I was wrong... the health of the mother is not valid for an abortion.

Giving birth has a higher mortality rate in this country, then abortion. By far

That's a flat-out lie, and you know it.

Every successful abortion results in the death of an innocent child. That's a 100% mortality rate.

The vast majority of live births do not.
 
QUESTION for all. . .

Does the Constitution say that

1. "all persons" have a right to their life and to the EQUAL protections of our laws?

Or,

2. does the Constitution say that only "VIABLE" persons have those rights?

How many leftards will answer honestly?

HINT: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person (citizen or not) of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."-14th Amendment

You forgot the very first line: All persons born

but that remains the case, as republicans fight and kick against supporting an infant, and even go as far as calling them "welfare Moms". You have your cake and eat it as well. Make sure you are pro life and carry to term and give birth, but once you give birth , if you don't have the means to care for yourself and your infant,

TOO BAD.


that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that
among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

People are endowed by their creator, even if creation is evolution.
You might want to comprehend this:

any person (citizen or not) of life,


there is no proof evolution exist or happened,,,

Do you think God created Adam and Eve, and who did Cain have sex with, Eve??
 
Watching Schumer threaten SCOTUS judges if they rule against Roe VS Wade made me wonder about my own knowledge regarding my position... abortion OK only in case of health of money, rape or incest.
I am wrong!
Even in 1981, former Surgeon General of the United States Dr. C. Everett Koop said, “The fact of the matter is that abortion as a necessity to save the life of the mother is so rare as to be nonexistent.”

But as former abortionist Dr. Anthony Levatino has affirmed on the record:
During my time at Albany Medical Center I managed hundreds of such cases by “terminating” pregnancies to save mother’s lives. In all those cases, the number of unborn children that I had to deliberately kill was zero.
What Percentage of Abortions Are Medically Necessary?

But the biased MSM has never shared that with us.
Consequently since 1973 over 61,781,054 lives were destroyed.
Think about that...what baby among those 62 million could have discovered cures for cancer? Or made other fantastic contributions...all because a woman wasn't responsible enough.
Number of Abortions in US & Worldwide - Number of abortions since 1973

Just consider that: 46% of all abortions were performed on women who had one or more abortions before!
Think about it... There is an excuse for first timers... but 2nd, or 3 or more previous abortions?

Planned Parenthood Turns 99 Today: Has Killed 7 Million Babies in Abortions


One former Doctor who was an abortionist stated that in terms of an abortion.....giving birth is safer.....since you have to inject drugs into the woman to get her to dilate so you can get the pieces of the dead baby out.....
Watching Schumer threaten SCOTUS judges if they rule against Roe VS Wade made me wonder about my own knowledge regarding my position... abortion OK only in case of health of money, rape or incest.
I am wrong!
Even in 1981, former Surgeon General of the United States Dr. C. Everett Koop said, “The fact of the matter is that abortion as a necessity to save the life of the mother is so rare as to be nonexistent.”

But as former abortionist Dr. Anthony Levatino has affirmed on the record:
During my time at Albany Medical Center I managed hundreds of such cases by “terminating” pregnancies to save mother’s lives. In all those cases, the number of unborn children that I had to deliberately kill was zero.
What Percentage of Abortions Are Medically Necessary?

But the biased MSM has never shared that with us.
Consequently since 1973 over 61,781,054 lives were destroyed.
Think about that...what baby among those 62 million could have discovered cures for cancer? Or made other fantastic contributions...all because a woman wasn't responsible enough.
Number of Abortions in US & Worldwide - Number of abortions since 1973

Just consider that: 46% of all abortions were performed on women who had one or more abortions before!
Think about it... There is an excuse for first timers... but 2nd, or 3 or more previous abortions?

Planned Parenthood Turns 99 Today: Has Killed 7 Million Babies in Abortions


One former Doctor who was an abortionist stated that in terms of an abortion.....giving birth is safer.....since you have to inject drugs into the woman to get her to dilate so you can get the pieces of the dead baby out.....

That is total bullshit, which is why you can’t provide a substantive citation to support that assertion. Abortion is far safer for women medically than the much, much higher risks of serious complications and death that full term pregnancy and childbirth pose.


