Zone1 If Blacks Do What Whites Have Done We Will Be Successful

Your example of Asians being good at maths if it has been proven that they are collectively better at maths than other people is not a stereotype.

A Stereotype by its very nature is not true. It is creating a false impression of people. They are also as I said before the fundamental blocks of prejudice. If someone is using stereotypes then they are creating a false impression and should be confronted.
Stereotypes so not have to be negative, and thusly are not necessarily derogatory. They are just traits associated with groups instead of being accurate on an individual level. Unfortunately, they can be used to demean people, but can’t be relied upon as truth when evaluating individuals. They are useful as general information, though, regarding the behaviors of certain groups. In conjunction with other deductive skills, they can have a valid use in predicting outcomes.
 
Stereotypes so not have to be negative, and thusly are not necessarily derogatory. They are just traits associated with groups instead of being accurate on an individual level. Unfortunately, they can be used to demean people, but can’t be relied upon as truth when evaluating individuals. They are useful as general information, though, regarding the behaviors of certain groups. In conjunction with other deductive skills, they can have a valid use in predicting outcomes.
I think that is giving stereotypes too much credit for accuracy, even as a group. Many stereotypes have a kernel of truth that helps perpetrate the many falsehoods.
 
Many stereotypes have a kernel of truth that helps perpetrate the many falsehoods.
That's why I posted this:
IOW, based in an observable truth.
Behaviors become associated with groups due to a prevalence of observed experiences with said groups. Those traits become stereotypes for those groups, even though they can be wildly inaccurate on an individual basis.
 
Your example of Asians being good at maths if it has been proven that they are collectively better at maths than other people is not a stereotype.

A Stereotype by its very nature is not true. It is creating a false impression of people. They are also as I said before the fundamental blocks of prejudice. If someone is using stereotypes then they are creating a false impression and should be confronted.
Asians who are good at math study very hard

Dont make it sound like its easier for them because it isnt
 
Stereotypes so not have to be negative, and thusly are not necessarily derogatory. They are just traits associated with groups instead of being accurate on an individual level. Unfortunately, they can be used to demean people, but can’t be relied upon as truth when evaluating individuals. They are useful as general information, though, regarding the behaviors of certain groups. In conjunction with other deductive skills, they can have a valid use in predicting outcomes.
With prejudice and stereotypes we are often very unaware of how we are affected.

Prejudice is an attitude. Stereotype is a belief. Both prejudice and stereotypes are often not based in reason or personal experience, but they shape the way that we see the world. If left unchecked, prejudices and stereotypes can lead to discrimination and violence.

What Is Stereotyping?​

Where do our judgements and attitudes come from? Why did Trump form such a strong judgement against the Central Park Five when they hadn’t been given a proper trial? Often, prejudice comes from stereotypes.

Stereotypes are an oversimplified belief about a group of people, typically an “out-group” (group of people that we do not belong to). Stereotypes may come from images that we see in the media or social values. Your parents, teachers, or community leaders may have taught you to believe stereotypes, even if they aren’t true.

A stereotype may be the idea that a man is a better leader than a woman. Or the idea that overweight people are lazy. Or the idea that homeless people are drug addicts. Stereotypes are generalizations. You might know someone who is overweight and lazy. That doesn’t mean that the stereotype that overweight people are lazy is true.

It can be extremely hard to unlearn stereotypes. After all, they are taught to us from the moment we are born. They may be so ingrained in our minds that we don’t consciously think about them. That’s why riddles like the one mentioned earlier can be so uncomfortable or eye-opening.


This article includes a test which you can try to see how much you, and anyone else here, is affected by both prejudice and stereotypes.

Implicit Association​

These unconscious stereotypes include implicit association. Your subconscious may associate white people with more positive traits or LGBTQ people with more negative traits. And while you may believe that you have an unbiased opinion toward certain groups, tests like Harvard’s Implicit Association Test may say otherwise.


I would be interested in hearing where you got your definition of stereotype from.
 
With prejudice and stereotypes we are often very unaware of how we are affected.



This article includes a test which you can try to see how much you, and anyone else here, is affected by both prejudice and stereotypes.
I don't disagree. Everyone is affected to some degree or another by stereotypes and prejudices. I'm just saying that stereotypes, when considered in the right context, can be a useful tool, in conjunction with others, for navigating life's various circumstances. Not all stereotypes are negative, and prejudices can be quite helpful in the decision making process.
 
