I was wrong... the health of the mother is not valid for an abortion.

[Chuz Life]

There is a reason you avoided the question I asked you yesterday.

I do not know to which question you are referring, but most likely, like most things you post, it was probably not worthy of any response. If I were wise, I'd recognize that about all your postings,and not waste my time or attention. Just because I an foolish enough to waste time and attention on some of your murderous, sociopathic nonsense does not obligate me to waste time and attention on all of it.

There are many things we can pursue that would help a woman decide not to abort. UHC, more affordable access to higher education. A higher minimum wage. A better access to affordable day care.......I can continue.

I find a large percentage of those who call themselves "pro-life" argue against these things even though they would help a woman decide to not abort.

Why is that?

How do you reduce abortion rates?

One way of thinking:
Readily available contraception (gasp - even free!)
Accurate and readily available information on sex, responsibility, and pregnancy prevention.
Supporting a culture that recognizes that while personal responsibility and waiting is important - teens are not adults, their executive functions are not mature - make sure they know how to protect themselves.
Recognize that despite all that there will be woman who will find themselves in an untenable position: pregnant and unable to support a child for whatever reasons.
Provide resources and an environment that supports making a choice FOR the child's life - mentoring, support to remain in school, affordable childcare if she works, paid maternity leave, health insurance to cover her pregnancy and birth, and follow up. All of the above, which would apply, should she choose adoption. Support her choice! That is "pro-choice".

The other way of thinking:
Make abortion illegal.
Force her to have the child, and after birth label her a slut and a welfare parasite, cut the programs that help single mothers, and tell she ought to marry the father.

3. Educate everyone on the facts about when and how a child's life begins. Educate them on the Constitutional right for all persons to the EQUAL protections of our laws. And then fix the laws of society around those two facts.

 

[Coyote]

There is a reason you avoided the question I asked you yesterday.

I do not know to which question you are referring, but most likely, like most things you post, it was probably not worthy of any response. If I were wise, I'd recognize that about all your postings,and not waste my time or attention. Just because I an foolish enough to waste time and attention on some of your murderous, sociopathic nonsense does not obligate me to waste time and attention on all of it.

There are many things we can pursue that would help a woman decide not to abort. UHC, more affordable access to higher education. A higher minimum wage. A better access to affordable day care.......I can continue.

I find a large percentage of those who call themselves "pro-life" argue against these things even though they would help a woman decide to not abort.

Why is that?

How do you reduce abortion rates?

One way of thinking:
Readily available contraception (gasp - even free!)
Accurate and readily available information on sex, responsibility, and pregnancy prevention.
Supporting a culture that recognizes that while personal responsibility and waiting is important - teens are not adults, their executive functions are not mature - make sure they know how to protect themselves.
Recognize that despite all that there will be woman who will find themselves in an untenable position: pregnant and unable to support a child for whatever reasons.
Provide resources and an environment that supports making a choice FOR the child's life - mentoring, support to remain in school, affordable childcare if she works, paid maternity leave, health insurance to cover her pregnancy and birth, and follow up. All of the above, which would apply, should she choose adoption. Support her choice! That is "pro-choice".

The other way of thinking:
Make abortion illegal.
Force her to have the child, and after birth label her a slut and a welfare parasite, cut the programs that help single mothers, and tell she ought to marry the father.

3. Edicate everyone on the facts about when and how a child's life begins. Educate them on the Constitutional right for all persons, to the EQUAL protections of our laws. And fix the laws of society around those two facts.

Yes. Forget the mother, her needs, her rights, the support she needs to make a choice FOR life - that is irrelevant right? SHE doesn't count. SHE doesn't matter. Nor does it matter what happens once the child is born.

 

[Chuz Life]

Are you suggesting that (mostly unavoidable) war atrocities are somehow justification for an acceptance abortions?

It would seem, rather, that what is suggested is that protesting against abortion obligates protesting slaughter of civilians.

Obligates. . .

