I have yet to read from any refutation of this solution...

.

Forget it. The Democrats will deny that defensive medicine even exists (much like the way some of them deny that Political Correctness even exists, but that's for another thread).

Defensive medicine continues to be practiced because doctors are afraid of being sued. Lawyers sue. Lawyers organizations are one of the Democrats' most powerful constituencies.

Ending defensive medicine would immediately and dramatically decrease the overall cost of health care delivery, but forget it. This is about politics, not the cost of health care.

Nice try, though.

.

The Democrats took the tort reform language used in Mike Enzi's health reform legislation in the Senate and Paul Ryan's health reform legislation in the House and they dropped it into the ACA.

Curiously, the House hasn't provided the funding for that piece of the law. If only Paul Ryan had some influence over budgetary matters in the House! But alas.
 
Come ON! Refute the above information... I see 5 people have read it.. WHERE are your arguments that this won't work? Or that my information is incorrect???

I mean now even Obama is saying 30 million are uninsured!

Maybe you need to actually not come off like someone who is erratic and all over the map.

On the 46 million. Sorry, those 10 million Non-citizens STILL have medical needs. So do those 18 million who don't buy insurance because they think they can skate. The rest of us who DO buy insurance end up paying for them when they end up at Emergency Rooms and skip out on their bills.

Defensive medicine- Sorry, man, I want doctors practicing defensive medicine and so do you. We have 96,000 deaths every year due to medical mistakes. I want them making sure they don't make more.

Tanning Salons- Tax the fuck out of them. Seriously.

Lawyers- Once again- 96,000 Americans are killed every year because medical "professionals" make mistakes. Lawyers keep them on the up and up.

Most people injured by their caregivers don't sue. Usually trying to make it right is sufficient.

Lawyers aren't the problem.

Greedy doctors, greedy pharmacueitcal companies and greedy insurance companies are.

THEY ARE NOT Americans! Go back to their country and get health care!
I for one don't believe that bullshit about paying for THEIR health care!
They sneaked into the country illegally! Turn themselves IN and they get FREE health care dumb fu..!

YOU are so full of shit about the 18 million!

They make over $50k and spend OUT of their own pocket for their health care costs!
YOU don't pay one f..king dime for THEM.. For them not paying their bills is a CREDIT risk! Dumb f..k!

The f...king truth is the lawyers are costing $850 billion a year!
Why are you defending them?
TAX them. $27 billion a year will pay for the truly 4 million that WANT and NEED health insurance.

Greedy doctors??? Prove it because I proved they are forbidden by the Stark Law obviously something YOU never heard of!

And are you one dumb.f..k coming to "greedy ins. companies"!!!
The average health insurance company PAYS out BEFORE taxes 80% of every $1 in premium dumb sh..T!
They then PAY OUT in taxes you dummy nearly $100 billion a year!
Where you going to make up the TAX PAYMENTS these 1,300 companies pay in Federal/state/local and probably in your home town there may be an insurance company paying property taxes DUMMY.
They go out of business you'll be just like Detroit people PAYING sky high property taxes and then you'll where did the tax base go???


YOU dumb f...ks that HAVE NO IDEA of how insurance works, much less how the economy and businesses PLEASE take a look a the future of "universal health care" from a Cuban's perspective!!!
$cubahospitalfloors.jpg

$cubanHospital.jpeg

A tribute to Fidel Castro?s health care system
 
Step ONE. Stop using the number "46 million uninsured"!

There have NEVER been 46 million that want and are legally eligible for insurance!
When Obama said: "We are not a nation that accepts nearly 46 million uninsured men, women and children,"
HE Obviously with ALL the resources at his command STILL didn't want to admit that:

1) 10 million counted in his "46 million" WERE NOT citizens!!!
source:Income, Poverty and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2009 - Income & Wealth - Newsroom - U.S. Census Bureau

2) 14 million that say they are uninsured DON"T KNOW they are covered by Medicaid! He of ALL people should know THAT!!!
(NOTE : maybe that's why Obama is NOW saying "30 million"!!!
http://coverageforall.org/pdf/BC-BS_Uninsured-America.pdf

3) 18 million of the "46 million" don't want health insurance as they are under 34, make over $50k and spend less then their employer share!
source: CRISIS OF THE UNINSURED: 2009
AND this is where Obama et.al. are so dishonest! WHY FORCE 18 million people to buy something they don't NEED?

So there is really less the 4 million that need and want coverage
so WHY destroy the health system for the rest of the 99% of Americans?

Second STEP!
Recognize what doctors surveyed say they do ordering duplicate tests, or referrals, etc. i.e. "defensive medicine"!
90% of physicians say they order $850 billion a year in wasted duplicate tests, referrals all out of FEAR of being SUED!
Health News Observer ? Physicians Estimate The Cost Of Defensive Medicine In Us At 650 To 850 Bill Articles

Third Step!
Recognize Obamacare taxed tanning salons because of skin cancer!

Fourth Step!
Recognize that lawyers file lawsuits. Frivolous actions that physicians fear and therefore CAUSE the $850 billion in duplicate tests, etc.

Fifth Step:
Tax lawyers 10% on their $270 billion a year in revenues ..JUST like tanning salons and use that to:
pay a $5,000 premium for each of the 4 million truly uninsured!