I don't disagree. Everyone is affected to some degree or another by stereotypes and prejudices. I'm just saying that stereotypes, when considered in the right context, can be a useful tool, in conjunction with others, for navigating life's various circumstances. Not all stereotypes are negative, and prejudices can be quite helpful in the decision making process.
I studied stereotypes when I was doing my degree and they were in themselves always negative and used to create an image of a group of people which showed them in a poor light. It may be that one person had acted in this way or twelve even but the stereotype claims they all do when that is always far from the truth. Given your first example, that of the Asians being good at maths. That could also be a stereotype if one expected all Asians to be good at maths....and it could lead to them being harmed if they were always expected to be good at maths and failed to perform as expected. What is absolutely missing in the business of stereotypes is an understanding that we are all different. It is an attempt to claim that all people belonging to a particular group are the same. As such its prime objective is to dehumanise those people. They are not individuals as other humans are. They as a group are..... If it is based on Asians being good at maths and you do not expect all Asians to be good at maths then I would say you made a mistake there. It was not a stereotype It is just that at the moment Asians are top of the board for Maths. We do something similar here in the UK seeing which of the four countries are best at what. No one however expects that any particular Scot or Welsh will be good or poor at a subject just because they come top of the board in them....and that I think is the key difference which defines a stereotype. A stereotype claims all people of a particular group are something. There will always be the caveat that there are exceptions but basically a group believes that all Jews, bar the exception, will act in a particular way and that way being one which puts them beneath 'us'.. Stereotypes are hence used to put another group of people down. To categorise them all as having some kind of inherent disability or violent or criminal core. If you read the article I linked to you would have seen how one person's stereotypes could have led to the killing of 5 innocent young men. As human beings we are individuals. None of us is better than any others just because of the colour of our skin, our sexual preference, our gender, our religion or anything else. Stereotypes try to make this so in order to get people to hate 'the other'.
 
So we are told that if blacks do certain things that we will suceed.

1) Waiting until marriage to have children, and then only when at least one of the marriage partners is gainfully employed in a job that allows them to afford them, and

2) A very strong emphasis that education is the key to success - including higher education in a marketable field - that is instilled beginning in elementary school.

Of course, there are other traits that contribute to one’s degree of success - motivation, ability, intelligence, discipline, etc. - but the two above, if followed, practically guarantees that one will become at least lower-middle class, and likely higher.


Are these things relly how whites became sucessful?

Whether it was colonial government or the current republic we have now, the government has provided whites with more than it has ever given to anyone else. This was not because people of color did not take the opportunity because most of these things EXCLUDED non white participation. The handouts/privilege started with this:

In 1618, the Virginia colony passed "the Great Charter of privileges, orders, and laws." Among these laws was a provision that any person who settled in Virginia or paid for the transportation of another person to settle in Virginia would get fifty acres of land per person. “The right to receive fifty acres per person, or per head, was called a headright.” It got even better for colonists as those who “imported” slaves also got fifty acres per slave. The practice was continued by the government of Virginia, for 161 years, ending in 1779. Headrights were not only limited to Virginia. The headright system was used in all the original thirteen colonies. Headrights were the first of many government handouts of free stuff or guarantees providing whites with economic development assistance.

It continued with this:

The Three-Fifths Compromise is found in Article 1, Section 2, Clause 3 of the United States Constitution. It says: “Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three-fifths of all other Persons.”

And with this:

The Naturalization Act of 1790 states: “any alien, being a free white person,” could apply for citizenship, so long as they lived in the United States for at least two years and in the state where the application was filed for at least one year. This law allowed “children of citizens of the United States that may be born … out of the limits of the United States shall be considered as natural-born citizens.” Please notice the first seven words. Only whites were entitled to be citizens of this country.

And with this:

One of the greatest miscarriages of justice in this nation’s history was a direct rebuttal to the claim that all men are created equal called Dred Scott v. Sandford. I am not going into all the particulars of this case. The court’s opinion says all you need to know. “A black man has no rights a white man is bound to respect.” The result of Dred Scott v. Sandford was that whites were given rights and status blacks were denied.Or- Affirmative Action.

And with this:

Anti-literacy Laws in the United States Once Prevented Blacks from Getting an Education

(NO OTHER RACE WAS DENIED THE RIGHT TO READ)

Passed in 1862, the Homestead Acts gave away 246 million acres of land. To qualify for Homestead land, a person had to be a citizen of the United States, and blacks were not given citizenship until 1866.


And this:

"After the Civil War ended in 1865, some states passed black codes that severely limited the rights of Black people, many of whom had been enslaved. These codes limited what jobs African Americans could hold, and their ability to leave a job once hired. Some states also restricted the kind of property Black people could own. The Reconstruction Act of 1867 weakened the effect of the Black codes by requiring all states to uphold equal protection under the 14th Amendment, particularly by enabling Black men to vote. (U.S. law prevented women of any race from voting in federal elections until 1920.)

