Idaho toddler shoots mother dead in Walmart store.

[Iceweasel]

The event caused me to take a serious and sober reflection on the issue of gun nuts packing heat in crowded urban type environments. I am forced to admit that this story does not, in itself, cause me to be outraged. This story is a prime example of the Darwin principle in action. Woman packs loaded automatic in her purse, almost certainly with a bullet in the chamber. Leaves purse unattended with her 2 year old, who pulls out gun and shoots her dead in the middle of a crowded Walmart. The woman was a walking time bomb. Anyone this careless would also be stupid enough to reach for a plugged in hair dryer while in a full bathtub. I would only have been really outraged if the kid had killed himself or somebody else. As for what happened to the mother. Meh.

But what about the pot head that tokes on a pipe going down the freeway and gets distracted and kills a family in a minivan? Such a sober reflection should have you seriously considering stripping driving rights from anyone that smokes dope or just stay at home.

Stripping gun rights? Obviously, you have me confused with somebody else. I never said anything about stripping gun rights. You must be talking about all of those paranoids that the NRA keeps telling you are going to arrive in the middle of the night and grab your gun while you are asleep.

The liberal use of the phrase 'gun nuts' makes it clear who the real fear mongers are. Someone carries a gun so to you they're a gun nut. Stupid lib.

 

[Iceweasel]

Gun owners are way more dangerous to themselves and innocents than criminals. Over 600 people shot and killed in accidents, while only 230 criminals are killed in defense.

More people get killed on the road and no body gets saved. Guns have the upper hand on those stats, assuming it's true but accuracy isn't your goal.

 

[2aguy]

Gun owners are way more dangerous to themselves and innocents than criminals. Over 600 people shot and killed in accidents, while only 230 criminals are killed in defense.

More people get killed on the road and no body gets saved. Guns have the upper hand on those stats, assuming it's true but accuracy isn't your goal.

Yes....the anti gunners can't understand the difference between 1.6 million crimes stopped and lives saved vs 6-700 gun accidents...

There is something about guns that just drives them nuts....er....nuttier.....

 

[Brain357]

Gun owners are way more dangerous to themselves and innocents than criminals. Over 600 people shot and killed in accidents, while only 230 criminals are killed in defense.

More people get killed on the road and no body gets saved. Guns have the upper hand on those stats, assuming it's true but accuracy isn't your goal.

Murder is a very tiny percent of all crime. Guns do not have the upper hand.

Cars are far more useful than guns. Like I already stated cars are used daily by almost everyone in the country. Most people will never need a gun for anything in their entire lifetime.

 

[Brain357]

Gun owners are way more dangerous to themselves and innocents than criminals. Over 600 people shot and killed in accidents, while only 230 criminals are killed in defense.

More people get killed on the road and no body gets saved. Guns have the upper hand on those stats, assuming it's true but accuracy isn't your goal.

Yes....the anti gunners can't understand the difference between 1.6 million crimes stopped and lives saved vs 6-700 gun accidents...

There is something about guns that just drives them nuts....er....nuttier.....

Is there something you can't understand about over 600 accidental killings vs only 230 criminals killed? That's a pretty bad ratio for gun owners.

As I have proven several times and ways the 1.6 million is completely inaccurate. It is much more like 100k. And given the tiny percent of overall crime that murder is there really aren't that many lives saved.

Nuts is thinking you need a gun in this country to go anywhere. Nuts is carrying a gun to protect yourself and getting shot dead by your two year old. Neither you or I have ever needed a gun for anything. Don't be so paranoid.

 

[Iceweasel]

Gun owners are way more dangerous to themselves and innocents than criminals. Over 600 people shot and killed in accidents, while only 230 criminals are killed in defense.

More people get killed on the road and no body gets saved. Guns have the upper hand on those stats, assuming it's true but accuracy isn't your goal.

Yes....the anti gunners can't understand the difference between 1.6 million crimes stopped and lives saved vs 6-700 gun accidents...

There is something about guns that just drives them nuts....er....nuttier.....

Is there something you can't understand about over 600 accidental killings vs only 230 criminals killed? That's a pretty bad ratio for gun owners.