Sixth Step:
Mandate hospitals that see this "uninsured" they register and send claims to the insurance company AND NOT pad and pass sometimes at 6,000% markup to Medicare/insurance companies...again adding to the costs!

That is the solution and it didn't cost ANYTHING from the middle class..
but the ambulance chasing, millionaire lawyers!

In summary:
Admit there are less the 4 million!
Tax lawyers' $270 billion a year at 10%
Use the $27 billion to cover the 4 million truly uninsured.
THEN watch the cost of health care plummet by $100 to $200 billion a year and these claims won't be sent to insurance companies and
Medicare!
Then watch insurance companies profits climb --AND YOU IDIOTS-- the insurance companies TAX payments INCREASE!
Then watch Medicare COSTS decline as less and less 6,000% markup "padded and passed" on claims are sent to Medicare!
Then watch insurance premiums decline!
Then watch more people affording their own health insurance.
Then watch MORE TAX revenue reduce the deficit!


AND then DON"T WATCH the destruction of health care for the rest of us!

NOW PLEASE REFUTE ANY of these points OK... Check out the sources OK... THEN tell me this isn't a great solution!!!

WHERE ARE ALL the people that say this won't work????

I think you are right about the number of uninusured. I believe the powers that be inflated the number so people would think there were oh so many out there suffering. There are a few. I worked in health care for 25 years. Yes, there are a few. But, the veterans are covered, the old are covered, the sick, lame, and lazy are covered. Medicaid could have been expanded to cover the working poor who can't get insurance without the assault that has occurred on our businesses and health care facilities. Anyone who thinks doctors and hospitals are not in self defense mode is delusional. They are merging to achieve power just like they did in TN when Tenncare hit. The market for NPs will open even more than it already is. Doctors will whine and complain, but ultimately they will keep doing what they are doing now.
 
We have the most costly health care system in the world at present. And we get third world results. There are many nations that are covering all of their citizens at 1/2 to 3/4 the cost per citizen that is paid in this nation. And they live longer, and have far better infant mortality numbers.

Now you can defend paying too much for too little till the cows come home. If that is your schtick, lovely. For the rest of us, we need to look at what the other industrial nations are doing right, and copy what would work for us.

There have NEVER been more the 4 million people UNINSURED that want insurance!

OLD ROCKS... Please explain these numbers!!!
According to PolitiFact.org nearly 332 million people are covered!

"Employers provide most of the insurance in this country.
About 60 percent of everyone under 65 is covered through either a large-group or small-group plan, according to the Employee Benefits Research Institute, an independent think tank.

About 22 percent of people under 65 are with a government program, either Medicaid or a children’s program, S-CHIP.

The individual market represents the smallest slice of people with insurance, about 7%."

HEY OLD rock add that up and comes to 89% of Americans! 316 million Americans total at 89% is 281 million!
But wait OL Rocky... the above DOESN"T count for Medicare Politifact said so!!!
PolitiFact | AFP ad says premiums will rise under Obamacare


Medicare states in the below on Page 8.. "In 2011, Medicare covered 40.4 million aged 65
http://www.cms.gov/Research-Statist...eports/ReportsTrustFunds/downloads/tr2012.pdf
Can you add 281 million PLUS 40 million??? What does that come to??? 321 million!
AND THERE ARE ONLY 316 million in the USA!!
Please explain that???

So when I document that 18 million under 34 don't want health insurance paying out of their own pocket why are you disputing that?
When I document 14 million are already covered by Medicaid why are you disputing that?
When I document 10 million are NOT citizens... Why dispute that?
That leaves either 321 million covered or 4 million uninsured but there has never been 46 million !!!

So either way we have totally screwed up numbers but NO where near the 46 million that 6 YES votes thought when passing Obamacare!
OLD rock... EVEN YOU should comprehend the problem here...
IF Obama can't add and subtract... HOW in the hell will the IRS do it???
If either there are 321 million people covered or less the 4 million uninsured... IT IS NOT 46 million FOR SURE!!!
PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG!!!
 
Step ONE. Stop using the number "46 million uninsured"!

There have NEVER been 46 million that want and are legally eligible for insurance!
When Obama said: "We are not a nation that accepts nearly 46 million uninsured men, women and children,"
HE Obviously with ALL the resources at his command STILL didn't want to admit that:

1) 10 million counted in his "46 million" WERE NOT citizens!!!
source:Income, Poverty and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2009 - Income & Wealth - Newsroom - U.S. Census Bureau

2) 14 million that say they are uninsured DON"T KNOW they are covered by Medicaid! He of ALL people should know THAT!!!
(NOTE : maybe that's why Obama is NOW saying "30 million"!!!
http://coverageforall.org/pdf/BC-BS_Uninsured-America.pdf

3) 18 million of the "46 million" don't want health insurance as they are under 34, make over $50k and spend less then their employer share!
source: CRISIS OF THE UNINSURED: 2009
AND this is where Obama et.al. are so dishonest! WHY FORCE 18 million people to buy something they don't NEED?

So there is really less the 4 million that need and want coverage
so WHY destroy the health system for the rest of the 99% of Americans?

