I think being critical of the side you believe in is more important than being critical of the opposition.

[Concerned American]

You're part of it regardless of whether or not you're honest and introspective. Your single vote is inconsequential in the grand scheme of it all.

Why bothering voting then? Is it because we need to be collectively responsible?

It's for self protection. Not voting means brain damaged senile pedophiles can inflict all their nefarious schemes on you without opposition.

Well the senile, brain damaged pedophile will soon be out of the White House, and answering for his crimes while President, and before, so in that regard the system worked, but Trump should never have been anything but a fringe clown candidate. Republicans were under no obligation to let him run for President and they shouldn't have let him run, or moral grounds.

Useless Canuck, take care of your own problems--you're locking people up for having household gatherings.

 

[Papageorgio]

Obviously you need to be critical of the opposition and point at their issues, but I think it's even more important to focus on keeping your own side honest and consistent. Both parties have gone to shit, and I think it's in large part because so few people are willing to police their own side. They're too busy making excuses and trying to save face. Some of you will bend yourselves in a pretzel to avoid honest criticism of the party you vote for. Why?

Time to end the two parties and time for all good Americans to find better and more upright parties. Big corporations own the Democratic and Republican parties.

How any intelligent person could vote for either Trump or Biden was beyond me.

 

[AMart]

Look lets be honest Democrats today are communists who want to genocide the other people. So maybe one time we need to be honest.

 

[Papageorgio]

You're part of it regardless of whether or not you're honest and introspective. Your single vote is inconsequential in the grand scheme of it all.

Why bothering voting then? Is it because we need to be collectively responsible?

It's for self protection. Not voting means brain damaged senile pedophiles can inflict all their nefarious schemes on you without opposition.

Well the senile, brain damaged pedophile will soon be out of the White House, and answering for his crimes while President, and before, so in that regard the system worked, but Trump should never have been anything but a fringe clown candidate. Republicans were under no obligation to let him run for President and they shouldn't have let him run, or moral grounds.

Says the Canadian whose leader has been accused groping women, being a racist, conflict of interest allegations along with the WE scandal and the SNC Lavalin scandal. Then you have the Canadian Gestapo breaking up a party of...wait for it...wait for it...six! Not 16, not 26, 60, 600, but six!

You have enough problems with the racist, sexual predator in Justin Trudeau. Your leadership is disgusting and yet you support the piece of trash.

 

[Anomalism]

Oh the old both sides suck argument. Listen. Pick a party and clean it up. Don’t worry about what the other side is doing. And don’t tell us both sides suck because clearly you like one side over the other. Don’t be ashamed

I try to clean up my side.

 

[Mac1958]

Obviously you need to be critical of the opposition and point at their issues, but I think it's even more important to focus on keeping your own side honest and consistent. Both parties have gone to shit, and I think it's in large part because so few people are willing to police their own side. They're too busy making excuses and trying to save face. Some of you will bend yourselves in a pretzel to avoid honest criticism of the party you vote for. Why?

That's the nature of partisanship and tribalism, but it has definitely gotten worse. Hardcore partisans appear to think that if they're honest and criticize their tribe in the slightest way, it's some huge capitulation and a sign of weakness. Seems to me the opposite is true.

That's one of the primary reasons that hardcore partisan ideologues have zero credibility. There's simply no way to know if they're being honest. It's much easier to respect the opinion of a person if they can look in the mirror as easily as they attack the other tribe.

A great example is the race issue. Neither end of it will admit to any fault whatsoever. That's either blatant dishonesty or abject delusion. So trying to have an honest conversation with either is usually a complete waste of time.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

I can't get over your belief that you aren't partisan. How long are you going to continue this farce?

 

[Devils_Advocate]

Obviously you need to be critical of the opposition and point at their issues, but I think it's even more important to focus on keeping your own side honest and consistent. Both parties have gone to shit, and I think it's in large part because so few people are willing to police their own side. They're too busy making excuses and trying to save face. Some of you will bend yourselves in a pretzel to avoid honest criticism of the party you vote for. Why?

You are absolutely correct and many people will use the exercise “ well look at your side it does this and that “ while ignoring the major failure of your own side...

Take a moment and let use George W. Bush and Barrack Obama and the left would point to Bush invasion of Iraq and condemn it but when Obama was President they were mainly silent of Obama usage of drones that killed many innocent civilians and that is why Obama in some circles is dubbed the drone President...

Then let look at Trump immigration policy and how the left slammed Trump daily for his policies while ignoring the fact Obama tore families apart and never kept his promise to fix immigration in his first term...

Then you had Harry Reid sit on bills in the Senate and not once did the left complain about him holding up bills from the House but McConnell holding them up is a sin in the left eye...

