If God did not exist

[Alfalfa]

While Flew embraced the concept of there potentially being an inteeligent design to the universe, he castegorically rejected the notion of God as presented by christians, muslims and judaism.

"He supported the idea of an Aristotelian God with "the characteristics of power and also intelligence", stating that the evidence for it was stronger than ever before. He rejects the ideas of an afterlife, of God as the source of good (he explicitly states that God has created "a lot of" evil), and of the resurrection of Jesus as a historical fact though he has allowed a short chapter arguing for Christ's resurrection to be added into his latest book.[6]

Flew was particularly hostile to Islam, and said it is "best described in a Marxian way as the uniting and justifying ideology of Arab imperialism."[6] In a December 2004 interview he said: "I'm thinking of a God very different from the God of the Christian and far and away from the God of Islam, because both are depicted as omnipotent Oriental despots, cosmic Saddam Husseins".[21]"

Antony Flew - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I never could figure out why atheists are always so hell bent on convincing other people there is no God?? ..

Actually, its the other way around.

You'll never open your door on a Saturday morning to a rude little granny, little kid in tow, loaded down with tracts they want you to read.

What's actually fascinating is that almost all cultures have had the need for a super being to believe in, lean on, blame and credit.

Seems like that's a very basic weakness that we humans all share.

 

[turzovka]

While Flew embraced the concept of there potentially being an inteeligent design to the universe, he castegorically rejected the notion of God as presented by christians, muslims and judaism.

"He supported the idea of an Aristotelian God with "the characteristics of power and also intelligence", stating that the evidence for it was stronger than ever before. He rejects the ideas of an afterlife, of God as the source of good (he explicitly states that God has created "a lot of" evil), and of the resurrection of Jesus as a historical fact though he has allowed a short chapter arguing for Christ's resurrection to be added into his latest book.[6]

Flew was particularly hostile to Islam, and said it is "best described in a Marxian way as the uniting and justifying ideology of Arab imperialism."[6] In a December 2004 interview he said: "I'm thinking of a God very different from the God of the Christian and far and away from the God of Islam, because both are depicted as omnipotent Oriental despots, cosmic Saddam Husseins".[21]"

Antony Flew - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One step at a time is all we can hope for. We have now established Intelligent Design with the previous atheist intelligentsia. Based on reason.


PS -- I am rather hostile to Islam myself.

 

[pacer]

When someone dies, you can feel it. You don't even have to be looking and you can feel it when their soul slips from this earth into heaven or what ever you want to call it. I can't even describe it but it is something that is real and it is palpable.

What you are describing is a state of full body presence or consciousness. It is a serene, peaceful, beautiful, almost dreamlike state. Buddhists refer to it as Nirvana, a state of profound peace, calm, stillness of mind.

 

[Ernie S.]

I never could figure out why atheists are always so hell bent on convincing other people there is no God?? ..

Actually, its the other way around.

You'll never open your door on a Saturday morning to a rude little granny, little kid in tow, loaded down with tracts they want you to read.

What's actually fascinating is that almost all cultures have had the need for a super being to believe in, lean on, blame and credit.

Seems like that's a very basic weakness that we humans all share.

I consider it a strength.

It may be a weakness if your "super being" is government.

 

[Alfalfa]

While Flew embraced the concept of there potentially being an inteeligent design to the universe, he castegorically rejected the notion of God as presented by christians, muslims and judaism.

"He supported the idea of an Aristotelian God with "the characteristics of power and also intelligence", stating that the evidence for it was stronger than ever before. He rejects the ideas of an afterlife, of God as the source of good (he explicitly states that God has created "a lot of" evil), and of the resurrection of Jesus as a historical fact though he has allowed a short chapter arguing for Christ's resurrection to be added into his latest book.[6]

Flew was particularly hostile to Islam, and said it is "best described in a Marxian way as the uniting and justifying ideology of Arab imperialism."[6] In a December 2004 interview he said: "I'm thinking of a God very different from the God of the Christian and far and away from the God of Islam, because both are depicted as omnipotent Oriental despots, cosmic Saddam Husseins".[21]"

Antony Flew - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One step at a time is all we can hope for. We have now established Intelligent Design with the previous atheist intelligentsia. Based on reason.


PS -- I am rather hostile to Islam myself.

No, you haven't. It was one guy, late in his years bordering on senility.

 

[deltex1]

Good book!

The god delusion is far better than the no god delusion.