The facts are you are RIGHT!
In the one recent comparative study of pregnancy morbidity in the United States, pregnancy-related complications were more common with childbirth than with abortion.

CONCLUSION:
Legal induced abortion is markedly safer than childbirth. The risk of death associated with childbirth is approximately 14 times higher than that with abortion. Similarly, the overall morbidity associated with childbirth exceeds that with abortion.
The comparative safety of legal induced abortion and childbirth in the United States. - PubMed - NCBI

And I don't disagree with the facts.

This doesn't alter the reality that nearly half of all abortions were done on women who stupidly got pregnant AGAIN after having an abortion!
These dumb ass women who KNOWING the consequences of killing a human, continued their irresponsible behavior.
These women should be sterilized! You have one abortion...I understand... but to ignore the reality that if you were pregnant once and had an abortion,
shouldn't that be a warning sign? Stupid women that have multiple abortions should be sterilized.


The average likelihood that an abortion was a “first time” abortion (performed on a woman who had not had a prior induced termination) is 53.92%.
This means that (i) 46.08% of all abortions were performed on woman who had a previous procedure,
and (ii) the average likelihood that a woman would have a first time abortion was 0.945%.
The average likelihood that a woman had 1 prior abortion was 25.78%.
This means that a woman who received 1 prior abortion had a 47.8% chance of having a second abortion.
The average likelihood that a woman had 2 prior abortions was 11.03%.
This means that a woman who received 2 prior abortions had a 42% chance of having a third abortion.
The average likelihood that a woman had 3+ prior abortions was 7.4%.
This means that a woman who received 3+ prior abortions had a 67% chance of having additional abortions.

US Abortion Statistics: An Honest Analysis | National Economics Editorial

I mind my own business and you should do the same. The republican's are taking charge to outlaw abortions, which will lead to back street abortions for the poorer people, while the rich have health ins and go in under the guise of a D & C and get abortions.
 
I have always been pro choice. But I used to be a democrat too, lol. I have not changed my stance on abortion....BUT...I call it murder now if they fetus is killed just prior to birth or after being born because "mom" decided she didn't want the hassle. This includes women that were raped. Common sense is...if you were raped, then you would automatically check yourself to make sure you don't wind up pregnant and do something way way WAY before it gets beyond the size of a kidney bean.

Yet, women are waiting much too long, then having it aborted. Planned parenthood was busted recently by being recorded as discussing the sale of fetus heads and hearts. For what purpose? I have no clue. What the fuck do they want with a fetus head???? One woman said fetuses can't scream when they are cut up...because their vocal cords are not developed enough yet, plus she makes sure they can't make noise by "snipping" that area. One woman said she was told to cut the face off the fetus head. Yes, the face. WTF is this shit??? What the fuck is wrong with people who could do such a thing and discuss it over lunch and worse, what kind of person would do that to the fetus when it is almost fully formed or already formed? That is just wrong on so many levels.

So....sure. Abort it. But do it when its the size of a pea. Otherwise, you are scum and a murderer.

Investigative Footage – The Center for Medical Progress

Abortionist: Babies can’t scream while I abort them because I cut their cords first

Your entire post totally ignores the fact that the anti-choice misogynist pigs deliberately go to any lengths to deny women access to ways to terminate a pregnancy at the stage when the zygote/fetus is not yet "the size of a kidney bean," or "the size of a pea," time being of the essence. Their tactics necessarily involve delay. It is a fact that a person does not know that she is pregnant the instant that a fertilized egg has attached to the uterine wall. There is an organization in Europe that provides drugs over the internet for people who have discovered that they are pregnant and wish to terminate. Why is this service not available in the U.S. and not widely known?

You demand that people act quickly but, at the same time, support denying people access to methods to do so. Which is it? Can you supply contact information for a woman who wants to act quickly? Logically, no one wants to wait the weeks/months that it takes to require an expensive surgical procedure.

Nobody would wait until "just prior to birth" to have an abortion. What would be the sense in that? This argument apparently has been spun by right wingers out of situations of medical emergency, the facts of which are not known because every situation is different and only the medical professional in the room know what it is. This does not occur because the woman doesn't "want the hassle."

