I read this post on another forum and am interested in feedback based on the Christian Bible

[Colin norris]

I think the author is a heretic but his post is interesting nonetheless. I just don't recall any biblical verses that back up what he's saying. Do you know of any? Here is what he wrote:

When Satan realized God was going to sacrifice Himself, he tried to stop it, and ((inhabiting Judas)) threw the 30 pieces of silver back.
Satan led a small army to Gethsemane, and Christ flattened them, including Satan himself in Judas, by uttering His name. it was not Satan's intent to seize Christ but to force His hand - and Satan did not realize that Christ is God until that moment. Satan isn't stupid - he's more clever than any of God's creation. he knew Jesus could walk right through a crowd of guards trying to seize Him. he knew Jesus was full of power and could command even the water and the wind - He showed complete command over all of physical creation. so what does Satan think a hundred men with swords and clubs are going to do? does he think they are any kind of threat to the Messiah?? he is not stupid.
he expected to force Jesus to start an insurrection, calling fire down to destroy them or something. Satan wanted Peter to draw his sword; Jesus told him to put it away, and healed Malchus' ear.

at the cross the Lord defeated Satan by laying down His life. Satan ain't out to get defeated. he thought Jesus was only an anointed man, not divine, and sought to cause Him to fall. he did not know He is God until God chose to reveal Himself, saying I AM and rendering Satan utterly powerless.

people are evil all by themselves; Satan didn't make humanity reject the light and love darkness. humans will do that even with Satan imprisoned for a thousand years and Christ seated on the throne - people will reject God even with certain knowledge that He is God. the devil didn't 'make you do it'

The first sentence coaxed me to go no further. Satan, who does not exist but to frighten gullible minds, wasn't told your silly Jesus was to be crucified. How could he have been. It didn't happen because he didn't exist.

And if he did get told, how could you possibly know it to be factual?
Did they live next door. Why would Jesus tell his arch enemy?
It makes no sense.

Read some phantom comics. It makes more sense and is full of the same silly stories.

 

[Iamartiewhitefox]

The first sentence coaxed me to go no further. Satan, who does not exist but to frighten gullible minds, wasn't told your silly Jesus was to be crucified. How could he have been. It didn't happen because he didn't exist.

And if he did get told, how could you possibly know it to be factual?
Did they live next door. Why would Jesus tell his arch enemy?
It makes no sense.

Read some phantom comics. It makes more sense and is full of the same silly stories.

You are right. The person who wrote that is nuts. Satan knew that Jesus was God wanting to steal the throne that Jesus sits on. Jesus, doing what Satan wanted would have made Jesus to lose.

 

[Colin norris]

You are right. The person who wrote that is nuts. Satan knew that Jesus was God wanting to steal the throne that Jesus sits on. Jesus, doing what Satan wanted would have made Jesus to lose.

You have no record or evidence of what your fictitious Satan said or did. You only think you know because it suits your silly religion.

Your silly God doesn't sit on anything. Thrre is No God and never has been. You're delusional and hallucinating.

 

[buttercup]

You have no record or evidence of what your fictitious Satan said or did. You only think you know because it suits your silly religion.

Your silly God doesn't sit on anything. Thrre is No God and never has been. You're delusional and hallucinating.

This isn’t a thread on the existence of God. Read the original post, he wasn’t aiming it at nonbelievers. You’re off-topic.

 

[Colin norris]

This isn’t a thread on the existence of God. Read the original post, he wasn’t aiming it at nonbelievers. You’re off-topic.

If it's ok with you, I'll say what I like and I don't care what you think.
Mind your own business and don't instruct me to do anything.
It might be you're a silly godbotherer that upset you.

 

[Iamartiewhitefox]

You have no record or evidence of what your fictitious Satan said or did. You only think you know because it suits your silly religion.

Your silly God doesn't sit on anything. Thrre is No God and never has been. You're delusional and hallucinating.

People will hear the kind gentle reasonably minded Jesus, who is easily intreated, or they will not. The battle is for the mind. Our conversation is heard in heaven. It would be good for you to clean up what you say. It talks about the throne Jesus sits on, and what his body looks like. Satan, in the church made Satan to be red, knowing what is in scripture. The church lies. I say the truth.

