Idaho toddler shoots mother dead in Walmart store.

[rdean]

“She was not the least bit irresponsible,” he said.

Hmm, let's see. Putting a loaded gun with the safety off where a two year old could causally reach for it and shoot you? And they call that an "accident". Well, Republicans have said they want every one to have a gun. Imagine how it will be once all the teachers are armed. Guess they will have to keep the guns loaded and sitting on the desk to be really effective.

Accident is the wrong word. More like wrongful death due to negligence. If the child had shot someone other than the guilty party, I'm pretty sure we'd be looking at homicide charges against the mother.

no, this was an accidental death , that's how it will be ruled, and I doubt the mother would have faced charges if someone else had been shot and killed either. It would be VERY difficult to prove that she committed any reckless actions which led to the shooting.

If true, IMO, that's wrong. I'd be good with a law covering child safety regulations regarding guns. For example, either the purse or the gun in the purse should have had a child proof safety device. Thus the absence would make it obvious that she was being reckless in not having said regulated device.

I'd be good with such laws as well. And I wholeheartedly agree with those who state that there are people carrying guns who have no business carrying guns.

According to Republicans, carrying guns is a "fundamental right".

Louisiana law floods courts with pro-gun cases

Armed with the new amendment, attorneys can now challenge the constitutionality of lesser laws – like concealed weapons statutes – making them more favorable to gun owners – including felons, said Laura Cutilletta, senior staff attorney at the San Francisco-based Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence.

 

[Brain357]

And we continue to claim, that there is no problem with guns in our country. The US has an estimated 283 million guns in civilian hands. And more than 30,000 people are killed by firearms each year in this country.

You mentioned civilian arms then cited what figures for deaths? Did you include suicides, and cops and justified homicides? Your side doesn't think, you feel.

And the important question is how many lives would be saved without guns? Lack of gun will not stop a suicidal person. A criminal might just use a knife instead. Accidental deaths should be effected...

 

[Iceweasel]

Ignore the stats if you want. They do however show you are not safer. I'm sure the woman shot by her 2 year old thought the same way as you.

The stats say if I drive a car my chances of getting in a car accident are higher, yet, I drive around. That's just how I roll.

 

[Iceweasel]

And the important question is how many lives would be saved without guns? Lack of gun will not stop a suicidal person. A criminal might just use a knife instead. Accidental deaths should be effected...

I am more concerned about my life than improving someone's stats.

 

[2aguy]

Gun owners are way more dangerous to themselves and innocents than criminals. Over 600 people shot and killed in accidents, while only 230 criminals are killed in defense.

More people get killed on the road and no body gets saved. Guns have the upper hand on those stats, assuming it's true but accuracy isn't your goal.

Yes....the anti gunners can't understand the difference between 1.6 million crimes stopped and lives saved vs 6-700 gun accidents...

There is something about guns that just drives them nuts....er....nuttier.....

Is there something you can't understand about over 600 accidental killings vs only 230 criminals killed? That's a pretty bad ratio for gun owners.

As I have proven several times and ways the 1.6 million is completely inaccurate. It is much more like 100k. And given the tiny percent of overall crime that murder is there really aren't that many lives saved.

Nuts is thinking you need a gun in this country to go anywhere. Nuts is carrying a gun to protect yourself and getting shot dead by your two year old. Neither you or I have ever needed a gun for anything. Don't be so paranoid.

Brain.....how do you know what the actual number is......there are professionals in the field, who, over 40 years, with over 19 different studies in this particular area of study, from both private and government researchers....who have come up with these numbers....and several if not more began or still are anti gun....for example, Dr. Kleck was anti gun...the clinton justice dept. that did the study in reaction to Klecks...in 1995 found 1.5 milllion defenses, obama commissioned the his CDC to do a study in 2013, spending 10 million dollars and they found the defensive gun uses at 500,000 to 3 million....and both clinton and obama are anti gun....

So Brain.....you have no idea.....I will go with 40 years of actual research into this particular area...defensive gun uses.....

