I want to ban McCain from Arlington

[rightwinger]

There is good evidence that McCain was a liar and a coward.


Investigating John McCain's Tragedy at Sea

Investigating John McCain's Tragedy at Sea

Some of those who were on the Forrestal and other persons familiar with the ordnance told me that because the rocket did not hit McCain’s craft, only actions by the pilot could have caused any bomb to fall from McCain’s Skyhawk. These sources — who spoke under the condition that they not be publicly identified — agree with each other that, if any bomb fell from the McCain airplane, it was because of actions that he took either in error or panic upon seeing the fire on the deck or in his hasty exit from the plane. Two switches in the cockpit of a Skyhawk need to be thrown to drop such a bomb, according to the sources.



McCain has gone much further than most veterans in using his military experiences for political purposes, but he has not allowed his military records to be released, save for the list of his awards and medals, all of which were given only after he became a prisoner of war. It is appropriate that he release those records before the election. If his actions contributed to the magnitude of the Forrestal disaster and if he left the burning ship under less than honorable circumstances, that information should be available to voters as they choose their next president. At the very least, John McCain should be asked to explain his actions in the summer of 1967 and tell American voters why he has repeatedly given a false account of Robert Zwerlein’s death.

Propaganda

 

[Wry Catcher]

If only McCain had bone spurs then he'd be loved by cons.

McCain flew 23 bombing missions over North Vietnam. A while after he was captured his father was appointed to a high level command position for all US forces in Vietnam. In mid-1968, his father John S. McCain Jr. was named commander of all U.S. forces in the Vietnam theater, and the North Vietnamese offered McCain early release because they wanted to appear merciful for propaganda purposes, and also to show other POWs that elite prisoners were willing to be treated preferentially. McCain refused repatriation unless every man taken in before him was also released. He remained a prisoner until 1973, suffering terrible torture during his time as a prisoner.

He was awarded the Silver Star, the Bronze Star, the Purple Heart, and other medals.

This is who conservatives want to bar from Arlington National Cemetery.

They also favor a draft dodger, whore banger, inveterate liar, con-man, and racist pig Drumpf over USMC Captain Mueller who ably served under Reagan, Bush, Bush II....

Those Conservatives are a weird bunch.

Americans don't give much weight to military serviceDu when it comes to presidential elections.


Carter vs Reagan, non veteran won.


Reagan vs Mondale, both had non combat service.


Bush vs Dukakis. Combat vet won.


Bush vs Clinton. Non veteran won.


Clinton vs DOle Non veteran won.


Bush vs Gore. Both vets, guy with combat service lost.

Bush vs Kerry both vets. guy with combat service lot.


Obama vs McCain, war hero lost.


Obama vs Romney, neither vets.


Trump vs Hillary, neither vets.

Thanks for the input....I was talking about Conservatives more than the American electorate at large. Conservatives are the first ones to proclaim love of the military and the first group to jettison a service veteran if it becomes politically expedient to do so. See McCain, See Mueller, See Kerry, etc... Its all politics, all the time.

Conservatives are the first ones to proclaim love of the military. I agree.


That in no way gives specific individuals with military service a pass for political opposition to us.


McCain spent decades giving conservatives reasons to oppose him, politically. And I never heard him say that the opposition was not deserved or called for, nor that he deserved a pass because of his military service.


Kerry? Kerry was a democrat. We never "had" him to "jettison" him later.

It's not what conservatives say, it is what they do. False pathos are easily discerned when one watches their feet, not their lips.

 

[WinterBorn]

The guy was a deceiver.
He put on a big act he was a hardcore conservative, then carpetbagged his way into Arizona
He would have been a hero by staying out of politics
..and what's up with that remark of the "intervention in Dallas" when talking about JFK in the debates?

You can hate the man, disagree with his politics, and even make fun of his cancer, if you want.