Second STEP!
Recognize what doctors surveyed say they do ordering duplicate tests, or referrals, etc. i.e. "defensive medicine"!
90% of physicians say they order $850 billion a year in wasted duplicate tests, referrals all out of FEAR of being SUED!
Health News Observer ? Physicians Estimate The Cost Of Defensive Medicine In Us At 650 To 850 Bill Articles

Third Step!
Recognize Obamacare taxed tanning salons because of skin cancer!

Fourth Step!
Recognize that lawyers file lawsuits. Frivolous actions that physicians fear and therefore CAUSE the $850 billion in duplicate tests, etc.

Fifth Step:
Tax lawyers 10% on their $270 billion a year in revenues ..JUST like tanning salons and use that to:
pay a $5,000 premium for each of the 4 million truly uninsured!

Sixth Step:
Mandate hospitals that see this "uninsured" they register and send claims to the insurance company AND NOT pad and pass sometimes at 6,000% markup to Medicare/insurance companies...again adding to the costs!

That is the solution and it didn't cost ANYTHING from the middle class..
but the ambulance chasing, millionaire lawyers!

In summary:
Admit there are less the 4 million!
Tax lawyers' $270 billion a year at 10%
Use the $27 billion to cover the 4 million truly uninsured.
THEN watch the cost of health care plummet by $100 to $200 billion a year and these claims won't be sent to insurance companies and
Medicare!
Then watch insurance companies profits climb --AND YOU IDIOTS-- the insurance companies TAX payments INCREASE!
Then watch Medicare COSTS decline as less and less 6,000% markup "padded and passed" on claims are sent to Medicare!
Then watch insurance premiums decline!
Then watch more people affording their own health insurance.
Then watch MORE TAX revenue reduce the deficit!


AND then DON"T WATCH the destruction of health care for the rest of us!

NOW PLEASE REFUTE ANY of these points OK... Check out the sources OK... THEN tell me this isn't a great solution!!!

WHERE ARE ALL the people that say this won't work????

So you seem to be under the impression that 10 million illegals never go to the emergency room and that we never end up paying for them anyway. You also seem to be under the impression that 18 million who choose not to purchase insurance never need it and never get sick to the point that they cannot pay for their own medical care. Unfortunately, that is just not true.

In the end we all pay for these uninsured people.
 
Your observations are ANECDOTAL about "One emergency room."

1) (PLEASE SEE BELOW survey!!!) physicians surveyed said:
Physicians estimate the cost of defensive medicine in US at $650 to $850 billion per year.
This is 26% to 34% of all US healthcare costs.
  • Up to 92% of US physicians practice defensive medicine.
  • 76% of physicians report that defensive medicine decreases patient access to healthcare.
  • 53% of physicians report delaying new techniques, procedures, and treatments due to fear of lawsuits.
  • Patients most affected by defensive medicine include those visiting emergency rooms and those requiring surgery.
  • Women are most affected by defensive medicine.
  • Emergency medicine, primary care, and OB/GYN physicians are most likely to practice defensive medicine.
  • 79 to 83% of surgeons and OB/GYNs have been named in lawsuits.
Health News Observer ? Physicians Estimate The Cost Of Defensive Medicine In Us At 650 To 850 Bill Articles

Next error..2. "The defensive medicine excuse. I am thinking doctors get paid for referrals"

YOU never heard of the Stark law have you???
The Stark law is a limitation on certain physician referrals. It prohibits physician referrals of designated health services ("DHS") for Medicare and Medicaid patients if the physician (or an immediate family member) has a financial relationship with that entity
Stark Law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

WHY would 90% of physicians admit to defensive medicine if it would COST THEM REFERRAL MONEY and was against the law to get referrals???

Finally why are you so quick to attack the 1% people when Lawyers make up that 1% from their factual revenue generated by
health care cases?
Why are you using single anecdotal reference and say that applies to ALL emergency rooms?
Why are you so afraid of TAXING Lawyers?
I just don't understand how people like you that attack profiteers seem to ignore what 90% of doctors attest to and the facts
millionaire lawyers are making MONEY OFF YOU! Yes because every time that doctor sends a duplicate test (which he makes no money off ) and Medicare pays hospitals sometimes 6,000% markups for doing these tests IT AFFECTS YOU!

Do you think I'm spending this time and energy to share these facts with people like you just out of the goodness of my heart?
NO! It's because LIKE YOU I pay Medicare payroll taxes! And OUR payroll tax money is being WASTED in just these illustrations!
And now we have even further WASTE from Obamacare!
So I have a very selfish motive here... I HATE to see MY tax money blown by people that can't even add and subtract:
18 million people from 46 million supposedly uninsured that don't want insurance.. yet it will cost me under Obamacare!
14 million people from 46 million that are already covered under my tax money with MEDICAID... yet Obama doesn't know that??
10 million people that are not citizens... AGAIN my payroll taxes and destruction of healthcare to cover them??
42 million people falsely counted and the 46 million really in 4 million.. AND YOU are OK with the phony number 46 million???
Hey numbnuts, you've been lobbying for someone to refute what you said in the OP, well, JoeB131 just refuted it and no response from you. What's up with that?

Did you really wanna debate this issue? Or were you just pontificating on a soap box?

Hey sh..t for brains!!!

Please explain how there can be 321 million Americans covered as shown by politifact.org!!!
PolitiFact | AFP ad says premiums will rise under Obamacare

Or on the other hand for what purpose are we including:
18 million people that pay their own health bills and don't insurance
14 million people ALREADY COVERED by Medicaid
10 million that are NOT legal citizens???