As to 600 accidental gun deaths.....in a country of over 310 million people....come on.....deaths by drowning in pools are more than that......and there are over 310 million guns in the country.....that isn't a number to be ashamed of, that is a number that is amazing in how small it is....

As to law abiding citizens only killing 230 violent criminals .....that is another case for celebration.....on average 1.6 million defensive gun uses each year, and only 238 times a year do they have to actually shoot these monsters....that's all....again....that should be celebrated, not condemned....that means that these law abiding citizens with guns do not feel the need to shoot to kill in every violent attack, that they are not crazy....spraying an area at the first sign of attack, and that they are rational in their use of force....they threaten and drive off attackers, they hold them at gun point till the police arrive, and when they do shoot they don't always kill and they don't just walk up and finish off their attackers....

Again....that number should be celebrated not condemned........1.6 million people who are not raped, beaten, stabbed, or murdered or robbed....that is a good thing, not a bad thing.....

 

[2aguy]

Gun owners are way more dangerous to themselves and innocents than criminals. Over 600 people shot and killed in accidents, while only 230 criminals are killed in defense.

More people get killed on the road and no body gets saved. Guns have the upper hand on those stats, assuming it's true but accuracy isn't your goal.

Yes....the anti gunners can't understand the difference between 1.6 million crimes stopped and lives saved vs 6-700 gun accidents...

There is something about guns that just drives them nuts....er....nuttier.....

Is there something you can't understand about over 600 accidental killings vs only 230 criminals killed? That's a pretty bad ratio for gun owners.

As I have proven several times and ways the 1.6 million is completely inaccurate. It is much more like 100k. And given the tiny percent of overall crime that murder is there really aren't that many lives saved.

As has been pointed out by others about 5,000 times so far you are overlooking the fact that not all defence with a firearm ends with a death. And as I said cars don't help you defend yourself so I'll take your phoney odds any day and keep my guns. Crying about it changes nothing.

How do the police get to the scene of the crime....after the violent attack is over....? With a car....and they also have guns.......

 

[2aguy]

And we continue to claim, that there is no problem with guns in our country. The US has an estimated 283 million guns in civilian hands. And more than 30,000 people are killed by firearms each year in this country.

Only around 8-9,000 of those gun deaths are gun murders, the rest are suicides by people who actually wanted to die....just like in Japan where they commit suicide at twice our rate and they don't have access to guns......

 

[Brain357]

Gun owners are way more dangerous to themselves and innocents than criminals. Over 600 people shot and killed in accidents, while only 230 criminals are killed in defense.

More people get killed on the road and no body gets saved. Guns have the upper hand on those stats, assuming it's true but accuracy isn't your goal.

Yes....the anti gunners can't understand the difference between 1.6 million crimes stopped and lives saved vs 6-700 gun accidents...

There is something about guns that just drives them nuts....er....nuttier.....

Is there something you can't understand about over 600 accidental killings vs only 230 criminals killed? That's a pretty bad ratio for gun owners.

As I have proven several times and ways the 1.6 million is completely inaccurate. It is much more like 100k. And given the tiny percent of overall crime that murder is there really aren't that many lives saved.

Nuts is thinking you need a gun in this country to go anywhere. Nuts is carrying a gun to protect yourself and getting shot dead by your two year old. Neither you or I have ever needed a gun for anything. Don't be so paranoid.

Brain.....how do you know what the actual number is......there are professionals in the field, who, over 40 years, with over 19 different studies in this particular area of study, from both private and government researchers....who have come up with these numbers....and several if not more began or still are anti gun....for example, Dr. Kleck was anti gun...the clinton justice dept. that did the study in reaction to Klecks...in 1995 found 1.5 milllion defenses, obama commissioned the his CDC to do a study in 2013, spending 10 million dollars and they found the defensive gun uses at 500,000 to 3 million....and both clinton and obama are anti gun....

So Brain.....you have no idea.....I will go with 40 years of actual research into this particular area...defensive gun uses.....

