I love it! CHURCH VOWS WAR ON OBAMA 'FIGHT IN STREETS'

It applies to the church itself. It is forcing the church to pay for things they do not support ideologically.

It's crossing the separation of church and state line that the lefties whine about all the time when they are "forced" to flip past a channel with a preacher on it, or when they are "forced" to listen to a politician state anything about his faith.

The Church itself is exempt.

The Catholic church chose to start businesses in the US. The first requirement of running a business in the US is compliance with US business/labor/commerce law.

btw, the 'church' in running these businesses, is already accepting the fact that they are paying for contraception and abortions when they give employees a paycheck. They can't control how the paycheck is spent.
 
Show me where the Catholic Church won't provide circumscisions in their hospitals.

EXACTLY!! Circumcision is condemned by the church, but they have no problem making it available to people. Why is birth control such an issue?

Circumcision does not deal with life, I personally don't have a problem with birth control which prevents a pregnancy, but once it happens no one should be forced to support termination of that pregnancy

Oh, let me try this.....Nobody should be force to support.....planting an herb garden. Okay, now let's get back to the actual topic and leave the irrelevant comments out of it.
 
The government has no business forcing BUSINESSES to provide such things.

And forcing businesses (Saint Vincent de Paul is a business run by the church....Salvation Army.....charity hospitals....to engage in eugenic practices is beyond reprehensible, and unconstitutional besides.
 
It will be when it affects your life though, huh? Then you'll get all whiny about it and wonder why no one's there to fight for you.... it'll be because you stood by and watched while they systematically destroyed those who would.

Wrong. This is called hyperbole.

Obama got the Catholic vote. You forgot?

This is more just about Right versus left, same as it always was. Cry me a fucking river.

He got 54% of it. Last time. This time? Maybe - but maybe not.

This is not about conservative or liberal. It is about the First Amendment. Either you support it or you don't. You don't. I do. Or rather, you support it for you, but not for me.

54% of Catholics voted for the pro-choice Democrat?

Oh my.
 
It will be when it affects your life though, huh? Then you'll get all whiny about it and wonder why no one's there to fight for you.... it'll be because you stood by and watched while they systematically destroyed those who would.

Wrong. This is called hyperbole.

Obama got the Catholic vote. You forgot?

This is more just about Right versus left, same as it always was. Cry me a fucking river.

He got 54% of it. Last time. This time? Maybe - but maybe not.

This is not about conservative or liberal. It is about the First Amendment. Either you support it or you don't. You don't. I do. Or rather, you support it for you, but not for me.

This has nothing to do with the first amendment. This is about the regulation of BUSINESS, not of the CHURCH. The church itself was exempted.
 
The government has no business forcing BUSINESSES to provide such things.

And forcing businesses (Saint Vincent de Paul is a business run by the church....Salvation Army.....charity hospitals....to engage in eugenic practices is beyond reprehensible, and unconstitutional besides.

Then where is the SCOTUS ruling on it?
 
Ok, so you admit that opposing contraception isn't really a Christian article of faith, or a teaching that is based in scripture,

but instead is one of those peculiar bits of dogma that manage to arbitrarily appear in most organized religions.

So what then gives it such grand status that it ought to be grounds for altering the law of the land and discriminating against American workers??

What's the greater good?

it's called being "Pro-Life"......where's the "greater good" in being pro-death....?

Spin.

It is not pro death.

It is pro choice.

Not all see a fetus as a living human being. When life begins is the debate....not whether or not it is OK to kill a living human being

stupid lib...talk about spin....what do you think pro-choice actually means....?

a choice between 1. Life and 2. Death
 
Are liberals depending on the fact that a lot of Catholics use birth control to support this infringement on religion? That would be a mistake. Even if they USE birth control, even if a Catholic woman has an abortion, she is still highly unlikely to vote to uphold paying for someone else's birth control and abortion.

Catholics aren't monlithic, so saying they wouldn't vote to pay is a blanket statement that doesn't hold up under closer inspection. Besides, if you're paying for insurance privately, you're already paying for someone's elses abortions, even if you don't believe in it yourself.
 
Wrong. This is called hyperbole.

Obama got the Catholic vote. You forgot?

This is more just about Right versus left, same as it always was. Cry me a fucking river.

He got 54% of it. Last time. This time? Maybe - but maybe not.

This is not about conservative or liberal. It is about the First Amendment. Either you support it or you don't. You don't. I do. Or rather, you support it for you, but not for me.

54% of Catholics voted for the pro-choice Democrat?

Oh my.

And 44% of the Military voted for an America hater, in accordance to koshergirl and crusaderfrank's beliefs. :cuckoo:
 
Wrong. This is called hyperbole.

Obama got the Catholic vote. You forgot?

This is more just about Right versus left, same as it always was. Cry me a fucking river.

He got 54% of it. Last time. This time? Maybe - but maybe not.

This is not about conservative or liberal. It is about the First Amendment. Either you support it or you don't. You don't. I do. Or rather, you support it for you, but not for me.

This has nothing to do with the first amendment. This is about the regulation of BUSINESS, not of the CHURCH. The church itself was exempted.