What is the correct answer because NEITHER ONE show 46 million people that are truly in need and are Americans???

Either we have 321 million covered OR we have 4 million that want and need ...
BUT we don't have 46 million for sure!!!
And more importantly the ONLY reason YOU want lawyers to make $270 billion while increasing the $850 billion defensive medicine is YOU think you'll be lucky in a lawsuit!
Dumb f...ks like you are WHY we have this stupid nonsensical debacle known as Obamacare!!

Greedy dumb f...ks like you are what people call idiots for killing the golden goose !
YOU are so f...king dumb!
 
Step ONE. Stop using the number "46 million uninsured"!

There have NEVER been 46 million that want and are legally eligible for insurance!
When Obama said: "We are not a nation that accepts nearly 46 million uninsured men, women and children,"
HE Obviously with ALL the resources at his command STILL didn't want to admit that:

1) 10 million counted in his "46 million" WERE NOT citizens!!!
source:Income, Poverty and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2009 - Income & Wealth - Newsroom - U.S. Census Bureau

2) 14 million that say they are uninsured DON"T KNOW they are covered by Medicaid! He of ALL people should know THAT!!!
(NOTE : maybe that's why Obama is NOW saying "30 million"!!!
http://coverageforall.org/pdf/BC-BS_Uninsured-America.pdf

3) 18 million of the "46 million" don't want health insurance as they are under 34, make over $50k and spend less then their employer share!
source: CRISIS OF THE UNINSURED: 2009
AND this is where Obama et.al. are so dishonest! WHY FORCE 18 million people to buy something they don't NEED?

So there is really less the 4 million that need and want coverage
so WHY destroy the health system for the rest of the 99% of Americans?

Second STEP!
Recognize what doctors surveyed say they do ordering duplicate tests, or referrals, etc. i.e. "defensive medicine"!
90% of physicians say they order $850 billion a year in wasted duplicate tests, referrals all out of FEAR of being SUED!
Health News Observer ? Physicians Estimate The Cost Of Defensive Medicine In Us At 650 To 850 Bill Articles

Third Step!
Recognize Obamacare taxed tanning salons because of skin cancer!

Fourth Step!
Recognize that lawyers file lawsuits. Frivolous actions that physicians fear and therefore CAUSE the $850 billion in duplicate tests, etc.

Fifth Step:
Tax lawyers 10% on their $270 billion a year in revenues ..JUST like tanning salons and use that to:
pay a $5,000 premium for each of the 4 million truly uninsured!

Sixth Step:
Mandate hospitals that see this "uninsured" they register and send claims to the insurance company AND NOT pad and pass sometimes at 6,000% markup to Medicare/insurance companies...again adding to the costs!

That is the solution and it didn't cost ANYTHING from the middle class..
but the ambulance chasing, millionaire lawyers!

In summary:
Admit there are less the 4 million!
Tax lawyers' $270 billion a year at 10%
Use the $27 billion to cover the 4 million truly uninsured.
THEN watch the cost of health care plummet by $100 to $200 billion a year and these claims won't be sent to insurance companies and
Medicare!
Then watch insurance companies profits climb --AND YOU IDIOTS-- the insurance companies TAX payments INCREASE!
Then watch Medicare COSTS decline as less and less 6,000% markup "padded and passed" on claims are sent to Medicare!
Then watch insurance premiums decline!
Then watch more people affording their own health insurance.
Then watch MORE TAX revenue reduce the deficit!


AND then DON"T WATCH the destruction of health care for the rest of us!

NOW PLEASE REFUTE ANY of these points OK... Check out the sources OK... THEN tell me this isn't a great solution!!!

WHERE ARE ALL the people that say this won't work????

So you seem to be under the impression that 10 million illegals never go to the emergency room and that we never end up paying for them anyway. You also seem to be under the impression that 18 million who choose not to purchase insurance never need it and never get sick to the point that they cannot pay for their own medical care. Unfortunately, that is just not true.

In the end we all pay for these uninsured people.

ahhh so socialized medicine is inevitable because some people cannot be expected to be responsible. Why don't you just say that ?
 
Come ON! Refute the above information... I see 5 people have read it.. WHERE are your arguments that this won't work? Or that my information is incorrect???

I mean now even Obama is saying 30 million are uninsured!

Maybe you need to actually not come off like someone who is erratic and all over the map.

On the 46 million. Sorry, those 10 million Non-citizens STILL have medical needs. So do those 18 million who don't buy insurance because they think they can skate. The rest of us who DO buy insurance end up paying for them when they end up at Emergency Rooms and skip out on their bills.

Defensive medicine- Sorry, man, I want doctors practicing defensive medicine and so do you. We have 96,000 deaths every year due to medical mistakes. I want them making sure they don't make more.

Tanning Salons- Tax the fuck out of them. Seriously.

Lawyers- Once again- 96,000 Americans are killed every year because medical "professionals" make mistakes. Lawyers keep them on the up and up.

Most people injured by their caregivers don't sue. Usually trying to make it right is sufficient.

Lawyers aren't the problem.

Greedy doctors, greedy pharmacueitcal companies and greedy insurance companies are.

