I have yet to read from any refutation of this solution...

[healthmyths]

Step ONE. Stop using the number "46 million uninsured"!

There have NEVER been 46 million that want and are legally eligible for insurance!
When Obama said: "We are not a nation that accepts nearly 46 million uninsured men, women and children,"
HE Obviously with ALL the resources at his command STILL didn't want to admit that:

1) 10 million counted in his "46 million" WERE NOT citizens!!!
source:Income, Poverty and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2009 - Income & Wealth - Newsroom - U.S. Census Bureau

2) 14 million that say they are uninsured DON"T KNOW they are covered by Medicaid! He of ALL people should know THAT!!!
(NOTE : maybe that's why Obama is NOW saying "30 million"!!!
http://coverageforall.org/pdf/BC-BS_Uninsured-America.pdf

3) 18 million of the "46 million" don't want health insurance as they are under 34, make over $50k and spend less then their employer share!
source: CRISIS OF THE UNINSURED: 2009
AND this is where Obama et.al. are so dishonest! WHY FORCE 18 million people to buy something they don't NEED?

So there is really less the 4 million that need and want coverage
so WHY destroy the health system for the rest of the 99% of Americans?

Second STEP!
Recognize what doctors surveyed say they do ordering duplicate tests, or referrals, etc. i.e. "defensive medicine"!
90% of physicians say they order $850 billion a year in wasted duplicate tests, referrals all out of FEAR of being SUED!
Health News Observer ? Physicians Estimate The Cost Of Defensive Medicine In Us At 650 To 850 Bill Articles

Third Step!
Recognize Obamacare taxed tanning salons because of skin cancer!

Fourth Step!
Recognize that lawyers file lawsuits. Frivolous actions that physicians fear and therefore CAUSE the $850 billion in duplicate tests, etc.

Fifth Step:
Tax lawyers 10% on their $270 billion a year in revenues ..JUST like tanning salons and use that to:
pay a $5,000 premium for each of the 4 million truly uninsured!

Sixth Step:
Mandate hospitals that see this "uninsured" they register and send claims to the insurance company AND NOT pad and pass sometimes at 6,000% markup to Medicare/insurance companies...again adding to the costs!

That is the solution and it didn't cost ANYTHING from the middle class..
but the ambulance chasing, millionaire lawyers!

In summary:
Admit there are less the 4 million!
Tax lawyers' $270 billion a year at 10%
Use the $27 billion to cover the 4 million truly uninsured.
THEN watch the cost of health care plummet by $100 to $200 billion a year and these claims won't be sent to insurance companies and
Medicare!
Then watch insurance companies profits climb --AND YOU IDIOTS-- the insurance companies TAX payments INCREASE!
Then watch Medicare COSTS decline as less and less 6,000% markup "padded and passed" on claims are sent to Medicare!
Then watch insurance premiums decline!
Then watch more people affording their own health insurance.
Then watch MORE TAX revenue reduce the deficit!


AND then DON"T WATCH the destruction of health care for the rest of us!

NOW PLEASE REFUTE ANY of these points OK... Check out the sources OK... THEN tell me this isn't a great solution!!!

WHERE ARE ALL the people that say this won't work????

 

[healthmyths]

Come ON! Refute the above information... I see 5 people have read it.. WHERE are your arguments that this won't work? Or that my information is incorrect???

I mean now even Obama is saying 30 million are uninsured!

 

[healthmyths]

FOLKS... Many of you NEVER heard of the below passed as a "good intentioned" law!
And this is the reason that for example:
Florida Hospital Tampa
3100 East Fletcher Avenue
Tampa, FL 33613
In 2011 Hospital in Tampa sent Medicare 1,362 claims for CAT scan no contrast.
Each claim averaged $3,463, i.e. what the hospital billed Medicare...
The hospital's ACTUAL COSTS to perform the CAT SCAN was $57 a mark up 5,975.44%


EMTALA,
enacted by the federal government in 1986, requires that hospital emergency departments treat emergency conditions of all patients regardless of their ability to pay and is considered a critical element in the "safety net" for the uninsured, but established no direct payment mechanism for such care. Indirect payments and reimbursements through federal and state government programs have never fully compensated public and private hospitals for the full cost of care mandated by EMTALA.
In fact, more than half of all emergency care in the U.S. now goes uncompensated.[50] According to some analyses, EMTALA is an unfunded mandate that has contributed to financial pressures on hospitals in the last 20 years, causing them to consolidate and close facilities, and contributing to emergency room overcrowding.
According to the Institute of Medicine, between 1993 and 2003, emergency room visits in the U.S. grew by 26%, while in the same period, the number of emergency departments declined by 425.[51]
Health care in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[deltex1]

It would be great if Boehner would get up and read your analysis. Why can't someone articulate the truth? At least debate it until the truth is arrived at.