As I have proven several times and ways the 1.6 million is completely inaccurate. It is much more like 100k. And given the tiny percent of overall crime that murder is there really aren't that many lives saved.

As has been pointed out by others about 5,000 times so far you are overlooking the fact that not all defence with a firearm ends with a death. And as I said cars don't help you defend yourself so I'll take your phoney odds any day and keep my guns. Crying about it changes nothing.

 

[Brain357]

40,000 people die in car accidents each year

small price we have to pay for the privilege of driving

Of course unlike guns, cars are very important to daily life. Most people use them daily while most will never need a gun for anything.

but 1.6 million people a year do need guns to stop violent criminal attacks and save live....far more times than guns are used to murder people....and far more times than people are killed in accidents.....

Those 1.6 million people would disagree with your post...their lives depended on having that gun.....

That number is not even remotely accurate. Only 230 criminals shot and killed a year. There is no way there are anywhere near 1.6 million defenses.

The studies....and there are over 19 of them, over 40 years, conducted by different researchers, both private and government, give that number as the average....over 19 studies...so once you have conducted your own study, you can add that to the research that has already been done on the issue.......which shows the average number to be 1.6 million times a year that guns are used to stop violent criminal attack and save lives.....and that is the average.....it may be much higher....

They are just surveys. You would have to be very foolish to think people pull guns in defense over a million times and only 230 criminals are shot and killed each year. More people are accidently shot and killed each year when there is no threat. And then of course only like maybe 50 of these defenses are reported a year? It should be obvious to everyone those numbers are wrong.

 

[Iceweasel]

Gun owners are way more dangerous to themselves and innocents than criminals. Over 600 people shot and killed in accidents, while only 230 criminals are killed in defense.

More people get killed on the road and no body gets saved. Guns have the upper hand on those stats, assuming it's true but accuracy isn't your goal.

Murder is a very tiny percent of all crime. Guns do not have the upper hand.

Cars are far more useful than guns. Like I already stated cars are used daily by almost everyone in the country. Most people will never need a gun for anything in their entire lifetime.

You missed the point. People with guns have cars too. You are one stupid fuck.

 

[Brain357]

Gun owners are way more dangerous to themselves and innocents than criminals. Over 600 people shot and killed in accidents, while only 230 criminals are killed in defense.

More people get killed on the road and no body gets saved. Guns have the upper hand on those stats, assuming it's true but accuracy isn't your goal.

Yes....the anti gunners can't understand the difference between 1.6 million crimes stopped and lives saved vs 6-700 gun accidents...

There is something about guns that just drives them nuts....er....nuttier.....

Is there something you can't understand about over 600 accidental killings vs only 230 criminals killed? That's a pretty bad ratio for gun owners.

As I have proven several times and ways the 1.6 million is completely inaccurate. It is much more like 100k. And given the tiny percent of overall crime that murder is there really aren't that many lives saved.

As has been pointed out by others about 5,000 times so far you are overlooking the fact that not all defence with a firearm ends with a death. And as I said cars don't help you defend yourself so I'll take your phoney odds any day and keep my guns. Crying about it changes nothing.

No I am not overlooking that at all. But I have read a lot of defenses and many do in fact end with a dead criminal. I've also posted a study that says about 30% end in the death of the criminal.

 

[Brain357]

Gun owners are way more dangerous to themselves and innocents than criminals. Over 600 people shot and killed in accidents, while only 230 criminals are killed in defense.

More people get killed on the road and no body gets saved. Guns have the upper hand on those stats, assuming it's true but accuracy isn't your goal.

Murder is a very tiny percent of all crime. Guns do not have the upper hand.

Cars are far more useful than guns. Like I already stated cars are used daily by almost everyone in the country. Most people will never need a gun for anything in their entire lifetime.

You missed the point. People with guns have cars too. You are one stupid fuck.

You seem to miss the point. Comparing the two is ridiculous.

 

[Iceweasel]

Gun owners are way more dangerous to themselves and innocents than criminals. Over 600 people shot and killed in accidents, while only 230 criminals are killed in defense.

