I think being critical of the side you believe in is more important than being critical of the opposition.

[Anomalism]

So what would you have done after bin Ladin in Afghanistan took credit for 9-11?

They wanted us to do exactly what we did. I would have done something else.

 

[sealybobo]

Why did we invade?

The businesses of death needed to be paid.

It didn’t need to Be paid. Remember in the 90s republicans tried to dupe Clinton into going to war with Iraq. He wouldn’t bite.

But it was worth a shot. They got him to sign nafta and the media deregulation’s act. It would have been great if republicans could put Iraq on President Clinton but instead they put it on senator clinton for going along with bush.

Remember McCain wanted to bomb Iran? Did Obama bomb Iran? Nope.

 

[sealybobo]

So what would you have done after bin Ladin in Afghanistan took credit for 9-11?

They wanted us to do exactly what we did. I would have done something else.

Like?

 

[Anomalism]

Like?

Why did we go to war other than vengeance? We had nothing else to gain, and in fact we lost a lot.

 

[bendog]

Some of you will bend yourselves in a pretzel to avoid honest criticism of the party you vote for. Why?

One reason is that the opposition is just as pumped up to criticize the president

trump for instance was attacked personally from the first minute that he won the nomination

and it got even worse after he was elected

Well he never attempted to win over the maj who didn't vote for him. It's just not his personality to seek consensus. His entire life was built on doing deals with people who didn't really want him in on the deal, but their self-interest caused them to accept it. And he is a morally horrible person.

But yeah, the dems are still pissed off that McConnell tried to oust Obama after one term, and they believe (correctly imo) that without Comey, Hill would have won.

 

[Devils_Advocate]

Obviously you need to be critical of the opposition and point at their issues, but I think it's even more important to focus on keeping your own side honest and consistent. Both parties have gone to shit, and I think it's in large part because so few people are willing to police their own side. They're too busy making excuses and trying to save face. Some of you will bend yourselves in a pretzel to avoid honest criticism of the party you vote for. Why?

You are absolutely correct and many people will use the exercise “ well look at your side it does this and that “ while ignoring the major failure of your own side...

Take a moment and let use George W. Bush and Barrack Obama and the left would point to Bush invasion of Iraq and condemn it but when Obama was President they were mainly silent of Obama usage of drones that killed many innocent civilians and that is why Obama in some circles is dubbed the drone President...

Then let look at Trump immigration policy and how the left slammed Trump daily for his policies while ignoring the fact Obama tore families apart and never kept his promise to fix immigration in his first term...

Then you had Harry Reid sit on bills in the Senate and not once did the left complain about him holding up bills from the House but McConnell holding them up is a sin in the left eye...

Then you had McConnell and the right tell us we couldn’t seat a Justice during a lame duck Presidential year that was also a election year but then he turn around and allow Trump to appoint one so close to the election.

Then you have to so call fiscal Conservatives that become big spenders when Trump became President but will pretend to be fiscal hawks with Biden and Harris...

So both sides are full of shit and should be called on it!

Why were us liberals upset with invading Iraq? It was the number of Americans who died Because he lied.

How many us soldiers died fighting obamas wars? None?

Suddenly you care about collateral damage in the war on terror?

No one died during Obama years as President?

Obama's Final Numbers - FactCheck.org

The numbers are nearly all in now. What they show about what really happened during the eight years that Barack Obama was president is sometimes different from what politicians claimed.

www.factcheck.org

Also you are not Liberal but you are Progressive and should learn the damn difference instead of trying to pretend to be something you are not!

Also I was against the invasion of Iraq and from my Slate days I was outspoken about it but unlike you I did not accept the lies that either political party peddled and hold both sides accountable for their lies!

Now why did you lie about the amount of deaths during Obama years and seeing he accepted the responsibility of both invasions make those Wars also his Wars during his tenure in Office!

See that is the point the OP was making and yet you proved to be a blind partisan whore as usual!

How many Americans died in Yemen after the Obama war started? Cons talk about Obama’s wars. Who died? How many? I suppose Obama was wrong for taking out bin Ladin in Pakistan?

Jesus fucking Christ you make so many excuses for your bullshit on why you support slaughtering innocent people as long as it is done by a Democrat!

First off Obama ran on as the uniter and he failed so many times at uniting anything!

Also Obama lost soldiers and even diplomats, so let be clear Obama was lousy and was the Drone President but keep on pretending no one died during Obama days as President!

Hell Obama kept a spy program on U.S. Citizens and yet my bet you will blame Bush for it!

Progressives like you can not accept reality just like Trumpsters can not either!