The "Center for Medical Progress" is the fraudulent name for a right-wing group that has no medical expertise and merely promotes forced birth.

Again. Provide information for people experiencing an unwanted pregnancy, particularly poor people and people in rural areas, to promptly take action. Also, support organizations like Planned Parenthood that provide necessary services to people who wish to prevent unwanted pregnancies.
 
Everyone knows what happens in a late term abortion. The baby is rotated inside the mother's womb to cause a "breach birth" where the feet emerge first. It has to be painful and dangerous and there is no medical reason for it. When Clinton vetoed the late term abortion bill he paraded a lineup of women who claimed that their health was in jeopardy but that can't be true. You don't need to have a medical degree to determine that a "normal" birth would have saved the baby's life and would have been easier and less dangerous for the mother. How can anyone defend the late term abortion procedure from a medical standpoint?
 
Everyone knows what happens in a late term abortion. The baby is rotated inside the mother's womb to cause a "breach birth" where the feet emerge first. It has to be painful and dangerous and there is no medical reason for it. When Clinton vetoed the late term abortion bill he paraded a lineup of women who claimed that their health was in jeopardy but that can't be true. You don't need to have a medical degree to determine that a "normal" birth would have saved the baby's life and would have been easier and less dangerous for the mother. How can anyone defend the late term abortion procedure from a medical standpoint?

No one has a late term abortion except for a women who really wants to birth a live infant. Also there are few of them.
 
QUESTION for all. . .

Does the Constitution say that

1. "all persons" have a right to their life and to the EQUAL protections of our laws?

Or,

2. does the Constitution say that only "VIABLE" persons have those rights?

How many leftards will answer honestly?

HINT: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person (citizen or not) of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."-14th Amendment

You forgot the very first line: All persons born

but that remains the case, as republicans fight and kick against supporting an infant, and even go as far as calling them "welfare Moms". You have your cake and eat it as well. Make sure you are pro life and carry to term and give birth, but once you give birth , if you don't have the means to care for yourself and your infant,

TOO BAD.


that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that
among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

People are endowed by their creator, even if creation is evolution.
You might want to comprehend this:

any person (citizen or not) of life,


there is no proof evolution exist or happened,,,

Do you think God created Adam and Eve, and who did Cain have sex with, Eve??


when did I say anything about god???

please try and stay on topic,,,
 
The intent of so-called late term abortions aka partial birth abortions has nothing to do with the mother's health. An induced birth would save the baby's life and be easier on the mother. The intent is to kill a full term baby within the constraints of the legal system. The reason they turn the baby around in the womb is because some legal genius determined that the baby is not technically born and does not have the right to life and liberty while a couple of inches of it's head remain in the womb. Abortion butchers are legally permitted to stab the baby in the back of the head and suck it's brain out without fear of legal recrimination.
 
Any significant societal decision to be made in any way regarding abortion should be made by an exclusively female base. Let's put women's choice to the test and let only women vote, in any process that is made by vote.
 
Everyone knows what happens in a late term abortion. The baby is rotated inside the mother's womb to cause a "breach birth" where the feet emerge first. It has to be painful and dangerous and there is no medical reason for it. When Clinton vetoed the late term abortion bill he paraded a lineup of women who claimed that their health was in jeopardy but that can't be true. You don't need to have a medical degree to determine that a "normal" birth would have saved the baby's life and would have been easier and less dangerous for the mother. How can anyone defend the late term abortion procedure from a medical standpoint?

No one has a late term abortion except for a women who really wants to birth a live infant. Also there are few of them.
13K a year doesnt sound like a few

Nearly 13,000 late-term abortions annually is a national disgrace
 
What is more painful to the being, birth as a clearly vital baby or aspiration at the stage of a tadpole?
 
In the closing days of WW2 Ike forced German villagers to walk through a Concentration Camp and crematorium when Germans refused to acknowledge the carnage. Maybe some day democrats will be forced to witness late term abortions.
 
