If God doesn't exist...

[ding]

That "intervention" could very well be "God" popping his face onto the worldwide sky and saying "Here I am! Now you know! Believe in <insert religion here> or I will smite you all!"

That would certainly work!!

But a bit more likely would be... aliens arriving and teaching us far more advanced concepts of spirituality and the universe, before we blow ourselves up over petty lies.

You have been given the rarest gift of all. It is sad that you don't appreciate it more.

What gift is that ? Please explain?

Beings that know and create are the rarest and most precious gift in the universe. Beings that know and create are the most complex creation in all of creation. You could have been a rock instead.

 

[ding]

Don't be silly, Christianity has been the greatest force for good in the history of mankind.

Greatest force for good??? The religion that promotes slavery, bigotry, racism, witch burnings, the crusades, the holy wars, the inquisition... I could go on. Christianity also homophobic, misogynistic, anti-scientific and anti-intellectual, it preys on the ignorant, the innocent. It encourages acceptance of truly bad things while focusing on imaginary evils. There is way to many more to list. I will acknowledge that Christianity has done some good things for some individuals but as a whole it has done more harm.

Yes, greatest force for good. Western Civilization was built upon the foundation of Christianity.

Christianity promotes the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness, humility, chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience and kindness. Christianity is responsible for the creation of wonderful charities and organizations which serve the betterment of man. Christians and Christian institutions are usually the first source of literacy, education, and healthcare in the poorer regions.Christians and Christian institutions have been the source of abundant human services from hospitals, orphanages, nursing homes, and schools, to advocacy on behalf of those with no voice, to supporting cultural outreaches, and seeking always to find ways in which to protect and promote human life and its authentic flourishing. Christianity gave us the concept of subsidiarity and has done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility Christianity teaches accountability and responsibility. Christianity teaches that we have a choice in how we behave and that actions have consequences. Christianity inspires a sense of wonder in nature and the universe and helps us feel connected to one another and to nature through regular community gatherings. Christianity helps us feel less alone in the world by binding the community together. Christianity serves to ennoble the human spirit and inspires love, peace and happiness. Christianity brings order to our lives by promoting the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness and humility. Christianity brings comfort to the terminally ill and can act as a source of hope for the oppressed. Christianity teaches that we can transform ourselves. That it is possible to change for the better. Christian values were the foundation which Western Civilization was built upon. No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the Catholic Church. Modern science was born in the Catholic Church. Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market. The Catholic Church invented the university. Western law grew out of Church canon law. The Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life. The Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources. Religion gave us great thinkers, leaders and humanitarians. Christianity gave us America. Christianity gave us incredible artwork, music and architecture. Christianity has spread democracy throughout the world. Christians fought other Christians in WWII to end their aggression and rebuilt Europe and Japan after WWII. Christians put a man on the moon and ended the cold war.

 

[Divine Wind]

I can't help but to believe the truth is better than fiction.

Its OK you believe there's a creator. Is that all you believe? Seems benign enough.

And I'm just telling you what I believe. Can't I be passionate about what I believe? What harm am I causing telling people what I think? Are you afraid of opposing views?

Agreed about truth over fiction.

I believe there is more to existence then meets the eye. I certainly believe we're more than mobile meat computers running around only according to our programming.

No worries about your beliefs and I appreciate opposing views. Like everyone else, you are free to believe as you wish and to state those beliefs. It's my freedom to call out anyone who claims they know for a fact their beliefs are correct and everyone else's are wrong.

 

[BreezeWood]

Yes thank you! It's theists that make me have to admit I can't know so I can't truly be an atheist. In that sense I'm just being honest and admitting I don't know. When I say I'm an agnostic atheist I'm being nice and giving in. I'm not being stubborn or acting like I know there isn't a creator.

But everything tells me there is no God. And if there is he didn't visit. He isn't the character that visited Mary mo Jo or moses. He doesn't care if you believe and doesn't send people who don't believe Mary Jo mo or mo to hell. That I'm certain as can be

You don't act like you don't know.

You would have to be a God yourself because God could be anywhere in our universe or even outside our universe tending to his other potatoes in his garden of universes.

The point I want to make is it doesn't matter if you believe because that kind of petty God is soooo man made. If there's a god be nice and you'll have a conversation with him in the end.

Funny thing is I will confidently defend myself when I meet your God. You'll be embarrassed for jacking off not me.

And I'm not a thief murderer or liar.

Well, I've lied. 2 out of 3 ain't bad

No. You would not have to be a god yourself. You just need to be objective.

I don't believe in that kind of a petty God. That's how you see God.

Trust me, when your time comes, you will be singing a different tune. When everyone fails you and you fail yourself, you will have no where else to turn.

I've seen atheists die and I've seen how theists react to people dying. As much as I'll be afraid and want there to be a heaven, I just don't believe.

If I meet God I'll thank him for the wonderful life

Is There One Sound/valid Syllogistic Argument For The Existence Of God?

Why waste your life trying to fight and argue with Almighty God?