 

[sealybobo]

Obviously you need to be critical of the opposition and point at their issues, but I think it's even more important to focus on keeping your own side honest and consistent. Both parties have gone to shit, and I think it's in large part because so few people are willing to police their own side. They're too busy making excuses and trying to save face. Some of you will bend yourselves in a pretzel to avoid honest criticism of the party you vote for. Why?

You are absolutely correct and many people will use the exercise “ well look at your side it does this and that “ while ignoring the major failure of your own side...

Take a moment and let use George W. Bush and Barrack Obama and the left would point to Bush invasion of Iraq and condemn it but when Obama was President they were mainly silent of Obama usage of drones that killed many innocent civilians and that is why Obama in some circles is dubbed the drone President...

Then let look at Trump immigration policy and how the left slammed Trump daily for his policies while ignoring the fact Obama tore families apart and never kept his promise to fix immigration in his first term...

Then you had Harry Reid sit on bills in the Senate and not once did the left complain about him holding up bills from the House but McConnell holding them up is a sin in the left eye...

Then you had McConnell and the right tell us we couldn’t seat a Justice during a lame duck Presidential year that was also a election year but then he turn around and allow Trump to appoint one so close to the election.

Then you have to so call fiscal Conservatives that become big spenders when Trump became President but will pretend to be fiscal hawks with Biden and Harris...

So both sides are full of shit and should be called on it!

Why were us liberals upset with invading Iraq? It was the number of Americans who died Because he lied.

How many us soldiers died fighting obamas wars? None?

Suddenly you care about collateral damage in the war on terror?

No one died during Obama years as President?

Obama's Final Numbers - FactCheck.org

The numbers are nearly all in now. What they show about what really happened during the eight years that Barack Obama was president is sometimes different from what politicians claimed.

www.factcheck.org

Also you are not Liberal but you are Progressive and should learn the damn difference instead of trying to pretend to be something you are not!

Also I was against the invasion of Iraq and from my Slate days I was outspoken about it but unlike you I did not accept the lies that either political party peddled and hold both sides accountable for their lies!

Now why did you lie about the amount of deaths during Obama years and seeing he accepted the responsibility of both invasions make those Wars also his Wars during his tenure in Office!

See that is the point the OP was making and yet you proved to be a blind partisan whore as usual!

How many Americans died in Yemen after the Obama war started? Cons talk about Obama’s wars. Who died? How many? I suppose Obama was wrong for taking out bin Ladin in Pakistan?

Jesus fucking Christ you make so many excuses for your bullshit on why you support slaughtering innocent people as long as it is done by a Democrat!

First off Obama ran on as the uniter and he failed so many times at uniting anything!

Also Obama lost soldiers and even diplomats, so let be clear Obama was lousy and was the Drone President but keep on pretending no one died during Obama days as President!

Hell Obama kept a spy program on U.S. Citizens and yet my bet you will blame Bush for it!

Progressives like you can not accept reality just like Trumpsters can not either!

I don’t know too many republicans or democrats who would say if we see terrorists getting together for meetings and training, don’t drone strikes them dead. Do any self proclaimed republicans or democrats agree Here?

I think I made my point. No one died on Clinton’s Kosovo war. And Obama did not drag us into a 3rd 4th and 5th quagmire in which now we are bogged down and suffering casualties. That matters. I fault which ever president got us into Vietnam nam and vpbush for lying us into Iraq for oil and defense contracts

 

[sealybobo]

I have been critical of both sides my whole life. I have voted for more Democrats than Republicans in my life.

But I have to call them like I see them..and the Democrat party has been the biggest shit show on the planet for the past decade or so.

Democrats seem to be actively trying to destroy America, and that's something that anyone should be able to recognize, and understand needs to change for the betterment of future generations of Americans.

I call bullshit. You voted democratic in the past? So then that means you’re a trumpeter. Not a republican. Trump was able to recruit you to the gop. Got it.

Consider this while you talk about the Democratic Party. Consider all the deep state globalist rhinos Trump has exposed. Look at the Georgia governor. A republican and he stole the election from trump. Are these rhinos trying to destroy America?

Ill tell you the answer. The answer is just like trump, those republicans serve the rich. Trump conned uneducated white blue collar people into voting for him.

 

[sealybobo]

Obviously you need to be critical of the opposition and point at their issues, but I think it's even more important to focus on keeping your own side honest and consistent. Both parties have gone to shit, and I think it's in large part because so few people are willing to police their own side. They're too busy making excuses and trying to save face. Some of you will bend yourselves in a pretzel to avoid honest criticism of the party you vote for. Why?

You are absolutely correct and many people will use the exercise “ well look at your side it does this and that “ while ignoring the major failure of your own side...

