Idaho toddler shoots mother dead in Walmart store.

[Old Rocks]

Billc, you are an idiot. Accidents very seldom just happen. They are caused. That lady was criminally negligent in two ways. A shell in the chamber, and the gun where the child could get at it. It was not an accident, it was a stupid extreme risk in which the worst case happened. The other examples you gave were equally stupid. What happened in all cases were equivelant to failing to lock out a machine before working on it. You do that where I work, they walk you to the gate, and you never come back.

 

[2aguy]

40,000 people die in car accidents each year

small price we have to pay for the privilege of driving

Of course unlike guns, cars are very important to daily life. Most people use them daily while most will never need a gun for anything.

but 1.6 million people a year do need guns to stop violent criminal attacks and save live....far more times than guns are used to murder people....and far more times than people are killed in accidents.....

Those 1.6 million people would disagree with your post...their lives depended on having that gun.....

 

[XPostFacto]

Chalk one up to another Glock. They are known to fire even without mashing the trigger. Yeah, it did happen in my house. My brother-in-law racked in a round with his finger off the trigger, and the thing fired. It was like somebody threw a flash bang in the middle of the living room. Thank God nobody was hurt.

 

[Old Rocks]

40,000 people die in car accidents each year

small price we have to pay for the privilege of driving

Of course unlike guns, cars are very important to daily life. Most people use them daily while most will never need a gun for anything.

Not only that, if the trend of the last few years continues, guns will kill more Americans this year than autos.

American Gun Deaths to Exceed Traffic Fatalities by 2015 - Bloomberg

Guns and cars have long been among the leading causes of non-medical deaths in the U.S. By 2015, firearm fatalities will probably exceed traffic fatalities for the first time, based on data compiled by Bloomberg.

 

[XPostFacto]

Billc, you are an idiot. Accidents very seldom just happen. They are caused. That lady was criminally negligent in two ways. A shell in the chamber, and the gun where the child could get at it. It was not an accident, it was a stupid extreme risk in which the worst case happened. The other examples you gave were equally stupid. What happened in all cases were equivalant to failing to lock out a machine before working on it. You do that where I work, they walk you to the gate, and you never come back.

I agree with you that she was negligent, but a gun without a round in the chamber is useless.

 

[Old Rocks]

40,000 people die in car accidents each year

small price we have to pay for the privilege of driving

Of course unlike guns, cars are very important to daily life. Most people use them daily while most will never need a gun for anything.

but 1.6 million people a year do need guns to stop violent criminal attacks and save live....far more times than guns are used to murder people....and far more times than people are killed in accidents.....

Those 1.6 million people would disagree with your post...their lives depended on having that gun.....

link?

 

[2aguy]

Billc, you are an idiot. Accidents very seldom just happen. They are caused. That lady was criminally negligent in two ways. A shell in the chamber, and the gun where the child could get at it. It was not an accident, it was a stupid extreme risk in which the worst case happened. The other examples you gave were equally stupid. What happened in all cases were equivelant to failing to lock out a machine before working on it. You do that where I work, they walk you to the gate, and you never come back.

and you are f******g moron.....most modern guns are designed to be carried with a bullet in the chamber....moron....and she had the gun in a concealed carry purse and it still went bad for her...accidents happen moron, and no amount of lib hysteria is ever going to change that....

How about you moron anti gunners backing universal gun safety programs in all schools....to teach kids how to deal with guns they find....it wouldn't prevent this accident but it would help in all the others......

But no....you don't want live kids....dead kids are too helpful to up your cause....

 

[Old Rocks]

Billc, you are an idiot. Accidents very seldom just happen. They are caused. That lady was criminally negligent in two ways. A shell in the chamber, and the gun where the child could get at it. It was not an accident, it was a stupid extreme risk in which the worst case happened. The other examples you gave were equally stupid. What happened in all cases were equivalant to failing to lock out a machine before working on it. You do that where I work, they walk you to the gate, and you never come back.

I agree with you that she was negligent, but a gun without a round in the chamber is useless.

Really? How long does it take to work the action? And just the sound of the action being worked is often enough to put the fear of God into the miscreant.

 

[Old Rocks]

Billc, you are an idiot. Accidents very seldom just happen. They are caused. That lady was criminally negligent in two ways. A shell in the chamber, and the gun where the child could get at it. It was not an accident, it was a stupid extreme risk in which the worst case happened. The other examples you gave were equally stupid. What happened in all cases were equivelant to failing to lock out a machine before working on it. You do that where I work, they walk you to the gate, and you never come back.

and you are f******g moron.....most modern guns are designed to be carried with a bullet in the chamber....moron....and she had the gun in a concealed carry purse and it still went bad for her...accidents happen moron, and no amount of lib hysteria is ever going to change that....

How about you moron anti gunners backing universal gun safety programs in all schools....to teach kids how to deal with guns they find....it wouldn't prevent this accident but it would help in all the others......

