I can barely remember that as I was maybe 5 or so at the time.

Rotary phones? I read a science fiction book when I was maybe 8 and one guy had a phone he put in his lunchbox.

Paul Otlet, born in 1868 envisioned the computer era in the 1930s:

"Decades before even the first microchip, Otlet was calling for screens at everyone's desk and the creation of a "réseau mondial," a worldwide network. Or, yes, a web.

"Everything in the universe, and everything of man, would be registered at a distance as it was produced," Otlet wrote in 1934, imaging a sort of steampunk/Gilliam's Brazil proto-internet, made of index cards, and microfiche. "In this way a moving image of the world will be established, a true mirror of his memory. From a distance, everyone will be able to read text, enlarged and limited to the desired subject, projected on an individual screen. In this way, everyone from his armchair will be able to contemplate creation, in whole or in certain parts."

The Man Who Envisioned the Internet Before Computers, Without Computers

And what about Charles Babbage?

Either way, it is too late to turn back the clock on technology

When you start picking away at what made America great and incrementally removing it (i.e. unalienable Rights) you begin attacking ALL the fundamental Rights our forefathers fought, bled, and died securing.

Lastly, you have no told me why we cannot resolve this issue in the same manner that we approach the issue of DUIs with.

 

[JGalt]

Why would that happen if you faithfully observe the four basic rules of firearms safety?

1. There is no such thing as an "unloaded" firearm. Treat every firearm as if it were loaded and do a visual inspection of the chamber. Even if someone else checked it first and hands it to you, check to make sure there's nothing in the chamber.

2. Never point a firearm at anything you don't intend to destroy. That's called "muzzle discipline". You'd be surprised how many times I've had to chew some idiot Fudd's ass out at the range for not paying attention and sweeping me with his muzzle. And believe me: If you accidentally sweep me with your muzzle, you're going to have a problem.

3. Keep your finger off the trigger until the sights are on the target. Simple.

4. Be sure of not only what you're shooting at, but what's behind your target. Bullets can travel up to a couple miles, depending on the caliber.

Those were from memory, I did not look them up. Anyone who considers themselves part of the "gun culture" has already memorized those four basic rules. Those are the rules we live by, and those are the rules that are permanently tattooed in out brain..

Anyone else who happens to own a firearm, is a casual shooter, or just a hunter, should memorize them so they don't accidentally do something stupid.

I will also add this: Always wear eye and ear protection when shooting, make sure you are familiar with your weapon and keep it cleaned, lubricated, and well-maintained, and use the right caliber ammunition that is clean and free of dirt and corrosion. Also when dealing with firearms that have magazines, remove the magazine first, then open the action to check it. You'd be surprised how many idiots open the action first, then accidentally chamber a round from the magazine before removing it. Tubular magazines on .22 semi-auto rifles are notorious for having one round stuck in the end of the tubular mag, after you dump them out.

Then there are a whole shitload of rules to go by if you also do any reloading or manufacturing of your own ammunition, but I won't cover those.

The same reason "accidents" happen in every other thing you might do. People get complacent. People think they are so well versed and experienced till they are able to skip some of the rules. Safety rules are just for the noobs, not for an experienced person. People are idiots.

And? What's your point?

You asked the question
"Why would that happen if you faithfully observe the four basic rules of firearms safety?"
and I gave you an answer.

I see. Well if it's such a big scary world out there, better you stay in your safe space and leave the world to those who are bolder that you are.

You can't isolate yourself from bad things happening, no matter how hard you try.

It's a matter of reducing those bad things as much as possible. I don't think the majority of citizens see being prepared for armed combat against our own military as a pressing priority. Do you?

Not really. Having served with both, I have no problem with either the military or law-enforcement. That's not the purpose of most militias, as many members of them have had either prior or current experience with them.

 

[toobfreak]

Why would that happen if you faithfully observe the four basic rules of firearms safety?

1. There is no such thing as an "unloaded" firearm. Treat every firearm as if it were loaded and do a visual inspection of the chamber. Even if someone else checked it first and hands it to you, check to make sure there's nothing in the chamber.

2. Never point a firearm at anything you don't intend to destroy. That's called "muzzle discipline". You'd be surprised how many times I've had to chew some idiot Fudd's ass out at the range for not paying attention and sweeping me with his muzzle. And believe me: If you accidentally sweep me with your muzzle, you're going to have a problem.

3. Keep your finger off the trigger until the sights are on the target. Simple.

4. Be sure of not only what you're shooting at, but what's behind your target. Bullets can travel up to a couple miles, depending on the caliber.