Take a moment and let use George W. Bush and Barrack Obama and the left would point to Bush invasion of Iraq and condemn it but when Obama was President they were mainly silent of Obama usage of drones that killed many innocent civilians and that is why Obama in some circles is dubbed the drone President...

Then let look at Trump immigration policy and how the left slammed Trump daily for his policies while ignoring the fact Obama tore families apart and never kept his promise to fix immigration in his first term...

Then you had Harry Reid sit on bills in the Senate and not once did the left complain about him holding up bills from the House but McConnell holding them up is a sin in the left eye...

Then you had McConnell and the right tell us we couldn’t seat a Justice during a lame duck Presidential year that was also a election year but then he turn around and allow Trump to appoint one so close to the election.

Then you have to so call fiscal Conservatives that become big spenders when Trump became President but will pretend to be fiscal hawks with Biden and Harris...

So both sides are full of shit and should be called on it!

Why were us liberals upset with invading Iraq? It was the number of Americans who died Because he lied.

How many us soldiers died fighting obamas wars? None?

Suddenly you care about collateral damage in the war on terror?

No one died during Obama years as President?

Obama's Final Numbers - FactCheck.org

The numbers are nearly all in now. What they show about what really happened during the eight years that Barack Obama was president is sometimes different from what politicians claimed.

www.factcheck.org

Also you are not Liberal but you are Progressive and should learn the damn difference instead of trying to pretend to be something you are not!

Also I was against the invasion of Iraq and from my Slate days I was outspoken about it but unlike you I did not accept the lies that either political party peddled and hold both sides accountable for their lies!

Now why did you lie about the amount of deaths during Obama years and seeing he accepted the responsibility of both invasions make those Wars also his Wars during his tenure in Office!

See that is the point the OP was making and yet you proved to be a blind partisan whore as usual!

How many Americans died in Yemen after the Obama war started? Cons talk about Obama’s wars. Who died? How many? I suppose Obama was wrong for taking out bin Ladin in Pakistan?

Jesus fucking Christ you make so many excuses for your bullshit on why you support slaughtering innocent people as long as it is done by a Democrat!

First off Obama ran on as the uniter and he failed so many times at uniting anything!

Also Obama lost soldiers and even diplomats, so let be clear Obama was lousy and was the Drone President but keep on pretending no one died during Obama days as President!

Hell Obama kept a spy program on U.S. Citizens and yet my bet you will blame Bush for it!

Progressives like you can not accept reality just like Trumpsters can not either!

I never said anything when bush went after bin Ladin in Pakistan. Oh wait. That was Obama. He got bin Ladin.

I only faulted trump for taking out that Iranian general at an airport because now I feel Iran might retaliate in kind one day. Other than that, I never fault any president for going to places like Yemen and Syria and blowing up terrorists. There’s a holy war going on in the Middle East. Very unstable.

 

[Anomalism]

I never said anything when bush went after bin Ladin in Pakistan. Oh wait. That was Obama. He got bin Ladin.

I only faulted trump for taking out that Iranian general at an airport because now I feel Iran might retaliate in kind one day. Other than that, I never fault any president for going to places like Yemen and Syria and blowing up terrorists. There’s a holy war going on in the Middle East. Very unstable.

We don't need to referee a holy war.

 

[sealybobo]

I never said anything when bush went after bin Ladin in Pakistan. Oh wait. That was Obama. He got bin Ladin.

I only faulted trump for taking out that Iranian general at an airport because now I feel Iran might retaliate in kind one day. Other than that, I never fault any president for going to places like Yemen and Syria and blowing up terrorists. There’s a holy war going on in the Middle East. Very unstable.

We don't need to referee a holy war.

Really? What if the wrong side wins?

 

[Anomalism]

Really? What if the wrong side wins?

Which side is the wrong side and what impact will it have on us if they win?

 

[sealybobo]

Really? What if the wrong side wins?

Which side is the wrong side and what impact will it have on us if they win?

I’m sure those questions are asked before we decide. I never once questioned trump when he boomed these countries. I assume our military decided properly.

But I did not approve of invading Iraq. Bush lied us into that quagmire and this caused all the problems we now have in yemen, syria,etc. Had we just stayed in afganistan we’d be fighting a just cause.

And republicans, including trump, seem to want to go to war with Iran. I don’t. But again, maybe I don’t have all the facts. Just based on what I know though I don’t want to start a war with Iran.

 

[Anomalism]

I never once questioned trump when he boomed these countries.

Maybe you should have.

 

[sealybobo]

I never once questioned trump when he boomed these countries.

Maybe you should have.