Watching Schumer threaten SCOTUS judges if they rule against Roe VS Wade made me wonder about my own knowledge regarding my position... abortion OK only in case of health of money, rape or incest.
I am wrong!
Even in 1981, former Surgeon General of the United States Dr. C. Everett Koop said, “The fact of the matter is that abortion as a necessity to save the life of the mother is so rare as to be nonexistent.”

But as former abortionist Dr. Anthony Levatino has affirmed on the record:
During my time at Albany Medical Center I managed hundreds of such cases by “terminating” pregnancies to save mother’s lives. In all those cases, the number of unborn children that I had to deliberately kill was zero.
What Percentage of Abortions Are Medically Necessary?

But the biased MSM has never shared that with us.
Consequently since 1973 over 61,781,054 lives were destroyed.
Think about that...what baby among those 62 million could have discovered cures for cancer? Or made other fantastic contributions...all because a woman wasn't responsible enough.
Number of Abortions in US & Worldwide - Number of abortions since 1973

Just consider that: 46% of all abortions were performed on women who had one or more abortions before!
Think about it... There is an excuse for first timers... but 2nd, or 3 or more previous abortions?

Planned Parenthood Turns 99 Today: Has Killed 7 Million Babies in Abortions


One former Doctor who was an abortionist stated that in terms of an abortion.....giving birth is safer.....since you have to inject drugs into the woman to get her to dilate so you can get the pieces of the dead baby out.....
Watching Schumer threaten SCOTUS judges if they rule against Roe VS Wade made me wonder about my own knowledge regarding my position... abortion OK only in case of health of money, rape or incest.
I am wrong!
Even in 1981, former Surgeon General of the United States Dr. C. Everett Koop said, “The fact of the matter is that abortion as a necessity to save the life of the mother is so rare as to be nonexistent.”

But as former abortionist Dr. Anthony Levatino has affirmed on the record:
During my time at Albany Medical Center I managed hundreds of such cases by “terminating” pregnancies to save mother’s lives. In all those cases, the number of unborn children that I had to deliberately kill was zero.
What Percentage of Abortions Are Medically Necessary?

But the biased MSM has never shared that with us.
Consequently since 1973 over 61,781,054 lives were destroyed.
Think about that...what baby among those 62 million could have discovered cures for cancer? Or made other fantastic contributions...all because a woman wasn't responsible enough.
Number of Abortions in US & Worldwide - Number of abortions since 1973

Just consider that: 46% of all abortions were performed on women who had one or more abortions before!
Think about it... There is an excuse for first timers... but 2nd, or 3 or more previous abortions?

Planned Parenthood Turns 99 Today: Has Killed 7 Million Babies in Abortions


One former Doctor who was an abortionist stated that in terms of an abortion.....giving birth is safer.....since you have to inject drugs into the woman to get her to dilate so you can get the pieces of the dead baby out.....

That is total bullshit, which is why you can’t provide a substantive citation to support that assertion. Abortion is far safer for women medically than the much, much higher risks of serious complications and death that full term pregnancy and childbirth pose.


The facts are you are RIGHT!
In the one recent comparative study of pregnancy morbidity in the United States, pregnancy-related complications were more common with childbirth than with abortion.

CONCLUSION:
Legal induced abortion is markedly safer than childbirth. The risk of death associated with childbirth is approximately 14 times higher than that with abortion. Similarly, the overall morbidity associated with childbirth exceeds that with abortion.
The comparative safety of legal induced abortion and childbirth in the United States. - PubMed - NCBI

And I don't disagree with the facts.

This doesn't alter the reality that nearly half of all abortions were done on women who stupidly got pregnant AGAIN after having an abortion!
These dumb ass women who KNOWING the consequences of killing a human, continued their irresponsible behavior.
These women should be sterilized! You have one abortion...I understand... but to ignore the reality that if you were pregnant once and had an abortion,
shouldn't that be a warning sign? Stupid women that have multiple abortions should be sterilized.