As to 600 accidental gun deaths.....in a country of over 310 million people....come on.....deaths by drowning in pools are more than that......and there are over 310 million guns in the country.....that isn't a number to be ashamed of, that is a number that is amazing in how small it is....

As to law abiding citizens only killing 230 violent criminals .....that is another case for celebration.....on average 1.6 million defensive gun uses each year, and only 238 times a year do they have to actually shoot these monsters....that's all....again....that should be celebrated, not condemned....that means that these law abiding citizens with guns do not feel the need to shoot to kill in every violent attack, that they are not crazy....spraying an area at the first sign of attack, and that they are rational in their use of force....they threaten and drive off attackers, they hold them at gun point till the police arrive, and when they do shoot they don't always kill and they don't just walk up and finish off their attackers....

Again....that number should be celebrated not condemned........1.6 million people who are not raped, beaten, stabbed, or murdered or robbed....that is a good thing, not a bad thing.....

How can you say 1.6 million when one of your surveys say 500k to 3 million? Quite a broad range, not exactly accurate. If the surveys are so good why do they not all arrive at a very similar number? Why do only 50 or so make the news a year? They are often very exciting stories. So gun owners are so irresponsible they are 3x more likely to accidently shoot and kill someone than they are to actually kill a criminal? They take far more care in pointing a gun at a criminal than they do keeping the gun away from childen? There is a study that says about 100k defenses, you should start using it.

 

[Vandalshandle]

The event caused me to take a serious and sober reflection on the issue of gun nuts packing heat in crowded urban type environments. I am forced to admit that this story does not, in itself, cause me to be outraged. This story is a prime example of the Darwin principle in action. Woman packs loaded automatic in her purse, almost certainly with a bullet in the chamber. Leaves purse unattended with her 2 year old, who pulls out gun and shoots her dead in the middle of a crowded Walmart. The woman was a walking time bomb. Anyone this careless would also be stupid enough to reach for a plugged in hair dryer while in a full bathtub. I would only have been really outraged if the kid had killed himself or somebody else. As for what happened to the mother. Meh.

But what about the pot head that tokes on a pipe going down the freeway and gets distracted and kills a family in a minivan? Such a sober reflection should have you seriously considering stripping driving rights from anyone that smokes dope or just stay at home.

Stripping gun rights? Obviously, you have me confused with somebody else. I never said anything about stripping gun rights. You must be talking about all of those paranoids that the NRA keeps telling you are going to arrive in the middle of the night and grab your gun while you are asleep.

The liberal use of the phrase 'gun nuts' makes it clear who the real fear mongers are. Someone carries a gun so to you they're a gun nut. Stupid lib.

Well, then I must be masochistic, Ice, because I own five guns myself. I just don't feel a need to carry them around Walmart, locked and loaded, because I might get ambushed in the housewares department.

 

[Brain357]

The event caused me to take a serious and sober reflection on the issue of gun nuts packing heat in crowded urban type environments. I am forced to admit that this story does not, in itself, cause me to be outraged. This story is a prime example of the Darwin principle in action. Woman packs loaded automatic in her purse, almost certainly with a bullet in the chamber. Leaves purse unattended with her 2 year old, who pulls out gun and shoots her dead in the middle of a crowded Walmart. The woman was a walking time bomb. Anyone this careless would also be stupid enough to reach for a plugged in hair dryer while in a full bathtub. I would only have been really outraged if the kid had killed himself or somebody else. As for what happened to the mother. Meh.

But what about the pot head that tokes on a pipe going down the freeway and gets distracted and kills a family in a minivan? Such a sober reflection should have you seriously considering stripping driving rights from anyone that smokes dope or just stay at home.

Stripping gun rights? Obviously, you have me confused with somebody else. I never said anything about stripping gun rights. You must be talking about all of those paranoids that the NRA keeps telling you are going to arrive in the middle of the night and grab your gun while you are asleep.

The liberal use of the phrase 'gun nuts' makes it clear who the real fear mongers are. Someone carries a gun so to you they're a gun nut. Stupid lib.