But no....you don't want live kids....dead kids are too helpful to up your cause....

Asshole, with that kind of attitude, you are a danger to all of us that understand basic gun safety. You are truly an idiot.

 

[Old Rocks]

Billc, you are an idiot. Accidents very seldom just happen. They are caused. That lady was criminally negligent in two ways. A shell in the chamber, and the gun where the child could get at it. It was not an accident, it was a stupid extreme risk in which the worst case happened. The other examples you gave were equally stupid. What happened in all cases were equivelant to failing to lock out a machine before working on it. You do that where I work, they walk you to the gate, and you never come back.

and you are f******g moron.....most modern guns are designed to be carried with a bullet in the chamber....moron....and she had the gun in a concealed carry purse and it still went bad for her...accidents happen moron, and no amount of lib hysteria is ever going to change that....

How about you moron anti gunners backing universal gun safety programs in all schools....to teach kids how to deal with guns they find....it wouldn't prevent this accident but it would help in all the others......

But no....you don't want live kids....dead kids are too helpful to up your cause....

By the way, asshole, I have been in on gun safety programs in Venture Scouting, and have owned guns for nearly 60 years.

 

[2aguy]

40,000 people die in car accidents each year

small price we have to pay for the privilege of driving

Of course unlike guns, cars are very important to daily life. Most people use them daily while most will never need a gun for anything.

but 1.6 million people a year do need guns to stop violent criminal attacks and save live....far more times than guns are used to murder people....and far more times than people are killed in accidents.....

Those 1.6 million people would disagree with your post...their lives depended on having that gun.....

link?

And you too are a f******g moron....but here is your link...you can figure out the average for yourself if you want....

----------------------------------

again....the bottom column of the chart never wants to post so I give the name of the people or group doing the study, the year of the study and number of times they found guns were used to save lives and stop violent crime each year....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717

Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIa 1978...2,141,512
DMIb...1978...1,098,409

Hart...1981...1.797,461

Ohio...1982...771,043
Mauser...1990...1,487,342

Gallup...1991...777,153

Gallup...1993...1,621,377
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,682

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036

And this from the clinton justice department...

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million
(Subsequent to Kleck's study, the Department of Justice sponsored a survey in 1994 titled, Guns in America: National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms (text,PDF). Using a smaller sample size than Kleck's, this survey estimated 1.5 million DGU's annually.)



Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
.(Lawrence Southwick, Jr.,Guns and Justifiable Homicide: Deterrence and Defense-concludes there are at least 400,000 "fewer violent crimes due to civilian self-defense use of guns" and at least "800,000 violent crimes are deterred each year because of gun ownership and use by civilians.")


From Obama's CDC...they spent 10 million dollars in 2013 for this study...

from slate.com an article on CDC obama's era...500-3 million defensive gun uses

Handguns suicides mass shootings deaths and self-defense Findings from a research report on gun violence.
7. Guns are used for self-defense often and effectively. “Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year … in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008,” says the report. The three million figure is probably high, “based on an extrapolation from a small number of responses taken from more than 19 national surveys.”
--------------------

"Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year."
As shown in the previous footnote, this study did not use a nationally representative population. To correct for this, Just Facts used the following equation:


I re ran the numbers with all of the studies and the average number of times guns are used to save lives and stop violent crime each year in the United States is 1.6 million....including 2.5 million times from the Kleck study and the 108,000 from the National Crime Victimization Study numbers....

8-9,000 gun murders a year vs. 1.6 million times, on average that a non law enforcement, non military, law abiding citizen stops a violent criminal attack or saves a life....

8-9,000 vs. 1.6 million....

Guns save far more lives than they take....even using the lowest numbers from anti gun biased studies.....

 

[2aguy]

Billc, you are an idiot. Accidents very seldom just happen. They are caused. That lady was criminally negligent in two ways. A shell in the chamber, and the gun where the child could get at it. It was not an accident, it was a stupid extreme risk in which the worst case happened. The other examples you gave were equally stupid. What happened in all cases were equivelant to failing to lock out a machine before working on it. You do that where I work, they walk you to the gate, and you never come back.

and you are f******g moron.....most modern guns are designed to be carried with a bullet in the chamber....moron....and she had the gun in a concealed carry purse and it still went bad for her...accidents happen moron, and no amount of lib hysteria is ever going to change that....

How about you moron anti gunners backing universal gun safety programs in all schools....to teach kids how to deal with guns they find....it wouldn't prevent this accident but it would help in all the others......

But no....you don't want live kids....dead kids are too helpful to up your cause....

By the way, asshole, I have been in on gun safety programs in Venture Scouting, and have owned guns for nearly 60 years.

and you are still an asshole....not a surprise.....moron....

