I do not like executive orders

[Weatherman2020]

I find it hard to support ANY EO that abuses power.

We can thank Obama for weaponizing the Federal government and turning it over to Trump.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Because that's how insurance works. Insurance is there to insure yourself against UNFORESEEN expenses. They calculate a risk and then let the entire pool of people pay a certain amount so that regardless of circumstances everybody is covered. Like I mentioned you as an older person are at a higher risk for health problems. A risk that is covered by healthier people paying in too the plan too. The whole idea that one should only pay for their current health status is fundamentally flawed.

Except Obamacare put everyone in the same pool thus eliminating different risk pools.
After Obamacare went into effect my premiums rose 3 fold. There is no rationale you can offer that will ever get me support that catastrophic disaster.

The reason it rose so dramatically is because not everybody bought into the pool. I do sympathize that you had to pay a lot more but you are now claiming to like an EO that shrinks the pool even further by offering a different one for low risk people. While you are most likely in the pool that will get its premiums even hiked up more. You don't like ACA, I get that, if you have to pay about 3 times the amount I don't blame you. It isn't perfect but it would serve you well to first understand the basic principles that make it flawed before looking for ANYTHING different regardless of it having an actual chance of improving your situation.

the nay-sayers dont want to understand it, they understand one thing, and one thing only ... Obama did it ergo they hate it.

end of story.

What part of it became ridiculously unaffordable do you not understand?
Trying to "understand" the law would have served me as well as trying to understand space flight.

Good grief

premium increases reached 50-60% long before Obama was even elected, so dont feed me your horseshit.

Premium increases were relative to the risk pool you were in. Yes I saw increases but nothing to the effect of the aca.

This argument is pointless and it's why I said I didn't want to relitigate the law again.

 

[irosie91]

Look how well that shit worked out.

FDR was handicapped by a youth spent in the rarefied
atmosphere of a garden party

Kinda like Don in that regard, ain't he.

Zing!

Trump's more like Hoover than FDR, though.

It sure is funny to hear a guy who shits on a golden toilet whining about elites.

how is trump like hoover?

An inexperienced businessman way over his head.

Actually, Hoover had some government experience before becoming President. He was Coolidge's Secretary of Commerce. So even he is up on Trump.

Oh---I assumed you were referring to the way in which he managed the presidency. I am clueless-----I know that Hoover was a depression time Pres------but DA DEPRESSION was a sorta world economic event

 

[Siete]

Except Obamacare put everyone in the same pool thus eliminating different risk pools.
After Obamacare went into effect my premiums rose 3 fold. There is no rationale you can offer that will ever get me support that catastrophic disaster.

The reason it rose so dramatically is because not everybody bought into the pool. I do sympathize that you had to pay a lot more but you are now claiming to like an EO that shrinks the pool even further by offering a different one for low risk people. While you are most likely in the pool that will get its premiums even hiked up more. You don't like ACA, I get that, if you have to pay about 3 times the amount I don't blame you. It isn't perfect but it would serve you well to first understand the basic principles that make it flawed before looking for ANYTHING different regardless of it having an actual chance of improving your situation.

the nay-sayers dont want to understand it, they understand one thing, and one thing only ... Obama did it ergo they hate it.

end of story.

What part of it became ridiculously unaffordable do you not understand?
Trying to "understand" the law would have served me as well as trying to understand space flight.

Good grief

premium increases reached 50-60% long before Obama was even elected, so dont feed me your horseshit.

Premium increases were relative to the risk pool you were in. Yes I saw increases but nothing to the effect of the aca.

This argument is pointless and it's why I said I didn't want to relitigate the law again.

risk pool - bla bla bla

risk this sport ...