More people get killed on the road and no body gets saved. Guns have the upper hand on those stats, assuming it's true but accuracy isn't your goal.

Murder is a very tiny percent of all crime. Guns do not have the upper hand.

Cars are far more useful than guns. Like I already stated cars are used daily by almost everyone in the country. Most people will never need a gun for anything in their entire lifetime.

You missed the point. People with guns have cars too. You are one stupid fuck.

You seem to miss the point. Comparing the two is ridiculous.

You would need a functioning brain to understand the point. The fact that someone screws up with a gun doesn't change anything for me and I matter to me much more than you matter to me. Have a kid walk you through that until you understand it.

 

[Brain357]

Gun owners are way more dangerous to themselves and innocents than criminals. Over 600 people shot and killed in accidents, while only 230 criminals are killed in defense.

More people get killed on the road and no body gets saved. Guns have the upper hand on those stats, assuming it's true but accuracy isn't your goal.

Murder is a very tiny percent of all crime. Guns do not have the upper hand.

Cars are far more useful than guns. Like I already stated cars are used daily by almost everyone in the country. Most people will never need a gun for anything in their entire lifetime.

You missed the point. People with guns have cars too. You are one stupid fuck.

You seem to miss the point. Comparing the two is ridiculous.

You would need a functioning brain to understand the point. The fact that someone screws up with a gun doesn't change anything for me and I matter to me much more than you matter to me. Have a kid walk you through that until you understand it.

Well more people screw up with a gun than shoot and kill criminals. If you are ok with that fine, but it doesn't say much for guns being anti crime. You are also far more likely to be shot if you have a gun.
Carrying a gun increases risk of getting shot and killed - science-in-society - 06 October 2009 - New Scientist

Now if you are aware of those things and still choose to carry, then good luck to you. Lets just keep the debate honest and not make it sound like carrying a gun makes you safer. I wont claim that driving a car makes you safer, but it sure has a lot of benefits.

 

[Skull Pilot]

More people get killed on the road and no body gets saved. Guns have the upper hand on those stats, assuming it's true but accuracy isn't your goal.

Murder is a very tiny percent of all crime. Guns do not have the upper hand.

Cars are far more useful than guns. Like I already stated cars are used daily by almost everyone in the country. Most people will never need a gun for anything in their entire lifetime.

You missed the point. People with guns have cars too. You are one stupid fuck.

You seem to miss the point. Comparing the two is ridiculous.

You would need a functioning brain to understand the point. The fact that someone screws up with a gun doesn't change anything for me and I matter to me much more than you matter to me. Have a kid walk you through that until you understand it.

Well more people screw up with a gun than shoot and kill criminals. If you are ok with that fine, but it doesn't say much for guns being anti crime. You are also far more likely to be shot if you have a gun.
Carrying a gun increases risk of getting shot and killed - science-in-society - 06 October 2009 - New Scientist

Now if you are aware of those things and still choose to carry, then good luck to you. Lets just keep the debate honest and not make it sound like carrying a gun makes you safer. I wont claim that driving a car makes you safer, but it sure has a lot of benefits.

OK now please post the numbers that prove there are more accidental gun deaths than there are guns used in self defense.

Now don't forget to count all the times a gun is used and not fired

 

[Brain357]

Murder is a very tiny percent of all crime. Guns do not have the upper hand.

Cars are far more useful than guns. Like I already stated cars are used daily by almost everyone in the country. Most people will never need a gun for anything in their entire lifetime.

You missed the point. People with guns have cars too. You are one stupid fuck.

You seem to miss the point. Comparing the two is ridiculous.

You would need a functioning brain to understand the point. The fact that someone screws up with a gun doesn't change anything for me and I matter to me much more than you matter to me. Have a kid walk you through that until you understand it.

Well more people screw up with a gun than shoot and kill criminals. If you are ok with that fine, but it doesn't say much for guns being anti crime. You are also far more likely to be shot if you have a gun.
Carrying a gun increases risk of getting shot and killed - science-in-society - 06 October 2009 - New Scientist

Now if you are aware of those things and still choose to carry, then good luck to you. Lets just keep the debate honest and not make it sound like carrying a gun makes you safer. I wont claim that driving a car makes you safer, but it sure has a lot of benefits.