"Do you believe in a personal God?"

Christian values

Has science proved there is no God?

How do the non-spiritual explain it?

Why do the God-haters persist?

Is There One Sound/valid Syllogistic Argument For The Existence Of God?

Is There One Sound/valid Syllogistic Argument For The Existence Of God?

Christian values

Do gods exist?

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them. (Romans 1:18-32 ESV)

.

For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

nothing concrete nor mention of the desert religion's written scriptures ...


and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever!

there is a good reason their scriptures are not referenced from etchings of the time ...


Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

is the above perceived by christians, absorbed by reading their book or is there evidence they can verify their religion is truthful, or - - > and (they) exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man.

.

.

 

[Tuatara]

Don't be silly, Christianity has been the greatest force for good in the history of mankind.

Greatest force for good??? The religion that promotes slavery, bigotry, racism, witch burnings, the crusades, the holy wars, the inquisition... I could go on. Christianity also homophobic, misogynistic, anti-scientific and anti-intellectual, it preys on the ignorant, the innocent. It encourages acceptance of truly bad things while focusing on imaginary evils. There is way to many more to list. I will acknowledge that Christianity has done some good things for some individuals but as a whole it has done more harm.

Yes, greatest force for good. Western Civilization was built upon the foundation of Christianity.

Christianity promotes the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness, humility, chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience and kindness.

This is not true. One needs to look no further than the Christians on this forum to see that this statement is completely false.

Christianity is responsible for the creation of wonderful charities and organizations which serve the betterment of man.

Charities and organizations which serve the betterment of man have been around long before Christianity was around. Most of the biggest corrupt charitable organizations have been Christian ones.

Christians and Christian institutions are usually the first source of literacy, education, and healthcare in the poorer regions.

Another lie. In fact when we look at countries with the highest literacy rates we see that the countries with large Christian influence are absent from the list.
25 Countries With The Highest Literacy Rates
Countries with the best healthcare and education for all and not just the rich show up on countries without Christian influence throughout every list polled.As for being the first source, this is misleading. We know Christian ministries will set up schools and shelters in third world countries but not without a price. People must convert to Christianity to usually get access to books, healthcare, clothing, toys and food in these instances.

Christians and Christian institutions have been the source of abundant human services from hospitals, orphanages, nursing homes, and schools, to advocacy on behalf of those with no voice, to supporting cultural outreaches, and seeking always to find ways in which to protect and promote human life and its authentic flourishing.

I don't think you would want to list orphanages with all the history of abuse conducted by those Christian protectors of children. Supporting Cultural outreaches?? Are you kidding me? Like how Christians supported the native population by taking their children away from their parents and placing them in residential schools where isolation, humiliation , denigration and abuse were widespread.

Christianity gave us the concept of subsidiarity and has done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility

Not one Christian gets their morality and civility form the bible. It comes from other influences. This I can prove. Other nations where other religions and non-religion have more influence usually have the same morality and civility.

Christianity teaches accountability and responsibility.

Again, these traits were around long before Christianity. Loot at the huge amount of Christians and Christian leaders that have shown zero accountability and responsibility.

Christianity teaches that we have a choice in how we behave and that actions have consequences. Christianity inspires a sense of wonder in nature and the universe and helps us feel connected to one another and to nature through regular community gatherings. Christianity helps us feel less alone in the world by binding the community together. Christianity serves to ennoble the human spirit and inspires love, peace and happiness. Christianity brings order to our lives by promoting the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness and humility. Christianity brings comfort to the terminally ill and can act as a source of hope for the oppressed. Christianity teaches that we can transform ourselves. That it is possible to change for the better. Christian values were the foundation which Western Civilization was built upon. No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the Catholic Church. Modern science was born in the Catholic Church. Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market. The Catholic Church invented the university. Western law grew out of Church canon law. The Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life. The Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources. Religion gave us great thinkers, leaders and humanitarians. Christianity gave us America. Christianity gave us incredible artwork, music and architecture. Christianity has spread democracy throughout the world. Christians fought other Christians in WWII to end their aggression and rebuilt Europe and Japan after WWII. Christians put a man on the moon and ended the cold war.

Because of time constraints I will argue these points later. Off to work.

 

[Mudda]

Don't be silly, Christianity has been the greatest force for good in the history of mankind.

Greatest force for good??? The religion that promotes slavery, bigotry, racism, witch burnings, the crusades, the holy wars, the inquisition... I could go on. Christianity also homophobic, misogynistic, anti-scientific and anti-intellectual, it preys on the ignorant, the innocent. It encourages acceptance of truly bad things while focusing on imaginary evils. There is way to many more to list. I will acknowledge that Christianity has done some good things for some individuals but as a whole it has done more harm.

Yes, greatest force for good. Western Civilization was built upon the foundation of Christianity.