 

[Colin norris]

People will hear the kind gentle reasonably minded Jesus, who is easily intreated, or they will not. The battle is for the mind. Our conversation is heard in heaven.
No it's not. That just another projection by you attempting to intimidate me. You have no knowledge of this conversation being heard anywhere. You're stark raving mad.


It would be good for you to clean up what you say. It talks about the throne Jesus sits on, and what his body looks like.

I'll speak and describe you as I see fit and won't be intimidated by your mealy mouthed words. I don't care what your hideous filthy God thinks or what you say he looks like. How could you possibly know anything about a God that doesn't exist. You suffer delusions if you do.

Satan, in the church made Satan to be red, knowing what is in scripture. The church lies. I say the truth.

All you say is bullshit you invented yourself. The scriptures are dictated by illiterate fools and prophets and have the same validity as pure air.
From those sources it's impossible to know the truth let alone tell it.

You're not dealing with an amateur here son. I've done over hundreds of godbotherers and you will leave before me.

 

[onefour1]

A plan was laid out by our Father in Heaven that we would all come down to this earth as mortals and experience good and evil in hopes that we would choose the good over the evil. We were to have free will to choose because the nature of progression is to learn to be a good being in and of ourselves. This requires that we of ourselves choose to be a good being. God knew that we were not perfect beings and that we would make mistakes along this path. Thus he provided a means whereby we could be redeemed from our bad choices by repenting and receiving forgiveness of our sins. For this to happen, a Savior was needed. I don't think that it was well understood how this salvation would take place however. God did ask his children, "whom shall I send to be the Savior?". Two individuals volunteered for the task.

Abraham 3:22-28
22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones;

23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.

24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;

25 And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;

26 And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever.

27 And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will send the first.

28 And the second was angry, and kept not his first estate; and, at that day, many followed after him.

In the above verse we read of God the Father asking, "Whom shall I send?". He is asking who will volunteer to be the Savior. Jesus first volunteers for the task but Lucifer also volunteers but is rejected. Lucifer becomes angry and gets others to follow after him. In another place we read about things that occurred before we came to this earth.

Moses 4:1-4
1 And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor.

2 But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto me—Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever.

3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;

4 And he became Satan, yea, even the devil, the father of all lies, to deceive and to blind men, and to lead them captive at his will, even as many as would not hearken unto my voice.

Here we learn that Satan (Lucifer) not only volunteered to be the Savior but had his own plan that he would save all, that not one soul would be lost. His plan was to take away mankind's free will and force all to be good beings. This of course would not work because in order to truly become a good being, one must choose in and of himself to be a good being. Taking away mankind's free will would never accomplish what God wanted for mankind. We would simply be forced to do good and not be able to choose it in and of ourselves. Satan (Lucifer) was very proud of his plan and thought it was better than the plan of God and sought to take the honor of God and his power. When God heard the plan of Jesus Christ who only sought to do the will of the Father, he chose Jesus over Lucifer. It was then that Lucifer rebelled against the Father and sought to convince all the spirit children of the Father to choose him as their God and to follow his plan over that of the Father's. He was very influential and managed to convince 1/3 of all the hosts of heaven to follow after him. This was the War in Heaven. God caused that Satan and his followers (angels) should be cast out of heaven into the earth. Jesus who sought to follow the will of the Father was chosen to be the Savior.

Even though God set forth to choose a Savior before the foundation of the world, I don't think that Satan fully understood how this was to be accomplished here on this earth. Because his plan was rejected and he because he rebelled against God, he was cast into the earth to tempt mankind toward evil. Satan's whole plan on this earth is to thwart God's plan and destroy the works of righteousness. However, I don't believe he understood how God would accomplish is plan here upon the earth. Satan understood that Jesus was to come to this earth to be a Savior but didn't fully comprehend how this was to be accomplished. Thus at every turn he has sought to turn God's children away from keeping his commandments and to do evil. All the time thinking to thwart the plan of the Father. When he saw Jesus come into the world, he tried to get Jesus to follow after him but failed. I think he then thought that if he could destroy Jesus by having him killed, he could then thwart God's plan. Thus he worked very hard on those Jews, Pharasees, etc of those days to be jealous of the power of Jesus and to seek his death.