Those were from memory, I did not look them up. Anyone who considers themselves part of the "gun culture" has already memorized those four basic rules. Those are the rules we live by, and those are the rules that are permanently tattooed in out brain..

Anyone else who happens to own a firearm, is a casual shooter, or just a hunter, should memorize them so they don't accidentally do something stupid.

I will also add this: Always wear eye and ear protection when shooting, make sure you are familiar with your weapon and keep it cleaned, lubricated, and well-maintained, and use the right caliber ammunition that is clean and free of dirt and corrosion. Also when dealing with firearms that have magazines, remove the magazine first, then open the action to check it. You'd be surprised how many idiots open the action first, then accidentally chamber a round from the magazine before removing it. Tubular magazines on .22 semi-auto rifles are notorious for having one round stuck in the end of the tubular mag, after you dump them out.

Then there are a whole shitload of rules to go by if you also do any reloading or manufacturing of your own ammunition, but I won't cover those.

The same reason "accidents" happen in every other thing you might do. People get complacent. People think they are so well versed and experienced till they are able to skip some of the rules. Safety rules are just for the noobs, not for an experienced person. People are idiots.

And? What's your point?

You asked the question
"Why would that happen if you faithfully observe the four basic rules of firearms safety?"
and I gave you an answer.

I see. Well if it's such a big scary world out there, better you stay in your safe space and leave the world to those who are bolder that you are.

You can't isolate yourself from bad things happening, no matter how hard you try.

It's a matter of reducing those bad things as much as possible. I don't think the majority of citizens see being prepared for armed combat against our own military as a pressing priority. Do you?

Bull, dog! Park your black and white reasoning on your own front porch. Every person believing in the 2nd amendment (how many other amendments to the US Constitution must be "believed" in?) does not seek to do combat with a squadron of Navy Seals! Your first wrong assumption is that making it impossible for people to buy and own guns (necessarily taking them out of people's hands to effect a significant real change in the number of available firearms) is a step in "reducing those bad things as much as possible."

Secondly, you miss the reason why the NRA IS so powerful------- its one of the the largest private organizations in the country with MILLIONS of members. And about 1 out of every four people own firearms with a total estimate approaching nearly 300,000,000 guns owned in the USA. People are not giving up their guns, no one is going to take them---- want to try and you'll see a war that'll make the Civil War look like a party. Worse, the group of people wanting to do this are the MOST UNARMED!

Lastly, the problem never has been about guns, it is about the efforts to eliminate them, one little "gun-free-zone" at a time, and THESE PLACES are always the ones hit with attacks by the crazies. How many police barracks have been hit by a mass killing this year? Last? The last ten years? Ever?

 

[BULLDOG]

The same reason "accidents" happen in every other thing you might do. People get complacent. People think they are so well versed and experienced till they are able to skip some of the rules. Safety rules are just for the noobs, not for an experienced person. People are idiots.

And? What's your point?

You asked the question
"Why would that happen if you faithfully observe the four basic rules of firearms safety?"
and I gave you an answer.

I see. Well if it's such a big scary world out there, better you stay in your safe space and leave the world to those who are bolder that you are.

You can't isolate yourself from bad things happening, no matter how hard you try.

It's a matter of reducing those bad things as much as possible. I don't think the majority of citizens see being prepared for armed combat against our own military as a pressing priority. Do you?

Not really. Having served with both, I have no problem with either the military or law-enforcement. That's not the purpose of most militias, as many members of them have had either prior or current experience with them.

Gun nuts make all kinds of claims for the purpose of their so called militias. That was the last one I heard. Most seem to bounce back and forth between preparing for a civil war, and being prepared to take over when the military has been defeated by some foreign power. Both ridiculous flights of fancy.

 

[BULLDOG]

The same reason "accidents" happen in every other thing you might do. People get complacent. People think they are so well versed and experienced till they are able to skip some of the rules. Safety rules are just for the noobs, not for an experienced person. People are idiots.

And? What's your point?

You asked the question
"Why would that happen if you faithfully observe the four basic rules of firearms safety?"
and I gave you an answer.

I see. Well if it's such a big scary world out there, better you stay in your safe space and leave the world to those who are bolder that you are.

You can't isolate yourself from bad things happening, no matter how hard you try.

It's a matter of reducing those bad things as much as possible. I don't think the majority of citizens see being prepared for armed combat against our own military as a pressing priority. Do you?

Bull, dog! Park your black and white reasoning on your own front porch. Every person believing in the 2nd amendment (how many other amendments to the US Constitution must be "believed" in?) does not seek to do combat with a squadron of Navy Seals! Your first wrong assumption is that making it impossible for people to buy and own guns (necessarily taking them out of people's hands to effect a significant real change in the number of available firearms) is a step in "reducing those bad things as much as possible."