 

[daws101]

As a police officer for 20 years, I've seen and been near many, many people when they have passed from this earth. I have held broken bodies, held their face in my hands reaching through shattered windshields, held their hands and told them that they would be okay, even if I knew that they wouldn't. I held my 41 day old son in my arms while he passed away. And I sat holding her hand as the only woman I have ever loved slipped away to be with her father and the son we lost in heaven.

When someone dies, you can feel it. You don't even have to be looking and you can feel it when their soul slips from this earth into heaven or what ever you want to call it. I can't even describe it but it is something that is real and it is palpable.

I know of many instances as well of people who had tumors, cancers, sicknesses that should have taken their lives come from doctor visits only to report that those things are just gone. No sign. Nothing. Just gone and cured.

God is real and He is alive, working with His children each and every day. As an evangelical Christian I choose to believe that the Christian bible is the written word of God and that Jesus Christ was His living Son. But I also have nothing but respect and admiration for Catholics and Jewish followers of their faith. As an American, I don't care if you wish to worship door knobs, that is your right as a citizen.

As for athiests, I have no animosity because when I was young, I was a devoted athiest. I do pity athiests because they put their faith into a flawed organism as their supreme being. If man is the height of this universe and there is no more, then my friend, we are in deep trouble.

You can post all of the information you want on why there is not a God. I know what I know and what I have seen and heard. I get down on my knees everyday and thank Christ for the wisdom to see his works in my life.

excellent story and if it works for you then have at it .
on the other hand it's totally subjective.
no atheist that I know considers human kind a supreme being of any kind.
I would say if we need a supreme to worship and deliver punishment ,we are not just in deep trouble but are fated to be treated as violent children forever or at least till imaginary rapture.

 

[Newby]

Given the nature of the statement, whether or not you trust the man is irrelevant. He's not asking you to purchase anything or trying to convince you to let him babysit your kids, just spouting philosophical opinions. Rather than saying his statements are true or false based on your knowledge of his sexual history, why not take an honest look at what he's saying and use your ability to reason to decide whether or not there's any validity to what he's proposed.

Good God, kids. Turn your logic on.

You yourself pointed out they're his 'philosophical opinions', so how would they be either true or false, they're opinions? And why would anyone take the opinion of a man that has an obvious agenda and give it validity? Not only an agenda, but perhaps the apparent reason behind the agenda has been exposed if he's a proponent of sexual behavior with children. In that case, his opinion is worthless and deserves no 'honest look'. I guess if I thought inappropriately touching children caused no harm then I would also like to believe that there is no moral code of any kind to hold me back, and vilify any moral standard that labeled me as deviant. How's that for 'reason' and 'logic'?

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

As a police officer for 20 years, I've seen and been near many, many people when they have passed from this earth. I have held broken bodies, held their face in my hands reaching through shattered windshields, held their hands and told them that they would be okay, even if I knew that they wouldn't. I held my 41 day old son in my arms while he passed away. And I sat holding her hand as the only woman I have ever loved slipped away to be with her father and the son we lost in heaven.

When someone dies, you can feel it. You don't even have to be looking and you can feel it when their soul slips from this earth into heaven or what ever you want to call it. I can't even describe it but it is something that is real and it is palpable.

I know of many instances as well of people who had tumors, cancers, sicknesses that should have taken their lives come from doctor visits only to report that those things are just gone. No sign. Nothing. Just gone and cured.

God is real and He is alive, working with His children each and every day. As an evangelical Christian I choose to believe that the Christian bible is the written word of God and that Jesus Christ was His living Son. But I also have nothing but respect and admiration for Catholics and Jewish followers of their faith. As an American, I don't care if you wish to worship door knobs, that is your right as a citizen.

As for athiests, I have no animosity because when I was young, I was a devoted athiest. I do pity athiests because they put their faith into a flawed organism as their supreme being. If man is the height of this universe and there is no more, then my friend, we are in deep trouble.

You can post all of the information you want on why there is not a God. I know what I know and what I have seen and heard. I get down on my knees everyday and thank Christ for the wisdom to see his works in my life.

excellent story and if it works for you then have at it .
on the other hand it's totally subjective.
no atheist that I know considers human kind a supreme being of any kind.
I would say if we need a supreme to worship and deliver punishment ,we are not just in deep trouble but are fated to be treated as violent children forever or at least till imaginary rapture.

Here we can agree. Here and there I come across that sentiment from religious folks, this assumption that human-kind, as a whole, needs to have some higher power to worship. A spiritual father figure for the entire species.

Personally, I wouldn't be the least bit disappointed to discover that no such being exists. I don't feel an emptiness within me due to any lack of gods to worship. Life's pretty fulfilling even if taken at face value.