But McCain served with distinction in the US Navy, was a POW (and refused early release unless those who were captured before him were also released) who spent nearly 2 years in solitary, and has been a US Senator. Whether you agree with him or not, like him or hate him, he has earned his place in Arlington.

What have you done to think you have a say in where he is buried?

 

[WinterBorn]

There is good evidence that McCain was a liar and a coward.


Investigating John McCain's Tragedy at Sea

Investigating John McCain's Tragedy at Sea

Some of those who were on the Forrestal and other persons familiar with the ordnance told me that because the rocket did not hit McCain’s craft, only actions by the pilot could have caused any bomb to fall from McCain’s Skyhawk. These sources — who spoke under the condition that they not be publicly identified — agree with each other that, if any bomb fell from the McCain airplane, it was because of actions that he took either in error or panic upon seeing the fire on the deck or in his hasty exit from the plane. Two switches in the cockpit of a Skyhawk need to be thrown to drop such a bomb, according to the sources.



McCain has gone much further than most veterans in using his military experiences for political purposes, but he has not allowed his military records to be released, save for the list of his awards and medals, all of which were given only after he became a prisoner of war. It is appropriate that he release those records before the election. If his actions contributed to the magnitude of the Forrestal disaster and if he left the burning ship under less than honorable circumstances, that information should be available to voters as they choose their next president. At the very least, John McCain should be asked to explain his actions in the summer of 1967 and tell American voters why he has repeatedly given a false account of Robert Zwerlein’s death.

Since none of this is proven, why not just look at his refusal to accept early release from the Hanoi Hilton. He did that because he did not want to be used for propaganda and because he insisted that he would only accept early release if every man captured before him was also released. Whatever happened on the USS Forrestal, his refusal to accept early release, thereby voluntarily staying as a POW in Hanoi removes any truth to calling him a coward.

 

[bodecea]

The guy was a deceiver.
He put on a big act he was a hardcore conservative, then carpetbagged his way into Arizona
He would have been a hero by staying out of politics
..and what's up with that remark of the "intervention in Dallas" when talking about JFK in the debates?

McCain went out like the abrasive self-centered politician that he was. If he had ran a proper campaign in 2008 we would not have had an Obama.

And this is the unforgivable part.......

 

[Flash]

There is good evidence that McCain was a liar and a coward.


Investigating John McCain's Tragedy at Sea

Investigating John McCain's Tragedy at Sea

Some of those who were on the Forrestal and other persons familiar with the ordnance told me that because the rocket did not hit McCain’s craft, only actions by the pilot could have caused any bomb to fall from McCain’s Skyhawk. These sources — who spoke under the condition that they not be publicly identified — agree with each other that, if any bomb fell from the McCain airplane, it was because of actions that he took either in error or panic upon seeing the fire on the deck or in his hasty exit from the plane. Two switches in the cockpit of a Skyhawk need to be thrown to drop such a bomb, according to the sources.



McCain has gone much further than most veterans in using his military experiences for political purposes, but he has not allowed his military records to be released, save for the list of his awards and medals, all of which were given only after he became a prisoner of war. It is appropriate that he release those records before the election. If his actions contributed to the magnitude of the Forrestal disaster and if he left the burning ship under less than honorable circumstances, that information should be available to voters as they choose their next president. At the very least, John McCain should be asked to explain his actions in the summer of 1967 and tell American voters why he has repeatedly given a false account of Robert Zwerlein’s death.

Since none of this is proven, why not just look at his refusal to accept early release from the Hanoi Hilton. He did that because he did not want to be used for propaganda and because he insisted that he would only accept early release if every man captured before him was also released. Whatever happened on the USS Forrestal, his refusal to accept early release, thereby voluntarily staying as a POW in Hanoi removes any truth to calling him a coward.

We don't know the truth but there is good evidence that he was not what everybody thought he was.. There is doubt but all that will be water under the bridge shortly because he will be gone. Good riddance to a RINO.