Secondly, you miss the reason why the NRA IS so powerful------- its one of the the largest private organizations in the country with MILLIONS of members. And about 1 out of every four people own firearms with a total estimate approaching nearly 300,000,000 guns owned in the USA. People are not giving up their guns, no one is going to take them---- want to try and you'll see a war that'll make the Civil War look like a party. Worse, the group of people wanting to do this are the MOST UNARMED!

Lastly, the problem never has been about guns, it is about the efforts to eliminate them, one little "gun-free-zone" at a time, and THESE PLACES are always the ones hit with attacks by the crazies. How many police barracks have been hit by a mass killing this year? Last? The last ten years? Ever?

You mistakenly believe most gun owners fall in the same category as the NRA and their gun nut drones. We do not.

 

[BULLDOG]

Well, yes. I did mean something else. A bigger bullet doesn't make a more effective gun, and I don't see stopping every so often to pump 1500 strokes to fill the air reservoir as a good option for someone in combat.

My point is the founders knew history and had a good concept of the future of firearms. They were visionaries, but if I understand you correctly, they were flaming idiots - OR maybe YOU cannot look into the future and see what modern miracles of science are right around the corner?

My thoughts are that the founders were not as limited in their understanding of history and science as you have me believe.

I believe they were somewhere between the extremes that mention. They were sharp, but they didn't have a crystal ball that showed them the future. There was no way they could know our capabilities now, any more then we know what it will be 200 years from now.

Yes, we DO know the capabilities of the future. So, are we to be defeatist about it or plan for the future?

Stephen Hawkings final prediction was:

"Famed physicist Stephen Hawking died Tuesday at the age of 76, his family confirmed. Renowned for his scientific work in a number of areas, Hawking left behind a legacy that encompassed a variety of subjects, expounding on everything from the secrets of the universe to artificial intelligence.

Hawking often shared his predictions about the future, discussing the fate of humanity and the human race.

Here are some of Hawking’s most interesting theories.

Artificial Intelligence
Hawking warned about the potential for robots to outperform humans, effectively making the human race obsolete.“I fear AI may replace humans altogether,” he told Wired in November. “If people design computer viruses, someone will design AI that improves and replicates itself. This will be a new form of life that outperforms humans.” "

Stephen Hawking's Most Notable Predictions

Of course the founders had some inkling about the possibilities about the future based on the past. I want you to remember that in the 1200s Genghis was busy taking over half the world. So, they understood both history and political philosophies.

It does not stand to reason that they would handicap us and make us unable to stand against tyrannical governments. And what you're arguing is way out of touch with reality.

Adolph Hitler, sitting around a table having beer with his buddies, began an effort with a little country about the size of Texas and damn near took over the world.

Going back earlier, Jesus had but twelve apostles and he changed the world.

The point is, modern militaries have weaponry that is awesome by any standard. But the difference in capabilities is not any greater than the differences between what we have today compared to what they have.

If they nuke you, you're dead anyway. If any military, including our own, plans a full on occupation, they cannot destroy neighborhoods without killing their own. So, it boils down to tanks against civilians - and the have to come out some time plus the fact that our armed citizenry far outnumbers ANY military on earth... just as the founders intended.

Then you're back down to the Right of the People. It cannot be infringed.

In the 60s did you know cassette tapes would soon be obsolete, or that the internet would soon connect everybody in the world with everybody else? Did you know that old rotary dial telephone would be replaced with a package the size of a cigarette pack that didn't need a wired connection, and would have more computing power than the manned rocket that first went to the moon?

On some of it I did. Admittedly, I had an advantage though. My uncle was working on the earliest stages of computers with IBM before they actually became IBM. I can barely remember that as I was maybe 5 or so at the time.

Rotary phones? I read a science fiction book when I was maybe 8 and one guy had a phone he put in his lunchbox.

Paul Otlet, born in 1868 envisioned the computer era in the 1930s:

"Decades before even the first microchip, Otlet was calling for screens at everyone's desk and the creation of a "réseau mondial," a worldwide network. Or, yes, a web.

"Everything in the universe, and everything of man, would be registered at a distance as it was produced," Otlet wrote in 1934, imaging a sort of steampunk/Gilliam's Brazil proto-internet, made of index cards, and microfiche. "In this way a moving image of the world will be established, a true mirror of his memory. From a distance, everyone will be able to read text, enlarged and limited to the desired subject, projected on an individual screen. In this way, everyone from his armchair will be able to contemplate creation, in whole or in certain parts."