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

Allow me to start by clarifying that I am not a man of faith. I don't presume to know whether or not there's anything more to this existence than what I've observed, or even to know whether what I've observed is reality.

So assuming that the assumptions that sincere, Christian prayers backed by honest faith don't work is correct (and I know quite a few Christians who'd vehemently disagree based on experiences they've claimed to have had) and you've proved that the bible is fallible, how does it follow that you've disproven the existence of even the Judeo-Christian god? Consider the possibility that despite claims to infallibility and 100% divine inspiration, the bible, being written by man, is in fact riddled with mistakes, but that a good deal was actually inspired by the divine, which happens to be the being that, for the most part, the bible describes as God. I won't argue the likelihood of this scenario by any means, as I'm not a believer myself, I simply draw this illustration to point out that this proof that God is imaginary leaves doubt, even where Christianity is concerned.

The greater question is this: Assuming that this was undeniable proof that Christianity is false, how does that then disprove the existence of any god? There are infinite potential explanations for existence. Even if you had managed to strike one down beyond the shadow of a reasonable doubt, how does it follow that you've disproven every explanation involving a god?

As a side note, this burden of proof argument that keeps happening between the religious and the atheists is the silliest shit ever. The only way you're not making an assertion is if you accept the possibility of either (that there is a god or that there is not). If you say, there is a god, you've made an assertion and the burden of proving that assertion lies with you. If you say there is no god, you've also made an assertion and the burden of proof for -that- assertion lies with you. Quit trying to pawn your responsibilities off on each other, you lazy zealots.

Not the easiest narrative to follow; you sometimes seemed to be implying that I was doubting God? Anyway, we all live by certain axioms or truths that do not require repeated proof. I assume I exist and the person I am facing in a room exists. Given that, I have enough empirical evidence and reasoned evidence for God that I do not need to prove that to myself. Ever. If an atheist cannot acquiesce to the evidence then I attribute it to an unexplained blindness put there by who know what? Probably pride, the devil’s favorite weapon.

FYI, I am Catholic and we do not refer to Scripture as infallible, nor literal. It is the inspired Word of God, yes, we do refer to it as that. If there are paradoxes contained therein, it is for a purpose. If there are contradictions, I am pretty certain it is based on circumstance. The Book of Eccclesiastes says a time to build up, a time to tear down, a time to embrace, a time to shun embraces. Circumtstances and learned reason dictate the course.

PS – Cannot say I was charmed by your Milton Friedman reference. That has to appear on everyone of your posts?

The argument to which you've responded was actually making the point that God, even Christianity in particular, can't be disproved. You're clearly on the opposite end of the argument and, I must say, no less arrogant about it than the atheists.

If you see what you consider evidence of your God and that's enough for you to believe, more power to you. Assuming that anybody else who doesn't believe has been stricken with blindness because the evidence is just so obvious, however. . . that's some silly shit. You point out any piece of evidence of your God and I can offer you a plethora of alternate, potential explanations for that evidence. The only reason someone coming to a different conclusion from yours could have that conclusion attributed to blindness is that the evidence you've been party to proves your catholic faith beyond the shadow of a reasonable doubt.

Pretty sure if anybody had evidence that steep it'd be big news but, since you haven't offered up any specifics, I'll have to leave this at generalities.

P.S. - I put that quote in my sig because I like it, not because I thought you'd like it. Most devout Christians aren't big Doug Stanhope fans to begin with.

 

[The Professor]

I never could figure out why atheists are always so hell bent on convincing other people there is no God?? ..

I'm an atheists; I swear to God I am.

The title of the thread is “Proof that God is Imaginary;” however, the OP does not even attempt to prove the non-existence of a Supreme being. His/her entire argument is that parts of the Christian Bible cannot be believed. If everything the OP said were to be taken as absolute truth, the most one could conclude is that the Christian Bible contains elements which are either unbelievable or must be more fully explained in order to be believable.

I believe in God, although I will not define my perception of God; however, my God exists no matter what the Bible, the Qur'an or any other book says or doesn't say.

 

[pacer]

I'm confused. You say you are atheist and then you say you believe in God. Everyone perceives God differently for those who believe in God. So, that fact you believe in a God of your own perception/understanding would make you a believer, would it not?

 

[koshergrl]

Exactly.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Good book!

The Devil's Delusion: Atheism and its Scientific Pretensions Paperback
by David Berlinski (Author)

Better.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I never could figure out why atheists are always so hell bent on convincing other people there is no God?? ..