Right.

But not the other way around?

Why doesn't your (supposed) outrage over children killed in war not also "obligate" you to fight abortion?

That knife cuts both ways.

There is no comparison between terminating a pregnancy and "murdering a child". Women have the God-given right to decide when and if, we are going to have a baby, and screw any man who would take away our right to determine when and if we are going to have a baby.

The ways and means of avoiding having an abortion, if you believe that having an abortion is wrong, including, but not limited to, keep it in your pants if you are a man, and for women who think abortion is wrong, dont have an abortion. This isn't a matter of don't steal something, because forcing a woman to parent a child she cannot afford or doesn't want, never turns out well for either the mother or the child.

You want children to exist, to what end? You don't want to pay to feed, house or educate these children, so why are you so desperate for these children to be born? If you helped women take care of these children, they would be in a better position to welcome these babies.

My youngest daughter says that many young women of her generation are refusing to have children at all. Child care and the cost of raising a child is so high, that young women feel they will never have any quality of life at all if they have a child. Many are getting their tubes tied in their 20's before ohaving children.

Biology 101 newsflash for you. . .

If a woman is pregnant, she already HAS a child.

Whether she might not want it or not. . . And guess what!?!

Children have a right to the equal protections of our laws.

So do pregnant women.

No duh.

Do pregnant women have the right to violate the rights of anyone else?

 

[Coyote]

It would seem, rather, that what is suggested is that protesting against abortion obligates protesting slaughter of civilians.

Obligates. . .

Right.

But not the other way around?

Why doesn't your (supposed) outrage over children killed in war not also "obligate" you to fight abortion?

That knife cuts both ways.

There is no comparison between terminating a pregnancy and "murdering a child". Women have the God-given right to decide when and if, we are going to have a baby, and screw any man who would take away our right to determine when and if we are going to have a baby.

The ways and means of avoiding having an abortion, if you believe that having an abortion is wrong, including, but not limited to, keep it in your pants if you are a man, and for women who think abortion is wrong, dont have an abortion. This isn't a matter of don't steal something, because forcing a woman to parent a child she cannot afford or doesn't want, never turns out well for either the mother or the child.

You want children to exist, to what end? You don't want to pay to feed, house or educate these children, so why are you so desperate for these children to be born? If you helped women take care of these children, they would be in a better position to welcome these babies.

My youngest daughter says that many young women of her generation are refusing to have children at all. Child care and the cost of raising a child is so high, that young women feel they will never have any quality of life at all if they have a child. Many are getting their tubes tied in their 20's before ohaving children.

Biology 101 newsflash for you. . .

If a woman is pregnant, she already HAS a child.

Whether she might not want it or not. . . And guess what!?!

Children have a right to the equal protections of our laws.

So do pregnant women.

No duh.

Do pregnant women have the right to biplate the rights of anyone else?

They have the right to their own bodies and to choices regarding their bodies. You know. The same right you men have.

 

[Chuz Life]

There is a reason you avoided the question I asked you yesterday.

I do not know to which question you are referring, but most likely, like most things you post, it was probably not worthy of any response. If I were wise, I'd recognize that about all your postings,and not waste my time or attention. Just because I an foolish enough to waste time and attention on some of your murderous, sociopathic nonsense does not obligate me to waste time and attention on all of it.

There are many things we can pursue that would help a woman decide not to abort. UHC, more affordable access to higher education. A higher minimum wage. A better access to affordable day care.......I can continue.

I find a large percentage of those who call themselves "pro-life" argue against these things even though they would help a woman decide to not abort.

Why is that?

How do you reduce abortion rates?

One way of thinking:
Readily available contraception (gasp - even free!)
Accurate and readily available information on sex, responsibility, and pregnancy prevention.
Supporting a culture that recognizes that while personal responsibility and waiting is important - teens are not adults, their executive functions are not mature - make sure they know how to protect themselves.
Recognize that despite all that there will be woman who will find themselves in an untenable position: pregnant and unable to support a child for whatever reasons.
Provide resources and an environment that supports making a choice FOR the child's life - mentoring, support to remain in school, affordable childcare if she works, paid maternity leave, health insurance to cover her pregnancy and birth, and follow up. All of the above, which would apply, should she choose adoption. Support her choice! That is "pro-choice".