The Man Who Envisioned the Internet Before Computers, Without Computers

And what about Charles Babbage?

Either way, it is too late to turn back the clock on technology

When you start picking away at what made America great and incrementally removing it (i.e. unalienable Rights) you begin attacking ALL the fundamental Rights our forefathers fought, bled, and died securing.

Lastly, you have no told me why we cannot resolve this issue in the same manner that we approach the issue of DUIs with.

Only some of it? So you admit you didn't know how things would change.

 

[toobfreak]

You mistakenly believe most gun owners fall in the same category as the NRA and their gun nut drones. We do not.

I'm an NRA Life Member, my best friend a Benefactor, and neither of us are "gun nut drones." We're two of the nicest people you'd ever want to meet. It isn't crazy to take your right to bear arms seriously. Problem is too many Americans have lived too long in peacetime and have only known life in a benign oligarchy. The Jews can tell you how bad things can get overnight when a government suddenly decides you are a "threat to the state" and takes all your guns away, and with that, all possibility to resist tyranny.

 

[JGalt]

And? What's your point?

You asked the question
"Why would that happen if you faithfully observe the four basic rules of firearms safety?"
and I gave you an answer.

I see. Well if it's such a big scary world out there, better you stay in your safe space and leave the world to those who are bolder that you are.

You can't isolate yourself from bad things happening, no matter how hard you try.

It's a matter of reducing those bad things as much as possible. I don't think the majority of citizens see being prepared for armed combat against our own military as a pressing priority. Do you?

Not really. Having served with both, I have no problem with either the military or law-enforcement. That's not the purpose of most militias, as many members of them have had either prior or current experience with them.

Gun nuts make all kinds of claims for the purpose of their so called militias. That was the last one I heard. Most seem to bounce back and forth between preparing for a civil war, and being prepared to take over when the military has been defeated by some foreign power. Both ridiculous flights of fancy.

Really? Why wouldn't we prepare for a civil war? It was after all a Bernie Sanders supporter who fired the first shot on that baseball field. You probably aren't aware of it, but there are even factions of Antifa who have armed themselves.

Even if it didn't come to that, all it would take is one cataclysmic event to throw this country into complete chaos. I don't know about you, but the thought of roving gangs of desperate hungry people streaming out of the cities, who are willing to kill others for their food and supplies, doesn't sound like much fun to me.

And don't say that it couldn't happen. We are a large country with a lot of resources, but more fragile that than you know. What if the Russians or Chinese hacked into out electrical grid and shut it down? What if we had an EMP attack? Being unprepared, people living in high-population areas would start dropping like flies within a couple weeks.

Even more reason to arm yourself.

 

[BULLDOG]

You mistakenly believe most gun owners fall in the same category as the NRA and their gun nut drones. We do not.

I'm an NRA Life Member, my best friend a Benefactor, and neither of us are "gun nut drones." We're two of the nicest people you'd ever want to meet. It isn't crazy to take your right to bear arms seriously. Problem is too many Americans have lived too long in peacetime and have only known life in a benign oligarchy. The Jews can tell you how bad things can get overnight when a government suddenly decides you are a "threat to the state" and takes all your guns away, and with that, all possibility to resist tyranny.

View attachment 183094 View attachment 183095

So you really expect the US to experience the same thing the Jews did at the hand of the Nazis? That's nuts.

 

[BULLDOG]

You asked the question
"Why would that happen if you faithfully observe the four basic rules of firearms safety?"
and I gave you an answer.

I see. Well if it's such a big scary world out there, better you stay in your safe space and leave the world to those who are bolder that you are.

You can't isolate yourself from bad things happening, no matter how hard you try.

It's a matter of reducing those bad things as much as possible. I don't think the majority of citizens see being prepared for armed combat against our own military as a pressing priority. Do you?

Not really. Having served with both, I have no problem with either the military or law-enforcement. That's not the purpose of most militias, as many members of them have had either prior or current experience with them.

Gun nuts make all kinds of claims for the purpose of their so called militias. That was the last one I heard. Most seem to bounce back and forth between preparing for a civil war, and being prepared to take over when the military has been defeated by some foreign power. Both ridiculous flights of fancy.

Really? Why wouldn't we prepare for a civil war? It was after all a Bernie Sanders supporter who fired the first shot on that baseball field. You probably aren't aware of it, but there are even factions of Antifa who have armed themselves.

