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Faith healing replaces medicine for some....or is it only SOME religious beliefs that are acceptable to those supporting religion?
If she were into "faith healing" she would be a TV Evangelist not a Psychologist.
Edit: Gotta run for the day. I have enjoyed this discussion from both sides. Thanks to all who participated. I'll try to catch up tonight or tomorrow. Have a great Saturday everyone.
Immie
But what if she wanted to go to medical school? She could sue them for persecuting her because of her religious beliefs?
The school is punishing her for being religious. That is the problem here.
Also, she is not performing the job yet. She is in an institute of higher learning, well actually this institution appears to dissuade higher learning by squelching independent thought. It is not up to this institution to decide how well she will perform the duties of her chosen profession. It is up to them the gauge whether or not she understands the material presented to her and it seems to me that if she passes the tests then she fulfills that part of the requirements.
Immie
nothing to do with religion, an atheist with her views on homosexuals would get the same treatment
keep this kind of crap out of the thread. no one has been nasty so far
How is stating that bigots won't be given a pass nasty?
he was calling the girl a bigot for her beliefs. thats not what this thread is about and its stayed civil in 99% of posts so far
Ga. School Forces Christian Student to Alter Beliefs to Graduate | Christianpost.com
I don't really know how all of this works, so i think I will stay out of it for now
Why do I suspect that there is a little more to this than the "christianpost" is reporting.
My money is on her regarding her chosen job as a professional counselor as an excuse to proselytize to people about her religion.
I doubt this merely boils down to her personal beliefs.
And I bet you think she is close minded and bigoted.
Why do I suspect that there is a little more to this than the "christianpost" is reporting.
My money is on her regarding her chosen job as a professional counselor as an excuse to proselytize to people about her religion.
I doubt this merely boils down to her personal beliefs.
And I bet you think she is close minded and bigoted.
I have no idea. The article is so one sided that it's pretty hard to establish a decent fact pattern.
Since I am not going to wade through 24 pages of insults, does anyone have a link that gives the school's side of the story?
The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual is the bible of the American Psychiatric Society. It DOES NOT define homosexuality as a mental illness or as maladaptive in any way. Others have pointed you to a code of conduct for counselors, and we have pointed out that the degree this student is after would qualify her to counsel public school students....an environment in which her unwillingness to tolerate diversity would be dysfunctional, harm kids, and expose the school system to liability for that harm. All these facts are rejected by you, solely because of your religious beliefs.
Which one of us is being dishonest here, Allie?
You wish the world we live in punished people for being gay, and want this lady to get her degree so that in some small way, she can carry out those wishes. I find this desire of yours replusive and irrational, and I applaud the fact that it is frustrated. This lady is free to believe anything she likes...what she is NOT free to do is enter a helping profession with an avowed intention to harm some future clients.
I do not think the institution has the right to deny her graduation and I am extremely opposed to their "re-education" camp. Heck, when you think about it, this "re-education" of Jennifer is exactly what they are afraid she will do to her clients. Kind of hypocritical if you ask me.
Immie
And I bet you think she is close minded and bigoted.
I have no idea. The article is so one sided that it's pretty hard to establish a decent fact pattern.
Since I am not going to wade through 24 pages of insults, does anyone have a link that gives the school's side of the story?
Nope, not yet. They're ominously silent.
Who knows, maybe it's all a flap.
ASU and state Board of Regents officials said Friday they couldn't talk about the lawsuit, which claims ASU professors demanded Keeton suppress her views on homosexuals to remain in a counseling program...... She said commenting on Keeton's academic standing would violate the Family Education Rights and Privacy Act. She also said university faculty do not discriminate in regards to religious or moral beliefs.
A student who is suing Augusta State University says she considers gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender lifestyles as "identity confusion," and shared those views in class discussions and written assignments.
Jennifer Keeton, a 24-year-old graduate student, said in an e-mail Friday that she had told Paulette Schenck, an ASU assistant professor named as a defendant in the suit, that homosexuality is a behavioral choice. However, Keeton said allegations by college officials that she would encourage conversion therapy on students or her clients is false.
Immie, suppose the lady is a Christian Scientist and believes that medicine is bad and all illness should be dealt with only by faith? Could she speak about her intention to carry out her medical practice in this fashion and still graduate medical school? Of course not.