Christianity promotes the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness, humility, chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience and kindness. Christianity is responsible for the creation of wonderful charities and organizations which serve the betterment of man. Christians and Christian institutions are usually the first source of literacy, education, and healthcare in the poorer regions.Christians and Christian institutions have been the source of abundant human services from hospitals, orphanages, nursing homes, and schools, to advocacy on behalf of those with no voice, to supporting cultural outreaches, and seeking always to find ways in which to protect and promote human life and its authentic flourishing. Christianity gave us the concept of subsidiarity and has done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility Christianity teaches accountability and responsibility. Christianity teaches that we have a choice in how we behave and that actions have consequences. Christianity inspires a sense of wonder in nature and the universe and helps us feel connected to one another and to nature through regular community gatherings. Christianity helps us feel less alone in the world by binding the community together. Christianity serves to ennoble the human spirit and inspires love, peace and happiness. Christianity brings order to our lives by promoting the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness and humility. Christianity brings comfort to the terminally ill and can act as a source of hope for the oppressed. Christianity teaches that we can transform ourselves. That it is possible to change for the better. Christian values were the foundation which Western Civilization was built upon. No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the Catholic Church. Modern science was born in the Catholic Church. Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market. The Catholic Church invented the university. Western law grew out of Church canon law. The Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life. The Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources. Religion gave us great thinkers, leaders and humanitarians. Christianity gave us America. Christianity gave us incredible artwork, music and architecture. Christianity has spread democracy throughout the world. Christians fought other Christians in WWII to end their aggression and rebuilt Europe and Japan after WWII. Christians put a man on the moon and ended the cold war.

Christians dropped 2 atomic bombs on Japan. Christians also destroyed Iraq and Afghanistan. And the Christian god let AIDS happen. Should I go on?

 

[sealybobo]

You don't act like you don't know.

You would have to be a God yourself because God could be anywhere in our universe or even outside our universe tending to his other potatoes in his garden of universes.

The point I want to make is it doesn't matter if you believe because that kind of petty God is soooo man made. If there's a god be nice and you'll have a conversation with him in the end.

Funny thing is I will confidently defend myself when I meet your God. You'll be embarrassed for jacking off not me.

And I'm not a thief murderer or liar.

Well, I've lied. 2 out of 3 ain't bad

No. You would not have to be a god yourself. You just need to be objective.

I don't believe in that kind of a petty God. That's how you see God.

Trust me, when your time comes, you will be singing a different tune. When everyone fails you and you fail yourself, you will have no where else to turn.

I've seen atheists die and I've seen how theists react to people dying. As much as I'll be afraid and want there to be a heaven, I just don't believe.

If I meet God I'll thank him for the wonderful life

Is There One Sound/valid Syllogistic Argument For The Existence Of God?

Why waste your life trying to fight and argue with Almighty God?

"Do you believe in a personal God?"

Christian values

Has science proved there is no God?

How do the non-spiritual explain it?

Why do the God-haters persist?

Is There One Sound/valid Syllogistic Argument For The Existence Of God?

Is There One Sound/valid Syllogistic Argument For The Existence Of God?

Christian values

Do gods exist?

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them. (Romans 1:18-32 ESV)

.

For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

nothing concrete nor mention of the desert religion's written scriptures ...


and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever!

there is a good reason their scriptures are not referenced from etchings of the time ...


Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

is the above perceived by christians, absorbed by reading their book or is there evidence they can verify their religion is truthful, or - - > and (they) exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man.

.

.

It's quotes like "No one comes to the Father except through me." that tell me Christianity is just another cult.

 

[sealybobo]

Don't be silly, Christianity has been the greatest force for good in the history of mankind.

Greatest force for good??? The religion that promotes slavery, bigotry, racism, witch burnings, the crusades, the holy wars, the inquisition... I could go on. Christianity also homophobic, misogynistic, anti-scientific and anti-intellectual, it preys on the ignorant, the innocent. It encourages acceptance of truly bad things while focusing on imaginary evils. There is way to many more to list. I will acknowledge that Christianity has done some good things for some individuals but as a whole it has done more harm.

Yes, greatest force for good. Western Civilization was built upon the foundation of Christianity.

Christianity promotes the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness, humility, chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience and kindness.

This is not true. One needs to look no further than the Christians on this forum to see that this statement is completely false.

Christianity is responsible for the creation of wonderful charities and organizations which serve the betterment of man.

Charities and organizations which serve the betterment of man have been around long before Christianity was around. Most of the biggest corrupt charitable organizations have been Christian ones.

Christians and Christian institutions are usually the first source of literacy, education, and healthcare in the poorer regions.

Another lie. In fact when we look at countries with the highest literacy rates we see that the countries with large Christian influence are absent from the list.
25 Countries With The Highest Literacy Rates
Countries with the best healthcare and education for all and not just the rich show up on countries without Christian influence throughout every list polled.As for being the first source, this is misleading. We know Christian ministries will set up schools and shelters in third world countries but not without a price. People must convert to Christianity to usually get access to books, healthcare, clothing, toys and food in these instances.

Christians and Christian institutions have been the source of abundant human services from hospitals, orphanages, nursing homes, and schools, to advocacy on behalf of those with no voice, to supporting cultural outreaches, and seeking always to find ways in which to protect and promote human life and its authentic flourishing.