Even if it didn't come to that, all it would take is one cataclysmic event to throw this country into complete chaos. I don't know about you, but the thought of roving gangs of desperate hungry people streaming out of the cities, who are willing to kill others for their food and supplies, doesn't sound like much fun to me.

And don't say that it couldn't happen. We are a large country with a lot of resources, but more fragile that than you know. What if the Russians or Chinese hacked into out electrical grid and shut it down? What if we had an EMP attack? Being unprepared, people living in high-population areas would start dropping like flies within a couple weeks.

Even more reason to arm yourself.

Right. You should stock your compound and keep a good supply if tinfoil handy. Sounds like you will need it.

 

[toobfreak]

You mistakenly believe most gun owners fall in the same category as the NRA and their gun nut drones. We do not.

I'm an NRA Life Member, my best friend a Benefactor, and neither of us are "gun nut drones." We're two of the nicest people you'd ever want to meet. It isn't crazy to take your right to bear arms seriously. Problem is too many Americans have lived too long in peacetime and have only known life in a benign oligarchy. The Jews can tell you how bad things can get overnight when a government suddenly decides you are a "threat to the state" and takes all your guns away, and with that, all possibility to resist tyranny.

View attachment 183094 View attachment 183095

So you really expect the US to experience the same thing the Jews did at the hand of the Nazis? That's nuts.

I never said I expected that! Don't act crazy by putting words in other people's mouths. But I bet neither did the Jews before Hitler took power. All I'm saying is that chance favors the prepared. Better to be prepared and never need it than to NEED IT and not be prepared.

Russia has made no threat to attack us, yet, is it crazy that we have troops and missiles all across the Canadian Shield just in case?

Never bet your life that what hasn't happened CAN'T happen or that just because you haven't see it means it doesn't exist.

 

[BULLDOG]

You mistakenly believe most gun owners fall in the same category as the NRA and their gun nut drones. We do not.

I'm an NRA Life Member, my best friend a Benefactor, and neither of us are "gun nut drones." We're two of the nicest people you'd ever want to meet. It isn't crazy to take your right to bear arms seriously. Problem is too many Americans have lived too long in peacetime and have only known life in a benign oligarchy. The Jews can tell you how bad things can get overnight when a government suddenly decides you are a "threat to the state" and takes all your guns away, and with that, all possibility to resist tyranny.

View attachment 183094 View attachment 183095

So you really expect the US to experience the same thing the Jews did at the hand of the Nazis? That's nuts.

I never said I expected that! Don't act crazy by putting words in other people's mouths. But I bet neither did the Jews before Hitler took power. All I'm saying is that chance favors the prepared. Better to be prepared and never need it than to NEED IT and not be prepared.

Never bet your life that what hasn't happened CAN'T happen or that just because you haven't see it means it doesn't exist.

View attachment 183096

Of course you never said that. You just posted pictures of the atrocities the Jews faced, and said you needed to be prepared for that. You even persist in saying it CAN happen in your most recent post. What a weasel post.

 

[JGalt]

I see. Well if it's such a big scary world out there, better you stay in your safe space and leave the world to those who are bolder that you are.

You can't isolate yourself from bad things happening, no matter how hard you try.

It's a matter of reducing those bad things as much as possible. I don't think the majority of citizens see being prepared for armed combat against our own military as a pressing priority. Do you?

Not really. Having served with both, I have no problem with either the military or law-enforcement. That's not the purpose of most militias, as many members of them have had either prior or current experience with them.

Gun nuts make all kinds of claims for the purpose of their so called militias. That was the last one I heard. Most seem to bounce back and forth between preparing for a civil war, and being prepared to take over when the military has been defeated by some foreign power. Both ridiculous flights of fancy.

Really? Why wouldn't we prepare for a civil war? It was after all a Bernie Sanders supporter who fired the first shot on that baseball field. You probably aren't aware of it, but there are even factions of Antifa who have armed themselves.

Even if it didn't come to that, all it would take is one cataclysmic event to throw this country into complete chaos. I don't know about you, but the thought of roving gangs of desperate hungry people streaming out of the cities, who are willing to kill others for their food and supplies, doesn't sound like much fun to me.

And don't say that it couldn't happen. We are a large country with a lot of resources, but more fragile that than you know. What if the Russians or Chinese hacked into out electrical grid and shut it down? What if we had an EMP attack? Being unprepared, people living in high-population areas would start dropping like flies within a couple weeks.

Even more reason to arm yourself.

Right. You should stock your compound and keep a good supply if tinfoil handy. Sounds like you will need it.

I'm just throwing those scenarios out there. If you don't care what happens to you and your family, why do you have a spare tire on your car? Why car insurance? Why life and home insurance? Why a savings account? Do you have only one pair of underwear or one pair of shoes?