Well, then I must be masochistic, Ice, because I own five guns myself. I just don't feel a need to carry them around Walmart, locked and loaded, because I might get ambushed in the housewares department.

Strangely I have gone my entire life not carrying and never needing one. My father lived and died never carrying or needing one. Based on crime stars if say you are pretty safe.

 

[BullKurtz]

Bitch had it coming !

I see Luddly gave you a "thanks" for this shit... what a venal cretin he/she is can't be disputed.

 

[2aguy]

Gun owners are way more dangerous to themselves and innocents than criminals. Over 600 people shot and killed in accidents, while only 230 criminals are killed in defense.

More people get killed on the road and no body gets saved. Guns have the upper hand on those stats, assuming it's true but accuracy isn't your goal.

Yes....the anti gunners can't understand the difference between 1.6 million crimes stopped and lives saved vs 6-700 gun accidents...

There is something about guns that just drives them nuts....er....nuttier.....

Is there something you can't understand about over 600 accidental killings vs only 230 criminals killed? That's a pretty bad ratio for gun owners.

As I have proven several times and ways the 1.6 million is completely inaccurate. It is much more like 100k. And given the tiny percent of overall crime that murder is there really aren't that many lives saved.

Nuts is thinking you need a gun in this country to go anywhere. Nuts is carrying a gun to protect yourself and getting shot dead by your two year old. Neither you or I have ever needed a gun for anything. Don't be so paranoid.

Brain.....how do you know what the actual number is......there are professionals in the field, who, over 40 years, with over 19 different studies in this particular area of study, from both private and government researchers....who have come up with these numbers....and several if not more began or still are anti gun....for example, Dr. Kleck was anti gun...the clinton justice dept. that did the study in reaction to Klecks...in 1995 found 1.5 milllion defenses, obama commissioned the his CDC to do a study in 2013, spending 10 million dollars and they found the defensive gun uses at 500,000 to 3 million....and both clinton and obama are anti gun....

So Brain.....you have no idea.....I will go with 40 years of actual research into this particular area...defensive gun uses.....

As to 600 accidental gun deaths.....in a country of over 310 million people....come on.....deaths by drowning in pools are more than that......and there are over 310 million guns in the country.....that isn't a number to be ashamed of, that is a number that is amazing in how small it is....

As to law abiding citizens only killing 230 violent criminals .....that is another case for celebration.....on average 1.6 million defensive gun uses each year, and only 238 times a year do they have to actually shoot these monsters....that's all....again....that should be celebrated, not condemned....that means that these law abiding citizens with guns do not feel the need to shoot to kill in every violent attack, that they are not crazy....spraying an area at the first sign of attack, and that they are rational in their use of force....they threaten and drive off attackers, they hold them at gun point till the police arrive, and when they do shoot they don't always kill and they don't just walk up and finish off their attackers....

Again....that number should be celebrated not condemned........1.6 million people who are not raped, beaten, stabbed, or murdered or robbed....that is a good thing, not a bad thing.....

How can you say 1.6 million when one of your surveys say 500k to 3 million? Quite a broad range, not exactly accurate. If the surveys are so good why do they not all arrive at a very similar number? Why do only 50 or so make the news a year? They are often very exciting stories. So gun owners are so irresponsible they are 3x more likely to accidently shoot and kill someone than they are to actually kill a criminal? They take far more care in pointing a gun at a criminal than they do keeping the gun away from childen? There is a study that says about 100k defenses, you should start using it.

Keep in mind.....the survey that says that....is a democrat, anti gun survey from obama and his CDC, done in 2013 as he was trying to initiate more gun control....in conjunction with selling guns to Mexican drug cartels......so I wouldn't necessarily include it...but to be fair and to include all the research, I will also include democrat anti gun research....that is very poorly done........

I would much rather post Dr. Kleck's research, which puts the number at about 2.5 million, since that study is very well done....