Rapidly rising health insurance premiums and higher cost-sharing continue to strain the budgets of U.S. working families and employers. Analysis of state trends in private employer-based health insurance from 2003 to 2011 reveals that premiums for family coverage increased 62 percent across states—rising far faster than income for middle- and low-income families. At the same time, deductibles more than doubled in large and small firms. Workers are thus paying more but getting less-protective benefits. If trends continue at their historical rate, the average premium for family coverage will reach nearly $25,000 by 2020. The Affordable Care Act’s reforms should begin to moderate costs while improving coverage. But with private insurance costs projected to increase faster than incomes over the next decade, further efforts are needed. If annual premium growth slowed by one percentage point, by 2020 employers and families would save $2,029 annually for family coverage


just like said, dont feed me your horseshit.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

The reason it rose so dramatically is because not everybody bought into the pool. I do sympathize that you had to pay a lot more but you are now claiming to like an EO that shrinks the pool even further by offering a different one for low risk people. While you are most likely in the pool that will get its premiums even hiked up more. You don't like ACA, I get that, if you have to pay about 3 times the amount I don't blame you. It isn't perfect but it would serve you well to first understand the basic principles that make it flawed before looking for ANYTHING different regardless of it having an actual chance of improving your situation.

the nay-sayers dont want to understand it, they understand one thing, and one thing only ... Obama did it ergo they hate it.

end of story.

What part of it became ridiculously unaffordable do you not understand?
Trying to "understand" the law would have served me as well as trying to understand space flight.

Good grief

premium increases reached 50-60% long before Obama was even elected, so dont feed me your horseshit.

Premium increases were relative to the risk pool you were in. Yes I saw increases but nothing to the effect of the aca.

This argument is pointless and it's why I said I didn't want to relitigate the law again.

risk pool - bla bla bla

risk this sport ...


Rapidly rising health insurance premiums and higher cost-sharing continue to strain the budgets of U.S. working families and employers. Analysis of state trends in private employer-based health insurance from 2003 to 2011 reveals that premiums for family coverage increased 62 percent across states—rising far faster than income for middle- and low-income families. At the same time, deductibles more than doubled in large and small firms. Workers are thus paying more but getting less-protective benefits. If trends continue at their historical rate, the average premium for family coverage will reach nearly $25,000 by 2020. The Affordable Care Act’s reforms should begin to moderate costs while improving coverage. But with private insurance costs projected to increase faster than incomes over the next decade, further efforts are needed. If annual premium growth slowed by one percentage point, by 2020 employers and families would save $2,029 annually for family coverage


just like said, dont feed me your horseshit.

I am self employed genius. Purchasing health insurance outside of a group ALWAYS placed me in a risk pool. Just like my WorkmansComp.

STOP trying to pretend you know everything

 

[forkup]

Even if that's true,calling for health insurance to fail is cynical to say the least, considering the bottom line of that equation is human lives. And I don't ask you to re-litigate ACA, I'm asking you to make your point as to how this EO makes it better. A valid question since you started this OP because you like it. I gave you the basic problem. It is an EO designed to create 2 different markets, one cheap one and one expensive one for the age group you belong too. So make your case please?

It makes it better because it removes it as a requirement. Why should I, a healthy person, be forced to pay more because someone else is unhealthy?

Because that's how insurance works. Insurance is there to insure yourself against UNFORESEEN expenses. They calculate a risk and then let the entire pool of people pay a certain amount so that regardless of circumstances everybody is covered. Like I mentioned you as an older person are at a higher risk for health problems. A risk that is covered by healthier people paying in too the plan too. The whole idea that one should only pay for their current health status is fundamentally flawed.

Except Obamacare put everyone in the same pool thus eliminating different risk pools.
After Obamacare went into effect my premiums rose 3 fold. There is no rationale you can offer that will ever get me support that catastrophic disaster.

The reason it rose so dramatically is because not everybody bought into the pool. I do sympathize that you had to pay a lot more but you are now claiming to like an EO that shrinks the pool even further by offering a different one for low risk people. While you are most likely in the pool that will get its premiums even hiked up more. You don't like ACA, I get that, if you have to pay about 3 times the amount I don't blame you. It isn't perfect but it would serve you well to first understand the basic principles that make it flawed before looking for ANYTHING different regardless of it having an actual chance of improving your situation.

I dropped out of the system and joined a co-op for medical needs.

With this I may be able to get back in proper & begin offering insurance to my employees.

And you thinking I should have focused on "fixes" for Obamacare is just silly. I have no power over that law and the ones that do have proven themselves inept.

No fixes have been offered, congress is making sure of that. My point is that you still haven't given me a mechanism why this EO is better.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

It makes it better because it removes it as a requirement. Why should I, a healthy person, be forced to pay more because someone else is unhealthy?