Even if it didn't come to that, we all have the responsibility for our own personal safely and the safety of our loved ones. To be unprepared is thoughtless and imprudent.

I live 12 miles out of a small town. So what do I do when I hear one of my dog's low growl and a car with three or four suspicious people pulls up to the house and tries to come through the door? Call the police and wait 15 minutes? Go outside, sit down with them around a campfire making Smores and singing a round of "Kumbaya"?

Is that your preferred method? If so, that would be extreme stupidity.

 

[Humorme]

My point is the founders knew history and had a good concept of the future of firearms. They were visionaries, but if I understand you correctly, they were flaming idiots - OR maybe YOU cannot look into the future and see what modern miracles of science are right around the corner?

My thoughts are that the founders were not as limited in their understanding of history and science as you have me believe.

I believe they were somewhere between the extremes that mention. They were sharp, but they didn't have a crystal ball that showed them the future. There was no way they could know our capabilities now, any more then we know what it will be 200 years from now.

Yes, we DO know the capabilities of the future. So, are we to be defeatist about it or plan for the future?

Stephen Hawkings final prediction was:

"Famed physicist Stephen Hawking died Tuesday at the age of 76, his family confirmed. Renowned for his scientific work in a number of areas, Hawking left behind a legacy that encompassed a variety of subjects, expounding on everything from the secrets of the universe to artificial intelligence.

Hawking often shared his predictions about the future, discussing the fate of humanity and the human race.

Here are some of Hawking’s most interesting theories.

Artificial Intelligence
Hawking warned about the potential for robots to outperform humans, effectively making the human race obsolete.“I fear AI may replace humans altogether,” he told Wired in November. “If people design computer viruses, someone will design AI that improves and replicates itself. This will be a new form of life that outperforms humans.” "

Stephen Hawking's Most Notable Predictions

Of course the founders had some inkling about the possibilities about the future based on the past. I want you to remember that in the 1200s Genghis was busy taking over half the world. So, they understood both history and political philosophies.

It does not stand to reason that they would handicap us and make us unable to stand against tyrannical governments. And what you're arguing is way out of touch with reality.

Adolph Hitler, sitting around a table having beer with his buddies, began an effort with a little country about the size of Texas and damn near took over the world.

Going back earlier, Jesus had but twelve apostles and he changed the world.

The point is, modern militaries have weaponry that is awesome by any standard. But the difference in capabilities is not any greater than the differences between what we have today compared to what they have.

If they nuke you, you're dead anyway. If any military, including our own, plans a full on occupation, they cannot destroy neighborhoods without killing their own. So, it boils down to tanks against civilians - and the have to come out some time plus the fact that our armed citizenry far outnumbers ANY military on earth... just as the founders intended.

Then you're back down to the Right of the People. It cannot be infringed.

In the 60s did you know cassette tapes would soon be obsolete, or that the internet would soon connect everybody in the world with everybody else? Did you know that old rotary dial telephone would be replaced with a package the size of a cigarette pack that didn't need a wired connection, and would have more computing power than the manned rocket that first went to the moon?

On some of it I did. Admittedly, I had an advantage though. My uncle was working on the earliest stages of computers with IBM before they actually became IBM. I can barely remember that as I was maybe 5 or so at the time.

Rotary phones? I read a science fiction book when I was maybe 8 and one guy had a phone he put in his lunchbox.

Paul Otlet, born in 1868 envisioned the computer era in the 1930s:

"Decades before even the first microchip, Otlet was calling for screens at everyone's desk and the creation of a "réseau mondial," a worldwide network. Or, yes, a web.

"Everything in the universe, and everything of man, would be registered at a distance as it was produced," Otlet wrote in 1934, imaging a sort of steampunk/Gilliam's Brazil proto-internet, made of index cards, and microfiche. "In this way a moving image of the world will be established, a true mirror of his memory. From a distance, everyone will be able to read text, enlarged and limited to the desired subject, projected on an individual screen. In this way, everyone from his armchair will be able to contemplate creation, in whole or in certain parts."

The Man Who Envisioned the Internet Before Computers, Without Computers

And what about Charles Babbage?

Either way, it is too late to turn back the clock on technology

When you start picking away at what made America great and incrementally removing it (i.e. unalienable Rights) you begin attacking ALL the fundamental Rights our forefathers fought, bled, and died securing.

Lastly, you have no told me why we cannot resolve this issue in the same manner that we approach the issue of DUIs with.

Only some of it? So you admit you didn't know how things would change.