That and also, the 18 million "don't want it" figure may be true in the current context. If I have diabetes (thank God I do not--get everyone in your family checked for this killer disease) and I am uninsured I would like to get health insurance quite obviously. But I "don't want it" at a price that would destroy my house hold budget. Now if the price is lower due to a federal program or I leave my job but want to hold on to my insurance and continue seeing MY doctor or what have you...the calculus may change as to what I "want".

There are degrees of wanting anything. I want season tickets to the Cardinals in a luxury box. I don't want them at a rate of nearly $8,000 which is a thousand bucks per game. You cut that price to $1,500...then we'll talk.

And YOU are then one of the 4 million that want and need health insurance!

The solution I offered was simple!
People like you would be covered if the f...king lawyers that CAUSE $850 billion a year in claims for insurance companies to pay and as a result raise their premiums as you suggested!
You would show that you need coverage and the lawyers tax would pay for the insurance!
But there never have been 46 million truly uninsured that want insurance!
18 million can afford but don't want it!
14 million (maybe YOU???) can get it under Medicaid already!
10 million are not citizens! Why should they be covered and you aren't???

Point is when you comprehend that you could be covered by taxing these lawyers why are you resisting it?
Why are you defending this $850 billion a year the doctors say they bill because they are afraid of lawsuits?
Don't you comprehend that if this biggest cost driver was reduced... INS. premiums would drop!
After all WHO in the hell do you think PAYS these claims.. tooth fairies???
The $850 billion a year in defensive medicine physicians practice are PAID by insurance companies and Medicare!

PLEASE lady have some common sense and see the BIG picture here!
Again... tell me why 18 million people that pay their OWN health expenses must buy health insurance?
Tell me why 14 million people already covered by Medicaid are part of the "46 million" and that was used to pass by just 6 votes ACA?
Why was it necessary to include 10 million that are not citizens?
The truth is less then 4 million LIKE YOU that want and need could be covered by the $27 billion taxes on Lawyers!
Why are you against that???
 
Tax lawyers' $270 billion a year at 10%
WHERE ARE ALL the people that say this won't work????

60% of Senators are lawyers, and 37% of House members are lawyers.

lol, you're an idiot. Stop trolling.

HEY I don't disagree with your reasoning for WHY Tort reform wasn't in ACA!
YOU ARE RIGHT!!!

That doesn't though alter the FACTS!
THAT doesn't make me an idiot but shows how totally stupid you are for continuing to ask these representatives AND Obama to screw you over..."another one please sir"!!!
Just because I share the facts doesn't make me the f..king idiot here you dummy!
I am showing idiots like you the facts and you attack ME!
Wow!!! Intelligent!
 
"refutation"?

As a retired Life and Health insurance executive, I have seen all kinds of misinformation about my business over the last 50 to 60 years, but I do not recall seeing so MUCH misinformation in a single place, as appears in this OP.

Quite frankly, I would not even know where to begin to critique such a full load of BS. I think that the only hope would be a trepanning proceedure to drain the AM radio crap out, before proceeding further.
 
Where are the people who complain about the same thing being posted over and over again? :eusa_eh:
 
Step ONE. Stop using the number "46 million uninsured"!

There have NEVER been 46 million that want and are legally eligible for insurance!
When Obama said: "We are not a nation that accepts nearly 46 million uninsured men, women and children,"
HE Obviously with ALL the resources at his command STILL didn't want to admit that:

1) 10 million counted in his "46 million" WERE NOT citizens!!!
source:Income, Poverty and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2009 - Income & Wealth - Newsroom - U.S. Census Bureau

2) 14 million that say they are uninsured DON"T KNOW they are covered by Medicaid! He of ALL people should know THAT!!!
(NOTE : maybe that's why Obama is NOW saying "30 million"!!!
http://coverageforall.org/pdf/BC-BS_Uninsured-America.pdf

3) 18 million of the "46 million" don't want health insurance as they are under 34, make over $50k and spend less then their employer share!
source: CRISIS OF THE UNINSURED: 2009
AND this is where Obama et.al. are so dishonest! WHY FORCE 18 million people to buy something they don't NEED?

So there is really less the 4 million that need and want coverage
so WHY destroy the health system for the rest of the 99% of Americans?

Second STEP!
Recognize what doctors surveyed say they do ordering duplicate tests, or referrals, etc. i.e. "defensive medicine"!
90% of physicians say they order $850 billion a year in wasted duplicate tests, referrals all out of FEAR of being SUED!
Health News Observer ? Physicians Estimate The Cost Of Defensive Medicine In Us At 650 To 850 Bill Articles

Third Step!
Recognize Obamacare taxed tanning salons because of skin cancer!

Fourth Step!
Recognize that lawyers file lawsuits. Frivolous actions that physicians fear and therefore CAUSE the $850 billion in duplicate tests, etc.

Fifth Step:
Tax lawyers 10% on their $270 billion a year in revenues ..JUST like tanning salons and use that to:
pay a $5,000 premium for each of the 4 million truly uninsured!

Sixth Step:
Mandate hospitals that see this "uninsured" they register and send claims to the insurance company AND NOT pad and pass sometimes at 6,000% markup to Medicare/insurance companies...again adding to the costs!

That is the solution and it didn't cost ANYTHING from the middle class..
but the ambulance chasing, millionaire lawyers!