During Reconstruction, many Black men participated in politics by voting and by holding office. Reconstruction officially ended in 1877, and southern states then enacted more discriminatory laws. Efforts to enforce white supremacy by legislation increased, and African Americans tried to assert their rights through legal challenges. However, this effort led to a disappointing result in 1896, when the Supreme Court ruled, in Plessy v. Ferguson, that so-called “separate but equal” facilities—including public transport and schools—were constitutional. From this time until the Civil Rights Act of 1964, discrimination and segregation were legal and enforceable."

July 9, 2018 was the 150th anniversary of the 14th Amendment, which purported to grant African Americans the rights and responsibilities of full citizenship, among other things. American history shows that people who are equal on paper can be unequal in practice—especially with regards to the right to bear arms.

On April 16, 1895, the United States Supreme Court rendered another one of the sorriest decisions in American history. It is known as Plessy vs. Ferguson. From this decision came the principle of separate but equal.


And this:

The National Housing Act was passed by Congress and signed by President Franklin D. Roosevelt in 1934.29 This law created the Federal Housing Administration or the FHA. The National Housing Act is the policy that may have had the most impact on wealth accumulation in modern America.

Between 1934 and 1968, the FHA implemented and put into practice a policy that still negatively impacts communities today.30 The FHA Underwriting Manual set the guidelines real estate agents used to assess home values in American neighborhoods. This manual promoted racist real estate practices. It was done by defending racially restrictive covenants and segregated communities. Due to this manual, the FHA established a neighborhood grading system based purely on false racist perceptions.

Redlining was the name of that grading system. My point here is the FHA was a government agency whose policies specifically provided whites with opportunities to increase wealth through homeownership. The formation of the FHA and its guaranteed loan program only worked to increase white advantage.
“Of the $120 billion worth of new housing subsidized by the government between 1934 and 1962, less than 2 percent went to nonwhite families.”

"The racial-exclusion clauses in deeds were not only recommended by the federal government, but in some cases required as a condition of Federal Housing Administration and Veterans Administration subsidies for the creation of all-white suburbs, like Levittown in New York state. And federal and state courts, in violation of their constitutional obligations, enforced those deed clauses by ordering the eviction of African Americans who bought homes where the deeds barred them from doing so."

And this:

The Social Security Act of 1935 created the Social Security program, state unemployment insurance, and assistance to single women with children.Today, most Americans love the program. However, when the act was signed, the law excluded occupations mainly done by blacks. When President Roosevelt signed the law, approximately two-thirds of the blacks in America were ineligible. For years, most blacks were excluded from social security savings and could not get unemployment.

And this:

Title 4 or IV of the social security act of 1935 provided grants to states as Aid To Dependent Children. Eventually the name of the program was changed to Aid to Families with Dependent Children. This was welfare, folks. Assistance for single moms with children and no daddy at home. In 1935. Blacks were excluded.

And this:

The Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938 created the minimum wage and time and a half overtime pay for working over forty hours a week. Child labor was eliminated by this act. All these were good things, but… In every law that was passed as part of The New Deal, Roosevelt had to compromise with southern representatives to get the votes he needed. In the case of the FLSA, due to pressure from southern congress members, he decided that industries would be excluded from the regulations where the majority of workers were black. Because of this, blacks were paid less than the minimum wage.

And this:

On June 22, 1944, President Roosevelt signed the Servicemen’s Readjustment Act, better known as the G.I. Bill.38 This law provided benefits for veterans returning from World War Two. This act included funds for college tuition, low-cost home loans, and unemployment insurance. As in every other program during this time, southern members of Congress fought the passage of these laws unless there were provisions that limited access to blacks.

Over one million returning black soldiers were unable to get GI benefits. My father was one of those soldiers.



Headrights, Headrights (VA-NOTES)

What was the Headright System? Headright System History & Significance | What was the Headright System? - Video & Lesson Transcript | Study.com

Williams, T. (2000). The Homestead Act: A major asset-building policy in American history (CSD Working Paper No. 00-9). St. Louis, MO: Washington University, Center for Social Development. Pg.11 The Homestead Act: A Major Asset-Building Policy in American History
Freedmen's Bureau Act, Freedmen's Bureau Act, March 3, 1865 | The Freedmen's Bureau Online




James Chen, National Housing Act, Updated Sep 3, 2019, What Is the National Housing Act?