Because that's how insurance works. Insurance is there to insure yourself against UNFORESEEN expenses. They calculate a risk and then let the entire pool of people pay a certain amount so that regardless of circumstances everybody is covered. Like I mentioned you as an older person are at a higher risk for health problems. A risk that is covered by healthier people paying in too the plan too. The whole idea that one should only pay for their current health status is fundamentally flawed.

Except Obamacare put everyone in the same pool thus eliminating different risk pools.
After Obamacare went into effect my premiums rose 3 fold. There is no rationale you can offer that will ever get me support that catastrophic disaster.

The reason it rose so dramatically is because not everybody bought into the pool. I do sympathize that you had to pay a lot more but you are now claiming to like an EO that shrinks the pool even further by offering a different one for low risk people. While you are most likely in the pool that will get its premiums even hiked up more. You don't like ACA, I get that, if you have to pay about 3 times the amount I don't blame you. It isn't perfect but it would serve you well to first understand the basic principles that make it flawed before looking for ANYTHING different regardless of it having an actual chance of improving your situation.

I dropped out of the system and joined a co-op for medical needs.

With this I may be able to get back in proper & begin offering insurance to my employees.

And you thinking I should have focused on "fixes" for Obamacare is just silly. I have no power over that law and the ones that do have proven themselves inept.

No fixes have been offered, congress is making sure of that. My point is that you still haven't given me a mechanism why this EO is better.

I already covered this earlier in the thread.

 

[Siete]

the nay-sayers dont want to understand it, they understand one thing, and one thing only ... Obama did it ergo they hate it.

end of story.

What part of it became ridiculously unaffordable do you not understand?
Trying to "understand" the law would have served me as well as trying to understand space flight.

Good grief

premium increases reached 50-60% long before Obama was even elected, so dont feed me your horseshit.

Premium increases were relative to the risk pool you were in. Yes I saw increases but nothing to the effect of the aca.

This argument is pointless and it's why I said I didn't want to relitigate the law again.

risk pool - bla bla bla

risk this sport ...


Rapidly rising health insurance premiums and higher cost-sharing continue to strain the budgets of U.S. working families and employers. Analysis of state trends in private employer-based health insurance from 2003 to 2011 reveals that premiums for family coverage increased 62 percent across states—rising far faster than income for middle- and low-income families. At the same time, deductibles more than doubled in large and small firms. Workers are thus paying more but getting less-protective benefits. If trends continue at their historical rate, the average premium for family coverage will reach nearly $25,000 by 2020. The Affordable Care Act’s reforms should begin to moderate costs while improving coverage. But with private insurance costs projected to increase faster than incomes over the next decade, further efforts are needed. If annual premium growth slowed by one percentage point, by 2020 employers and families would save $2,029 annually for family coverage


just like said, dont feed me your horseshit.

I am self employed genius. Purchasing health insurance outside of a group ALWAYS placed me in a risk pool. Just like my WorkmansComp.

STOP trying to pretend you know everything

I ran a business that produced 7 figure quarters, every quarter for 12 years, I furnished employee health insurance AND COMPANY CARS - INSURANCE.. I know fucking exactly what my bottom line costs were.

gueius.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

What part of it became ridiculously unaffordable do you not understand?
Trying to "understand" the law would have served me as well as trying to understand space flight.

Good grief

premium increases reached 50-60% long before Obama was even elected, so dont feed me your horseshit.

Premium increases were relative to the risk pool you were in. Yes I saw increases but nothing to the effect of the aca.

This argument is pointless and it's why I said I didn't want to relitigate the law again.

risk pool - bla bla bla

risk this sport ...


Rapidly rising health insurance premiums and higher cost-sharing continue to strain the budgets of U.S. working families and employers. Analysis of state trends in private employer-based health insurance from 2003 to 2011 reveals that premiums for family coverage increased 62 percent across states—rising far faster than income for middle- and low-income families. At the same time, deductibles more than doubled in large and small firms. Workers are thus paying more but getting less-protective benefits. If trends continue at their historical rate, the average premium for family coverage will reach nearly $25,000 by 2020. The Affordable Care Act’s reforms should begin to moderate costs while improving coverage. But with private insurance costs projected to increase faster than incomes over the next decade, further efforts are needed. If annual premium growth slowed by one percentage point, by 2020 employers and families would save $2,029 annually for family coverage


just like said, dont feed me your horseshit.