What I do know is that in 2008 I was a Conservative that always voted Republican but felt that McCain was a RINO egotistical asshole that (although better than Obama) should not be President. I voted for someone else instead.

I also think that without Palin the SOB would have got a few million less votes. He was never the right GOP candidate for President and he has certainly sided with the filthy ass Democrats enough times as a Senator. He is the one that singly handedly stopped Obamacare from being repealed and most of the voters who elected him were against it.

 

[WinterBorn]

There is good evidence that McCain was a liar and a coward.


Investigating John McCain's Tragedy at Sea

Investigating John McCain's Tragedy at Sea

Some of those who were on the Forrestal and other persons familiar with the ordnance told me that because the rocket did not hit McCain’s craft, only actions by the pilot could have caused any bomb to fall from McCain’s Skyhawk. These sources — who spoke under the condition that they not be publicly identified — agree with each other that, if any bomb fell from the McCain airplane, it was because of actions that he took either in error or panic upon seeing the fire on the deck or in his hasty exit from the plane. Two switches in the cockpit of a Skyhawk need to be thrown to drop such a bomb, according to the sources.



McCain has gone much further than most veterans in using his military experiences for political purposes, but he has not allowed his military records to be released, save for the list of his awards and medals, all of which were given only after he became a prisoner of war. It is appropriate that he release those records before the election. If his actions contributed to the magnitude of the Forrestal disaster and if he left the burning ship under less than honorable circumstances, that information should be available to voters as they choose their next president. At the very least, John McCain should be asked to explain his actions in the summer of 1967 and tell American voters why he has repeatedly given a false account of Robert Zwerlein’s death.

Since none of this is proven, why not just look at his refusal to accept early release from the Hanoi Hilton. He did that because he did not want to be used for propaganda and because he insisted that he would only accept early release if every man captured before him was also released. Whatever happened on the USS Forrestal, his refusal to accept early release, thereby voluntarily staying as a POW in Hanoi removes any truth to calling him a coward.

We don't know the truth but there is good evidence that he was not what everybody thought he was.. There is doubt but all that will be water under the bridge shortly because he will be gone. Good riddance to a RINO.

What I do know is that in 2008 I was a Conservative that always voted Republican but felt that McCain was a RINO egotistical asshole that (although better than Obama) should not be President. I voted for someone else instead.

I also think that without Palin the SOB would have got a few million less votes. He was never the right GOP candidate for President and he has certainly sided with the filthy ass Democrats enough times as a Senator. He is the one that singly handedly stopped Obamacare from being repealed and most of the voters who elected him were against it.

That is all true. It is also a list of reasons to dislike the man. But calling someone who voluntarily stayed in the Hanoi Hilton a coward is not right. And to call for him to be banned from Arlington is fucked up.

 

[rightwinger]

There is good evidence that McCain was a liar and a coward.


Investigating John McCain's Tragedy at Sea

Investigating John McCain's Tragedy at Sea

Some of those who were on the Forrestal and other persons familiar with the ordnance told me that because the rocket did not hit McCain’s craft, only actions by the pilot could have caused any bomb to fall from McCain’s Skyhawk. These sources — who spoke under the condition that they not be publicly identified — agree with each other that, if any bomb fell from the McCain airplane, it was because of actions that he took either in error or panic upon seeing the fire on the deck or in his hasty exit from the plane. Two switches in the cockpit of a Skyhawk need to be thrown to drop such a bomb, according to the sources.



McCain has gone much further than most veterans in using his military experiences for political purposes, but he has not allowed his military records to be released, save for the list of his awards and medals, all of which were given only after he became a prisoner of war. It is appropriate that he release those records before the election. If his actions contributed to the magnitude of the Forrestal disaster and if he left the burning ship under less than honorable circumstances, that information should be available to voters as they choose their next president. At the very least, John McCain should be asked to explain his actions in the summer of 1967 and tell American voters why he has repeatedly given a false account of Robert Zwerlein’s death.