Then you had McConnell and the right tell us we couldn’t seat a Justice during a lame duck Presidential year that was also a election year but then he turn around and allow Trump to appoint one so close to the election.

Then you have to so call fiscal Conservatives that become big spenders when Trump became President but will pretend to be fiscal hawks with Biden and Harris...

So both sides are full of shit and should be called on it!

 

[Devils_Advocate]

Some of you will bend yourselves in a pretzel to avoid honest criticism of the party you vote for. Why?

One reason is that the opposition is just as pumped up to criticize the president

trump for instance was attacked personally from the first minute that he won the nomination

and it got even worse after he was elected

How odd, because it was an eight-year honeymoon for President Obama, right?


.

Of course it was a honeymoon for Obama compare to Trump and if anyone think Trump has been treated worse than Obama is either lying or just a partisan hack!

Hell there were many GOP members that wanted to impeach Obama on day one of his first term and let remember the Tea Party and Birther Movement that still believe Obama was born in Kenya...

 

[Mac1958]

Obviously you need to be critical of the opposition and point at their issues, but I think it's even more important to focus on keeping your own side honest and consistent. Both parties have gone to shit, and I think it's in large part because so few people are willing to police their own side. They're too busy making excuses and trying to save face. Some of you will bend yourselves in a pretzel to avoid honest criticism of the party you vote for. Why?

Oh the old both sides suck argument. Listen. Pick a party and clean it up. Don’t worry about what the other side is doing. And don’t tell us both sides suck because clearly you like one side over the other. Don’t be ashamed

The fact remains -- we're not going to move back towards communication & progress unless and until both ends of our political spectrum are willing to (a) honestly look in the mirror and (b) hold their own tribe accountable instead of just pointing at the other. Right now, there is zero (0) of that going on.

In any other area of life, an intelligent person will see something going wrong and wonder what they did to contribute to that. Not now, not in politics or its associated issues.

 

[Mac-7]

You could provide criticism that's actually constructive.

Provide criticism to who and for what purpose?

the libs who are attacking trump?

I fail to see what good that would do

 

[Mac-7]

And don’t tell us both sides suck because clearly you like one side over the other. Don’t be ashamed

That is very clear from the comments made by the so-called “moderates“ on this thread who did nothing for 4 years except attack trump on the most personal and bitter terms possible

 

[Mac-7]

How odd, because it was an eight-year honeymoon for President Obama, right?

True

obama hated conservatives and we hated him back

just as libs hated bush and we hated clinton

we could play this game all the way back to george washington if we want to

the only thing that changes is the bitterness and gap of the divide that gets stronger and larger with each election

we are a very divided nation at this time

maybe more so than at any time since the Civil War

 

[Mac-7]

That RWNJ selective memory loss strikes again. Not unexpected.

And which side are you working for?

 

[candycorn]

Obviously you need to be critical of the opposition and point at their issues, but I think it's even more important to focus on keeping your own side honest and consistent. Both parties have gone to shit, and I think it's in large part because so few people are willing to police their own side. They're too busy making excuses and trying to save face. Some of you will bend yourselves in a pretzel to avoid honest criticism of the party you vote for. Why?

Biden will (and has in some cases) given liberals plenty to criticize. Whether they do it or not....anybody's guess.

 

[sealybobo]

Obviously you need to be critical of the opposition and point at their issues, but I think it's even more important to focus on keeping your own side honest and consistent. Both parties have gone to shit, and I think it's in large part because so few people are willing to police their own side. They're too busy making excuses and trying to save face. Some of you will bend yourselves in a pretzel to avoid honest criticism of the party you vote for. Why?

You are absolutely correct and many people will use the exercise “ well look at your side it does this and that “ while ignoring the major failure of your own side...

Take a moment and let use George W. Bush and Barrack Obama and the left would point to Bush invasion of Iraq and condemn it but when Obama was President they were mainly silent of Obama usage of drones that killed many innocent civilians and that is why Obama in some circles is dubbed the drone President...

Then let look at Trump immigration policy and how the left slammed Trump daily for his policies while ignoring the fact Obama tore families apart and never kept his promise to fix immigration in his first term...

Then you had Harry Reid sit on bills in the Senate and not once did the left complain about him holding up bills from the House but McConnell holding them up is a sin in the left eye...

Then you had McConnell and the right tell us we couldn’t seat a Justice during a lame duck Presidential year that was also a election year but then he turn around and allow Trump to appoint one so close to the election.

Then you have to so call fiscal Conservatives that become big spenders when Trump became President but will pretend to be fiscal hawks with Biden and Harris...

So both sides are full of shit and should be called on it!

Why were us liberals upset with invading Iraq? It was the number of Americans who died Because he lied.