You are attempting to be anal retentive now. I've answered your questions and you have nothing left except to play Perry Mason. Well counselor, it ain't working.

While I don't know everything that is going to happen in the future, when you put thirty nine men into a room and they can ponder the future, the possibilities are limitless as to what they thought.

So, let me make this easy for you:

Since the founders could not foresee all the possible contingencies of the future, they left you a get out of jail free card. If you want to succeed at what you're doing, you amend the Constitution. So, if you don't like the laws, that is your recourse.

I don't know what in the Hell the right and the NRA have allowed the liberals to go as far as they have in this piece meal destruction of our Constitution and avoided the treasonous acts of the left.

If the right does not oppose further gun control, they may as well capitulate and let you tear this government down and make it the communist shithole of the left's dream. If you attempted to enforce any such laws as the de facto forces are advocating, it would justify a time for the people to show the left what the meaning of the Second Amendment is all about.

Now, this conversation is mostly for entertainment, but I feel like the patriots who took up arms against the Brits. Some Rights are unalienable. I always bold that word because it means something - something you cannot wrap your head around. It means that some Rights are NOT given by government and government, under the de jure / lawful / legal Constitution is legally powerless to enforce any law that jeopardizes the Right.

Benjamin Franklin said:

"I think a general Government necessary for us, and there is no form of Government but what may be a blessing to the people if well administered, and believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a course of years, and can only end in Despotism, as other forms have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic Government, being incapable of any other."

The Dems need despots; I don't. And I have faith that there will be those who will not let you turn this country into a dictatorship.

 

[BULLDOG]

It's a matter of reducing those bad things as much as possible. I don't think the majority of citizens see being prepared for armed combat against our own military as a pressing priority. Do you?

Not really. Having served with both, I have no problem with either the military or law-enforcement. That's not the purpose of most militias, as many members of them have had either prior or current experience with them.

Gun nuts make all kinds of claims for the purpose of their so called militias. That was the last one I heard. Most seem to bounce back and forth between preparing for a civil war, and being prepared to take over when the military has been defeated by some foreign power. Both ridiculous flights of fancy.

Really? Why wouldn't we prepare for a civil war? It was after all a Bernie Sanders supporter who fired the first shot on that baseball field. You probably aren't aware of it, but there are even factions of Antifa who have armed themselves.

Even if it didn't come to that, all it would take is one cataclysmic event to throw this country into complete chaos. I don't know about you, but the thought of roving gangs of desperate hungry people streaming out of the cities, who are willing to kill others for their food and supplies, doesn't sound like much fun to me.

And don't say that it couldn't happen. We are a large country with a lot of resources, but more fragile that than you know. What if the Russians or Chinese hacked into out electrical grid and shut it down? What if we had an EMP attack? Being unprepared, people living in high-population areas would start dropping like flies within a couple weeks.

Even more reason to arm yourself.

Right. You should stock your compound and keep a good supply if tinfoil handy. Sounds like you will need it.

I'm just throwing those scenarios out there. If you don't care what happens to you and your family, why do you have a spare tire on your car? Why car insurance? Why life and home insurance? Why a savings account? Do you have only one pair of underwear or one pair of shoes?

Even if it didn't come to that, we all have the responsibility for our own personal safely and the safety of our loved ones. To be unprepared is thoughtless and imprudent.

I live 12 miles out of a small town. So what do I do when I hear one of my dog's low growl and a car with three or four suspicious people pulls up to the house and tries to come through the door? Call the police and wait 15 minutes? Go outside, sit down with them around a campfire making Smores and singing a round of "Kumbaya"?

Is that your preferred method?

Knowing there is a possibility of a flat tire is not the same as expecting and gearing up to fight another holocaust.

 

[BULLDOG]

I believe they were somewhere between the extremes that mention. They were sharp, but they didn't have a crystal ball that showed them the future. There was no way they could know our capabilities now, any more then we know what it will be 200 years from now.

Yes, we DO know the capabilities of the future. So, are we to be defeatist about it or plan for the future?

Stephen Hawkings final prediction was:

"Famed physicist Stephen Hawking died Tuesday at the age of 76, his family confirmed. Renowned for his scientific work in a number of areas, Hawking left behind a legacy that encompassed a variety of subjects, expounding on everything from the secrets of the universe to artificial intelligence.

Hawking often shared his predictions about the future, discussing the fate of humanity and the human race.

Here are some of Hawking’s most interesting theories.