Since none of this is proven, why not just look at his refusal to accept early release from the Hanoi Hilton. He did that because he did not want to be used for propaganda and because he insisted that he would only accept early release if every man captured before him was also released. Whatever happened on the USS Forrestal, his refusal to accept early release, thereby voluntarily staying as a POW in Hanoi removes any truth to calling him a coward.

We don't know the truth but there is good evidence that he was not what everybody thought he was.. There is doubt but all that will be water under the bridge shortly because he will be gone. Good riddance to a RINO.

What I do know is that in 2008 I was a Conservative that always voted Republican but felt that McCain was a RINO egotistical asshole that (although better than Obama) should not be President. I voted for someone else instead.

I also think that without Palin the SOB would have got a few million less votes. He was never the right GOP candidate for President and he has certainly sided with the filthy ass Democrats enough times as a Senator. He is the one that singly handedly stopped Obamacare from being repealed and most of the voters who elected him were against it.

Whether it got him more votes or not is irrelevant

The selection of someone as dim witted as Palin was an embarrassment to a serious candidate

 

[Synthaholic]

McCain spent decades giving conservatives reasons to oppose him, politically.

McCain spent decades voting yes on conservative bills.

 

[Flash]

There is good evidence that McCain was a liar and a coward.


Investigating John McCain's Tragedy at Sea

Investigating John McCain's Tragedy at Sea

Some of those who were on the Forrestal and other persons familiar with the ordnance told me that because the rocket did not hit McCain’s craft, only actions by the pilot could have caused any bomb to fall from McCain’s Skyhawk. These sources — who spoke under the condition that they not be publicly identified — agree with each other that, if any bomb fell from the McCain airplane, it was because of actions that he took either in error or panic upon seeing the fire on the deck or in his hasty exit from the plane. Two switches in the cockpit of a Skyhawk need to be thrown to drop such a bomb, according to the sources.



McCain has gone much further than most veterans in using his military experiences for political purposes, but he has not allowed his military records to be released, save for the list of his awards and medals, all of which were given only after he became a prisoner of war. It is appropriate that he release those records before the election. If his actions contributed to the magnitude of the Forrestal disaster and if he left the burning ship under less than honorable circumstances, that information should be available to voters as they choose their next president. At the very least, John McCain should be asked to explain his actions in the summer of 1967 and tell American voters why he has repeatedly given a false account of Robert Zwerlein’s death.

Since none of this is proven, why not just look at his refusal to accept early release from the Hanoi Hilton. He did that because he did not want to be used for propaganda and because he insisted that he would only accept early release if every man captured before him was also released. Whatever happened on the USS Forrestal, his refusal to accept early release, thereby voluntarily staying as a POW in Hanoi removes any truth to calling him a coward.

We don't know the truth but there is good evidence that he was not what everybody thought he was.. There is doubt but all that will be water under the bridge shortly because he will be gone. Good riddance to a RINO.

What I do know is that in 2008 I was a Conservative that always voted Republican but felt that McCain was a RINO egotistical asshole that (although better than Obama) should not be President. I voted for someone else instead.

I also think that without Palin the SOB would have got a few million less votes. He was never the right GOP candidate for President and he has certainly sided with the filthy ass Democrats enough times as a Senator. He is the one that singly handedly stopped Obamacare from being repealed and most of the voters who elected him were against it.

That is all true. It is also a list of reasons to dislike the man. But calling someone who voluntarily stayed in the Hanoi Hilton a coward is not right. And to call for him to be banned from Arlington is fucked up.

I am a Vietnam veteran and would like to give him the benefit of the doubt but I can't. By the way, being captured does not make one a hero.

I read quite a bit about them and there were hero POWs in Hanoi but I don't think McCain was one of them.

He also broke under pressure. I don't blame him for that because anybody would have.