What Satan did not understand was that the Son of God was a being who never sinned and by killing him he would commit the greatest injustice ever to be committed. Satan was allowed to bring upon Jesus the greatest amount of suffering ever to be suffered. No ordinary mortal man could have suffered for all the sins of the world and lived through it. But Jesus, being born of an immortal Father and never ever falling into sin in this world had the power within him to go through all the suffering of the sins of all mankind and still walk out of the Garden of Gethsemane. However, Jesus also being born of a mortal woman, had the capacity to lay down his life if he so chose to do so.

John 10:17-18
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Satan got his minions to seek the death of Jesus but I was really Jesus alone who chose to lay down his life. Jesus was a perfect and sinless sacrifice. He did no sin and never deserved any of the wickedness that was brought upon him. Thus the suffering and death of Jesus was not justified. The greatest of all injustices was brought upon him by Satan and his followers. Because an infinite and Holy being suffered and died the greatest injustice was done. Now according to the justice of God, would not the Christ deserve a recompense for the injustice he bore? Would not Jesus deserve a recompense to the extent of the injustice he bore when he took on the sins of all the world? YES!!! And his recompense was that he could forgive mankind of their sins and allow them to return unto the presence of God if they would only repent of their sins. Jesus accomplished the atonement and won the right to forgive all who draw unto him. I think if Satan had understood this principle, he would not have sought the suffering and death of Jesus Christ. He did what he did out of ignorance and hatred but all the while he was being used by God to bring about God eternal plan of redemption. Satan still thinks that he can thwart the plan of God by getting all of us to disobey God and fall short of the kingdom of heaven. But free will must be held inviolate and we must be allowed to choose in and of ourselves to be good beings. Thus those who list to obey Satan and reject the gospel of Jesus Christ will do so at their own free will and choice. But those who choose to follow Jesus and apply the plan of redemption in their lives will become heirs of eternal life. Satan may be clever but he is no match for the infinite and eternal wisdom of our Father and God. Had Satan understood the plan of redemption fully, he likely would have avoided turning those who sought the life of Jesus against him.

Our first estate was in the premortal world of spirits. All of us who come to this earth and receive a body were valiant in the War in Heaven. Those who did not keep their first estate were Satan and his angels. We are now in our second estate and if we prove faithful, we can receive immortality and eternal life in the world to come.

 

[BULLDOG]

A plan was laid out by our Father in Heaven that we would all come down to this earth as mortals and experience good and evil in hopes that we would choose the good over the evil. We were to have free will to choose because the nature of progression is to learn to be a good being in and of ourselves. This requires that we of ourselves choose to be a good being. God knew that we were not perfect beings and that we would make mistakes along this path. Thus he provided a means whereby we could be redeemed from our bad choices by repenting and receiving forgiveness of our sins. For this to happen, a Savior was needed. I don't think that it was well understood how this salvation would take place however. God did ask his children, "whom shall I send to be the Savior?". Two individuals volunteered for the task.

Abraham 3:22-28
22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones;

23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.

24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;

25 And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;

26 And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever.

27 And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will send the first.

28 And the second was angry, and kept not his first estate; and, at that day, many followed after him.

In the above verse we read of God the Father asking, "Whom shall I send?". He is asking who will volunteer to be the Savior. Jesus first volunteers for the task but Lucifer also volunteers but is rejected. Lucifer becomes angry and gets others to follow after him. In another place we read about things that occurred before we came to this earth.

Moses 4:1-4
1 And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor.

2 But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto me—Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever.

3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;

4 And he became Satan, yea, even the devil, the father of all lies, to deceive and to blind men, and to lead them captive at his will, even as many as would not hearken unto my voice.

Here we learn that Satan (Lucifer) not only volunteered to be the Savior but had his own plan that he would save all, that not one soul would be lost. His plan was to take away mankind's free will and force all to be good beings. This of course would not work because in order to truly become a good being, one must choose in and of himself to be a good being. Taking away mankind's free will would never accomplish what God wanted for mankind. We would simply be forced to do good and not be able to choose it in and of ourselves. Satan (Lucifer) was very proud of his plan and thought it was better than the plan of God and sought to take the honor of God and his power. When God heard the plan of Jesus Christ who only sought to do the will of the Father, he chose Jesus over Lucifer. It was then that Lucifer rebelled against the Father and sought to convince all the spirit children of the Father to choose him as their God and to follow his plan over that of the Father's. He was very influential and managed to convince 1/3 of all the hosts of heaven to follow after him. This was the War in Heaven. God caused that Satan and his followers (angels) should be cast out of heaven into the earth. Jesus who sought to follow the will of the Father was chosen to be the Savior.