In summary:
Admit there are less the 4 million!
Tax lawyers' $270 billion a year at 10%
Use the $27 billion to cover the 4 million truly uninsured.
THEN watch the cost of health care plummet by $100 to $200 billion a year and these claims won't be sent to insurance companies and
Medicare!
Then watch insurance companies profits climb --AND YOU IDIOTS-- the insurance companies TAX payments INCREASE!
Then watch Medicare COSTS decline as less and less 6,000% markup "padded and passed" on claims are sent to Medicare!
Then watch insurance premiums decline!
Then watch more people affording their own health insurance.
Then watch MORE TAX revenue reduce the deficit!


AND then DON"T WATCH the destruction of health care for the rest of us!

NOW PLEASE REFUTE ANY of these points OK... Check out the sources OK... THEN tell me this isn't a great solution!!!

WHERE ARE ALL the people that say this won't work????

I think you are right about the number of uninusured. I believe the powers that be inflated the number so people would think there were oh so many out there suffering. There are a few. I worked in health care for 25 years. Yes, there are a few. But, the veterans are covered, the old are covered, the sick, lame, and lazy are covered. Medicaid could have been expanded to cover the working poor who can't get insurance without the assault that has occurred on our businesses and health care facilities. Anyone who thinks doctors and hospitals are not in self defense mode is delusional. They are merging to achieve power just like they did in TN when Tenncare hit. The market for NPs will open even more than it already is. Doctors will whine and complain, but ultimately they will keep doing what they are doing now.

THANK YOU!!!
All I know is it was totally BOGUS to include these people:
18 million under 34 making over $50k that pay their own way and if they don't they have a bad credit report!!!
14 million who don't know they are already qualified for Medicaid!
10 million that are NOT citizens.
That adds up to 42 million leaving 4 million truly that need health insurance!
But that was NEVER the objective of Obama! He wants to destroy health insurance companies!
He said so when he said: "I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program" !
You can't have 1,300 insurance companies if you have a SINGLE payer program.

Regardless of the costs overall i.e. insurance companies out of business means $100 billion in lost tax revenues!
Means 400,000 people laid off!
Did Obama think about that when he made the above statement?
OF course not because first and foremost he has NO love for capitalism!

Which is totally ignorant because if it WEREN'T for the Annenbergs' Profit making businesses there would be no Obama!
 
Come ON! Refute the above information... I see 5 people have read it.. WHERE are your arguments that this won't work? Or that my information is incorrect???

I mean now even Obama is saying 30 million are uninsured!

No one is going to refute the facts. They had to lie and make it appear there was a health care crisis in order to shove the health care reform bill through. The way they did it is totally unconstitutional since the house did not vote on it and they must pass all revenue raising bills.

Aside from that, the law itself does not do a damn thing to help the uninsured. That was never the intent. It is merely a means of transforming a great deal of power from the people to government. It's a necessary step to eventual socialism of America. Reid already admitted what we knew all along and that is their plan to have single payer health insurance. The ones who were in on the drafting of the health care legislation knew it would be a disaster and they intend for people to panic once they realize how it will affect them, then they will claim the only way to fix it is to allow government to abolish private insurance and go to socialized medicine.

There is going to be some really tough times ahead with Obamacare, which is why congress, the IRS, some of the 1%ers and unions want out of it. I believe congress is already exempt and IRS employees will be soon. Once the temporary waivers expire, I expect that the wealthy companies and unions will also be exempt. Muslims are exempt because they claim it's gambling and against their religion. That will not prevent them from being covered at the tax payers expense.

Virtually everything said over and over about the bill when they were pushing it through were lies. They knew they were lying, but had to in order to convince enough people that it would work. Of course, even the idiots voting for it didn't have any idea what was in it. Many still don't and those who have began the difficult task of sorting through thousands of pages of the bill are turning against it and demanding to be exempt. The only people who won't be let off the hook are the poor and middle class, who will foot the bill. Many still believe they will be getting free health care. I guess Medicaid wasn't good enough for them.

For the few that did want insurance, but couldn't afford it, we could have expanded Medicaid. Of course, that wouldn't have allowed for the Obama administration to steal more power from the people, which was the main goal.

Liberal politicians have been good about promising everything to their constituents and telling them the evil wealthy will foot the bill. Even though none of them are better off for all the policies, I guess they feel good thinking that government is attacking the wealthy. Class envy and getting even are apparently more important to some than actually improving their own lot in life.
 
Where are the people who complain about the same thing being posted over and over again? :eusa_eh:

It will continue as long as idiots can't understand that
18 million people who make over $50k pay their own health costs but they are falsely included to inflate the 46 million number!
14 million people that don't know they are eligible for Medicaid are also falsely included!
10 million that are not citizens are included!

When you and all the other idiots comprehend that Obamacare was passed to destroy our health care system by ONLY 6 votes that
thought there were like you still obviously do they were helping 46 million Then I'll STOP!

My personal expenses are being affected by Obamacare and if the figures above were comprehended in one simple bill..
Tax lawyers 10% like they did tanning salons and use the $27 billion in taxes to pay the premiums for 4 million people that wanted and were
eligible for the insurance THAT would be the way to go!
It would lower the $850 billion a year wasted because doctors fear lawsuits!
It would lower hospitals having to pad and pass the uninsured costs sometimes 6,000% on to Medicare and insurance companies!
It would cut insurance companies claim costs and as a result premiums would drop!