The other way of thinking:
Make abortion illegal.
Force her to have the child, and after birth label her a slut and a welfare parasite, cut the programs that help single mothers, and tell she ought to marry the father.

3. Edicate everyone on the facts about when and how a child's life begins. Educate them on the Constitutional right for all persons, to the EQUAL protections of our laws. And fix the laws of society around those two facts.

Yes. Forget the mother, her needs, her rights, the support she needs to make a choice for life - that is irrelevant right? SHE doesn't count. SHE doesn't matter. Nor does it matter what happens once the child is born.

We already have sufficient laws to protect the rights of the mothers.

Contrary to your incessant whining about it, a woman's rights are not violated by laws that prohibit her from violating, molesting or murdering a child.

 

[Chuz Life]

Obligates. . .

Right.

But not the other way around?

Why doesn't your (supposed) outrage over children killed in war not also "obligate" you to fight abortion?

That knife cuts both ways.

There is no comparison between terminating a pregnancy and "murdering a child". Women have the God-given right to decide when and if, we are going to have a baby, and screw any man who would take away our right to determine when and if we are going to have a baby.

The ways and means of avoiding having an abortion, if you believe that having an abortion is wrong, including, but not limited to, keep it in your pants if you are a man, and for women who think abortion is wrong, dont have an abortion. This isn't a matter of don't steal something, because forcing a woman to parent a child she cannot afford or doesn't want, never turns out well for either the mother or the child.

You want children to exist, to what end? You don't want to pay to feed, house or educate these children, so why are you so desperate for these children to be born? If you helped women take care of these children, they would be in a better position to welcome these babies.

My youngest daughter says that many young women of her generation are refusing to have children at all. Child care and the cost of raising a child is so high, that young women feel they will never have any quality of life at all if they have a child. Many are getting their tubes tied in their 20's before ohaving children.

Biology 101 newsflash for you. . .

If a woman is pregnant, she already HAS a child.

Whether she might not want it or not. . . And guess what!?!

Children have a right to the equal protections of our laws.

So do pregnant women.

No duh.

Do pregnant women have the right to biplate the rights of anyone else?

They have the right to their own bodies and to choices regarding their bodies. You know. The same right you men have.

I need to follow this up, when I get more time.

Flagging it by this reply.

Work happens.

 

[Coyote]

I do not know to which question you are referring, but most likely, like most things you post, it was probably not worthy of any response. If I were wise, I'd recognize that about all your postings,and not waste my time or attention. Just because I an foolish enough to waste time and attention on some of your murderous, sociopathic nonsense does not obligate me to waste time and attention on all of it.

There are many things we can pursue that would help a woman decide not to abort. UHC, more affordable access to higher education. A higher minimum wage. A better access to affordable day care.......I can continue.

I find a large percentage of those who call themselves "pro-life" argue against these things even though they would help a woman decide to not abort.

Why is that?

How do you reduce abortion rates?

One way of thinking:
Readily available contraception (gasp - even free!)
Accurate and readily available information on sex, responsibility, and pregnancy prevention.
Supporting a culture that recognizes that while personal responsibility and waiting is important - teens are not adults, their executive functions are not mature - make sure they know how to protect themselves.
Recognize that despite all that there will be woman who will find themselves in an untenable position: pregnant and unable to support a child for whatever reasons.
Provide resources and an environment that supports making a choice FOR the child's life - mentoring, support to remain in school, affordable childcare if she works, paid maternity leave, health insurance to cover her pregnancy and birth, and follow up. All of the above, which would apply, should she choose adoption. Support her choice! That is "pro-choice".