Artificial Intelligence
Hawking warned about the potential for robots to outperform humans, effectively making the human race obsolete.“I fear AI may replace humans altogether,” he told Wired in November. “If people design computer viruses, someone will design AI that improves and replicates itself. This will be a new form of life that outperforms humans.” "

Stephen Hawking's Most Notable Predictions

Of course the founders had some inkling about the possibilities about the future based on the past. I want you to remember that in the 1200s Genghis was busy taking over half the world. So, they understood both history and political philosophies.

It does not stand to reason that they would handicap us and make us unable to stand against tyrannical governments. And what you're arguing is way out of touch with reality.

Adolph Hitler, sitting around a table having beer with his buddies, began an effort with a little country about the size of Texas and damn near took over the world.

Going back earlier, Jesus had but twelve apostles and he changed the world.

The point is, modern militaries have weaponry that is awesome by any standard. But the difference in capabilities is not any greater than the differences between what we have today compared to what they have.

If they nuke you, you're dead anyway. If any military, including our own, plans a full on occupation, they cannot destroy neighborhoods without killing their own. So, it boils down to tanks against civilians - and the have to come out some time plus the fact that our armed citizenry far outnumbers ANY military on earth... just as the founders intended.

Then you're back down to the Right of the People. It cannot be infringed.

In the 60s did you know cassette tapes would soon be obsolete, or that the internet would soon connect everybody in the world with everybody else? Did you know that old rotary dial telephone would be replaced with a package the size of a cigarette pack that didn't need a wired connection, and would have more computing power than the manned rocket that first went to the moon?

On some of it I did. Admittedly, I had an advantage though. My uncle was working on the earliest stages of computers with IBM before they actually became IBM. I can barely remember that as I was maybe 5 or so at the time.

Rotary phones? I read a science fiction book when I was maybe 8 and one guy had a phone he put in his lunchbox.

Paul Otlet, born in 1868 envisioned the computer era in the 1930s:

"Decades before even the first microchip, Otlet was calling for screens at everyone's desk and the creation of a "réseau mondial," a worldwide network. Or, yes, a web.

"Everything in the universe, and everything of man, would be registered at a distance as it was produced," Otlet wrote in 1934, imaging a sort of steampunk/Gilliam's Brazil proto-internet, made of index cards, and microfiche. "In this way a moving image of the world will be established, a true mirror of his memory. From a distance, everyone will be able to read text, enlarged and limited to the desired subject, projected on an individual screen. In this way, everyone from his armchair will be able to contemplate creation, in whole or in certain parts."

The Man Who Envisioned the Internet Before Computers, Without Computers

And what about Charles Babbage?

Either way, it is too late to turn back the clock on technology

When you start picking away at what made America great and incrementally removing it (i.e. unalienable Rights) you begin attacking ALL the fundamental Rights our forefathers fought, bled, and died securing.

Lastly, you have no told me why we cannot resolve this issue in the same manner that we approach the issue of DUIs with.

Only some of it? So you admit you didn't know how things would change.

You are attempting to be anal retentive now. I've answered your questions and you have nothing left except to play Perry Mason. Well counselor, it ain't working.

While I don't know everything that is going to happen in the future, when you put thirty nine men into a room and they can ponder the future, the possibilities are limitless as to what they thought.

So, let me make this easy for you:

Since the founders could not foresee all the possible contingencies of the future, they left you a get out of jail free card. If you want to succeed at what you're doing, you amend the Constitution. So, if you don't like the laws, that is your recourse.

I don't know what in the Hell the right and the NRA have allowed the liberals to go as far as they have in this piece meal destruction of our Constitution and avoided the treasonous acts of the left.

If the right does not oppose further gun control, they may as well capitulate and let you tear this government down and make it the communist shithole of the left's dream. If you attempted to enforce any such laws as the de facto forces are advocating, it would justify a time for the people to show the left what the meaning of the Second Amendment is all about.

Now, this conversation is mostly for entertainment, but I feel like the patriots who took up arms against the Brits. Some Rights are unalienable. I always bold that word because it means something - something you cannot wrap your head around. It means that some Rights are NOT given by government and government, under the de jure / lawful / legal Constitution is legally powerless to enforce any law that jeopardizes the Right.

Benjamin Franklin said:

"I think a general Government necessary for us, and there is no form of Government but what may be a blessing to the people if well administered, and believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a course of years, and can only end in Despotism, as other forms have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic Government, being incapable of any other."

The Dems need despots; I don't. And I have faith that there will be those who will not let you turn this country into a dictatorship.

My only point has been and is that the framers of the constitution were smart, and gave us an amazing document, but they had no idea how life would change in the future. They knew that themselves, and made allowances for us to change their document, or interpret it in ways different than they did to match the reality of the time.