SEE MOST of you don't know STATES regulate what companies can charge on premiums BASED on claim experiences!
So if the 1300 insurance companies see a reduction in claims' expenses i.e. the $850 billion plus hospitals no more padding/passing thee companies under STATE laws must lower their premiums!!

Do you understand that?? Lowering Defensive medicine and padding and passing by hospitals would FORCE insurance companies
under state regulations to LOWER THEIR PREMIUMS!!!
 
Step ONE. Stop using the number "46 million uninsured"!

There have NEVER been 46 million that want and are legally eligible for insurance!
When Obama said: "We are not a nation that accepts nearly 46 million uninsured men, women and children,"
HE Obviously with ALL the resources at his command STILL didn't want to admit that:

1) 10 million counted in his "46 million" WERE NOT citizens!!!
source:Income, Poverty and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2009 - Income & Wealth - Newsroom - U.S. Census Bureau

2) 14 million that say they are uninsured DON"T KNOW they are covered by Medicaid! He of ALL people should know THAT!!!
(NOTE : maybe that's why Obama is NOW saying "30 million"!!!
http://coverageforall.org/pdf/BC-BS_Uninsured-America.pdf

3) 18 million of the "46 million" don't want health insurance as they are under 34, make over $50k and spend less then their employer share!
source: CRISIS OF THE UNINSURED: 2009
AND this is where Obama et.al. are so dishonest! WHY FORCE 18 million people to buy something they don't NEED?

So there is really less the 4 million that need and want coverage
so WHY destroy the health system for the rest of the 99% of Americans?

Second STEP!
Recognize what doctors surveyed say they do ordering duplicate tests, or referrals, etc. i.e. "defensive medicine"!
90% of physicians say they order $850 billion a year in wasted duplicate tests, referrals all out of FEAR of being SUED!
Health News Observer ? Physicians Estimate The Cost Of Defensive Medicine In Us At 650 To 850 Bill Articles

Third Step!
Recognize Obamacare taxed tanning salons because of skin cancer!

Fourth Step!
Recognize that lawyers file lawsuits. Frivolous actions that physicians fear and therefore CAUSE the $850 billion in duplicate tests, etc.

Fifth Step:
Tax lawyers 10% on their $270 billion a year in revenues ..JUST like tanning salons and use that to:
pay a $5,000 premium for each of the 4 million truly uninsured!

Sixth Step:
Mandate hospitals that see this "uninsured" they register and send claims to the insurance company AND NOT pad and pass sometimes at 6,000% markup to Medicare/insurance companies...again adding to the costs!

That is the solution and it didn't cost ANYTHING from the middle class..
but the ambulance chasing, millionaire lawyers!

In summary:
Admit there are less the 4 million!
Tax lawyers' $270 billion a year at 10%
Use the $27 billion to cover the 4 million truly uninsured.
THEN watch the cost of health care plummet by $100 to $200 billion a year and these claims won't be sent to insurance companies and
Medicare!
Then watch insurance companies profits climb --AND YOU IDIOTS-- the insurance companies TAX payments INCREASE!
Then watch Medicare COSTS decline as less and less 6,000% markup "padded and passed" on claims are sent to Medicare!
Then watch insurance premiums decline!
Then watch more people affording their own health insurance.
Then watch MORE TAX revenue reduce the deficit!


AND then DON"T WATCH the destruction of health care for the rest of us!

NOW PLEASE REFUTE ANY of these points OK... Check out the sources OK... THEN tell me this isn't a great solution!!!

WHERE ARE ALL the people that say this won't work????

So you seem to be under the impression that 10 million illegals never go to the emergency room and that we never end up paying for them anyway. You also seem to be under the impression that 18 million who choose not to purchase insurance never need it and never get sick to the point that they cannot pay for their own medical care. Unfortunately, that is just not true.

In the end we all pay for these uninsured people.

So the solution is to force them to buy insurance for premiums they can't afford and we'll subsidize those premiums and thus...pay for all these uninsured people? Really?
 
Tax lawyers' $270 billion a year at 10%
WHERE ARE ALL the people that say this won't work????

60% of Senators are lawyers, and 37% of House members are lawyers.

lol, you're an idiot. Stop trolling.

HEY I don't disagree with your reasoning for WHY Tort reform wasn't in ACA!
YOU ARE RIGHT!!!

That doesn't though alter the FACTS!
THAT doesn't make me an idiot but shows how totally stupid you are for continuing to ask these representatives AND Obama to screw you over..."another one please sir"!!!
Just because I share the facts doesn't make me the f..king idiot here you dummy!
I am showing idiots like you the facts and you attack ME!
Wow!!! Intelligent!

Your main question was why it wouldn't work. I answered you. It can't work if it can't be implemented,

which is a fact. And that's without even debating the issue of whether or not it would 'work' if it were implemented.

You might as well have come up with a plan to make healthcare cheaper by passing a law banning getting sick.
 
Tax lawyers' $270 billion a year at 10%
WHERE ARE ALL the people that say this won't work????

60% of Senators are lawyers, and 37% of House members are lawyers.

lol, you're an idiot. Stop trolling.