The other way of thinking:
Make abortion illegal.
Force her to have the child, and after birth label her a slut and a welfare parasite, cut the programs that help single mothers, and tell she ought to marry the father.

3. Edicate everyone on the facts about when and how a child's life begins. Educate them on the Constitutional right for all persons, to the EQUAL protections of our laws. And fix the laws of society around those two facts.

Yes. Forget the mother, her needs, her rights, the support she needs to make a choice for life - that is irrelevant right? SHE doesn't count. SHE doesn't matter. Nor does it matter what happens once the child is born.

We already have sufficient laws to protect the rights of the mothers.

Contrary to your incessant whining about it, a woman's rights are not violated by laws that prohibit her from violating, molesting or murdering a child.

I'm not talking about just protecting rights. I'm talking about creating an environment that supports making the choice - supporting LIFE. You just want to MANDATE it, and then tell her she's fucked - she has all the rights a slut needs and when the child is born - she can bugger off.

 

[Coyote]

I do not know to which question you are referring, but most likely, like most things you post, it was probably not worthy of any response. If I were wise, I'd recognize that about all your postings,and not waste my time or attention. Just because I an foolish enough to waste time and attention on some of your murderous, sociopathic nonsense does not obligate me to waste time and attention on all of it.

There are many things we can pursue that would help a woman decide not to abort. UHC, more affordable access to higher education. A higher minimum wage. A better access to affordable day care.......I can continue.

I find a large percentage of those who call themselves "pro-life" argue against these things even though they would help a woman decide to not abort.

Why is that?

How do you reduce abortion rates?

One way of thinking:
Readily available contraception (gasp - even free!)
Accurate and readily available information on sex, responsibility, and pregnancy prevention.
Supporting a culture that recognizes that while personal responsibility and waiting is important - teens are not adults, their executive functions are not mature - make sure they know how to protect themselves.
Recognize that despite all that there will be woman who will find themselves in an untenable position: pregnant and unable to support a child for whatever reasons.
Provide resources and an environment that supports making a choice FOR the child's life - mentoring, support to remain in school, affordable childcare if she works, paid maternity leave, health insurance to cover her pregnancy and birth, and follow up. All of the above, which would apply, should she choose adoption. Support her choice! That is "pro-choice".

The other way of thinking:
Make abortion illegal.
Force her to have the child, and after birth label her a slut and a welfare parasite, cut the programs that help single mothers, and tell she ought to marry the father.

3. Edicate everyone on the facts about when and how a child's life begins. Educate them on the Constitutional right for all persons, to the EQUAL protections of our laws. And fix the laws of society around those two facts.

Yes. Forget the mother, her needs, her rights, the support she needs to make a choice for life - that is irrelevant right? SHE doesn't count. SHE doesn't matter. Nor does it matter what happens once the child is born.

We already have sufficient laws to protect the rights of the mothers.

Contrary to your incessant whining about it, a woman's rights are not violated by laws that prohibit her from violating, molesting or murdering a child.

Why yes. They are.

She might not have health insurance.
She might have to drop out of school.
She might lose her job.
She might die.

Not that you care.

 

[Asclepias]

If you are a Democrat, this is what you are voting for:
View attachment 311753

That looks alot like Chuz avatar.

 

[Frankeneinstein]

To me a fertilized egg is not yet a human being, any more than a blueprint is a house.

The problem you are having is using the phrase "human being" in place of "a life"...a blue print is not a house because it is just an idea without a physical foundation where has a fetus is the foundation for life...a blueprint is the equivalent of deciding to have or not have a baby, a foundation for a house is the equivalent a fetus

A baby at birth is a person and has the right to live.

what about one minute before that? does a chicken or an insect have more rights than a human fetus? should they?

Somewhere between those two extremes is a line where abortions (except in very rare cases) should be banned. I'm not sure where that line is but it is our brains that make us different from any other animal, a heart is just not the same. Once that brain truly begins to function, that is a person. IMHO of course.