 

[Mac1958]

.

Forget it. The Democrats will deny that defensive medicine even exists (much like the way some of them deny that Political Correctness even exists, but that's for another thread).

Defensive medicine continues to be practiced because doctors are afraid of being sued. Lawyers sue. Lawyers organizations are one of the Democrats' most powerful constituencies.

Ending defensive medicine would immediately and dramatically decrease the overall cost of health care delivery, but forget it. This is about politics, not the cost of health care.

Nice try, though.

.

 

[healthmyths]

It would be great if Boehner would get up and read your analysis. Why can't someone articulate the truth? At least debate it until the truth is arrived at.

I agree!
Boehner, et.al. STILL use that worn out INVALID number!
And it is so blatantly obvious!

I can tell you though with Obama a lawyer and 40+% of Congress lawyers be a hard task to get such tax through!
Very few maybe except for the George-Hamilton-tanning guru Boehner fought against the tanning tax!

But to ignore EMTALA a 1986 "good intention" and ignoring the $850 billion a year in "defensive medicine" attested to by 90% of physicians they practice out of fear of lawsuits.. that is criminal!

What some do with the "defensive medicine" issue is say they want doctors to be fearful of lawsuits as that gets supposedly
better care??? Well maybe we should do better education of physicians instead!

My suggestion is have a Federal Tax on lawyers like tanning salons.
Then let each state do their own tort reform as successful states have done!
Ten years ago, Texas was known as one of the nation’s “judicial hellholes.”
Equal enforcement of the state’s laws was simply not a certainty upon which a citizen could rely.

In the almost 10-year period since the reforms were passed, it is possible to discern whether the reforms worked, whether any of the reforms went too far in abridging the rights of plaintiffs, and whether the stated goal of increasing access to health care was achieved.
By any measure, HB4 has achieved its stated goals. Just four years after HB4 passed,
The New York Times observed:
"Four years after Texas voters approved a constitutional amendment limiting awards in medical malpractice lawsuits, doctors are responding as supporters predicted, arriving from all parts of the country to swell the ranks of specialists at Texas hospitals and bring professional healthcare to some long-underserved rural areas."

Indeed, a former president of the Texas Trial Lawyers Association stated that it is unlikely that the volume of tort lawsuits will ever exceed one-half to two-thirds of pre-reform levels. This is a strong admission that many past suits should never have been filed at all and that the reforms in HB4 are working to discourage the filing of non-meritorious lawsuits.

In May 2005, the American Medical Association removed Texas from its list of states in crisis.[12] Texas is so far the only state to be removed from this list.

Impact of Tort Reform on Economic Growth and Prosperity in Texas

 

[Sallow]

What buffoonery..

Tax lawyers? For healthcare??

What's next..

 

[Freewill]

Maybe I am jaded here but I do have a few observations.

1. The emergency room in my local hospital is very nice, well kept and the wait doesn't seem to be very long. So if they are losing money I don't see it, it seems as if they are making money, which is after all their goal.

2. The defensive medicine excuse. I am thinking doctors get paid for referrals but I have no way of knowing if that be fact. I will agree that I was sent for some tests, MRI, that turn out I did not need. But it wasn't because I was complaining about anything it was because the doctor said he "heard" something in my lungs and thought it was asbestos. Could be these defensive test are mostly because the doctors don't really know what they are dealing with and it wouldn't change regardless of what is done.

 

[Sallow]

It would be great if Boehner would get up and read your analysis. Why can't someone articulate the truth? At least debate it until the truth is arrived at.

I agree!
Boehner, et.al. STILL use that worn out INVALID number!
And it is so blatantly obvious!

I can tell you though with Obama a lawyer and 40+% of Congress lawyers be a hard task to get such tax through!
Very few maybe except for the George-Hamilton-tanning guru Boehner fought against the tanning tax!