Catholic run non profits, because it is our Christian duty to do so. Therefore, it is covered under the First Amendment.
 
The point is, freedom of religion means that the government cannot force a church to act against its beliefs, so long as those beliefs are not doing harm.

Having unwanted children that one cannot afford certainly constitutes "harm."

This is exactly what I knew would come of bullshit "abortion rights".

BIRTH CONTROL, YOU STUPID MOTHER FUCKER!!!
 
Really, and in what universe can Obama FORCE a Catholic organization to provide birth control??

In what universe can the federal government under orders from that fuck Obama SUE A FUCKING STATE??

In what universe can the federal government FORCE an individual to buy a product or service?

You ever hear of the Tenth Amendment tyrant??

You may be conservative but that doesn't make you a patriot who respects the Bill of Rights..

Nick the Catholic orgs aren't offering birth control to the public. The employees benefit packages are being altered to include the coverage as an option. If Catholics who work for these companies don't want birth control, they don't buy it. Please don't say non-Catholics shouldn't work for Catholic institutions. Healthcare is a global business. Surgeons are recruted from around the world and hospitals are pleased to welcome them aboard regardless of their devotion.

And in what universe does the federal government have the power to force a private business to offer a service??

Not to mention a private charity..

What cant the federal government do???

Does the federal government have any limitations??

It is not service and it is not a charity.
 
He got 54% of it. Last time. This time? Maybe - but maybe not.

This is not about conservative or liberal. It is about the First Amendment. Either you support it or you don't. You don't. I do. Or rather, you support it for you, but not for me.

This has nothing to do with the first amendment. This is about the regulation of BUSINESS, not of the CHURCH. The church itself was exempted.

Catholic run non profits, because it is our Christian duty to do so. Therefore, it is covered under the First Amendment.

You cant usurp law hiding behind religion. Like I said, if that were the case, we could all establish our own unique and funky religions, and Rastafarians would be twisting fat blunts and smoking them on the sidewalks. That's a ridiculous contention.
 
The government has no business forcing BUSINESSES to provide such things.

And forcing businesses (Saint Vincent de Paul is a business run by the church....Salvation Army.....charity hospitals....to engage in eugenic practices is beyond reprehensible, and unconstitutional besides.

Eugenics is a program by which authorities make decisions on procreation. What we're talking about are PRIVATE decisions paid for by insurance or government. Hardly the same thing.
 
Would 'you people' (and you'll know who I mean) support a Muslim community in the US imposing Sharia law,

and then declaring that any US law, including laws regulating business, that conflicted with Sharia would henceforth be null and void in that community?

That's religious freedom, right??? That's a pure exercise of the 1st amendment, right?
 
Science says life begins at fertilization.
So therefore abortion is murder. A life for a life.
God instructs us that we do not know when the soul enters the infant during pregnancy.
He does not want us to know, so that we don't have a whole bunch of abortions.

Exodus 21:22-23

English Standard Version (ESV)

22 “When men strive together and hit a pregnant woman, so that her children come out, but there is no harm, the one who hit her shall surely be fined, as the woman's husband shall impose on him, and he shall pay as the judges determine.
23 But if there is harm, then you shall pay life for life.
 
The point is, freedom of religion means that the government cannot force a church to act against its beliefs, so long as those beliefs are not doing harm.

This is exactly what I knew would come of bullshit "abortion rights". The next will be forcing the clergy to perform marriages for anyone who asks, regardless of their faith or their practices.

In essence, Obama's attempting to bring the church to heel. He is exerting control over religion, which is about as anti-american as you can get.

What scum he is. I can't say what an awful feeling it is to have an anti-American president.

This law does not apply to the Church itself. It applies to businesses run by the Church.

This is about the Church having decided to be more than a church, but to also get into various businesses...

...when you make that choice, you must to a great extent check your religion at the door. The laws of running a business in the US are with very very few exceptions trump over religious preferences that conflict with those laws.

and the more Obamacare controls businesses the better.....? :cuckoo:

stepping on business as well as religion is not what America is all about....
 
No, because religious rights cannot trump the law. If it's illegal to smoke dope, churches can't pass out joints.

But it is not LAW that businesses fund abortions and population control. This is oppression. And it's the state interfering with religion besides.
 
it's called being "Pro-Life"......where's the "greater good" in being pro-death....?

Spin.

It is not pro death.

It is pro choice.

Not all see a fetus as a living human being. When life begins is the debate....not whether or not it is OK to kill a living human being

stupid lib...talk about spin....what do you think pro-choice actually means....?

a choice between 1. Life and 2. Death

True...

But ONLY if you see the fetus as a live human being.

I do.....and thus why I would not particiapte in abortion...

But I also recognize that many do NOT see the fetus as a living human being while in the first tri mestr...I disagree with them...but I respect their opinion..

So I will not play that game and call it "pro death"...for if they truly saw the fetus as a living human being, they would not be for aboirtion.

You do not need to agree with them...but if you spent a little time understanding WY they think what they think, you would likely give them a much more convincing argument.

Again...this is not a debate over whether or not a living human being should be killed while in the womb.

It is a debate over WHEN LIFE STARTS.
 

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