I don't think you would want to list orphanages with all the history of abuse conducted by those Christian protectors of children. Supporting Cultural outreaches?? Are you kidding me? Like how Christians supported the native population by taking their children away from their parents and placing them in residential schools where isolation, humiliation , denigration and abuse were widespread.

Christianity gave us the concept of subsidiarity and has done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility

Not one Christian gets their morality and civility form the bible. It comes from other influences. This I can prove. Other nations where other religions and non-religion have more influence usually have the same morality and civility.

Christianity teaches accountability and responsibility.

Again, these traits were around long before Christianity. Loot at the huge amount of Christians and Christian leaders that have shown zero accountability and responsibility.

Christianity teaches that we have a choice in how we behave and that actions have consequences. Christianity inspires a sense of wonder in nature and the universe and helps us feel connected to one another and to nature through regular community gatherings. Christianity helps us feel less alone in the world by binding the community together. Christianity serves to ennoble the human spirit and inspires love, peace and happiness. Christianity brings order to our lives by promoting the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness and humility. Christianity brings comfort to the terminally ill and can act as a source of hope for the oppressed. Christianity teaches that we can transform ourselves. That it is possible to change for the better. Christian values were the foundation which Western Civilization was built upon. No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the Catholic Church. Modern science was born in the Catholic Church. Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market. The Catholic Church invented the university. Western law grew out of Church canon law. The Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life. The Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources. Religion gave us great thinkers, leaders and humanitarians. Christianity gave us America. Christianity gave us incredible artwork, music and architecture. Christianity has spread democracy throughout the world. Christians fought other Christians in WWII to end their aggression and rebuilt Europe and Japan after WWII. Christians put a man on the moon and ended the cold war.

Because of time constraints I will argue these points later. Off to work.

Great point. Ding wrote: Christianity promotes the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness, humility, chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience and kindness.

Do USMB Christians think that's how they come off? Because they don't.

 

[sealybobo]

Don't be silly, Christianity has been the greatest force for good in the history of mankind.

Greatest force for good??? The religion that promotes slavery, bigotry, racism, witch burnings, the crusades, the holy wars, the inquisition... I could go on. Christianity also homophobic, misogynistic, anti-scientific and anti-intellectual, it preys on the ignorant, the innocent. It encourages acceptance of truly bad things while focusing on imaginary evils. There is way to many more to list. I will acknowledge that Christianity has done some good things for some individuals but as a whole it has done more harm.

Yes, greatest force for good. Western Civilization was built upon the foundation of Christianity.

Christianity promotes the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness, humility, chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience and kindness.

This is not true. One needs to look no further than the Christians on this forum to see that this statement is completely false.

Christianity is responsible for the creation of wonderful charities and organizations which serve the betterment of man.

Charities and organizations which serve the betterment of man have been around long before Christianity was around. Most of the biggest corrupt charitable organizations have been Christian ones.

Christians and Christian institutions are usually the first source of literacy, education, and healthcare in the poorer regions.

Another lie. In fact when we look at countries with the highest literacy rates we see that the countries with large Christian influence are absent from the list.
25 Countries With The Highest Literacy Rates
Countries with the best healthcare and education for all and not just the rich show up on countries without Christian influence throughout every list polled.As for being the first source, this is misleading. We know Christian ministries will set up schools and shelters in third world countries but not without a price. People must convert to Christianity to usually get access to books, healthcare, clothing, toys and food in these instances.

Christians and Christian institutions have been the source of abundant human services from hospitals, orphanages, nursing homes, and schools, to advocacy on behalf of those with no voice, to supporting cultural outreaches, and seeking always to find ways in which to protect and promote human life and its authentic flourishing.

I don't think you would want to list orphanages with all the history of abuse conducted by those Christian protectors of children. Supporting Cultural outreaches?? Are you kidding me? Like how Christians supported the native population by taking their children away from their parents and placing them in residential schools where isolation, humiliation , denigration and abuse were widespread.

Christianity gave us the concept of subsidiarity and has done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility

Not one Christian gets their morality and civility form the bible. It comes from other influences. This I can prove. Other nations where other religions and non-religion have more influence usually have the same morality and civility.

Christianity teaches accountability and responsibility.

Again, these traits were around long before Christianity. Loot at the huge amount of Christians and Christian leaders that have shown zero accountability and responsibility.

Christianity teaches that we have a choice in how we behave and that actions have consequences. Christianity inspires a sense of wonder in nature and the universe and helps us feel connected to one another and to nature through regular community gatherings. Christianity helps us feel less alone in the world by binding the community together. Christianity serves to ennoble the human spirit and inspires love, peace and happiness. Christianity brings order to our lives by promoting the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness and humility. Christianity brings comfort to the terminally ill and can act as a source of hope for the oppressed. Christianity teaches that we can transform ourselves. That it is possible to change for the better. Christian values were the foundation which Western Civilization was built upon. No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the Catholic Church. Modern science was born in the Catholic Church. Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market. The Catholic Church invented the university. Western law grew out of Church canon law. The Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life. The Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources. Religion gave us great thinkers, leaders and humanitarians. Christianity gave us America. Christianity gave us incredible artwork, music and architecture. Christianity has spread democracy throughout the world. Christians fought other Christians in WWII to end their aggression and rebuilt Europe and Japan after WWII. Christians put a man on the moon and ended the cold war.