But to ignore EMTALA a 1986 "good intention" and ignoring the $850 billion a year in "defensive medicine" attested to by 90% of physicians they practice out of fear of lawsuits.. that is criminal!

What some do with the "defensive medicine" issue is say they want doctors to be fearful of lawsuits as that gets supposedly
better care??? Well maybe we should do better education of physicians instead!

My suggestion is have a Federal Tax on lawyers like tanning salons.
Then let each state do their own tort reform as successful states have done!
Ten years ago, Texas was known as one of the nation’s “judicial hellholes.”
Equal enforcement of the state’s laws was simply not a certainty upon which a citizen could rely.

In the almost 10-year period since the reforms were passed, it is possible to discern whether the reforms worked, whether any of the reforms went too far in abridging the rights of plaintiffs, and whether the stated goal of increasing access to health care was achieved.
By any measure, HB4 has achieved its stated goals. Just four years after HB4 passed,
The New York Times observed:
"Four years after Texas voters approved a constitutional amendment limiting awards in medical malpractice lawsuits, doctors are responding as supporters predicted, arriving from all parts of the country to swell the ranks of specialists at Texas hospitals and bring professional healthcare to some long-underserved rural areas."

Indeed, a former president of the Texas Trial Lawyers Association stated that it is unlikely that the volume of tort lawsuits will ever exceed one-half to two-thirds of pre-reform levels. This is a strong admission that many past suits should never have been filed at all and that the reforms in HB4 are working to discourage the filing of non-meritorious lawsuits.

In May 2005, the American Medical Association removed Texas from its list of states in crisis.[12] Texas is so far the only state to be removed from this list.

Impact of Tort Reform on Economic Growth and Prosperity in Texas

Ah yes..the heritage foundation. The AUTHORS of ObamaCare.

The very same folks that recently went on a racist rant.

Tort reform and Texas "prosperity"? You the fact they sit on OCEANS OF OIL have nothing to do with it?

 

[deltex1]

Texas has oceans of oil and Obabble doesn't want a drop of it..he'd rather buy from his Muslim buddies...

 

[deltex1]

What buffoonery..

Tax lawyers? For healthcare??

What's next..

IRS running healthcare...that is buffoonery.

 

[deltex1]

Has this problem been solved/resolved?



Is Your Doctor Getting Drug Kickbacks?

 

[Old Rocks]

We have the most costly health care system in the world at present. And we get third world results. There are many nations that are covering all of their citizens at 1/2 to 3/4 the cost per citizen that is paid in this nation. And they live longer, and have far better infant mortality numbers.

Now you can defend paying too much for too little till the cows come home. If that is your schtick, lovely. For the rest of us, we need to look at what the other industrial nations are doing right, and copy what would work for us.

 

[deltex1]

I always ask.."what are the Israelis doing"?

 

[JoeB131]

Come ON! Refute the above information... I see 5 people have read it.. WHERE are your arguments that this won't work? Or that my information is incorrect???

I mean now even Obama is saying 30 million are uninsured!

Maybe you need to actually not come off like someone who is erratic and all over the map.

On the 46 million. Sorry, those 10 million Non-citizens STILL have medical needs. So do those 18 million who don't buy insurance because they think they can skate. The rest of us who DO buy insurance end up paying for them when they end up at Emergency Rooms and skip out on their bills.

Defensive medicine- Sorry, man, I want doctors practicing defensive medicine and so do you. We have 96,000 deaths every year due to medical mistakes. I want them making sure they don't make more.

Tanning Salons- Tax the fuck out of them. Seriously.

Lawyers- Once again- 96,000 Americans are killed every year because medical "professionals" make mistakes. Lawyers keep them on the up and up.

Most people injured by their caregivers don't sue. Usually trying to make it right is sufficient.

Lawyers aren't the problem.

Greedy doctors, greedy pharmacueitcal companies and greedy insurance companies are.

 

[healthmyths]

Maybe I am jaded here but I do have a few observations.

1. The emergency room in my local hospital is very nice, well kept and the wait doesn't seem to be very long. So if they are losing money I don't see it, it seems as if they are making money, which is after all their goal.