 

[2aguy]

The event caused me to take a serious and sober reflection on the issue of gun nuts packing heat in crowded urban type environments. I am forced to admit that this story does not, in itself, cause me to be outraged. This story is a prime example of the Darwin principle in action. Woman packs loaded automatic in her purse, almost certainly with a bullet in the chamber. Leaves purse unattended with her 2 year old, who pulls out gun and shoots her dead in the middle of a crowded Walmart. The woman was a walking time bomb. Anyone this careless would also be stupid enough to reach for a plugged in hair dryer while in a full bathtub. I would only have been really outraged if the kid had killed himself or somebody else. As for what happened to the mother. Meh.

But what about the pot head that tokes on a pipe going down the freeway and gets distracted and kills a family in a minivan? Such a sober reflection should have you seriously considering stripping driving rights from anyone that smokes dope or just stay at home.

Stripping gun rights? Obviously, you have me confused with somebody else. I never said anything about stripping gun rights. You must be talking about all of those paranoids that the NRA keeps telling you are going to arrive in the middle of the night and grab your gun while you are asleep.

The liberal use of the phrase 'gun nuts' makes it clear who the real fear mongers are. Someone carries a gun so to you they're a gun nut. Stupid lib.

Well, then I must be masochistic, Ice, because I own five guns myself. I just don't feel a need to carry them around Walmart, locked and loaded, because I might get ambushed in the housewares department.

Strangely I have gone my entire life not carrying and never needing one. My father lived and died never carrying or needing one. Based on crime stars if say you are pretty safe.

Brain, Vandal....I know you have both been lucky. Neither one of you seems to have been the victim of a violent criminal assault....and it seems that no one in your family has either......good, I am glad.....it is nice that you have never had to face that situation....

But.......millions of other people are not as fortunate as you guys and your families....they have been violently attacked, raped, robbed, beaten, stabbed, shot, and murdered.....and in a lot of cases they did what you guys did and did not carry a gun.......and many of them suffered horribly at the hands of monsters, and their families suffered because of this as well......

You cannot tell on any given day wether or not a monster is going to walk into your life......and each day you make a decision as to how you want to address that threat and the odds that this day.....will be the day.....you have chosen to not carry a weapon ever......but some people have simply decided differently than you....and yet you want them to face any attack that may happen empty handed......because you personally have never needed a gun......

that is wrong headed thinking.......

And what is it with you guys and killing people....Joe keeps fantasizing about killing minorities, and you want more criminals to be killed by their victims........

You are upset that 6-700 people a year die in accidental gun deaths......again, in a country of over 310 million people.....not even close to even a quater of 1%? and bemoan the fact that only 238 criminals are killed by their victims....which again, simply shows that law abiding gun owners show incredible restraint and don't just shoot whenever they feel threatened or come under attack....

That is something to applaud, not condemn......

 

[Skull Pilot]

You missed the point. People with guns have cars too. You are one stupid fuck.

You seem to miss the point. Comparing the two is ridiculous.

You would need a functioning brain to understand the point. The fact that someone screws up with a gun doesn't change anything for me and I matter to me much more than you matter to me. Have a kid walk you through that until you understand it.

Well more people screw up with a gun than shoot and kill criminals. If you are ok with that fine, but it doesn't say much for guns being anti crime. You are also far more likely to be shot if you have a gun.
Carrying a gun increases risk of getting shot and killed - science-in-society - 06 October 2009 - New Scientist

Now if you are aware of those things and still choose to carry, then good luck to you. Lets just keep the debate honest and not make it sound like carrying a gun makes you safer. I wont claim that driving a car makes you safer, but it sure has a lot of benefits.

OK now please post the numbers that prove there are more accidental gun deaths than there are guns used in self defense.

Now don't forget to count all the times a gun is used and not fired

Why would I compare deaths to defenses? Murder is a very small percent of crime, so the vast majority of defenses aren't defending murder. Also a large number of defenses probably didn't require a gun.

Hey YOU said that there are more accidental gun deaths than instances of guns used in self defense.

So fucking prove it.

 

[Pogo]

Bitch had it coming !