Because of time constraints I will argue these points later. Off to work.

Atheism is correlated with better scientific literacy, lower poverty rates, higher literacy rates, higher average incomes, less violence, lower divorce rates, lower teen pregnancy rates, lower STD infection rates, lower crime rates and lower homicide rates.

Studies on happiness outside of predominantly religious countries (eg. the United States) find little to no correlation between happiness and religious belief. This corresponds with evidence which shows social and community bonding, rather than spiritual engagement, explains why religious people report greater satisfaction with life.

 

[ding]

Don't be silly, Christianity has been the greatest force for good in the history of mankind.

Greatest force for good??? The religion that promotes slavery, bigotry, racism, witch burnings, the crusades, the holy wars, the inquisition... I could go on. Christianity also homophobic, misogynistic, anti-scientific and anti-intellectual, it preys on the ignorant, the innocent. It encourages acceptance of truly bad things while focusing on imaginary evils. There is way to many more to list. I will acknowledge that Christianity has done some good things for some individuals but as a whole it has done more harm.

Yes, greatest force for good. Western Civilization was built upon the foundation of Christianity.

Christianity promotes the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness, humility, chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience and kindness. Christianity is responsible for the creation of wonderful charities and organizations which serve the betterment of man. Christians and Christian institutions are usually the first source of literacy, education, and healthcare in the poorer regions.Christians and Christian institutions have been the source of abundant human services from hospitals, orphanages, nursing homes, and schools, to advocacy on behalf of those with no voice, to supporting cultural outreaches, and seeking always to find ways in which to protect and promote human life and its authentic flourishing. Christianity gave us the concept of subsidiarity and has done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility Christianity teaches accountability and responsibility. Christianity teaches that we have a choice in how we behave and that actions have consequences. Christianity inspires a sense of wonder in nature and the universe and helps us feel connected to one another and to nature through regular community gatherings. Christianity helps us feel less alone in the world by binding the community together. Christianity serves to ennoble the human spirit and inspires love, peace and happiness. Christianity brings order to our lives by promoting the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness and humility. Christianity brings comfort to the terminally ill and can act as a source of hope for the oppressed. Christianity teaches that we can transform ourselves. That it is possible to change for the better. Christian values were the foundation which Western Civilization was built upon. No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the Catholic Church. Modern science was born in the Catholic Church. Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market. The Catholic Church invented the university. Western law grew out of Church canon law. The Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life. The Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources. Religion gave us great thinkers, leaders and humanitarians. Christianity gave us America. Christianity gave us incredible artwork, music and architecture. Christianity has spread democracy throughout the world. Christians fought other Christians in WWII to end their aggression and rebuilt Europe and Japan after WWII. Christians put a man on the moon and ended the cold war.

Christians dropped 2 atomic bombs on Japan. Christians also destroyed Iraq and Afghanistan. And the Christian god let AIDS happen. Should I go on?

Sure, and they should not have rationalized that it was a good thing. What's your point?

You'll have to take that aids thingee up with God. Make sure to give Him an earful when you do.

 

[ding]

Don't be silly, Christianity has been the greatest force for good in the history of mankind.

Greatest force for good??? The religion that promotes slavery, bigotry, racism, witch burnings, the crusades, the holy wars, the inquisition... I could go on. Christianity also homophobic, misogynistic, anti-scientific and anti-intellectual, it preys on the ignorant, the innocent. It encourages acceptance of truly bad things while focusing on imaginary evils. There is way to many more to list. I will acknowledge that Christianity has done some good things for some individuals but as a whole it has done more harm.

Yes, greatest force for good. Western Civilization was built upon the foundation of Christianity.

Christianity promotes the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness, humility, chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience and kindness.

This is not true. One needs to look no further than the Christians on this forum to see that this statement is completely false.

Christianity is responsible for the creation of wonderful charities and organizations which serve the betterment of man.

Charities and organizations which serve the betterment of man have been around long before Christianity was around. Most of the biggest corrupt charitable organizations have been Christian ones.

Christians and Christian institutions are usually the first source of literacy, education, and healthcare in the poorer regions.

Another lie. In fact when we look at countries with the highest literacy rates we see that the countries with large Christian influence are absent from the list.
25 Countries With The Highest Literacy Rates
Countries with the best healthcare and education for all and not just the rich show up on countries without Christian influence throughout every list polled.As for being the first source, this is misleading. We know Christian ministries will set up schools and shelters in third world countries but not without a price. People must convert to Christianity to usually get access to books, healthcare, clothing, toys and food in these instances.