The average likelihood that an abortion was a “first time” abortion (performed on a woman who had not had a prior induced termination) is 53.92%.
This means that (i) 46.08% of all abortions were performed on woman who had a previous procedure,
and (ii) the average likelihood that a woman would have a first time abortion was 0.945%.
The average likelihood that a woman had 1 prior abortion was 25.78%.
This means that a woman who received 1 prior abortion had a 47.8% chance of having a second abortion.
The average likelihood that a woman had 2 prior abortions was 11.03%.
This means that a woman who received 2 prior abortions had a 42% chance of having a third abortion.
The average likelihood that a woman had 3+ prior abortions was 7.4%.
This means that a woman who received 3+ prior abortions had a 67% chance of having additional abortions.

US Abortion Statistics: An Honest Analysis | National Economics Editorial

I mind my own business and you should do the same. The republican's are taking charge to outlaw abortions, which will lead to back street abortions for the poorer people, while the rich have health ins and go in under the guise of a D & C and get abortions.

You wrote "I mind my own business and you should do the same" and then you make your totally subjective comment...you should mind your own business!
 
Watching Schumer threaten SCOTUS judges if they rule against Roe VS Wade made me wonder about my own knowledge regarding my position... abortion OK only in case of health of money, rape or incest.
I am wrong!
Even in 1981, former Surgeon General of the United States Dr. C. Everett Koop said, “The fact of the matter is that abortion as a necessity to save the life of the mother is so rare as to be nonexistent.”

But as former abortionist Dr. Anthony Levatino has affirmed on the record:
During my time at Albany Medical Center I managed hundreds of such cases by “terminating” pregnancies to save mother’s lives. In all those cases, the number of unborn children that I had to deliberately kill was zero.
What Percentage of Abortions Are Medically Necessary?

But the biased MSM has never shared that with us.
Consequently since 1973 over 61,781,054 lives were destroyed.
Think about that...what baby among those 62 million could have discovered cures for cancer? Or made other fantastic contributions...all because a woman wasn't responsible enough.
Number of Abortions in US & Worldwide - Number of abortions since 1973

Just consider that: 46% of all abortions were performed on women who had one or more abortions before!
Think about it... There is an excuse for first timers... but 2nd, or 3 or more previous abortions?

Planned Parenthood Turns 99 Today: Has Killed 7 Million Babies in Abortions


One former Doctor who was an abortionist stated that in terms of an abortion.....giving birth is safer.....since you have to inject drugs into the woman to get her to dilate so you can get the pieces of the dead baby out.....
Watching Schumer threaten SCOTUS judges if they rule against Roe VS Wade made me wonder about my own knowledge regarding my position... abortion OK only in case of health of money, rape or incest.
I am wrong!
Even in 1981, former Surgeon General of the United States Dr. C. Everett Koop said, “The fact of the matter is that abortion as a necessity to save the life of the mother is so rare as to be nonexistent.”

But as former abortionist Dr. Anthony Levatino has affirmed on the record:
During my time at Albany Medical Center I managed hundreds of such cases by “terminating” pregnancies to save mother’s lives. In all those cases, the number of unborn children that I had to deliberately kill was zero.
What Percentage of Abortions Are Medically Necessary?

But the biased MSM has never shared that with us.
Consequently since 1973 over 61,781,054 lives were destroyed.
Think about that...what baby among those 62 million could have discovered cures for cancer? Or made other fantastic contributions...all because a woman wasn't responsible enough.
Number of Abortions in US & Worldwide - Number of abortions since 1973

Just consider that: 46% of all abortions were performed on women who had one or more abortions before!
Think about it... There is an excuse for first timers... but 2nd, or 3 or more previous abortions?

Planned Parenthood Turns 99 Today: Has Killed 7 Million Babies in Abortions


One former Doctor who was an abortionist stated that in terms of an abortion.....giving birth is safer.....since you have to inject drugs into the woman to get her to dilate so you can get the pieces of the dead baby out.....

That is total bullshit, which is why you can’t provide a substantive citation to support that assertion. Abortion is far safer for women medically than the much, much higher risks of serious complications and death that full term pregnancy and childbirth pose.


The facts are you are RIGHT!
In the one recent comparative study of pregnancy morbidity in the United States, pregnancy-related complications were more common with childbirth than with abortion.