HEY I don't disagree with your reasoning for WHY Tort reform wasn't in ACA!
YOU ARE RIGHT!!!

That doesn't though alter the FACTS!
THAT doesn't make me an idiot but shows how totally stupid you are for continuing to ask these representatives AND Obama to screw you over..."another one please sir"!!!
Just because I share the facts doesn't make me the f..king idiot here you dummy!
I am showing idiots like you the facts and you attack ME!
Wow!!! Intelligent!


"Tort reform" is not patient oriented. Allowing providers to be less accountable will not improve health care. Just because you take away someone's access to the courts doesn't mean things are going to get better. They are not. I won't say I've seen it all because when I do, I see something worse. But I've seen a lot. Americans need to retain the right to pursue medical negligence through legal means.
 
60% of Senators are lawyers, and 37% of House members are lawyers.

lol, you're an idiot. Stop trolling.

HEY I don't disagree with your reasoning for WHY Tort reform wasn't in ACA!
YOU ARE RIGHT!!!

That doesn't though alter the FACTS!
THAT doesn't make me an idiot but shows how totally stupid you are for continuing to ask these representatives AND Obama to screw you over..."another one please sir"!!!
Just because I share the facts doesn't make me the f..king idiot here you dummy!
I am showing idiots like you the facts and you attack ME!
Wow!!! Intelligent!


"Tort reform" is not patient oriented. Allowing providers to be less accountable will not improve health care. Just because you take away someone's access to the courts doesn't mean things are going to get better. They are not. I won't say I've seen it all because when I do, I see something worse. But I've seen a lot. Americans need to retain the right to pursue medical negligence through legal means.

No one is talking about not allowing people who have been legitimately hurt by a patient provider from suing.
We are talking about reforms that limit damages to actual damage and cap pain and suffering at some reasonable level. The result is lower premiums for malpractice insurance and better care for patients, as doctors aren't ordering test after test just to cover themselves.
 
No one is talking about not allowing people who have been legitimately hurt by a patient provider from suing.
We are talking about reforms that limit damages to actual damage and cap pain and suffering at some reasonable level. The result is lower premiums for malpractice insurance and better care for patients, as doctors aren't ordering test after test just to cover themselves.

Most states already cap awards for noneconomic damages.

Cuthbert-Law-Infographic-Medical-Malpractice-December-2012.jpg


They haven't been particularly effective. So either defensive medicine is mythical, or it's going to take something other than approaches that are already in widespread use (i.e. caps on noneconomic damages) to stem it.

There's a paper this very month in Health Affairs exploring the latter possibility.

Previous comparisons of states with and without tort reforms (such as caps on damages, limits on attorney’s fees, and reductions in the time that plaintiffs have to file a claim) suggest that the presence of tort reforms does little to limit use of health care. This has led to inferences that the total cost of defensive medicine is low.23 An alternative explanation, empirically supported by previous work, is that the kinds of tort reforms that states have adopted to date do not appreciably reduce physicians’ level of malpractice concern,6 and it is perceived rather than actual risk that determines how physicians behave.

Policy approaches that target the underlying causes of physicians’ malpractice concerns might reduce defensive medicine more effectively than current estimates suggest. Being sued is associated with substantial distress for physicians, but tort reforms are generally aimed at lowering the cost of eventual payouts to the exclusion of other approaches. Physicians’ extreme dread of malpractice litigation may stem from their perception that it is unpredictable, uncontrollable, and potentially disastrous both financially and psychologically.6

To achieve this goal [reassuring physicians that medical injuries can be resolved expeditiously and fairly, in a less adversarial manner], reforms need to facilitate communication between physicians and patients about why adverse outcomes occurred; to explain, in some cases, that the standard of care was met; to provide reasonable compensation rapidly when it was not met; and to keep disputes from escalating into full-blown litigation. Several approaches are promising.23 Communication-and-resolution programs, in which health care institutions proactively disclose errors, apologize, and offer compensation before the patient files a claim, could reduce the numbers and costs of lawsuits and speed the process of resolution. So could expanded use of mediation.

Another, farther-reaching reform would be to replace litigation in the courts with an administrative compensation system, akin to workers compensation. Administrative compensation proposals typically suggest that patients should not have to prove that their providers were negligent, only that their injury could have been avoided in an optimal system of care. Although politically challenging, such proposals are appealing because trying to avoid the emotional distress of being labeled as negligent may drive a great deal of defensive behavior among physicians.

A final approach is to give care providers a strong defense to allegations of malpractice, known as a “safe harbor,” if they can show that they followed an applicable, well-accepted, evidence-based practice guideline. By promoting national, evidence-based standards of care, instead of holding physicians to the prevailing standard in their state or community, safe harbors also have the potential to reduce geographic variation in the provision of some services.33

Food for thought.
 
OP- Pure Pubcrappe spam, all proven BS. Those illegals, young people, and those who "pay their own bills" LOL are all freeloaders who have no doctor or preventive medicine, go to the ER for accidents and illnesses and cost EVERYONE more (not to mention the bankruptcies that cost the country too). STUPID!

ACA DOES do anti-malpractice measures, as much as they could and still pass it- care guidelines that protect doctors and hospitals. If Pub REALLY want more, why don't they bring them up to be added? Because they're FOS! Like HMyths LOL.
 
Last edited:

Forum List

Back
Top