Christians and Christian institutions have been the source of abundant human services from hospitals, orphanages, nursing homes, and schools, to advocacy on behalf of those with no voice, to supporting cultural outreaches, and seeking always to find ways in which to protect and promote human life and its authentic flourishing.

I don't think you would want to list orphanages with all the history of abuse conducted by those Christian protectors of children. Supporting Cultural outreaches?? Are you kidding me? Like how Christians supported the native population by taking their children away from their parents and placing them in residential schools where isolation, humiliation , denigration and abuse were widespread.

Christianity gave us the concept of subsidiarity and has done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility

Not one Christian gets their morality and civility form the bible. It comes from other influences. This I can prove. Other nations where other religions and non-religion have more influence usually have the same morality and civility.

Christianity teaches accountability and responsibility.

Again, these traits were around long before Christianity. Loot at the huge amount of Christians and Christian leaders that have shown zero accountability and responsibility.

Christianity teaches that we have a choice in how we behave and that actions have consequences. Christianity inspires a sense of wonder in nature and the universe and helps us feel connected to one another and to nature through regular community gatherings. Christianity helps us feel less alone in the world by binding the community together. Christianity serves to ennoble the human spirit and inspires love, peace and happiness. Christianity brings order to our lives by promoting the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness and humility. Christianity brings comfort to the terminally ill and can act as a source of hope for the oppressed. Christianity teaches that we can transform ourselves. That it is possible to change for the better. Christian values were the foundation which Western Civilization was built upon. No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the Catholic Church. Modern science was born in the Catholic Church. Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market. The Catholic Church invented the university. Western law grew out of Church canon law. The Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life. The Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources. Religion gave us great thinkers, leaders and humanitarians. Christianity gave us America. Christianity gave us incredible artwork, music and architecture. Christianity has spread democracy throughout the world. Christians fought other Christians in WWII to end their aggression and rebuilt Europe and Japan after WWII. Christians put a man on the moon and ended the cold war.

Because of time constraints I will argue these points later. Off to work.

Path not taken, amigo. You are comparing an idealized world that never existed. It would have been worse, trust me.

 

[ding]

You don't act like you don't know.

You would have to be a God yourself because God could be anywhere in our universe or even outside our universe tending to his other potatoes in his garden of universes.

The point I want to make is it doesn't matter if you believe because that kind of petty God is soooo man made. If there's a god be nice and you'll have a conversation with him in the end.

Funny thing is I will confidently defend myself when I meet your God. You'll be embarrassed for jacking off not me.

And I'm not a thief murderer or liar.

Well, I've lied. 2 out of 3 ain't bad

No. You would not have to be a god yourself. You just need to be objective.

I don't believe in that kind of a petty God. That's how you see God.

Trust me, when your time comes, you will be singing a different tune. When everyone fails you and you fail yourself, you will have no where else to turn.

I've seen atheists die and I've seen how theists react to people dying. As much as I'll be afraid and want there to be a heaven, I just don't believe.

If I meet God I'll thank him for the wonderful life

Is There One Sound/valid Syllogistic Argument For The Existence Of God?

Why waste your life trying to fight and argue with Almighty God?

"Do you believe in a personal God?"

Christian values

Has science proved there is no God?

How do the non-spiritual explain it?

Why do the God-haters persist?

Is There One Sound/valid Syllogistic Argument For The Existence Of God?

Is There One Sound/valid Syllogistic Argument For The Existence Of God?

Christian values

Do gods exist?

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them. (Romans 1:18-32 ESV)

.

For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

nothing concrete nor mention of the desert religion's written scriptures ...


and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever!

there is a good reason their scriptures are not referenced from etchings of the time ...


Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

is the above perceived by christians, absorbed by reading their book or is there evidence they can verify their religion is truthful, or - - > and (they) exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man.

.

.

What exactly is your point?

 

[BreezeWood]

You would have to be a God yourself because God could be anywhere in our universe or even outside our universe tending to his other potatoes in his garden of universes.

The point I want to make is it doesn't matter if you believe because that kind of petty God is soooo man made. If there's a god be nice and you'll have a conversation with him in the end.

Funny thing is I will confidently defend myself when I meet your God. You'll be embarrassed for jacking off not me.

And I'm not a thief murderer or liar.

Well, I've lied. 2 out of 3 ain't bad

No. You would not have to be a god yourself. You just need to be objective.

I don't believe in that kind of a petty God. That's how you see God.

Trust me, when your time comes, you will be singing a different tune. When everyone fails you and you fail yourself, you will have no where else to turn.

I've seen atheists die and I've seen how theists react to people dying. As much as I'll be afraid and want there to be a heaven, I just don't believe.

If I meet God I'll thank him for the wonderful life

Is There One Sound/valid Syllogistic Argument For The Existence Of God?

Why waste your life trying to fight and argue with Almighty God?

"Do you believe in a personal God?"

Christian values

Has science proved there is no God?

How do the non-spiritual explain it?

Why do the God-haters persist?