US Conducts 2 New Year's Day Airstrikes on Somalia as Troop Withdrawal Continues

The two New Year's Day airstrikes hit al-Shabaab compounds, destroying two according to the initial assessment. No civilians were killed or injured, officials said.

www.military.com

America’s War on Syrian Civilians

Bombs killed thousands of civilians in Raqqa, and the city was decimated. U.S. lawyers insist that war crimes weren’t committed, but it’s time to look honestly at the devastation that accompanies “targeted” air strikes.

www.newyorker.com

U.S.-Backed Airstrikes Are Killing People In Yemen. This Is Their Impact.

President Donald Trump has resisted bipartisan efforts to end the American role in the war, which has claimed tens of thousands of lives. President-elect Joe Biden says he will change course.

www.huffpost.com

Should I go on?

 

[Anomalism]

Should I go on?

No, because you seem to be trapped in and confused by partisan politics. You're not even making a point from my perspective.

 

[sealybobo]

Should I go on?

No, because you seem to be trapped in and confused by partisan politics. You're not even making a point from my perspective.

Ultimately I would love to have it your way and withdraw all troops from the Middle East.

Or, keep a presence there and not have to bomb terrorists in places like Yemen.

What ever happened to fight them over there so we don’t have to fight them over here.

And sorry but has any republican here agreed with you? Because you seem to be more liberal on war than me. Or maybe you’re one of those libertarian non interventionist types.

Anyways, ill look forward to see the times you do battle with republican on here. Since you’re such a straight down the middle moderate independent centrist

 

[Anomalism]

Ultimately I would love to have it your way and withdraw all troops from the Middle East.

Or, keep a presence there and not have to bomb terrorists in places like Yemen.

What ever happened to fight them over there so we don’t have to fight them over here.

And sorry but has any republican here agreed with you? Because you seem to be more liberal on war than me. Or maybe you’re one of those libertarian non interventionist types.

Anyways, ill look forward to see the times you do battle with republican on here. Since you’re such a straight down the middle moderate independent centrist

Lol, you should check my thread history. There are Republicans here waiting for me to prove I'm not a Marxist. That's why I criticized you. You're pointing at Donald to make your what about point, but that means nothing to me. I don't support Donald.

 

[sealybobo]

Ultimately I would love to have it your way and withdraw all troops from the Middle East.

Or, keep a presence there and not have to bomb terrorists in places like Yemen.

What ever happened to fight them over there so we don’t have to fight them over here.

And sorry but has any republican here agreed with you? Because you seem to be more liberal on war than me. Or maybe you’re one of those libertarian non interventionist types.

Anyways, ill look forward to see the times you do battle with republican on here. Since you’re such a straight down the middle moderate independent centrist

Lol, you should check my thread history. There are Republicans here waiting for me to prove I'm not a Marxist. That's why I criticized you. You're pointing at Donald to make your what about point, but that means nothing to me. I don't support Donald.

So the questions are

1. How do we pull out? We don’t want to leave and let the terrorists take over, right?

2. If we allow terrorists a place in the world to train and plot against us, isn’t that the mistake we made with bin Ladin?

3. what do you think would happen if we closed all our bases around the world and brought every soldier home?

4. Maybe it’s not as easy as you think?

Ultimately, if we aren’t turning over land to bad guys, I’m with you. Let’s bring them home. Let’s not piss off iran by having battleships in the waters surrounding them. Come home, save shit loads of money.

This would mean us no longer being the superpower. We no longer are financially. China is probably the new superpower. So should we let them police the rest of the world when trouble happens? We would save a lot of money and they would waste a lot on their military industrial complex

Im a moderate on this. I see both sides. on this you’re either a liberal or libertarian. Which is it?

 

[sealybobo]

Ultimately I would love to have it your way and withdraw all troops from the Middle East.

Or, keep a presence there and not have to bomb terrorists in places like Yemen.

What ever happened to fight them over there so we don’t have to fight them over here.

And sorry but has any republican here agreed with you? Because you seem to be more liberal on war than me. Or maybe you’re one of those libertarian non interventionist types.

Anyways, ill look forward to see the times you do battle with republican on here. Since you’re such a straight down the middle moderate independent centrist

Lol, you should check my thread history. There are Republicans here waiting for me to prove I'm not a Marxist. That's why I criticized you. You're pointing at Donald to make your what about point, but that means nothing to me. I don't support Donald.

Don’t let the old farts here get you down. They forget how much their family and government has helped them become who they are. They like to believe they did it all on their own and no privilege existed. Thats bull. Most of them it’s not what they knew it’s who they knew.

I tend to find young people are smarter. Instinctively they know right from wrong.