Even though God set forth to choose a Savior before the foundation of the world, I don't think that Satan fully understood how this was to be accomplished here on this earth. Because his plan was rejected and he because he rebelled against God, he was cast into the earth to tempt mankind toward evil. Satan's whole plan on this earth is to thwart God's plan and destroy the works of righteousness. However, I don't believe he understood how God would accomplish is plan here upon the earth. Satan understood that Jesus was to come to this earth to be a Savior but didn't fully comprehend how this was to be accomplished. Thus at every turn he has sought to turn God's children away from keeping his commandments and to do evil. All the time thinking to thwart the plan of the Father. When he saw Jesus come into the world, he tried to get Jesus to follow after him but failed. I think he then thought that if he could destroy Jesus by having him killed, he could then thwart God's plan. Thus he worked very hard on those Jews, Pharasees, etc of those days to be jealous of the power of Jesus and to seek his death.

What Satan did not understand was that the Son of God was a being who never sinned and by killing him he would commit the greatest injustice ever to be committed. Satan was allowed to bring upon Jesus the greatest amount of suffering ever to be suffered. No ordinary mortal man could have suffered for all the sins of the world and lived through it. But Jesus, being born of an immortal Father and never ever falling into sin in this world had the power within him to go through all the suffering of the sins of all mankind and still walk out of the Garden of Gethsemane. However, Jesus also being born of a mortal woman, had the capacity to lay down his life if he so chose to do so.

John 10:17-18
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Satan got his minions to seek the death of Jesus but I was really Jesus alone who chose to lay down his life. Jesus was a perfect and sinless sacrifice. He did no sin and never deserved any of the wickedness that was brought upon him. Thus the suffering and death of Jesus was not justified. The greatest of all injustices was brought upon him by Satan and his followers. Because an infinite and Holy being suffered and died the greatest injustice was done. Now according to the justice of God, would not the Christ deserve a recompense for the injustice he bore? Would not Jesus deserve a recompense to the extent of the injustice he bore when he took on the sins of all the world? YES!!! And his recompense was that he could forgive mankind of their sins and allow them to return unto the presence of God if they would only repent of their sins. Jesus accomplished the atonement and won the right to forgive all who draw unto him. I think if Satan had understood this principle, he would not have sought the suffering and death of Jesus Christ. He did what he did out of ignorance and hatred but all the while he was being used by God to bring about God eternal plan of redemption. Satan still thinks that he can thwart the plan of God by getting all of us to disobey God and fall short of the kingdom of heaven. But free will must be held inviolate and we must be allowed to choose in and of ourselves to be good beings. Thus those who list to obey Satan and reject the gospel of Jesus Christ will do so at their own free will and choice. But those who choose to follow Jesus and apply the plan of redemption in their lives will become heirs of eternal life. Satan may be clever but he is no match for the infinite and eternal wisdom of our Father and God. Had Satan understood the plan of redemption fully, he likely would have avoided turning those who sought the life of Jesus against him.

Our first estate was in the premortal world of spirits. All of us who come to this earth and receive a body were valiant in the War in Heaven. Those who did not keep their first estate were Satan and his angels. We are now in our second estate and if we prove faithful, we can receive immortality and eternal life in the world to come.

The book of Abraham doesn't seem to be in the KJV bible. Why not?

 

[themirrorthief]

Doesn't sound much different than all the other fantastic tales I heard growing up in a Southern Baptist church. Those fire and bremstone nuts tend to embellish the bible stories to make them more interesting, and the people walk out of church amazed at the special anointing the preacher had received to be able to share all the details they had never heard before. When you start with a bunch of contradicting stories, it's not surprising they might get bigger and more conveluted each time they are told. You might note that's exactly how all the conspiracy theories evolve, and their believers are just as sure of their truth.

people hav a right to attend church get over yourself and your hate

 

[BULLDOG]

people hav a right to attend church get over yourself and your hate

Not real sure what that has to do with this thread.

 

[onefour1]

The book of Abraham doesn't seem to be in the KJV bible. Why not?