I believe brain waves start very early in the womb,[perhaps electronic brain waves is the correct term] and while a heartbeat may not be the same to you it is a sure sign of life...I lean pro-choice but make no phony claims of morality, it is for convenience purposes...if the law is changed then I will obey it.

 

[Chuz Life]

There are many things we can pursue that would help a woman decide not to abort. UHC, more affordable access to higher education. A higher minimum wage. A better access to affordable day care.......I can continue.

I find a large percentage of those who call themselves "pro-life" argue against these things even though they would help a woman decide to not abort.

Why is that?

How do you reduce abortion rates?

One way of thinking:
Readily available contraception (gasp - even free!)
Accurate and readily available information on sex, responsibility, and pregnancy prevention.
Supporting a culture that recognizes that while personal responsibility and waiting is important - teens are not adults, their executive functions are not mature - make sure they know how to protect themselves.
Recognize that despite all that there will be woman who will find themselves in an untenable position: pregnant and unable to support a child for whatever reasons.
Provide resources and an environment that supports making a choice FOR the child's life - mentoring, support to remain in school, affordable childcare if she works, paid maternity leave, health insurance to cover her pregnancy and birth, and follow up. All of the above, which would apply, should she choose adoption. Support her choice! That is "pro-choice".

The other way of thinking:
Make abortion illegal.
Force her to have the child, and after birth label her a slut and a welfare parasite, cut the programs that help single mothers, and tell she ought to marry the father.

3. Edicate everyone on the facts about when and how a child's life begins. Educate them on the Constitutional right for all persons, to the EQUAL protections of our laws. And fix the laws of society around those two facts.

Yes. Forget the mother, her needs, her rights, the support she needs to make a choice for life - that is irrelevant right? SHE doesn't count. SHE doesn't matter. Nor does it matter what happens once the child is born.

We already have sufficient laws to protect the rights of the mothers.

Contrary to your incessant whining about it, a woman's rights are not violated by laws that prohibit her from violating, molesting or murdering a child.

Why yes. They are.

She might not have health insurance.
She might have to drop out of school.
She might lose her job.
She might die.

Not that you care.

You just claimed that women have a right to violate, molest and murder children to keep their jobs and stay in school.

You do realize that you are claiming that.

Correct?

 

[Asclepias]

To me a fertilized egg is not yet a human being, any more than a blueprint is a house.

The problem you are having is using the phrase "human being" in place of "a life"...a blue print is not a house because it is just an idea without a physical foundation where has a fetus is the foundation for life...a blueprint is the equivalent of deciding to have or not have a baby, a foundation for a house is the equivalent a fetus

A baby at birth is a person and has the right to live.

what about one minute before that? does a chicken or an insect have more rights than a human fetus? should they?

Somewhere between those two extremes is a line where abortions (except in very rare cases) should be banned. I'm not sure where that line is but it is our brains that make us different from any other animal, a heart is just not the same. Once that brain truly begins to function, that is a person. IMHO of course.

I believe brain waves start very early in the womb,[perhaps electronic brain waves is the correct term] and while a heartbeat may not be the same to you it is a sure sign of life...I lean pro-choice but make no phony claims of morality, it is for convenience purposes...if the law is changed then I will obey it.

Brain waves are not a sign of life. Any ER medical personnel will tell you the same thing. The brain continues to work after you die in many cases.

Life continues in the brain after people die, scientists find in shock study

"Canadian doctors in an intensive care unit appear to have observed a person's brain continuing to work even after they were declared clinically dead.

In the case, doctors confirmed their patient was dead through a range of the normal observations, including the absence of a pulse and unreactive pupils. But tests showed that the patients’ brain appeared to keep working – experiencing the same kind of brain waves that are seen during deep sleep."

 

[pknopp]

There is a reason you avoided the question I asked you yesterday.