I am self employed genius. Purchasing health insurance outside of a group ALWAYS placed me in a risk pool. Just like my WorkmansComp.

STOP trying to pretend you know everything

I ran a business that produced 7 figure quarters, every quarter for 12 years, I furnished employee health insurance AND COMPANY CARS - INSURANCE.. I know fucking exactly what my bottom line costs were.

gueius.

And that has what to do with my business or bottom line? It's safe to assume your company was not comprised of employees doing a dangerous job or working with dangerous materials & tools. Things that can cause serious injury or illnesses? You likely had a different amount of employees than me thus a reflection in your buying power and cost per employee.

You're a tool sucking the party line

 

[Siete]

premium increases reached 50-60% long before Obama was even elected, so dont feed me your horseshit.

Premium increases were relative to the risk pool you were in. Yes I saw increases but nothing to the effect of the aca.

This argument is pointless and it's why I said I didn't want to relitigate the law again.

risk pool - bla bla bla

risk this sport ...


Rapidly rising health insurance premiums and higher cost-sharing continue to strain the budgets of U.S. working families and employers. Analysis of state trends in private employer-based health insurance from 2003 to 2011 reveals that premiums for family coverage increased 62 percent across states—rising far faster than income for middle- and low-income families. At the same time, deductibles more than doubled in large and small firms. Workers are thus paying more but getting less-protective benefits. If trends continue at their historical rate, the average premium for family coverage will reach nearly $25,000 by 2020. The Affordable Care Act’s reforms should begin to moderate costs while improving coverage. But with private insurance costs projected to increase faster than incomes over the next decade, further efforts are needed. If annual premium growth slowed by one percentage point, by 2020 employers and families would save $2,029 annually for family coverage


just like said, dont feed me your horseshit.

I am self employed genius. Purchasing health insurance outside of a group ALWAYS placed me in a risk pool. Just like my WorkmansComp.

STOP trying to pretend you know everything

I ran a business that produced 7 figure quarters, every quarter for 12 years, I furnished employee health insurance AND COMPANY CARS - INSURANCE.. I know fucking exactly what my bottom line costs were.

gueius.

And that has what to do with my business or bottom line? It's safe to assume your company was not comprised of employees doing a dangerous job or working with dangerous materials & tools. Things that can cause serious injury or illnesses? You likely had a different amount of employees than me thus a reflection in your buying power and cost per employee.

You're a tool sucking the party line

I voted for Reagan and not Obama or Clinton, TOOLBOI.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Premium increases were relative to the risk pool you were in. Yes I saw increases but nothing to the effect of the aca.

This argument is pointless and it's why I said I didn't want to relitigate the law again.

risk pool - bla bla bla

risk this sport ...


Rapidly rising health insurance premiums and higher cost-sharing continue to strain the budgets of U.S. working families and employers. Analysis of state trends in private employer-based health insurance from 2003 to 2011 reveals that premiums for family coverage increased 62 percent across states—rising far faster than income for middle- and low-income families. At the same time, deductibles more than doubled in large and small firms. Workers are thus paying more but getting less-protective benefits. If trends continue at their historical rate, the average premium for family coverage will reach nearly $25,000 by 2020. The Affordable Care Act’s reforms should begin to moderate costs while improving coverage. But with private insurance costs projected to increase faster than incomes over the next decade, further efforts are needed. If annual premium growth slowed by one percentage point, by 2020 employers and families would save $2,029 annually for family coverage


just like said, dont feed me your horseshit.

I am self employed genius. Purchasing health insurance outside of a group ALWAYS placed me in a risk pool. Just like my WorkmansComp.

STOP trying to pretend you know everything

I ran a business that produced 7 figure quarters, every quarter for 12 years, I furnished employee health insurance AND COMPANY CARS - INSURANCE.. I know fucking exactly what my bottom line costs were.

gueius.

And that has what to do with my business or bottom line? It's safe to assume your company was not comprised of employees doing a dangerous job or working with dangerous materials & tools. Things that can cause serious injury or illnesses? You likely had a different amount of employees than me thus a reflection in your buying power and cost per employee.