In responding to this thread, to get across my message, I found that using scripture (scripture according to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) was a more efficient message than strictly adhering to the Bible alone. For information on the Book of Abraham here is a good link for more information:

The Book of Abraham

For a strictly Biblical analysis see my post on the Premortal Existence as Taught in the Bible. The War in Heaven is spoken of in Revelation 12:7-11.

 

[BULLDOG]

In responding to this thread, to get across my message, I found that using scripture (scripture according to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) was a more efficient message than strictly adhering to the Bible alone. For information on the Book of Abraham here is a good link for more information:

The Book of Abraham

For a strictly Biblical analysis see my post on the Premortal Existence as Taught in the Bible. The War in Heaven is spoken of in Revelation 12:7-11.

But the bible is the ONLY source for information about the foundations of Christianity. There is loads of other records of how people have changed and subverted it to what exists today, but no other source for what it was intended to be.

 

[onefour1]

But the bible is the ONLY source for information about the foundations of Christianity. There is loads of other records of how people have changed and subverted it to what exists today, but no other source for what it was intended to be.

If you choose to believe that, that is your prerogative. I certainly do not believe that. But I do believe that the bible does have sufficient information to learn of our premortal existence and the war in heaven. So if you cannot believe the Book of Abraham or other outside the bible evidences, read the link I provided on the the Premortal Existence as Taught in the Bible and The War in Heaven as spoken of in Revelation 12:7-11. Those are all biblical references.

 

[Clyde 154]

Its absurd to suggest that Satan could spoil the plans of God through the manipulation of mankind. Some people present the scriptures as if watching a Chess Match between Good and Evil. Its impossible to defeat someone that is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient. Even if Satan did become a master at manipulating the free will of man.....God's plan contained no error.


You want and demand Christian Truth.........go to the source of Christian Doctrine, the Holy Scriptures, "Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God." (Romans 10:17). What is truth? (John 17:17), "Sanctify them through thy truth; Your Word is truth."

God's plan for the salvation of man, in spite of man's gift of free will in choosing between Good and Evil? Its all revealed in scripture, documented by book, chapter and verse.

The scriptures show us that God had a plan to offer salvation to man even before the foundation of the world and its revealed by divine inspiration and written in the Holy Bible. This plan involved the birth, life, death and resurrection of Christ Jesus (the only begotten son of God). Peter said this plan existed before the foundation of the world (1 Peter 1:20).......the apostle Paul stated, "....before time began" (2 Tim. 1:9)

We are told in scripture that God kept this plan hidden from man for awhile, until God's planned time period (Eph. 3:5,6). Even from the prophets of old who were foretelling of this event (1 Peter 1:10-12). We are told that God revealed this plan to mankind through the divine inspiration of the Holy Spirit (Eph. 3:5, 1 Peter 1:12).

We are told that when we read the plan that was written, WE CAN UNDERSTAND IT (it takes no special power) -- Eph. 3:4

In fact we are commanded to understand the will of God (Eph. 5:17). And we are told that God desires that we all come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim. 2:3,4).

What is this truth? If God desires that we all come to the knowledge of the Truth....its possible. Since God commands that we understand His will..........it is possible. And God said we can understand it.........it is possible.

 

[surada]

A plan was laid out by our Father in Heaven that we would all come down to this earth as mortals and experience good and evil in hopes that we would choose the good over the evil. We were to have free will to choose because the nature of progression is to learn to be a good being in and of ourselves. This requires that we of ourselves choose to be a good being. God knew that we were not perfect beings and that we would make mistakes along this path. Thus he provided a means whereby we could be redeemed from our bad choices by repenting and receiving forgiveness of our sins. For this to happen, a Savior was needed. I don't think that it was well understood how this salvation would take place however. God did ask his children, "whom shall I send to be the Savior?". Two individuals volunteered for the task.

Abraham 3:22-28
22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones;

23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.

24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;

25 And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;

26 And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever.

27 And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will send the first.

28 And the second was angry, and kept not his first estate; and, at that day, many followed after him.

In the above verse we read of God the Father asking, "Whom shall I send?". He is asking who will volunteer to be the Savior. Jesus first volunteers for the task but Lucifer also volunteers but is rejected. Lucifer becomes angry and gets others to follow after him. In another place we read about things that occurred before we came to this earth.