I see Luddly gave you a "thanks" for this shit... what a venal cretin he/she is can't be disputed.

Dat's OK, only the intelligent grok irony. You just say with... whatever that is you got.

 

[Vandalshandle]

But what about the pot head that tokes on a pipe going down the freeway and gets distracted and kills a family in a minivan? Such a sober reflection should have you seriously considering stripping driving rights from anyone that smokes dope or just stay at home.

Stripping gun rights? Obviously, you have me confused with somebody else. I never said anything about stripping gun rights. You must be talking about all of those paranoids that the NRA keeps telling you are going to arrive in the middle of the night and grab your gun while you are asleep.

The liberal use of the phrase 'gun nuts' makes it clear who the real fear mongers are. Someone carries a gun so to you they're a gun nut. Stupid lib.

Well, then I must be masochistic, Ice, because I own five guns myself. I just don't feel a need to carry them around Walmart, locked and loaded, because I might get ambushed in the housewares department.

Strangely I have gone my entire life not carrying and never needing one. My father lived and died never carrying or needing one. Based on crime stars if say you are pretty safe.

Brain, Vandal....I know you have both been lucky. Neither one of you seems to have been the victim of a violent criminal assault....and it seems that no one in your family has either......good, I am glad.....it is nice that you have never had to face that situation....

But.......millions of other people are not as fortunate as you guys and your families....they have been violently attacked, raped, robbed, beaten, stabbed, shot, and murdered.....and in a lot of cases they did what you guys did and did not carry a gun.......and many of them suffered horribly at the hands of monsters, and their families suffered because of this as well......

You cannot tell on any given day wether or not a monster is going to walk into your life......and each day you make a decision as to how you want to address that threat and the odds that this day.....will be the day.....you have chosen to not carry a weapon ever......but some people have simply decided differently than you....and yet you want them to face any attack that may happen empty handed......because you personally have never needed a gun......

that is wrong headed thinking.......

And what is it with you guys and killing people....Joe keeps fantasizing about killing minorities, and you want more criminals to be killed by their victims........

You are upset that 6-700 people a year die in accidental gun deaths......again, in a country of over 310 million people.....not even close to even a quater of 1%? and bemoan the fact that only 238 criminals are killed by their victims....which again, simply shows that law abiding gun owners show incredible restraint and don't just shoot whenever they feel threatened or come under attack....

That is something to applaud, not condemn......

As a matter of fact, I was threatened with a handgun...by a family member. he had every intention of killing me, but was too drunk to load the gun. I know damned well that he was serious, because he used it to kill himself less than a month later. I just don't choose to go through life in terror and fear. Frankly, I feel sorry for those of you who do. It is more understandable for a woman who has been raped, but for a guy to feel like he can not leave his gun in his car when he goes in to Starbucks...well, pity is the best world that I can use.

 

[Brain357]

But what about the pot head that tokes on a pipe going down the freeway and gets distracted and kills a family in a minivan? Such a sober reflection should have you seriously considering stripping driving rights from anyone that smokes dope or just stay at home.

Stripping gun rights? Obviously, you have me confused with somebody else. I never said anything about stripping gun rights. You must be talking about all of those paranoids that the NRA keeps telling you are going to arrive in the middle of the night and grab your gun while you are asleep.

The liberal use of the phrase 'gun nuts' makes it clear who the real fear mongers are. Someone carries a gun so to you they're a gun nut. Stupid lib.

Well, then I must be masochistic, Ice, because I own five guns myself. I just don't feel a need to carry them around Walmart, locked and loaded, because I might get ambushed in the housewares department.

Strangely I have gone my entire life not carrying and never needing one. My father lived and died never carrying or needing one. Based on crime stars if say you are pretty safe.

Brain, Vandal....I know you have both been lucky. Neither one of you seems to have been the victim of a violent criminal assault....and it seems that no one in your family has either......good, I am glad.....it is nice that you have never had to face that situation....