Is There One Sound/valid Syllogistic Argument For The Existence Of God?

Is There One Sound/valid Syllogistic Argument For The Existence Of God?

Christian values

Do gods exist?

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them. (Romans 1:18-32 ESV)

.

For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

nothing concrete nor mention of the desert religion's written scriptures ...


and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever!

there is a good reason their scriptures are not referenced from etchings of the time ...


Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

is the above perceived by christians, absorbed by reading their book or is there evidence they can verify their religion is truthful, or - - > and (they) exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man.

.

.

What exactly is your point?

.

What exactly is your point?

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.


the latter part of the quote is a fallacy in truth whether made up in the 4th century or by Jesus makes no difference. its desired meaning is the reason for the destructive history of christianity over centuries by those that wrote it. to distort the message from antiquity meant as a guidance for humanity.

Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani - makes Jesus no less a martyr were the true story ever told.

.

 

[Tuatara]

...continued

Christianity inspires a sense of wonder in nature and the universe and helps us feel connected to one another and to nature through regular community gatherings.

How do regular community gatherings install a sense of wonder in nature and the universe. Do people go to church to talk about Quasars, white dwarfs and Black Holes and describe in intricate detail developments of animal behaviour or fauna and flora through botany?

Christianity helps us feel less alone in the world by binding the community together.

Unless you are not part of their clique. Not one of the residents Christians attended the winter solstice celebration here. Join their religion and they are open arms. If you don't you might as well be a leper.

Christianity serves to ennoble the human spirit and inspires love, peace and happiness.

By dropping bombs on nations that have people from mostly other religions.

Christianity brings order to our lives by promoting the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness and humility.

Yet most Christians do not practice these traits as observed here in the forums and in real life. Do you think a real Christian would actually vote for the likes of someone like Donald Trump or George Bush?

Christianity brings comfort to the terminally ill

By telling them they are going to see the big sky daddy in Heaven. All religions promise a better world after death. Christianity does not hold a monopoly on that. Sometimes the best comfort for the terminally ill is the "humane" practice of assisted suicide.

and can act as a source of hope for the oppressed.

What if it is the Christians doing the oppression?
[/QUOTE]Christianity teaches that we can transform ourselves.[/QUOTE] You mean into another gender. Or perhaps another sexual persuasion? Or to another religion? Or to give up Religion. These would certainly be considered transforming oneself.

[/QUOTE]That it is possible to change for the better.[/QUOTE]Was somebody advocating against personal growth. That we should stay exactly like we were when we were 15.

Christian values were the foundation which Western Civilization was built upon.

Some, not all Christian values were borrowed from previous religions and cultures. Some Christian values like slavery and corporal punishment are fading. Some Christians values never materialized, like stoning to death those who work on Sundays or those who wear 2 types of cloth.

No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the Catholic Church. Modern science was born in the Catholic Church. Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market. The Catholic Church invented the university. Western law grew out of Church canon law. The Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life.

Oh dear, the catholic church. Watch this

or this

The Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources.

It was the same religion that brought slavery to the Western Civilization. It's even mentioned in their fallible holy book. You've seen the quotes.

[/QUOTE]Religion gave us great thinkers, leaders and humanitarians.[/QUOTE]Yes, all religions did that. Even non-religions. [/QUOTE]Christianity gave us America.[/QUOTE]Ahh, NO. Christianity isn't even mentioned. Most of the founding fathers were deists. Not Christians. Read their quotes.
Founding Father Quotes on Religion

They were a Christianity gave us incredible artwork, music and architecture. Christianity has spread democracy throughout the world.

Non Christians have done the same. Please try again.

[/QUOTE]Christians fought other Christians in WWII to end their aggression and rebuilt Europe and Japan after WWII.[/QUOTE]
Yes, some Christians were Nazis and fascists. What is the point? Christians fought along every other religion and non-religion in WW2.
[/QUOTE]Christians put a man on the moon [/QUOTE]Many of the members of NASA were atheists and agnostics. There were also many other religions present in employees of NASA.
[/QUOTE]and ended the cold war.[/QUOTE]It seems to be escalating again. I don't think the cold war ended out of religious ideologies but from political and economic traits.

 

[ding]

Don't be silly, Christianity has been the greatest force for good in the history of mankind.

Greatest force for good??? The religion that promotes slavery, bigotry, racism, witch burnings, the crusades, the holy wars, the inquisition... I could go on. Christianity also homophobic, misogynistic, anti-scientific and anti-intellectual, it preys on the ignorant, the innocent. It encourages acceptance of truly bad things while focusing on imaginary evils. There is way to many more to list. I will acknowledge that Christianity has done some good things for some individuals but as a whole it has done more harm.

Yes, greatest force for good. Western Civilization was built upon the foundation of Christianity.

Christianity promotes the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness, humility, chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience and kindness.

This is not true. One needs to look no further than the Christians on this forum to see that this statement is completely false.

Christianity is responsible for the creation of wonderful charities and organizations which serve the betterment of man.