Moses 4:1-4
1 And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor.

2 But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto me—Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever.

3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;

4 And he became Satan, yea, even the devil, the father of all lies, to deceive and to blind men, and to lead them captive at his will, even as many as would not hearken unto my voice.

Here we learn that Satan (Lucifer) not only volunteered to be the Savior but had his own plan that he would save all, that not one soul would be lost. His plan was to take away mankind's free will and force all to be good beings. This of course would not work because in order to truly become a good being, one must choose in and of himself to be a good being. Taking away mankind's free will would never accomplish what God wanted for mankind. We would simply be forced to do good and not be able to choose it in and of ourselves. Satan (Lucifer) was very proud of his plan and thought it was better than the plan of God and sought to take the honor of God and his power. When God heard the plan of Jesus Christ who only sought to do the will of the Father, he chose Jesus over Lucifer. It was then that Lucifer rebelled against the Father and sought to convince all the spirit children of the Father to choose him as their God and to follow his plan over that of the Father's. He was very influential and managed to convince 1/3 of all the hosts of heaven to follow after him. This was the War in Heaven. God caused that Satan and his followers (angels) should be cast out of heaven into the earth. Jesus who sought to follow the will of the Father was chosen to be the Savior.

Even though God set forth to choose a Savior before the foundation of the world, I don't think that Satan fully understood how this was to be accomplished here on this earth. Because his plan was rejected and he because he rebelled against God, he was cast into the earth to tempt mankind toward evil. Satan's whole plan on this earth is to thwart God's plan and destroy the works of righteousness. However, I don't believe he understood how God would accomplish is plan here upon the earth. Satan understood that Jesus was to come to this earth to be a Savior but didn't fully comprehend how this was to be accomplished. Thus at every turn he has sought to turn God's children away from keeping his commandments and to do evil. All the time thinking to thwart the plan of the Father. When he saw Jesus come into the world, he tried to get Jesus to follow after him but failed. I think he then thought that if he could destroy Jesus by having him killed, he could then thwart God's plan. Thus he worked very hard on those Jews, Pharasees, etc of those days to be jealous of the power of Jesus and to seek his death.

What Satan did not understand was that the Son of God was a being who never sinned and by killing him he would commit the greatest injustice ever to be committed. Satan was allowed to bring upon Jesus the greatest amount of suffering ever to be suffered. No ordinary mortal man could have suffered for all the sins of the world and lived through it. But Jesus, being born of an immortal Father and never ever falling into sin in this world had the power within him to go through all the suffering of the sins of all mankind and still walk out of the Garden of Gethsemane. However, Jesus also being born of a mortal woman, had the capacity to lay down his life if he so chose to do so.

John 10:17-18
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Satan got his minions to seek the death of Jesus but I was really Jesus alone who chose to lay down his life. Jesus was a perfect and sinless sacrifice. He did no sin and never deserved any of the wickedness that was brought upon him. Thus the suffering and death of Jesus was not justified. The greatest of all injustices was brought upon him by Satan and his followers. Because an infinite and Holy being suffered and died the greatest injustice was done. Now according to the justice of God, would not the Christ deserve a recompense for the injustice he bore? Would not Jesus deserve a recompense to the extent of the injustice he bore when he took on the sins of all the world? YES!!! And his recompense was that he could forgive mankind of their sins and allow them to return unto the presence of God if they would only repent of their sins. Jesus accomplished the atonement and won the right to forgive all who draw unto him. I think if Satan had understood this principle, he would not have sought the suffering and death of Jesus Christ. He did what he did out of ignorance and hatred but all the while he was being used by God to bring about God eternal plan of redemption. Satan still thinks that he can thwart the plan of God by getting all of us to disobey God and fall short of the kingdom of heaven. But free will must be held inviolate and we must be allowed to choose in and of ourselves to be good beings. Thus those who list to obey Satan and reject the gospel of Jesus Christ will do so at their own free will and choice. But those who choose to follow Jesus and apply the plan of redemption in their lives will become heirs of eternal life. Satan may be clever but he is no match for the infinite and eternal wisdom of our Father and God. Had Satan understood the plan of redemption fully, he likely would have avoided turning those who sought the life of Jesus against him.