 

[XPostFacto]

Billc, you are an idiot. Accidents very seldom just happen. They are caused. That lady was criminally negligent in two ways. A shell in the chamber, and the gun where the child could get at it. It was not an accident, it was a stupid extreme risk in which the worst case happened. The other examples you gave were equally stupid. What happened in all cases were equivalant to failing to lock out a machine before working on it. You do that where I work, they walk you to the gate, and you never come back.

I agree with you that she was negligent, but a gun without a round in the chamber is useless.

Really? How long does it take to work the action? And just the sound of the action being worked is often enough to put the fear of God into the miscreant.

Have you ever put that to the test in a real life or death situation, or is it that you watch a lot of movies and therefore you consider yourself an expert?

I guarantee you, cops don't run around without a round in the chamber.

 

[Old Rocks]

Chalk one up to another Glock. They are known to fire even without mashing the trigger. Yeah, it did happen in my house. My brother-in-law racked in a round with his finger off the trigger, and the thing fired. It was like somebody threw a flash bang in the middle of the living room. Thank God nobody was hurt.

One question, why a loaded gun in the house? Was there an immediate danger? I was taught that a loaded gun never enters the house unless there is an immediate danger.

 

[2aguy]

Billc, you are an idiot. Accidents very seldom just happen. They are caused. That lady was criminally negligent in two ways. A shell in the chamber, and the gun where the child could get at it. It was not an accident, it was a stupid extreme risk in which the worst case happened. The other examples you gave were equally stupid. What happened in all cases were equivalant to failing to lock out a machine before working on it. You do that where I work, they walk you to the gate, and you never come back.

I agree with you that she was negligent, but a gun without a round in the chamber is useless.

Really? How long does it take to work the action? And just the sound of the action being worked is often enough to put the fear of God into the miscreant.

and this kind of stupidity proves you are an idiot.....

The kind of carry you suggest, loaded magazine, no round in the chamber is not an approved self defense doctrine.....because the time between the draw, and racking the slide can lead to misfeeds.....as you are trying to rack that slide, from the holster under the pressure of an imminent threat.....

 

[2aguy]

Chalk one up to another Glock. They are known to fire even without mashing the trigger. Yeah, it did happen in my house. My brother-in-law racked in a round with his finger off the trigger, and the thing fired. It was like somebody threw a flash bang in the middle of the living room. Thank God nobody was hurt.

One question, why a loaded gun in the house? Was there an immediate danger? I was taught that a loaded gun never enters the house unless there is an immediate danger.

And how do you know when the imminent danger is about to happen....ever read these home invasion stories.....? Did the home invaders give a phone call ahead of time....?


Here is an article that examines the pros and cons of "Israeli Carry" as it is now termed, although it was used in Shaghai...

The Thinking Gunfighter THE MYTHS OF THE ISRAELI METHOD OF CARRY or why carrying chamber empty isn 8217 t so bad.

 

[BULLDOG]

Wow, this one even made the BBC 10pm news. Surprised no one here has posted this one yet, or are these stories so common that no one here bothers with them anymore? Or maybe I am on the wrong forum?

Idaho toddler shoots and kills his mother inside Walmart US news The Guardian

You may now proceed to slag me off, or educate me as to why so many American adults have a level of common sense like that of little children.

The child claimed he was in fear for his life. Another one of those stand your ground things.

The authorities have decided the try the 2-year old as an adult.

I guess they must have transferred the case to Texas. We'll kill them all. Doesn't matter if they are still in diapers or crazy. It makes us feel macho.

 

[XPostFacto]

Chalk one up to another Glock. They are known to fire even without mashing the trigger. Yeah, it did happen in my house. My brother-in-law racked in a round with his finger off the trigger, and the thing fired. It was like somebody threw a flash bang in the middle of the living room. Thank God nobody was hurt.

One question, why a loaded gun in the house? Was there an immediate danger? I was taught that a loaded gun never enters the house unless there is an immediate danger.

That was my brother-in-law's Glock 21. He had just cleaned it and reloaded it since he carries concealed. For your information, I keep loaded guns in my house as well, I keep a .45 under my bed and another one where I can get it if I need it in a pinch. I don't have any children. It's just my wife and me. Like Billic and I have tried to tell you, an unloaded gun is useless to you if you need it for defense. What are you going to tell the home invader, "Hold on until I get my gun loaded and a round racked in the chamber, then I'll show you something about how wrong you were to invade my house"?

 

[Spare_change]

It's called 'cleaning out the gene pool'.

Put a gun in the hands of an idiot, and it works ....

Figure we'll be rid of all the liberals in about six months if we can get them to pick up the gun.

 

[2aguy]

Now....with children in the house...you could take the step to not racking the slide.....especially with more modern guns....but that would have to be a decision weighing the risks....and in most cases it makes sense....until it doesn't.....

and of course...revolvers don't have safeties either....

But for sure...wear your gun...