When the livelihood of a person is dependent on the care they deliver to members of the public and they announce their intentions to deviate from the profession's standard of care/code of ethics/etc., that individual is not eligible for licensure. In the helping professions, the right of the public to receive adequate and qualified care surpasses the rights of the professionals to earn a living.
Why do I suspect that there is a little more to this than the "christianpost" is reporting.
My money is on her regarding her chosen job as a professional counselor as an excuse to proselytize to people about her religion.
I doubt this merely boils down to her personal beliefs.
And I bet you think she is close minded and bigoted.
I have no idea. The article is so one sided that it's pretty hard to establish a decent fact pattern.
Since I am not going to wade through 24 pages of insults, does anyone have a link that gives the school's side of the story?
Keeton claims that she has voiced her Christian beliefs inside and outside the classroom on homosexuality and other biblical teachings. ASU faculty has ordered her to undergo a remediation plan, which would include diversity sensitivity workshops, she says.
Professors also suggested that she attend Augusta's Gay Pride Parade last month, Keeton told her attorneys. As a part of the plan, she would report back once a month to faculty to determine whether the activities have an impact on her convictions.
Keeton, who is from the Atlanta area, plans to become a school counselor, and says she refuses to change her religious beliefs. She enrolled in the program last fall, but was not asked to begin the remediation plan until this summer.
"While I want to stay in the school counseling program, I know that I can't honestly complete the remediation plan knowing that I would have to alter my beliefs," Keeton said in a video produced by the defense fund. "I'm not willing to, and I know I can't change my biblical views."
That is not what I wrote, Allie. I wrote "intended to carry out her medical practice consistent with those beliefs". See the difference?
This lady is entitled to hold bigoted and wrong ideas about gay people all day long....except while in her position as a counselor. She has stated (apparently cried out) that she intends to do so during her employment and towards her future clients, and it is this...and this alone...that disqualifies her to earn a living as a public school counselor. Unless, of course, she fails on other grounds, which seems to be a possibility.
You cannot enter a helping profession burdened with antiquated ideas about people gleaned from religious background AND inflict your patients/clients with those beliefs. If she could confine them to her private life, then yes, it'd be a non-issue, but she claims she cannot.
Immie, suppose the lady is a Christian Scientist and believes that medicine is bad and all illness should be dealt with only by faith? Could she speak about her intention to carry out her medical practice in this fashion and still graduate medical school? Of course not.
When the livelihood of a person is dependent on the care they deliver to members of the public and they announce their intentions to deviate from the profession's standard of care/code of ethics/etc., that individual is not eligible for licensure. In the helping professions, the right of the public to receive adequate and qualified care surpasses the rights of the professionals to earn a living.
It is not up to the school to deny her the degree that she earned.
It is up to the state, after completion of her medical degree as to whether or not they license her. Again, it is not up to the school
Now, tell me why a Christian Scientist would spend the money to go to med school when he/she has no intention of practicing medicine.
Immie
I have no idea. The article is so one sided that it's pretty hard to establish a decent fact pattern.
Since I am not going to wade through 24 pages of insults, does anyone have a link that gives the school's side of the story?
Nope, not yet. They're ominously silent.
Who knows, maybe it's all a flap.
Actually, they can't comment because it would violate the Family Education Rights and Privacy Act.
ASU and state Board of Regents officials said Friday they couldn't talk about the lawsuit, which claims ASU professors demanded Keeton suppress her views on homosexuals to remain in a counseling program...... She said commenting on Keeton's academic standing would violate the Family Education Rights and Privacy Act. She also said university faculty do not discriminate in regards to religious or moral beliefs.
A student who is suing Augusta State University says she considers gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender lifestyles as "identity confusion," and shared those views in class discussions and written assignments.
Jennifer Keeton, a 24-year-old graduate student, said in an e-mail Friday that she had told Paulette Schenck, an ASU assistant professor named as a defendant in the suit, that homosexuality is a behavioral choice. However, Keeton said allegations by college officials that she would encourage conversion therapy on students or her clients is false.
It looks like the crux of this issue is whether the program thought that Keeton was going to try and implement her personal beliefs in her professional counseling capacity. If that was the case, I think the University has cause to be concerned about it. However, if this boils down to a student being punished for their personal opinions, then I think the school is wrong.
Futhermore, I am curious what the damages are here. Was Keeton really told she would be separated simply due to her personal beliefs and given an ultimatum or is there more to this? There is some indication in the OP that she is a poor writer and needed remediation.
ASU student says gays have 'identity confusion' | The Augusta Chronicle
And I bet you think she is close minded and bigoted.