2. The defensive medicine excuse. I am thinking doctors get paid for referrals but I have no way of knowing if that be fact. I will agree that I was sent for some tests, MRI, that turn out I did not need. But it wasn't because I was complaining about anything it was because the doctor said he "heard" something in my lungs and thought it was asbestos. Could be these defensive test are mostly because the doctors don't really know what they are dealing with and it wouldn't change regardless of what is done.

Your observations are ANECDOTAL about "One emergency room."

1) (PLEASE SEE BELOW survey!!!) physicians surveyed said:
Physicians estimate the cost of defensive medicine in US at $650 to $850 billion per year.
This is 26% to 34% of all US healthcare costs.

• Up to 92% of US physicians practice defensive medicine.
• 76% of physicians report that defensive medicine decreases patient access to healthcare.
• 53% of physicians report delaying new techniques, procedures, and treatments due to fear of lawsuits.
• Patients most affected by defensive medicine include those visiting emergency rooms and those requiring surgery.
• Women are most affected by defensive medicine.
• Emergency medicine, primary care, and OB/GYN physicians are most likely to practice defensive medicine.
• 79 to 83% of surgeons and OB/GYNs have been named in lawsuits.

Health News Observer ? Physicians Estimate The Cost Of Defensive Medicine In Us At 650 To 850 Bill Articles

Next error..2. "The defensive medicine excuse. I am thinking doctors get paid for referrals"

YOU never heard of the Stark law have you???
The Stark law is a limitation on certain physician referrals. It prohibits physician referrals of designated health services ("DHS") for Medicare and Medicaid patients if the physician (or an immediate family member) has a financial relationship with that entity
Stark Law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

WHY would 90% of physicians admit to defensive medicine if it would COST THEM REFERRAL MONEY and was against the law to get referrals???

Finally why are you so quick to attack the 1% people when Lawyers make up that 1% from their factual revenue generated by
health care cases?
Why are you using single anecdotal reference and say that applies to ALL emergency rooms?
Why are you so afraid of TAXING Lawyers?
I just don't understand how people like you that attack profiteers seem to ignore what 90% of doctors attest to and the facts
millionaire lawyers are making MONEY OFF YOU! Yes because every time that doctor sends a duplicate test (which he makes no money off ) and Medicare pays hospitals sometimes 6,000% markups for doing these tests IT AFFECTS YOU!

Do you think I'm spending this time and energy to share these facts with people like you just out of the goodness of my heart?
NO! It's because LIKE YOU I pay Medicare payroll taxes! And OUR payroll tax money is being WASTED in just these illustrations!
And now we have even further WASTE from Obamacare!
So I have a very selfish motive here... I HATE to see MY tax money blown by people that can't even add and subtract:
18 million people from 46 million supposedly uninsured that don't want insurance.. yet it will cost me under Obamacare!
14 million people from 46 million that are already covered under my tax money with MEDICAID... yet Obama doesn't know that??
10 million people that are not citizens... AGAIN my payroll taxes and destruction of healthcare to cover them??
42 million people falsely counted and the 46 million really in 4 million.. AND YOU are OK with the phony number 46 million???

 

[Billo_Really]

Your observations are ANECDOTAL about "One emergency room."

1) (PLEASE SEE BELOW survey!!!) physicians surveyed said:
Physicians estimate the cost of defensive medicine in US at $650 to $850 billion per year.
This is 26% to 34% of all US healthcare costs.

• Up to 92% of US physicians practice defensive medicine.
• 76% of physicians report that defensive medicine decreases patient access to healthcare.
• 53% of physicians report delaying new techniques, procedures, and treatments due to fear of lawsuits.
• Patients most affected by defensive medicine include those visiting emergency rooms and those requiring surgery.
• Women are most affected by defensive medicine.
• Emergency medicine, primary care, and OB/GYN physicians are most likely to practice defensive medicine.
• 79 to 83% of surgeons and OB/GYNs have been named in lawsuits.

Health News Observer ? Physicians Estimate The Cost Of Defensive Medicine In Us At 650 To 850 Bill Articles

Next error..2. "The defensive medicine excuse. I am thinking doctors get paid for referrals"

YOU never heard of the Stark law have you???
The Stark law is a limitation on certain physician referrals. It prohibits physician referrals of designated health services ("DHS") for Medicare and Medicaid patients if the physician (or an immediate family member) has a financial relationship with that entity
Stark Law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

WHY would 90% of physicians admit to defensive medicine if it would COST THEM REFERRAL MONEY and was against the law to get referrals???