Actually, its the other way around.

You'll never open your door on a Saturday morning to a rude little granny, little kid in tow, loaded down with tracts they want you to read.

What's actually fascinating is that almost all cultures have had the need for a super being to believe in, lean on, blame and credit.

Seems like that's a very basic weakness that we humans all share.

It's not a weakness, Bro'.... It's a productive cost of our greatest gift: Sentience.



The thing that separates the Monkeys from the monkeys and other animals is that Monkeys understand that death is inevitable. Animals just deal with the next moment as it comes.

Man is an animal that dies very reluctantly its entire life, not just at the end. Various beliefs in life-after-death scenarios and a psyche that embraces religious beliefs makes evolutionary sense to me, considering how productive humans got as they learned to organize around common beliefs.

Say what you will about religion... without it, modern society would not be possible.

Religion taught humans to organize, the greedy industrialized the concept, and 10,000 years later, here we are.

A simple read of history tells the cost of Religion. Same can be said of the cost of Industrialization. WYGD?



Here's something to put in your pipe and smoke on... 'Religion' made 'Government' necessary.

​

 

[AVG-JOE]

Cool web site. Thanks.

Question for you: How many miracles would it take to convince you that the supernatural is real? One? Two?

Dude... if you're not convinced by the first 'miracle', you're still waiting for it.

Well if one reads between the lines they might consider something more. I.E., miracles are presented, documented and offered up as proof. The skeptic does not render an opinion and moves on, pretty much forgetting such an event ever occurred. This leaves the believer the task of presenting some other event or proof, where once again it is not disprove, but ignored. Then we hear sometime later "there is no evidence for God."

The point is, once someone BELIEVES they've seen a miracle, they're a 'believer'. It doesn't take two.

 

[daws101]

As a police officer for 20 years, I've seen and been near many, many people when they have passed from this earth. I have held broken bodies, held their face in my hands reaching through shattered windshields, held their hands and told them that they would be okay, even if I knew that they wouldn't. I held my 41 day old son in my arms while he passed away. And I sat holding her hand as the only woman I have ever loved slipped away to be with her father and the son we lost in heaven.

When someone dies, you can feel it. You don't even have to be looking and you can feel it when their soul slips from this earth into heaven or what ever you want to call it. I can't even describe it but it is something that is real and it is palpable.

I know of many instances as well of people who had tumors, cancers, sicknesses that should have taken their lives come from doctor visits only to report that those things are just gone. No sign. Nothing. Just gone and cured.

God is real and He is alive, working with His children each and every day. As an evangelical Christian I choose to believe that the Christian bible is the written word of God and that Jesus Christ was His living Son. But I also have nothing but respect and admiration for Catholics and Jewish followers of their faith. As an American, I don't care if you wish to worship door knobs, that is your right as a citizen.

As for athiests, I have no animosity because when I was young, I was a devoted athiest. I do pity athiests because they put their faith into a flawed organism as their supreme being. If man is the height of this universe and there is no more, then my friend, we are in deep trouble.

You can post all of the information you want on why there is not a God. I know what I know and what I have seen and heard. I get down on my knees everyday and thank Christ for the wisdom to see his works in my life.

excellent story and if it works for you then have at it .
on the other hand it's totally subjective.
no atheist that I know considers human kind a supreme being of any kind.
I would say if we need a supreme to worship and deliver punishment ,we are not just in deep trouble but are fated to be treated as violent children forever or at least till imaginary rapture.

Here we can agree. Here and there I come across that sentiment from religious folks, this assumption that human-kind, as a whole, needs to have some higher power to worship. A spiritual father figure for the entire species.

Personally, I wouldn't be the least bit disappointed to discover that no such being exists. I don't feel an emptiness within me due to any lack of gods to worship. Life's pretty fulfilling even if taken at face value.

that's as it should be ...we make meaning in life it's not given to us.

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

How does God know who he really is? If he is like us, how can he be sure and not be mixed up or gotten confused? That's a long time for oversights to occur.

 

[freedombecki]

I'm confused. You say you are atheist and then you say you believe in God. Everyone perceives God differently for those who believe in God. So, that fact you believe in a God of your own perception/understanding would make you a believer, would it not?

He was just making a joke, pacer. Some very enchanting and delightful speakers begin their case with a joke. "I swear to God I am an atheist," is such a statement. It was meant to be amusing.

He believes in God, doesn't wish to go into detail here to cause a stir or offend. It's just that he was trying to break a little ice. It wakes up the students in an auditorium and makes them wish to listen once they "get it."

Get it?