You're a tool sucking the party line

I voted for Reagan and not Obama or Clinton, TOOLBOI.

So? Changes nothing about what you're doing here.

 

[iceberg]

I find it hard to support ANY EO that abuses power.

yep. they are not there to create law per se. that is NOT the role of the president.

but when you see one go nuts doing it, and get away with it, you'll see the next people up you may not like doing it. if you sat by and gave obama blessings for going this route you really, in my mind, have nothing to say if trump does it. if his actions are wrong, so were obama's.

 

[Flopper]

But I like the content of today's order on healthcare.

If this executive order stands up to legal challenges, it will remove state oversight of healthcare plans allowing insurers to provide overpriced plans with relatively skimpy coverage. However, that's not the worst part. Insurer will certainly market these plans to the young and healthy driving up prices for those with more serious conditions. It's just part of the Trump plan to destroy the American healthcare system and thus force congress to act. It's a pretty desperate move for Republicans.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

But I like the content of today's order on healthcare.

If this executive order stands up to legal challenges, it will remove state oversight of healthcare plans allowing insurers to provide overpriced plans with relatively skimpy coverage. However, that's not the worst part. Insurer will certainly market these plans to the young and healthy driving up prices for those with more serious conditions. It's just part of the Trump plan to destroy the American healthcare system and thus force congress to act. It's a pretty desperate move for Republicans.

I find this part hysterically ironic

 

[Siete]

risk pool - bla bla bla

risk this sport ...


Rapidly rising health insurance premiums and higher cost-sharing continue to strain the budgets of U.S. working families and employers. Analysis of state trends in private employer-based health insurance from 2003 to 2011 reveals that premiums for family coverage increased 62 percent across states—rising far faster than income for middle- and low-income families. At the same time, deductibles more than doubled in large and small firms. Workers are thus paying more but getting less-protective benefits. If trends continue at their historical rate, the average premium for family coverage will reach nearly $25,000 by 2020. The Affordable Care Act’s reforms should begin to moderate costs while improving coverage. But with private insurance costs projected to increase faster than incomes over the next decade, further efforts are needed. If annual premium growth slowed by one percentage point, by 2020 employers and families would save $2,029 annually for family coverage


just like said, dont feed me your horseshit.

I am self employed genius. Purchasing health insurance outside of a group ALWAYS placed me in a risk pool. Just like my WorkmansComp.

STOP trying to pretend you know everything

I ran a business that produced 7 figure quarters, every quarter for 12 years, I furnished employee health insurance AND COMPANY CARS - INSURANCE.. I know fucking exactly what my bottom line costs were.

gueius.

And that has what to do with my business or bottom line? It's safe to assume your company was not comprised of employees doing a dangerous job or working with dangerous materials & tools. Things that can cause serious injury or illnesses? You likely had a different amount of employees than me thus a reflection in your buying power and cost per employee.

You're a tool sucking the party line

I voted for Reagan and not Obama or Clinton, TOOLBOI.

So? Changes nothing about what you're doing here.

reading RW horsehit.

I retired before I was 50.

 

[TNHarley]

I am self employed genius. Purchasing health insurance outside of a group ALWAYS placed me in a risk pool. Just like my WorkmansComp.

STOP trying to pretend you know everything

I ran a business that produced 7 figure quarters, every quarter for 12 years, I furnished employee health insurance AND COMPANY CARS - INSURANCE.. I know fucking exactly what my bottom line costs were.

gueius.

And that has what to do with my business or bottom line? It's safe to assume your company was not comprised of employees doing a dangerous job or working with dangerous materials & tools. Things that can cause serious injury or illnesses? You likely had a different amount of employees than me thus a reflection in your buying power and cost per employee.

You're a tool sucking the party line

I voted for Reagan and not Obama or Clinton, TOOLBOI.

So? Changes nothing about what you're doing here.

reading RW horsehit.

I retired before I was 50.