But.......millions of other people are not as fortunate as you guys and your families....they have been violently attacked, raped, robbed, beaten, stabbed, shot, and murdered.....and in a lot of cases they did what you guys did and did not carry a gun.......and many of them suffered horribly at the hands of monsters, and their families suffered because of this as well......

You cannot tell on any given day wether or not a monster is going to walk into your life......and each day you make a decision as to how you want to address that threat and the odds that this day.....will be the day.....you have chosen to not carry a weapon ever......but some people have simply decided differently than you....and yet you want them to face any attack that may happen empty handed......because you personally have never needed a gun......

that is wrong headed thinking.......

And what is it with you guys and killing people....Joe keeps fantasizing about killing minorities, and you want more criminals to be killed by their victims........

You are upset that 6-700 people a year die in accidental gun deaths......again, in a country of over 310 million people.....not even close to even a quater of 1%? and bemoan the fact that only 238 criminals are killed by their victims....which again, simply shows that law abiding gun owners show incredible restraint and don't just shoot whenever they feel threatened or come under attack....

That is something to applaud, not condemn......

The fact there are only 238 criminals killed in defense each year proves your claim of millions of defenses is false. I am not at all upset by that number. It is interesting they show more responsibility when it comes to shooting criminals than innocent people however.

Stats seem to show it is safer not to carry a gun than it is to. Last I checked you have not needed to defend yourself either. A gun isn't the answer to everything. Don't be so paranoid. It was certainly safer for this woman to not carry.

 

[Brain357]

You seem to miss the point. Comparing the two is ridiculous.

You would need a functioning brain to understand the point. The fact that someone screws up with a gun doesn't change anything for me and I matter to me much more than you matter to me. Have a kid walk you through that until you understand it.

Well more people screw up with a gun than shoot and kill criminals. If you are ok with that fine, but it doesn't say much for guns being anti crime. You are also far more likely to be shot if you have a gun.
Carrying a gun increases risk of getting shot and killed - science-in-society - 06 October 2009 - New Scientist

Now if you are aware of those things and still choose to carry, then good luck to you. Lets just keep the debate honest and not make it sound like carrying a gun makes you safer. I wont claim that driving a car makes you safer, but it sure has a lot of benefits.

OK now please post the numbers that prove there are more accidental gun deaths than there are guns used in self defense.

Now don't forget to count all the times a gun is used and not fired

Why would I compare deaths to defenses? Murder is a very small percent of crime, so the vast majority of defenses aren't defending murder. Also a large number of defenses probably didn't require a gun.

Hey YOU said that there are more accidental gun deaths than instances of guns used in self defense.

So fucking prove it.

No I said there are more people accidently shot and killed than there are criminals shot and killed in defense.

 

[2aguy]

The fact there are only 238 criminals killed in defense each year proves your claim of millions of defenses is false.

How do you claim that Brain.....I would like to know your methodology.....

And there are two parts to the reason why it is so low....1) law abiding citizens don't want to kill people....they will threaten, and they will only shoot when absolutely necessary....and most of the time they simply hold the criminal for police, or injure them without killing them.....the study you cite, the NCVS only counts deaths.....not injuries or captures, or scaring off criminals..

2) the majority of criminals do not want to be shot....because one, they might die, and 2 if they are just injured it increases the likely hood they may die later, or get captured as they seek medical attention, or are identified by their gun shot wound.....that is why most run, rather than fight....and since they can't shoot at gun ranges...they are lousy shots, and get outshot by good people....

Applaud the number Brain....the restraint shown by law abiding citizens is something that is congratulate, not complain about.....

 

[Iceweasel]

As a matter of fact, I was threatened with a handgun...by a family member. he had every intention of killing me, but was too drunk to load the gun. I know damned well that he was serious, because he used it to kill himself less than a month later. I just don't choose to go through life in terror and fear. Frankly, I feel sorry for those of you who do. It is more understandable for a woman who has been raped, but for a guy to feel like he can not leave his gun in his car when he goes in to Starbucks...well, pity is the best world that I can use.

I pity people that think they know everyone else's mind. It really is a special kind of stupid.