I do not know to which question you are referring, but most likely, like most things you post, it was probably not worthy of any response. If I were wise, I'd recognize that about all your postings,and not waste my time or attention. Just because I an foolish enough to waste time and attention on some of your murderous, sociopathic nonsense does not obligate me to waste time and attention on all of it.

There are many things we can pursue that would help a woman decide not to abort. UHC, more affordable access to higher education. A higher minimum wage. A better access to affordable day care.......I can continue.

I find a large percentage of those who call themselves "pro-life" argue against these things even though they would help a woman decide to not abort.

Why is that?

How do you reduce abortion rates?

One way of thinking:
Readily available contraception (gasp - even free!)
Accurate and readily available information on sex, responsibility, and pregnancy prevention.
Supporting a culture that recognizes that while personal responsibility and waiting is important - teens are not adults, their executive functions are not mature - make sure they know how to protect themselves.
Recognize that despite all that there will be woman who will find themselves in an untenable position: pregnant and unable to support a child for whatever reasons.
Provide resources and an environment that supports making a choice FOR the child's life - mentoring, support to remain in school, affordable childcare if she works, paid maternity leave, health insurance to cover her pregnancy and birth, and follow up. All of the above, which would apply, should she choose adoption. Support her choice! That is "pro-choice".

The other way of thinking:
Make abortion illegal.
Force her to have the child, and after birth label her a slut and a welfare parasite, cut the programs that help single mothers, and tell she ought to marry the father.

3. Educate everyone on the facts about when and how a child's life begins. Educate them on the Constitutional right for all persons to the EQUAL protections of our laws. And then fix the laws of society around those two facts.

We aren't going to ban abortion. It's not going to happen. There are things we can do.

I've still not seen an answer as to why we will not

 

[pknopp]

How do you reduce abortion rates?

One way of thinking:
Readily available contraception (gasp - even free!)
Accurate and readily available information on sex, responsibility, and pregnancy prevention.
Supporting a culture that recognizes that while personal responsibility and waiting is important - teens are not adults, their executive functions are not mature - make sure they know how to protect themselves.
Recognize that despite all that there will be woman who will find themselves in an untenable position: pregnant and unable to support a child for whatever reasons.
Provide resources and an environment that supports making a choice FOR the child's life - mentoring, support to remain in school, affordable childcare if she works, paid maternity leave, health insurance to cover her pregnancy and birth, and follow up. All of the above, which would apply, should she choose adoption. Support her choice! That is "pro-choice".

The other way of thinking:
Make abortion illegal.
Force her to have the child, and after birth label her a slut and a welfare parasite, cut the programs that help single mothers, and tell she ought to marry the father.

3. Edicate everyone on the facts about when and how a child's life begins. Educate them on the Constitutional right for all persons, to the EQUAL protections of our laws. And fix the laws of society around those two facts.

Yes. Forget the mother, her needs, her rights, the support she needs to make a choice for life - that is irrelevant right? SHE doesn't count. SHE doesn't matter. Nor does it matter what happens once the child is born.

We already have sufficient laws to protect the rights of the mothers.

Contrary to your incessant whining about it, a woman's rights are not violated by laws that prohibit her from violating, molesting or murdering a child.

Why yes. They are.

She might not have health insurance.
She might have to drop out of school.
She might lose her job.
She might die.

Not that you care.

You just claimed that women have a right to violate, molest and murder children to keep their jobs and stay in school.

You do realize that you are claiming that.

Correct?

Legally they do have that right.

 

[Asclepias]

How do you reduce abortion rates?

One way of thinking:
Readily available contraception (gasp - even free!)
Accurate and readily available information on sex, responsibility, and pregnancy prevention.
Supporting a culture that recognizes that while personal responsibility and waiting is important - teens are not adults, their executive functions are not mature - make sure they know how to protect themselves.
Recognize that despite all that there will be woman who will find themselves in an untenable position: pregnant and unable to support a child for whatever reasons.
Provide resources and an environment that supports making a choice FOR the child's life - mentoring, support to remain in school, affordable childcare if she works, paid maternity leave, health insurance to cover her pregnancy and birth, and follow up. All of the above, which would apply, should she choose adoption. Support her choice! That is "pro-choice".