If you are over the age of 19 i have lost any faith i had left in humanity

 

[forkup]

Because that's how insurance works. Insurance is there to insure yourself against UNFORESEEN expenses. They calculate a risk and then let the entire pool of people pay a certain amount so that regardless of circumstances everybody is covered. Like I mentioned you as an older person are at a higher risk for health problems. A risk that is covered by healthier people paying in too the plan too. The whole idea that one should only pay for their current health status is fundamentally flawed.

Except Obamacare put everyone in the same pool thus eliminating different risk pools.
After Obamacare went into effect my premiums rose 3 fold. There is no rationale you can offer that will ever get me support that catastrophic disaster.

The reason it rose so dramatically is because not everybody bought into the pool. I do sympathize that you had to pay a lot more but you are now claiming to like an EO that shrinks the pool even further by offering a different one for low risk people. While you are most likely in the pool that will get its premiums even hiked up more. You don't like ACA, I get that, if you have to pay about 3 times the amount I don't blame you. It isn't perfect but it would serve you well to first understand the basic principles that make it flawed before looking for ANYTHING different regardless of it having an actual chance of improving your situation.

I dropped out of the system and joined a co-op for medical needs.

With this I may be able to get back in proper & begin offering insurance to my employees.

And you thinking I should have focused on "fixes" for Obamacare is just silly. I have no power over that law and the ones that do have proven themselves inept.

No fixes have been offered, congress is making sure of that. My point is that you still haven't given me a mechanism why this EO is better.

I already covered this earlier in the thread.

What you said is this EO removes the requirement and that this EO stops putting everybody in the same risk pool. How does either of those things have a chance in reducing your premiums when you are personally an older man and you employ people who do a high risk job? Don't both those things likely increase your premiums?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I am self employed genius. Purchasing health insurance outside of a group ALWAYS placed me in a risk pool. Just like my WorkmansComp.

STOP trying to pretend you know everything

I ran a business that produced 7 figure quarters, every quarter for 12 years, I furnished employee health insurance AND COMPANY CARS - INSURANCE.. I know fucking exactly what my bottom line costs were.

gueius.

And that has what to do with my business or bottom line? It's safe to assume your company was not comprised of employees doing a dangerous job or working with dangerous materials & tools. Things that can cause serious injury or illnesses? You likely had a different amount of employees than me thus a reflection in your buying power and cost per employee.

You're a tool sucking the party line

I voted for Reagan and not Obama or Clinton, TOOLBOI.

So? Changes nothing about what you're doing here.

reading RW horsehit.

I retired before I was 50.

I hear the requirements for trailer park retirement are pretty low.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Except Obamacare put everyone in the same pool thus eliminating different risk pools.
After Obamacare went into effect my premiums rose 3 fold. There is no rationale you can offer that will ever get me support that catastrophic disaster.

The reason it rose so dramatically is because not everybody bought into the pool. I do sympathize that you had to pay a lot more but you are now claiming to like an EO that shrinks the pool even further by offering a different one for low risk people. While you are most likely in the pool that will get its premiums even hiked up more. You don't like ACA, I get that, if you have to pay about 3 times the amount I don't blame you. It isn't perfect but it would serve you well to first understand the basic principles that make it flawed before looking for ANYTHING different regardless of it having an actual chance of improving your situation.

I dropped out of the system and joined a co-op for medical needs.

With this I may be able to get back in proper & begin offering insurance to my employees.

And you thinking I should have focused on "fixes" for Obamacare is just silly. I have no power over that law and the ones that do have proven themselves inept.

No fixes have been offered, congress is making sure of that. My point is that you still haven't given me a mechanism why this EO is better.

I already covered this earlier in the thread.

What you said is this EO removes the requirement and that ACA put everybody in the same risk pool. How does either of those things have a chance in reducing your premiums when you are personally an elderly man and you employ people who do a high risk job?

I'm not elderly lol. 49

 

[iceberg]

But I like the content of today's order on healthcare.

If this executive order stands up to legal challenges, it will remove state oversight of healthcare plans allowing insurers to provide overpriced plans with relatively skimpy coverage. However, that's not the worst part. Insurer will certainly market these plans to the young and healthy driving up prices for those with more serious conditions. It's just part of the Trump plan to destroy the American healthcare system and thus force congress to act. It's a pretty desperate move for Republicans.

yea.

that must be it.

i wish people would quit being so melodramatic.