CONCLUSION:
Legal induced abortion is markedly safer than childbirth. The risk of death associated with childbirth is approximately 14 times higher than that with abortion. Similarly, the overall morbidity associated with childbirth exceeds that with abortion.
The comparative safety of legal induced abortion and childbirth in the United States. - PubMed - NCBI

And I don't disagree with the facts.

This doesn't alter the reality that nearly half of all abortions were done on women who stupidly got pregnant AGAIN after having an abortion!
These dumb ass women who KNOWING the consequences of killing a human, continued their irresponsible behavior.
These women should be sterilized! You have one abortion...I understand... but to ignore the reality that if you were pregnant once and had an abortion,
shouldn't that be a warning sign? Stupid women that have multiple abortions should be sterilized.


The average likelihood that an abortion was a “first time” abortion (performed on a woman who had not had a prior induced termination) is 53.92%.
This means that (i) 46.08% of all abortions were performed on woman who had a previous procedure,
and (ii) the average likelihood that a woman would have a first time abortion was 0.945%.
The average likelihood that a woman had 1 prior abortion was 25.78%.
This means that a woman who received 1 prior abortion had a 47.8% chance of having a second abortion.
The average likelihood that a woman had 2 prior abortions was 11.03%.
This means that a woman who received 2 prior abortions had a 42% chance of having a third abortion.
The average likelihood that a woman had 3+ prior abortions was 7.4%.
This means that a woman who received 3+ prior abortions had a 67% chance of having additional abortions.

US Abortion Statistics: An Honest Analysis | National Economics Editorial

I mind my own business and you should do the same. The republican's are taking charge to outlaw abortions, which will lead to back street abortions for the poorer people, while the rich have health ins and go in under the guise of a D & C and get abortions.

You wrote "I mind my own business and you should do the same" and then you make your totally subjective comment...you should mind your own business!
Democrats would be rioting in the streets if the ASPCA treated puppies like they treat unborn humans. The craziness on the left is evident when a U.S. senator threatens specific (life term) Supreme Court Justices with bodily harm and/or political reprisal in order to keep the abortion industry working at full volume.
 
Any significant societal decision to be made in any way regarding abortion should be made by an exclusively female base. Let's put women's choice to the test and let only women vote, in any process that is made by vote.

Half of the innocent victims of abortion are male. Why should only women be allowed a say in whether it's OK to murder them in cold blood?

It is madness that there is any controversy. It is an objective fact that abortion is the killing of an innocent human being. This is not something that should ever be allowed in any sane society, ever, except under extreme circumstance, comparable to those under which homicide is otherwise justifiable.
 
You forgot the very first line: All persons born

but that remains the case, as republicans fight and kick against supporting an infant, and even go as far as calling them "welfare Moms". You have your cake and eat it as well. Make sure you are pro life and carry to term and give birth, but once you give birth , if you don't have the means to care for yourself and your infant,

TOO BAD.


that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that
among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

People are endowed by their creator, even if creation is evolution.
You might want to comprehend this:

any person (citizen or not) of life,


there is no proof evolution exist or happened,,,

Do you think God created Adam and Eve, and who did Cain have sex with, Eve??


when did I say anything about god???

please try and stay on topic,,,

So answer me, who do you mean?
that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that
among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
 
I don't know why people thinks its their business if one has an abortion. Have you not better things to think about that whether females you don't even know have an abortion.

The republicans are trying to ban abortions as they are suppressing voters. Its your given right to vote, if you are a citizen, yet the republicans are even interfering in that.
 
Last edited:
I don't know why people thinks its their business if one has an abortion. Have you not better things to think about that whether females you don't even know have an abortion.

The republicans are trying to ban abortions as they are suppressing voters. Its your given right to vote, if you are a citizen, yet the republicans are even interfering in that.
More awkward English from another foreign poster?
 
I don't know why people thinks its their business if one has an abortion. Have you not better things to think about that whether females you don't even know have an abortion.

The republicans are trying to ban abortions as they are suppressing voters. Its your given right to vote, if you are a citizen, yet the republicans are even interfering in that.
More awkward English from another foreign poster?

You republicans are involved in every aspect of life, from suppression of votes to taking away healthcare, to banning abortion.

You comprehension is lacking, that is the issue Whitehall.
 

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