Our first estate was in the premortal world of spirits. All of us who come to this earth and receive a body were valiant in the War in Heaven. Those who did not keep their first estate were Satan and his angels. We are now in our second estate and if we prove faithful, we can receive immortality and eternal life in the world to come.

Abraham 3:22-28?

Are you a Mormon?

 

[BULLDOG]

A plan was laid out by our Father in Heaven that we would all come down to this earth as mortals and experience good and evil in hopes that we would choose the good over the evil. We were to have free will to choose because the nature of progression is to learn to be a good being in and of ourselves. This requires that we of ourselves choose to be a good being. God knew that we were not perfect beings and that we would make mistakes along this path. Thus he provided a means whereby we could be redeemed from our bad choices by repenting and receiving forgiveness of our sins. For this to happen, a Savior was needed. I don't think that it was well understood how this salvation would take place however. God did ask his children, "whom shall I send to be the Savior?". Two individuals volunteered for the task.

Abraham 3:22-28
22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones;

23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.

24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;

25 And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;

26 And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever.

27 And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will send the first.

28 And the second was angry, and kept not his first estate; and, at that day, many followed after him.

In the above verse we read of God the Father asking, "Whom shall I send?". He is asking who will volunteer to be the Savior. Jesus first volunteers for the task but Lucifer also volunteers but is rejected. Lucifer becomes angry and gets others to follow after him. In another place we read about things that occurred before we came to this earth.

Moses 4:1-4
1 And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor.

2 But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto me—Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever.

3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;

4 And he became Satan, yea, even the devil, the father of all lies, to deceive and to blind men, and to lead them captive at his will, even as many as would not hearken unto my voice.

Here we learn that Satan (Lucifer) not only volunteered to be the Savior but had his own plan that he would save all, that not one soul would be lost. His plan was to take away mankind's free will and force all to be good beings. This of course would not work because in order to truly become a good being, one must choose in and of himself to be a good being. Taking away mankind's free will would never accomplish what God wanted for mankind. We would simply be forced to do good and not be able to choose it in and of ourselves. Satan (Lucifer) was very proud of his plan and thought it was better than the plan of God and sought to take the honor of God and his power. When God heard the plan of Jesus Christ who only sought to do the will of the Father, he chose Jesus over Lucifer. It was then that Lucifer rebelled against the Father and sought to convince all the spirit children of the Father to choose him as their God and to follow his plan over that of the Father's. He was very influential and managed to convince 1/3 of all the hosts of heaven to follow after him. This was the War in Heaven. God caused that Satan and his followers (angels) should be cast out of heaven into the earth. Jesus who sought to follow the will of the Father was chosen to be the Savior.

Even though God set forth to choose a Savior before the foundation of the world, I don't think that Satan fully understood how this was to be accomplished here on this earth. Because his plan was rejected and he because he rebelled against God, he was cast into the earth to tempt mankind toward evil. Satan's whole plan on this earth is to thwart God's plan and destroy the works of righteousness. However, I don't believe he understood how God would accomplish is plan here upon the earth. Satan understood that Jesus was to come to this earth to be a Savior but didn't fully comprehend how this was to be accomplished. Thus at every turn he has sought to turn God's children away from keeping his commandments and to do evil. All the time thinking to thwart the plan of the Father. When he saw Jesus come into the world, he tried to get Jesus to follow after him but failed. I think he then thought that if he could destroy Jesus by having him killed, he could then thwart God's plan. Thus he worked very hard on those Jews, Pharasees, etc of those days to be jealous of the power of Jesus and to seek his death.

What Satan did not understand was that the Son of God was a being who never sinned and by killing him he would commit the greatest injustice ever to be committed. Satan was allowed to bring upon Jesus the greatest amount of suffering ever to be suffered. No ordinary mortal man could have suffered for all the sins of the world and lived through it. But Jesus, being born of an immortal Father and never ever falling into sin in this world had the power within him to go through all the suffering of the sins of all mankind and still walk out of the Garden of Gethsemane. However, Jesus also being born of a mortal woman, had the capacity to lay down his life if he so chose to do so.