I have no idea. The article is so one sided that it's pretty hard to establish a decent fact pattern.
Since I am not going to wade through 24 pages of insults, does anyone have a link that gives the school's side of the story?
Although not much from the school here is another link given by someone else.
Christian student sues ASU | The Augusta Chronicle
Keeton claims that she has voiced her Christian beliefs inside and outside the classroom on homosexuality and other biblical teachings. ASU faculty has ordered her to undergo a remediation plan, which would include diversity sensitivity workshops, she says.
Professors also suggested that she attend Augusta's Gay Pride Parade last month, Keeton told her attorneys. As a part of the plan, she would report back once a month to faculty to determine whether the activities have an impact on her convictions.
Keeton, who is from the Atlanta area, plans to become a school counselor, and says she refuses to change her religious beliefs. She enrolled in the program last fall, but was not asked to begin the remediation plan until this summer.
"While I want to stay in the school counseling program, I know that I can't honestly complete the remediation plan knowing that I would have to alter my beliefs," Keeton said in a video produced by the defense fund. "I'm not willing to, and I know I can't change my biblical views."
What they want to do is send her to a "re-education" camp. They want to brainwash her. They are hypocrites.
Immie
Immie, suppose the lady is a Christian Scientist and believes that medicine is bad and all illness should be dealt with only by faith? Could she speak about her intention to carry out her medical practice in this fashion and still graduate medical school? Of course not.
When the livelihood of a person is dependent on the care they deliver to members of the public and they announce their intentions to deviate from the profession's standard of care/code of ethics/etc., that individual is not eligible for licensure. In the helping professions, the right of the public to receive adequate and qualified care surpasses the rights of the professionals to earn a living.
It is not up to the school to deny her the degree that she earned.
It is up to the state, after completion of her medical degree as to whether or not they license her. Again, it is not up to the school
Now, tell me why a Christian Scientist would spend the money to go to med school when he/she has no intention of practicing medicine.
Immie
In light of this hypothetical situation, your statements are absurd. You don't wait to get patient exposure and create assessments and plans until you are a resident. You do it early on as a medical student.
Any medical student that's assessment consisted of "God/faith will heal them" every single time would be separated from the program for failing to meet the standards and they would lose any attempt to sue over discrimination.
Sorry to burst your bubble.
I have no idea. The article is so one sided that it's pretty hard to establish a decent fact pattern.
Since I am not going to wade through 24 pages of insults, does anyone have a link that gives the school's side of the story?
Although not much from the school here is another link given by someone else.
Christian student sues ASU | The Augusta Chronicle
Keeton claims that she has voiced her Christian beliefs inside and outside the classroom on homosexuality and other biblical teachings. ASU faculty has ordered her to undergo a remediation plan, which would include diversity sensitivity workshops, she says.
Professors also suggested that she attend Augusta's Gay Pride Parade last month, Keeton told her attorneys. As a part of the plan, she would report back once a month to faculty to determine whether the activities have an impact on her convictions.
Keeton, who is from the Atlanta area, plans to become a school counselor, and says she refuses to change her religious beliefs. She enrolled in the program last fall, but was not asked to begin the remediation plan until this summer.
"While I want to stay in the school counseling program, I know that I can't honestly complete the remediation plan knowing that I would have to alter my beliefs," Keeton said in a video produced by the defense fund. "I'm not willing to, and I know I can't change my biblical views."
What they want to do is send her to a "re-education" camp. They want to brainwash her. They are hypocrites.
Immie
Thanks. I actually found it on my own. Keep in mind that this is all still Keeton's claim. She'll have her day in court, but I suspect there is more to this issue than Keeton is claiming.
Excuses, excuses, excuses, GTH. A poor writer? Come on she is in graduate school, you don't get to grad school writing like TDM.
In May, Keeton was notified that she would be asked to participate in a remediation plan. Mary Jane Anderson-Wiley, an associate professor who also oversees student education and discipline, explained that the faculty wanted to see Keeton's writing skills improve and that they are concerned with some of her beliefs and views pertaining to GLBT (Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, and Transgender) issues.
This is about her faith.
She stated (according to the article) that she understood about keeping her personal beliefs out of a counseling session. If she can pass the courses then the institute of higher education, has a duty to give her the degree. They've taken her money joyfully for the last year.
Whether or not she is qualified to perform in the profession she has chosen is not up to the school. That is up to the licensing board.
Immie