The other way of thinking:
Make abortion illegal.
Force her to have the child, and after birth label her a slut and a welfare parasite, cut the programs that help single mothers, and tell she ought to marry the father.

3. Edicate everyone on the facts about when and how a child's life begins. Educate them on the Constitutional right for all persons, to the EQUAL protections of our laws. And fix the laws of society around those two facts.

Yes. Forget the mother, her needs, her rights, the support she needs to make a choice for life - that is irrelevant right? SHE doesn't count. SHE doesn't matter. Nor does it matter what happens once the child is born.

We already have sufficient laws to protect the rights of the mothers.

Contrary to your incessant whining about it, a woman's rights are not violated by laws that prohibit her from violating, molesting or murdering a child.

Why yes. They are.

She might not have health insurance.
She might have to drop out of school.
She might lose her job.
She might die.

Not that you care.

You just claimed that women have a right to violate, molest and murder children to keep their jobs and stay in school.

You do realize that you are claiming that.

Correct?

Thats correct if you dont volunteer to carry the child to term and be financially responsible for the child after its born. If youre not going to do that then the woman can tell you to fuck off and mind your own business.

 

[Coyote]

How do you reduce abortion rates?

One way of thinking:
Readily available contraception (gasp - even free!)
Accurate and readily available information on sex, responsibility, and pregnancy prevention.
Supporting a culture that recognizes that while personal responsibility and waiting is important - teens are not adults, their executive functions are not mature - make sure they know how to protect themselves.
Recognize that despite all that there will be woman who will find themselves in an untenable position: pregnant and unable to support a child for whatever reasons.
Provide resources and an environment that supports making a choice FOR the child's life - mentoring, support to remain in school, affordable childcare if she works, paid maternity leave, health insurance to cover her pregnancy and birth, and follow up. All of the above, which would apply, should she choose adoption. Support her choice! That is "pro-choice".

The other way of thinking:
Make abortion illegal.
Force her to have the child, and after birth label her a slut and a welfare parasite, cut the programs that help single mothers, and tell she ought to marry the father.

3. Edicate everyone on the facts about when and how a child's life begins. Educate them on the Constitutional right for all persons, to the EQUAL protections of our laws. And fix the laws of society around those two facts.

Yes. Forget the mother, her needs, her rights, the support she needs to make a choice for life - that is irrelevant right? SHE doesn't count. SHE doesn't matter. Nor does it matter what happens once the child is born.

We already have sufficient laws to protect the rights of the mothers.

Contrary to your incessant whining about it, a woman's rights are not violated by laws that prohibit her from violating, molesting or murdering a child.

Why yes. They are.

She might not have health insurance.
She might have to drop out of school.
She might lose her job.
She might die.

Not that you care.

You just claimed that women have a right to violate, molest and murder children to keep their jobs and stay in school.

You do realize that you are claiming that.

Correct?

Did you just say the woman has no rights in this?

 

[Coyote]

3. Edicate everyone on the facts about when and how a child's life begins. Educate them on the Constitutional right for all persons, to the EQUAL protections of our laws. And fix the laws of society around those two facts.

Yes. Forget the mother, her needs, her rights, the support she needs to make a choice for life - that is irrelevant right? SHE doesn't count. SHE doesn't matter. Nor does it matter what happens once the child is born.

We already have sufficient laws to protect the rights of the mothers.

Contrary to your incessant whining about it, a woman's rights are not violated by laws that prohibit her from violating, molesting or murdering a child.

Why yes. They are.

She might not have health insurance.
She might have to drop out of school.
She might lose her job.
She might die.

Not that you care.

You just claimed that women have a right to violate, molest and murder children to keep their jobs and stay in school.

You do realize that you are claiming that.

Correct?