OK now please post the numbers that prove there are more accidental gun deaths than there are guns used in self defense.

Now don't forget to count all the times a gun is used and not fired

Why would I compare deaths to defenses? Murder is a very small percent of crime, so the vast majority of defenses aren't defending murder. Also a large number of defenses probably didn't require a gun.

 

[Mr. H.]

Idaho, of all states, should at least ban potato guns.

 

[PGreen]

And we continue to claim, that there is no problem with guns in our country. The US has an estimated 283 million guns in civilian hands. And more than 30,000 people are killed by firearms each year in this country.

 

[Iceweasel]

[Well more people screw up with a gun than shoot and kill criminals. If you are ok with that fine, but it doesn't say much for guns being anti crime. You are also far more likely to be shot if you have a gun.
Carrying a gun increases risk of getting shot and killed - science-in-society - 06 October 2009 - New Scientist

Now if you are aware of those things and still choose to carry, then good luck to you. Lets just keep the debate honest and not make it sound like carrying a gun makes you safer. I wont claim that driving a car makes you safer, but it sure has a lot of benefits.

An op-ed from 2009 in New Scientist doesn't do it for me, sorry. But yes, having a gun increases the likelyhood of a gun mishap just like having a car increases your odds of having a car accident.

Yes, my guns make me safer, in and out of the home. What some guy on the internet thinks doesn't change it. Not everyone is like you and prefer to defend themselves.

 

[Iceweasel]

And we continue to claim, that there is no problem with guns in our country. The US has an estimated 283 million guns in civilian hands. And more than 30,000 people are killed by firearms each year in this country.

You mentioned civilian arms then cited what figures for deaths? Did you include suicides, and cops and justified homicides? Your side doesn't think, you feel.

 

[Brain357]

[Well more people screw up with a gun than shoot and kill criminals. If you are ok with that fine, but it doesn't say much for guns being anti crime. You are also far more likely to be shot if you have a gun.
Carrying a gun increases risk of getting shot and killed - science-in-society - 06 October 2009 - New Scientist

Now if you are aware of those things and still choose to carry, then good luck to you. Lets just keep the debate honest and not make it sound like carrying a gun makes you safer. I wont claim that driving a car makes you safer, but it sure has a lot of benefits.

An op-ed from 2009 in New Scientist doesn't do it for me, sorry. But yes, having a gun increases the likelyhood of a gun mishap just like having a car increases your odds of having a car accident.

Yes, my guns make me safer, in and out of the home. What some guy on the internet thinks doesn't change it. Not everyone is like you and prefer to defend themselves.

Ignore the stats if you want. They do however show you are not safer. I'm sure the woman shot by her 2 year old thought the same way as you.

 

[XPostFacto]

Billc, you are an idiot. Accidents very seldom just happen. They are caused. That lady was criminally negligent in two ways. A shell in the chamber, and the gun where the child could get at it. It was not an accident, it was a stupid extreme risk in which the worst case happened. The other examples you gave were equally stupid. What happened in all cases were equivelant to failing to lock out a machine before working on it. You do that where I work, they walk you to the gate, and you never come back.

and you are f******g moron.....most modern guns are designed to be carried with a bullet in the chamber....moron....and she had the gun in a concealed carry purse and it still went bad for her...accidents happen moron, and no amount of lib hysteria is ever going to change that....

How about you moron anti gunners backing universal gun safety programs in all schools....to teach kids how to deal with guns they find....it wouldn't prevent this accident but it would help in all the others......

But no....you don't want live kids....dead kids are too helpful to up your cause....

Maybe designing a gun to have a round in the chamber with no safety isn't a good idea. Gun owners are way more dangerous to themselves and innocents than criminals. Over 600 people shot and killed in accidents, while only 230 criminals are killed in defense.

Think of all the cops, who have shot themselves in the leg, who carry Glocks. Glocks are the number one gun for accidental self-shootings, mainly because it is just too easy to pull those triggers. It's so easy, even a baby could do it.