However, as far as being released even an asshole like him knew that being the son and grandson of Admirals would have been disgraceful and a big propaganda victory of the Communists to being released.

There is some good evidence that he lied and acted like a coward aboard the Forrestal. There is definitive proof that he had a Liberal voting record and was a terrible Presidential candidate. We also know that he hates Trump's agenda to make this country great again. He is a bitter old man that has fucked this country by siding with the Liberals too often.

 

[joaquinmiller]

The guy was a deceiver.
He put on a big act he was a hardcore conservative, then carpetbagged his way into Arizona
He would have been a hero by staying out of politics
..and what's up with that remark of the "intervention in Dallas" when talking about JFK in the debates?

As long as he meets the rules for interment into Arlington, it's none of our business.
However, what does bother me about him was an element of his recent speech to the Air Force Cadets. He told them to "not" put America first.
The whole purpose of a nation having a military is for that military to put its nation first, first to support and first to protect. If the military doesn't do that, there's no sense in having a military. Once he told the cadets that, he became the enemy, as far as I was concerned.

I just read the Commencement Address he gave last fall at the Air Force Academy. It was the most recent speech I could find, and it doesn't contain anything like your claim. Is there some other speech to which you refer?

McCain Commencement Address to the Air Force Academy - Speeches - United States Senator John McCain

 

[Wry Catcher]

There is good evidence that McCain was a liar and a coward.


Investigating John McCain's Tragedy at Sea

Investigating John McCain's Tragedy at Sea

Some of those who were on the Forrestal and other persons familiar with the ordnance told me that because the rocket did not hit McCain’s craft, only actions by the pilot could have caused any bomb to fall from McCain’s Skyhawk. These sources — who spoke under the condition that they not be publicly identified — agree with each other that, if any bomb fell from the McCain airplane, it was because of actions that he took either in error or panic upon seeing the fire on the deck or in his hasty exit from the plane. Two switches in the cockpit of a Skyhawk need to be thrown to drop such a bomb, according to the sources.



McCain has gone much further than most veterans in using his military experiences for political purposes, but he has not allowed his military records to be released, save for the list of his awards and medals, all of which were given only after he became a prisoner of war. It is appropriate that he release those records before the election. If his actions contributed to the magnitude of the Forrestal disaster and if he left the burning ship under less than honorable circumstances, that information should be available to voters as they choose their next president. At the very least, John McCain should be asked to explain his actions in the summer of 1967 and tell American voters why he has repeatedly given a false account of Robert Zwerlein’s death.

Since none of this is proven, why not just look at his refusal to accept early release from the Hanoi Hilton. He did that because he did not want to be used for propaganda and because he insisted that he would only accept early release if every man captured before him was also released. Whatever happened on the USS Forrestal, his refusal to accept early release, thereby voluntarily staying as a POW in Hanoi removes any truth to calling him a coward.

We don't know the truth but there is good evidence that he was not what everybody thought he was.. There is doubt but all that will be water under the bridge shortly because he will be gone. Good riddance to a RINO.

What I do know is that in 2008 I was a Conservative that always voted Republican but felt that McCain was a RINO egotistical asshole that (although better than Obama) should not be President. I voted for someone else instead.

I also think that without Palin the SOB would have got a few million less votes. He was never the right GOP candidate for President and he has certainly sided with the filthy ass Democrats enough times as a Senator. He is the one that singly handedly stopped Obamacare from being repealed and most of the voters who elected him were against it.

That is all true. It is also a list of reasons to dislike the man. But calling someone who voluntarily stayed in the Hanoi Hilton a coward is not right. And to call for him to be banned from Arlington is fucked up.

I am a Vietnam veteran and would like to give him the benefit of the doubt but I can't. By the way, being captured does not make one a hero.

I read quite a bit about them and there were hero POWs in Hanoi but I don't think McCain was one of them.