Thats correct if you dont volunteer to carry the child to term and be financially responsible for the child after its born. If youre not going to do that then the woman can tell you to fuck off and mind your own business.

His response is exactly the typical response of that type of pro-lifer. ALL that matters is that the baby is born. The mother is of ZERO value. There is no thought given to how we, as a community, might make the choice to have the child the best one. That doesn't matter. It can utterly ruin her life - she can be unemployed, on welfare (they call those women welfare parasites), drop out of school - who cares? SHE doesn't matter. SHE is a slut.

 

[Coyote]

To me a fertilized egg is not yet a human being, any more than a blueprint is a house.

The problem you are having is using the phrase "human being" in place of "a life"...a blue print is not a house because it is just an idea without a physical foundation where has a fetus is the foundation for life...a blueprint is the equivalent of deciding to have or not have a baby, a foundation for a house is the equivalent a fetus

A baby at birth is a person and has the right to live.

what about one minute before that? does a chicken or an insect have more rights than a human fetus? should they?

Somewhere between those two extremes is a line where abortions (except in very rare cases) should be banned. I'm not sure where that line is but it is our brains that make us different from any other animal, a heart is just not the same. Once that brain truly begins to function, that is a person. IMHO of course.

I believe brain waves start very early in the womb,[perhaps electronic brain waves is the correct term] and while a heartbeat may not be the same to you it is a sure sign of life...I lean pro-choice but make no phony claims of morality, it is for convenience purposes...if the law is changed then I will obey it.

Brain waves are not a sign of life. Any ER medical personnel will tell you the same thing. The brain continues to work after you die in many cases.

Life continues in the brain after people die, scientists find in shock study

"Canadian doctors in an intensive care unit appear to have observed a person's brain continuing to work even after they were declared clinically dead.

In the case, doctors confirmed their patient was dead through a range of the normal observations, including the absence of a pulse and unreactive pupils. But tests showed that the patients’ brain appeared to keep working – experiencing the same kind of brain waves that are seen during deep sleep."

IMO, viability is the line where restrictions on abortion begin.

 

[Eyepublius]

Caution disturbing photos - deformed fetuses... would you want to put your wife through delivery?

]Utah Medical Center library:

https://webpath.med.utah.edu/PEDHTML/PED226.html

 

[Asclepias]

To me a fertilized egg is not yet a human being, any more than a blueprint is a house.

The problem you are having is using the phrase "human being" in place of "a life"...a blue print is not a house because it is just an idea without a physical foundation where has a fetus is the foundation for life...a blueprint is the equivalent of deciding to have or not have a baby, a foundation for a house is the equivalent a fetus

A baby at birth is a person and has the right to live.

what about one minute before that? does a chicken or an insect have more rights than a human fetus? should they?

Somewhere between those two extremes is a line where abortions (except in very rare cases) should be banned. I'm not sure where that line is but it is our brains that make us different from any other animal, a heart is just not the same. Once that brain truly begins to function, that is a person. IMHO of course.

I believe brain waves start very early in the womb,[perhaps electronic brain waves is the correct term] and while a heartbeat may not be the same to you it is a sure sign of life...I lean pro-choice but make no phony claims of morality, it is for convenience purposes...if the law is changed then I will obey it.

Brain waves are not a sign of life. Any ER medical personnel will tell you the same thing. The brain continues to work after you die in many cases.

Life continues in the brain after people die, scientists find in shock study

"Canadian doctors in an intensive care unit appear to have observed a person's brain continuing to work even after they were declared clinically dead.

In the case, doctors confirmed their patient was dead through a range of the normal observations, including the absence of a pulse and unreactive pupils. But tests showed that the patients’ brain appeared to keep working – experiencing the same kind of brain waves that are seen during deep sleep."

IMO, viability is the line where restrictions on abortion begin.

Who determines the viability though? I'm pretty sure there is no definite time period for each and every fetus. People have trouble with children carried to full term as it is.