How many us soldiers died fighting obamas wars? None?

Suddenly you care about collateral damage in the war on terror?

 

[sealybobo]

Obviously you need to be critical of the opposition and point at their issues, but I think it's even more important to focus on keeping your own side honest and consistent. Both parties have gone to shit, and I think it's in large part because so few people are willing to police their own side. They're too busy making excuses and trying to save face. Some of you will bend yourselves in a pretzel to avoid honest criticism of the party you vote for. Why?

Oh the old both sides suck argument. Listen. Pick a party and clean it up. Don’t worry about what the other side is doing. And don’t tell us both sides suck because clearly you like one side over the other. Don’t be ashamed

The fact remains -- we're not going to move back towards communication & progress unless and until both ends of our political spectrum are willing to (a) honestly look in the mirror and (b) hold their own tribe accountable instead of just pointing at the other. Right now, there is zero (0) of that going on.

In any other area of life, an intelligent person will see something going wrong and wonder what they did to contribute to that. Not now, not in politics or its associated issues.

Not true. The radicals in our party wanted to defund the police, free college, Socialized medicine, student loan forgiveness. We aren’t doing any of that.

 

[sealybobo]

And don’t tell us both sides suck because clearly you like one side over the other. Don’t be ashamed

That is very clear from the comments made by the so-called “moderates“ on this thread who did nothing for 4 years except attack trump on the most personal and bitter terms possible

Trump was horrible. He deserved to be attacked. He asked for it. He pissed off the left on purpose. He thought dividing us would benefit him. It backfired.

He broke the law calling ukraine. You and Mitch gave him a pass. A pass you would never give biden

 

[Devils_Advocate]

Obviously you need to be critical of the opposition and point at their issues, but I think it's even more important to focus on keeping your own side honest and consistent. Both parties have gone to shit, and I think it's in large part because so few people are willing to police their own side. They're too busy making excuses and trying to save face. Some of you will bend yourselves in a pretzel to avoid honest criticism of the party you vote for. Why?

You are absolutely correct and many people will use the exercise “ well look at your side it does this and that “ while ignoring the major failure of your own side...

Take a moment and let use George W. Bush and Barrack Obama and the left would point to Bush invasion of Iraq and condemn it but when Obama was President they were mainly silent of Obama usage of drones that killed many innocent civilians and that is why Obama in some circles is dubbed the drone President...

Then let look at Trump immigration policy and how the left slammed Trump daily for his policies while ignoring the fact Obama tore families apart and never kept his promise to fix immigration in his first term...

Then you had Harry Reid sit on bills in the Senate and not once did the left complain about him holding up bills from the House but McConnell holding them up is a sin in the left eye...

Then you had McConnell and the right tell us we couldn’t seat a Justice during a lame duck Presidential year that was also a election year but then he turn around and allow Trump to appoint one so close to the election.

Then you have to so call fiscal Conservatives that become big spenders when Trump became President but will pretend to be fiscal hawks with Biden and Harris...

So both sides are full of shit and should be called on it!

Why were us liberals upset with invading Iraq? It was the number of Americans who died Because he lied.

How many us soldiers died fighting obamas wars? None?

Suddenly you care about collateral damage in the war on terror?

No one died during Obama years as President?

Obama's Final Numbers - FactCheck.org

The numbers are nearly all in now. What they show about what really happened during the eight years that Barack Obama was president is sometimes different from what politicians claimed.

www.factcheck.org

Also you are not Liberal but you are Progressive and should learn the damn difference instead of trying to pretend to be something you are not!

Also I was against the invasion of Iraq and from my Slate days I was outspoken about it but unlike you I did not accept the lies that either political party peddled and hold both sides accountable for their lies!

Now why did you lie about the amount of deaths during Obama years and seeing he accepted the responsibility of both invasions make those Wars also his Wars during his tenure in Office!

See that is the point the OP was making and yet you proved to be a blind partisan whore as usual!

 

[Devils_Advocate]

And don’t tell us both sides suck because clearly you like one side over the other. Don’t be ashamed

That is very clear from the comments made by the so-called “moderates“ on this thread who did nothing for 4 years except attack trump on the most personal and bitter terms possible

Trump was horrible. He deserved to be attacked. He asked for it. He pissed off the left on purpose. He thought dividing us would benefit him. It backfired.

He broke the law calling ukraine. You and Mitch gave him a pass. A pass you would never give biden

Schumer and Pelosi would give Biden the pass, so let admit the fact that both sides are full of shit but you prefer the shit from those like Pelosi!

 

[Mac-7]

Trump was horrible. He deserved to be attacked.

Ok

biden is more horrible and he deserves to be attacked even more

when are libs going to learn?

any game you can invent conservatives can learn to play