He also broke under pressure. I don't blame him for that because anybody would have.

However, as far as being released even an asshole like him knew that being the son and grandson of Admirals would have been disgraceful and a big propaganda victory of the Communists to being released.

There is some good evidence that he lied and acted like a coward aboard the Forrestal. There is definitive proof that he had a Liberal voting record and was a terrible Presidential candidate. We also know that he hates Trump's agenda to make this country great again. He is a bitter old man that has fucked this country by siding with the Liberals too often.

I too am a Vietnam era Vet, and never saw the Elephant. Did you?

 

[Doc1]

The guy was a deceiver.
He put on a big act he was a hardcore conservative, then carpetbagged his way into Arizona
He would have been a hero by staying out of politics
..and what's up with that remark of the "intervention in Dallas" when talking about JFK in the debates?

This illustrates just how screwed up and crazy conservatives are.

So true.

Here's a relatively recent list of conservative trends.

There completely faithful right up until the moment they become faithless and unforgiving!

Remember Bush 43? Conservatives followed him unwaveringly right up until the point in his second term when he became historically unpopular and hence toxic. But was conservatism to blame? Not according to conservatives because, to hear them tell the tale, Bush was never REALLY conservative. See how that works?

Conservatives are upset because they think liberals and moderates don't give them enough respect. But why should stupidity and foolishness be respected, regardless from whence it originates?.

You see, conservatives can't be won over by facts, but they can always be hoodwinked with untruths, lies, and wishful thinking, regardless of whether it's climate change or economic change. Take West Virginia as an example. They want to bring back coal. That's only slightly less crazy than the idea that we could bring livery stables and buggy whip manufactures back to prominence. You see, coal simply can no longer adequately compete economically with natural gas. Now, perhaps that will change sometime in the future, but for this point in time, it makes more sense to blame fracking for the downfall of coal than it does to blame some Democratic conspiracy. But still, I wouldn't have all that much of a problem with coal if modern scrubbing technics could take out most of the harmful pollutants like mercury and sulfur dioxide. But again, according to conservatives, that's not necessary because coal is clean. See what I mean?

Enter Donald Trump. He's a man who lies constantly and seemingly has no qualms whatsoever in doing so. He's a man who could have only ONE constituency: It's gullible conservatives who lack any higher education beyond high school and who value an uninformed and overly emotional opinion over a dispassionate fact each and every time they come into conflict in the public square.

Donald Trump and conservatives found each other just like the get rich quick scam artists and the people longing for an easy way to get rich find each other.

So, Donald Trump offered up the lies (and still does), and conservatives ate it up like a dog eats any pizza that falls on the floor. They both got something out of the relationship. Trump got power, a massive tax cut, and a base that blindly follows him. The conservatives get to go to rallies and cheer, and they get to watch the more powerful people in this country squirm at Trump's antics which they enjoy immensely because they could never make that happen on their own in their real lives. In other words, Trump gets money and power, and conservatives get a feeling of extended momentary satisfaction.

But can it last? History shows us that it cannot and will not last. You see, as they say, at some point the truth will out, and even the most trusting of persons will finally have their illusions stripped away when they find that they've been lied to, snookered, cheated, and otherwise taken for the fools that they were. And when that day finally arrives, I expect to hear conservatives say that Trump was never REALLY a conservative! By that point, there will be many other flimflam politicians lining up to take his place. And sadly, the conservatives will be getting in line to enter an auditorium in order to follow wherever the next Trump wants to lead them.

Excellent post.

In a few years, catch phrases like "the swamp" will be as in vogue as the "contract with America"....

Sure, just like "Alt Right" and "Russian Bot".

 

[debbiedowner]

I'd be OK with burying McTraitor in Arlington provided they drove a wooden stake through its heart before passing through the gates inbound.

What the hell is wrong with you people? Did a massive infestation of stupid take over your brains?

If you hadn't notice Admiral the stupid was always there, they do seem to hate veterans.