John 10:17-18
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Satan got his minions to seek the death of Jesus but I was really Jesus alone who chose to lay down his life. Jesus was a perfect and sinless sacrifice. He did no sin and never deserved any of the wickedness that was brought upon him. Thus the suffering and death of Jesus was not justified. The greatest of all injustices was brought upon him by Satan and his followers. Because an infinite and Holy being suffered and died the greatest injustice was done. Now according to the justice of God, would not the Christ deserve a recompense for the injustice he bore? Would not Jesus deserve a recompense to the extent of the injustice he bore when he took on the sins of all the world? YES!!! And his recompense was that he could forgive mankind of their sins and allow them to return unto the presence of God if they would only repent of their sins. Jesus accomplished the atonement and won the right to forgive all who draw unto him. I think if Satan had understood this principle, he would not have sought the suffering and death of Jesus Christ. He did what he did out of ignorance and hatred but all the while he was being used by God to bring about God eternal plan of redemption. Satan still thinks that he can thwart the plan of God by getting all of us to disobey God and fall short of the kingdom of heaven. But free will must be held inviolate and we must be allowed to choose in and of ourselves to be good beings. Thus those who list to obey Satan and reject the gospel of Jesus Christ will do so at their own free will and choice. But those who choose to follow Jesus and apply the plan of redemption in their lives will become heirs of eternal life. Satan may be clever but he is no match for the infinite and eternal wisdom of our Father and God. Had Satan understood the plan of redemption fully, he likely would have avoided turning those who sought the life of Jesus against him.

Our first estate was in the premortal world of spirits. All of us who come to this earth and receive a body were valiant in the War in Heaven. Those who did not keep their first estate were Satan and his angels. We are now in our second estate and if we prove faithful, we can receive immortality and eternal life in the world to come.

How many underaged wives do you have?

 

[onefour1]

Its absurd to suggest that Satan could spoil the plans of God through the manipulation of mankind. Some people present the scriptures as if watching a Chess Match between Good and Evil. Its impossible to defeat someone that is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient. Even if Satan did become a master at manipulating the free will of man.....God's plan contained no error.


You want and demand Christian Truth.........go to the source of Christian Doctrine, the Holy Scriptures, "Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God." (Romans 10:17). What is truth? (John 17:17), "Sanctify them through thy truth; Your Word is truth."

God's plan for the salvation of man, in spite of man's gift of free will in choosing between Good and Evil? Its all revealed in scripture, documented by book, chapter and verse.

The scriptures show us that God had a plan to offer salvation to man even before the foundation of the world and its revealed by divine inspiration and written in the Holy Bible. This plan involved the birth, life, death and resurrection of Christ Jesus (the only begotten son of God). Peter said this plan existed before the foundation of the world (1 Peter 1:20).......the apostle Paul stated, "....before time began" (2 Tim. 1:9)

We are told in scripture that God kept this plan hidden from man for awhile, until God's planned time period (Eph. 3:5,6). Even from the prophets of old who were foretelling of this event (1 Peter 1:10-12). We are told that God revealed this plan to mankind through the divine inspiration of the Holy Spirit (Eph. 3:5, 1 Peter 1:12).

We are told that when we read the plan that was written, WE CAN UNDERSTAND IT (it takes no special power) -- Eph. 3:4

In fact we are commanded to understand the will of God (Eph. 5:17). And we are told that God desires that we all come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim. 2:3,4).

What is this truth? If God desires that we all come to the knowledge of the Truth....its possible. Since God commands that we understand His will..........it is possible. And God said we can understand it.........it is possible.

'Who are you responding to?

 

[onefour1]

Abraham 3:22-28?

Are you a Mormon?

I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Regarding the Book of Abraham, read the link:

The Book of Abraham

The term "Mormon" refers to the name of a prophet of God. We do not call ourselves Mormons. That is a name that non-members have used for years as a label. We are members of THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints as revealed by God himself. What is your denomination? Or are you embarrassed to tell me?

Doctrine and Covenants 115:3-4
3 And also unto my faithful servants who are of the high council of my church in Zion, for thus it shall be called, and unto all the elders and people of my Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, scattered abroad in all the world;
4 For thus shall my church be called in the last days, even The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Do you think the prophet Abraham ever wrote of his own dealings with God?

 

[onefour1]

How many underaged wives do you have?

So you feel the need to change the subject? Start a new thread and we can speak of why God allowed Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as well and David to have many wives. I will not discuss it on this thread out of respect for the poster of this thread.