Alexis C. Madrigal, The Racist Housing Policy That Made Your Neighborhood, The Atlantic, May 22, 2014, The Racist Housing Policy That Made Your Neighborhood


PBS, Race-The Power of An Illusion, Uncle Sam Lends A Hand, Did the Government Racialize Housing and Wealth? RACE - The Power of an Illusion . Go Deeper | PBS

The Social Security Act of 1935, Social Security History

Larry DeWitt, The Decision to Exclude Agricultural and Domestic Workers from the 1935 Social Security Act, Social Security Bulletin, Vol. 70, No. 4, 2010

Brad Plumer, A second look at Social Security’s racist origins, Washington Post, June 3, 2013, https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...cond-look-at-social-securitys-racist-origins/

Linda Gordon and Felice Batlan, The Legal History of the Aid to Dependent Children Program, Aid To Dependent Children: The Legal History

Johnathan Grossman, Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938: Maximum Struggle for a Minimum Wage, U.S. Department of Labor, Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938: Maximum Struggle for a Minimum Wage | U.S. Department of Labor

Servicemen’s Readjustment Act (G.I. Bill), Servicemen's Readjustment Act (1944) Facts - G.I. Bill for Veterans

Erin Blakemore, How the GI Bill's Promise Was Denied to a Million Black WWII Veterans, How the GI Bill's Promise Was Denied to a Million Black WWII Veterans, June 21, 2019

Brandon Weber, How African American WWII Veterans Were Scorned By the G.I. Bill, The Progressive, November 10, 2017, How African American WWII Veterans Were Scorned By the G.I. Bill
Sally Kohn, Affirmative Action Has Helped White Women More Than Anyone, Time, JUNE 17, 2013, Affirmative Action Has Helped White Women More Than Anyone.

Fact Sheet: Affirmative Action and What It Means for Women, July 1, 2000, The National Womens Law Center, https://nwlc.org/resources/affirmative-action-and-what-it-means-women/

Tim Wise, Is Sisterhood Conditional?: White Women and the Rollback of Affirmative Action, September 23, 1998, Is Sisterhood Conditional?: White Women and the Rollback of Affirmative Action

Victoria M. Massie, White women benefit most from affirmative action — and are among its fiercest opponents, White women benefit most from affirmative action — and are among its fiercest opponents

Do you really want blacks to emulate the actions of "more successful" groups?


TLDR.

I will say that just because one does what one seemingly successful person does, or people do, is not guarantee for success. There are plenty of White folk who are not successful and there are plenty of Black folk who are. And Hispanic and Asian and so on.

I would consider myself successful, not rich but certainly comfortable, and I don't believe I ever patterned my actions in life after those of someone else. I did what I did to achieve the things I wanted.

I believe personal motivation is the best path to success, not doing what others do.
 
Yeah, all they have to do is get a whole class of people to work for them for free for about 100 years. Amazing how much wealth you can stockpile when you don't pay for labor.

As the song goes... (From Cabinet Battle #1 : Hamilton, The New American Musical)

Thomas Jefferson:
If New York's in debt, why should Virginia bear it?
Uh, our debts are paid, I'm afraid
Don't tax the South 'cause we got it made in the shade

In Virginia, we plant seeds in the ground
We create, you just wanna move our money around

This financial plan is an outrageous demand
And it's too many damn pages for any man to understand
Stand with me in the land of the free and pray to God we never see Hamilton's candidacy

Look, when Britain taxed our tea, we got frisky
Imagine what gon' happen when you try to tax our whisky


Thank you, Secretary Jefferson
Secretary Hamilton, your response


Thomas, that was a real nice declaration
Welcome to the present, we're running a real nation
Would you like to join us, or stay mellow
Doin' whatever the hell it is you do in Monticello?

If we assume the debts, the union gets new line of credit, a financial diuretic
How do you not get it, if we're aggressive and competitive
The union gets a boost, you'd rather give it a sedative?

A civics lesson from a slaver, hey neighbor
Your debts are paid 'cause you don't pay for labor
"We plant seeds in the South. We create." Yeah, keep ranting
We know who's really doing the planting
Candy, look at the calendar. The year is 2022 not 1822. You and IM2 are pretending like the injustice of slavery has some relevance to the lives of American Black people today. That is absolute hogwash. Slavery has not affected any Black person for 100 years and Systemic Racism was eradicated from the US over 40 years ago.
 
TLDR.

I will say that just because one does what one seemingly successful person does, or people do, is not guarantee for success. There are plenty of White folk who are not successful and there are plenty of Black folk who are. And Hispanic and Asian and so on.

I would consider myself successful, not rich but certainly comfortable, and I don't believe I ever patterned my actions in life after those of someone else. I did what I did to achieve the things I wanted.