 

[S.J.]

The fact that every liberal in this thread is defending McCain tells us all we need to know about McCain and validates the criticism of him by conservatives.

 

[rightwinger]

The fact that every liberal in this thread is defending McCain tells us all we need to know about McCain and validates the criticism of him by conservatives.

How about all the votes he made for conservatives?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

You truly are a dumbass.

Got a degree in dumbassery from Yale. Might as well use it.

His medical coverage is from his military service, not his being in the Senate. BTW how do you figure he is still working?

I don't figure on anything. I'm just a dumbass, remember? I'm one of those silly people who when a person holds office as a republican, believes you should actually do things which support and strengthen the party, not weaken it.

I didn't know lock companies gave degrees.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Why don't they just cremate the SOB?

Why is it any of your f-ing business, asshole?

Piss off, bitter little troll boy.

Can't answer a simple question?

 

[Some Guy]

If you hate McCain that much, it tells you much more about the kind of person you are rather than him. You might not agree with everything he says or does but there's no question he loves his country and has done what he thinks is right. Being more toward the middle is something that we should demand from our politicians, not moving more toward the fringes. If you think our current brand of politics is toxic and that it's harmful to the country, then you agree with me.

 

[Correll]

If only McCain had bone spurs then he'd be loved by cons.

McCain flew 23 bombing missions over North Vietnam. A while after he was captured his father was appointed to a high level command position for all US forces in Vietnam. In mid-1968, his father John S. McCain Jr. was named commander of all U.S. forces in the Vietnam theater, and the North Vietnamese offered McCain early release because they wanted to appear merciful for propaganda purposes, and also to show other POWs that elite prisoners were willing to be treated preferentially. McCain refused repatriation unless every man taken in before him was also released. He remained a prisoner until 1973, suffering terrible torture during his time as a prisoner.

He was awarded the Silver Star, the Bronze Star, the Purple Heart, and other medals.

This is who conservatives want to bar from Arlington National Cemetery.

They also favor a draft dodger, whore banger, inveterate liar, con-man, and racist pig Drumpf over USMC Captain Mueller who ably served under Reagan, Bush, Bush II....

Those Conservatives are a weird bunch.

Americans don't give much weight to military serviceDu when it comes to presidential elections.


Carter vs Reagan, non veteran won.


Reagan vs Mondale, both had non combat service.


Bush vs Dukakis. Combat vet won.


Bush vs Clinton. Non veteran won.


Clinton vs DOle Non veteran won.


Bush vs Gore. Both vets, guy with combat service lost.

Bush vs Kerry both vets. guy with combat service lot.


Obama vs McCain, war hero lost.


Obama vs Romney, neither vets.


Trump vs Hillary, neither vets.

Thanks for the input....I was talking about Conservatives more than the American electorate at large. Conservatives are the first ones to proclaim love of the military and the first group to jettison a service veteran if it becomes politically expedient to do so. See McCain, See Mueller, See Kerry, etc... Its all politics, all the time.

Conservatives are the first ones to proclaim love of the military. I agree.


That in no way gives specific individuals with military service a pass for political opposition to us.


McCain spent decades giving conservatives reasons to oppose him, politically. And I never heard him say that the opposition was not deserved or called for, nor that he deserved a pass because of his military service.


Kerry? Kerry was a democrat. We never "had" him to "jettison" him later.

It's not what conservatives say, it is what they do. False pathos are easily discerned when one watches their feet, not their lips.

I was just agreeing with the lib that said it. When a lib says something I agree with, I try to make a point of agreeing. Finding common ground is a rarity and should be noted on the rare occasions it happens.


Do you not agree?



I also agree with you that actions count far more than words.



I assume you dont' think that John McCain's past military service should earn him a pass from conservatives on HIS actions?


Cause that seems to be the point of discussion here.



Did you feel weird voting for Clinton over Dole?