Finally why are you so quick to attack the 1% people when Lawyers make up that 1% from their factual revenue generated by
health care cases?
Why are you using single anecdotal reference and say that applies to ALL emergency rooms?
Why are you so afraid of TAXING Lawyers?
I just don't understand how people like you that attack profiteers seem to ignore what 90% of doctors attest to and the facts
millionaire lawyers are making MONEY OFF YOU! Yes because every time that doctor sends a duplicate test (which he makes no money off ) and Medicare pays hospitals sometimes 6,000% markups for doing these tests IT AFFECTS YOU!

Do you think I'm spending this time and energy to share these facts with people like you just out of the goodness of my heart?
NO! It's because LIKE YOU I pay Medicare payroll taxes! And OUR payroll tax money is being WASTED in just these illustrations!
And now we have even further WASTE from Obamacare!
So I have a very selfish motive here... I HATE to see MY tax money blown by people that can't even add and subtract:
18 million people from 46 million supposedly uninsured that don't want insurance.. yet it will cost me under Obamacare!
14 million people from 46 million that are already covered under my tax money with MEDICAID... yet Obama doesn't know that??
10 million people that are not citizens... AGAIN my payroll taxes and destruction of healthcare to cover them??
42 million people falsely counted and the 46 million really in 4 million.. AND YOU are OK with the phony number 46 million???

Hey numbnuts, you've been lobbying for someone to refute what you said in the OP, well, JoeB131 just refuted it and no response from you. What's up with that?

Did you really wanna debate this issue? Or were you just pontificating on a soap box?

 

[candycorn]

Come ON! Refute the above information... I see 5 people have read it.. WHERE are your arguments that this won't work? Or that my information is incorrect???

I mean now even Obama is saying 30 million are uninsured!

Maybe you need to actually not come off like someone who is erratic and all over the map.

On the 46 million. Sorry, those 10 million Non-citizens STILL have medical needs. So do those 18 million who don't buy insurance because they think they can skate. The rest of us who DO buy insurance end up paying for them when they end up at Emergency Rooms and skip out on their bills.

Defensive medicine- Sorry, man, I want doctors practicing defensive medicine and so do you. We have 96,000 deaths every year due to medical mistakes. I want them making sure they don't make more.

Tanning Salons- Tax the fuck out of them. Seriously.

Lawyers- Once again- 96,000 Americans are killed every year because medical "professionals" make mistakes. Lawyers keep them on the up and up.

Most people injured by their caregivers don't sue. Usually trying to make it right is sufficient.

Lawyers aren't the problem.

Greedy doctors, greedy pharmacueitcal companies and greedy insurance companies are.

That and also, the 18 million "don't want it" figure may be true in the current context. If I have diabetes (thank God I do not--get everyone in your family checked for this killer disease) and I am uninsured I would like to get health insurance quite obviously. But I "don't want it" at a price that would destroy my house hold budget. Now if the price is lower due to a federal program or I leave my job but want to hold on to my insurance and continue seeing MY doctor or what have you...the calculus may change as to what I "want".

There are degrees of wanting anything. I want season tickets to the Cardinals in a luxury box. I don't want them at a rate of nearly $8,000 which is a thousand bucks per game. You cut that price to $1,500...then we'll talk.

 

[The Rabbi]

We have the most costly health care system in the world at present. And we get third world results. There are many nations that are covering all of their citizens at 1/2 to 3/4 the cost per citizen that is paid in this nation. And they live longer, and have far better infant mortality numbers.

Now you can defend paying too much for too little till the cows come home. If that is your schtick, lovely. For the rest of us, we need to look at what the other industrial nations are doing right, and copy what would work for us.

That little factoid has been debunked so many times it is amazing anyone still believes it.
But an actual fact is that there are not 46M uninsured.
An actual fact is that every time a plan like Obamacare has been tried the results have been skyrocketing costs and lower quality of care.
An actual fact is that Obamacare was intended to fail, to pave the way for single payer.
Try dealing in actual facts rather than factoids.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Tax lawyers' $270 billion a year at 10%
WHERE ARE ALL the people that say this won't work????

60% of Senators are lawyers, and 37% of House members are lawyers.

lol, you're an idiot. Stop trolling.