I believe personal motivation is the best path to success, not doing what others do.
I agree with what you stated here. However, if we are speaking in generalities then as a group poor Black people would overall have a better quality of life if they lived by the "rules" stated by IM2:

1) Waiting until marriage to have children, and then only when at least one of the marriage partners is gainfully employed in a job that allows them to afford them, and

2) A very strong emphasis that education is the key to success - including higher education in a marketable field - that is instilled beginning in elementary school.
 
You said they were all negative. You haven't shown proof that they're all negative.
I suggested the stereotype of "asians are good at math" as an example of a positive stereotype, but Alexa said that obvious example doesn't count. Lol.
I guess that's the hubris you get from taking a few classes.
 
I suggested the stereotype of "asians are good at math" as an example of a positive stereotype, but Alexa said that obvious example doesn't count. Lol.
I guess that's the hubris you get from taking a few classes.

Well, if one Asian person isn't good at math, it's negative for them......or some such foolishness.
 
I studied stereotypes when I was doing my degree and they were in themselves always negative and used to create an image of a group of people which showed them in a poor light.
That is obviously incorrect. There are many stereotypes that caste a positive light on those being stereotyped. "Blacks are natural athletes, Asians are highly intelligent, Jews are smart businessmen" are three examples of that.
 
You said they were all negative. You haven't shown proof that they're all negative.
I said they tended to be negative,. even ones which appear to be positive and the reason for that is that they are not true. I also said that if they were true they were not a stereotype.

Here are some examples of positive and negative stereotypes and how positive ones like negative ones cause problems and the reason for that is that they are not the truth.


As that article also shows negative stereotypes are far more common than positive.

So, yes, there are positive stereotypes but they like negative ones are not true. They like negative ones put out a false image of what people are. That is the basis of what stereotypes are and why they should be avoided as much as possible. They are not the truth.

To be blunt, yes. Positive stereotypes are just as harmful as negative ones.

In one study, Asian-Americans were divided randomly into two groups, one of which experienced stereotyping. Turns out that the participants in that group severely disliked those who stereotyped them. They felt depersonalized and angry. The same results happen when you tell women that they’re nurturing and in touch with their emotions, or tell someone tall and dark-skinned that he must be good at basketball.
Another study has found that believing in a positive stereotype will reinforce the beliefs of negative stereotypes. For example, people who were exposed to the stereotype that blacks are superior at sports unquestioningly believed it; later on, these people had much stronger negative feelings and beliefs about other stereotypes, such as “Blacks are violent.”



I never thought I would have to tell people what stereotypes were on a forum. Do you people not get educated on racism in the United States because that is the basis of what stereotypes are about.
 
I said they tended to be negative,. even ones which appear to be positive and the reason for that is that they are not true. I also said that if they were true they were not a stereotype.

Here are some examples of positive and negative stereotypes and how positive ones like negative ones cause problems and the reason for that is that they are not the truth.


As that article also shows negative stereotypes are far more common than positive.

So, yes, there are positive stereotypes but they like negative ones are not true. They like negative ones put out a false image of what people are. That is the basis of what stereotypes are and why they should be avoided as much as possible. They are not the truth.






I never thought I would have to tell people what stereotypes were on a forum. Do you people not get educated on racism in the United States because that is the basis of what stereotypes are about.

I said they tended to be negative,.

Wrong.

I studied stereotypes when I was doing my degree and they were in themselves always negative

So, yes, there are positive stereotypes

Thanks for admitting your error.

I never thought I would have to tell people what stereotypes were on a forum.

I never thought I'd have to explain the difference between "always" and "tend to be".
 
I said they tended to be negative,.

Wrong.

I studied stereotypes when I was doing my degree and they were in themselves always negative



Which they are. They are not the truth. To spread lies about people is negative. The examples I gave to you showed this. In reality there is nothing positive that can come from stereotypes. It is just allowing yourself to form a picture of other people which is not true.

For the rest, stop trying to take what is a very serious subject to gutter talk. If you can't deal with the subject including that positive stereotypes have a negative affect then choose another thread to play with. This is serious. Do you want to carry on stereotyping people. If so why?
 
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Stereotypes exist because of observed patterns in groups. It doesn’t mean that they apply to every member of said group, but that a likelyhood does exist if one takes into account historical evidence. A lot of Jewish people are good with finances, a lot of black people are exceptional athletes, a lot of white people aren’t good dancers. I don’t make the stereotypes, but can see why they exist. Can you?
So since we observe a 400 year pattern of racism among whites does this mean we stereotype all whites as racists?
 

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