Charities and organizations which serve the betterment of man have been around long before Christianity was around. Most of the biggest corrupt charitable organizations have been Christian ones.

Christians and Christian institutions are usually the first source of literacy, education, and healthcare in the poorer regions.

Another lie. In fact when we look at countries with the highest literacy rates we see that the countries with large Christian influence are absent from the list.
25 Countries With The Highest Literacy Rates
Countries with the best healthcare and education for all and not just the rich show up on countries without Christian influence throughout every list polled.As for being the first source, this is misleading. We know Christian ministries will set up schools and shelters in third world countries but not without a price. People must convert to Christianity to usually get access to books, healthcare, clothing, toys and food in these instances.

Christians and Christian institutions have been the source of abundant human services from hospitals, orphanages, nursing homes, and schools, to advocacy on behalf of those with no voice, to supporting cultural outreaches, and seeking always to find ways in which to protect and promote human life and its authentic flourishing.

I don't think you would want to list orphanages with all the history of abuse conducted by those Christian protectors of children. Supporting Cultural outreaches?? Are you kidding me? Like how Christians supported the native population by taking their children away from their parents and placing them in residential schools where isolation, humiliation , denigration and abuse were widespread.

Christianity gave us the concept of subsidiarity and has done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility

Not one Christian gets their morality and civility form the bible. It comes from other influences. This I can prove. Other nations where other religions and non-religion have more influence usually have the same morality and civility.

Christianity teaches accountability and responsibility.

Again, these traits were around long before Christianity. Loot at the huge amount of Christians and Christian leaders that have shown zero accountability and responsibility.

Christianity teaches that we have a choice in how we behave and that actions have consequences. Christianity inspires a sense of wonder in nature and the universe and helps us feel connected to one another and to nature through regular community gatherings. Christianity helps us feel less alone in the world by binding the community together. Christianity serves to ennoble the human spirit and inspires love, peace and happiness. Christianity brings order to our lives by promoting the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness and humility. Christianity brings comfort to the terminally ill and can act as a source of hope for the oppressed. Christianity teaches that we can transform ourselves. That it is possible to change for the better. Christian values were the foundation which Western Civilization was built upon. No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the Catholic Church. Modern science was born in the Catholic Church. Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market. The Catholic Church invented the university. Western law grew out of Church canon law. The Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life. The Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources. Religion gave us great thinkers, leaders and humanitarians. Christianity gave us America. Christianity gave us incredible artwork, music and architecture. Christianity has spread democracy throughout the world. Christians fought other Christians in WWII to end their aggression and rebuilt Europe and Japan after WWII. Christians put a man on the moon and ended the cold war.

Because of time constraints I will argue these points later. Off to work.

Atheism is correlated with better scientific literacy, lower poverty rates, higher literacy rates, higher average incomes, less violence, lower divorce rates, lower teen pregnancy rates, lower STD infection rates, lower crime rates and lower homicide rates.

Studies on happiness outside of predominantly religious countries (eg. the United States) find little to no correlation between happiness and religious belief. This corresponds with evidence which shows social and community bonding, rather than spiritual engagement, explains why religious people report greater satisfaction with life.

That hasn't been my observation on these boards and in life in general.

 

[ding]

...continued

Christianity inspires a sense of wonder in nature and the universe and helps us feel connected to one another and to nature through regular community gatherings.

How do regular community gatherings install a sense of wonder in nature and the universe. Do people go to church to talk about Quasars, white dwarfs and Black Holes and describe in intricate detail developments of animal behaviour or fauna and flora through botany?

Christianity helps us feel less alone in the world by binding the community together.

Unless you are not part of their clique. Not one of the residents Christians attended the winter solstice celebration here. Join their religion and they are open arms. If you don't you might as well be a leper.

Christianity serves to ennoble the human spirit and inspires love, peace and happiness.

By dropping bombs on nations that have people from mostly other religions.

Christianity brings order to our lives by promoting the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness and humility.

Yet most Christians do not practice these traits as observed here in the forums and in real life. Do you think a real Christian would actually vote for the likes of someone like Donald Trump or George Bush?

Christianity brings comfort to the terminally ill

By telling them they are going to see the big sky daddy in Heaven. All religions promise a better world after death. Christianity does not hold a monopoly on that. Sometimes the best comfort for the terminally ill is the "humane" practice of assisted suicide.

and can act as a source of hope for the oppressed.

What if it is the Christians doing the oppression?

Christianity teaches that we can transform ourselves.[/QUOTE] You mean into another gender. Or perhaps another sexual persuasion? Or to another religion? Or to give up Religion. These would certainly be considered transforming oneself.

[/QUOTE]That it is possible to change for the better.[/QUOTE]Was somebody advocating against personal growth. That we should stay exactly like we were when we were 15.

Christian values were the foundation which Western Civilization was built upon.

Some, not all Christian values were borrowed from previous religions and cultures. Some Christian values like slavery and corporal punishment are fading. Some Christians values never materialized, like stoning to death those who work on Sundays or those who wear 2 types of cloth.

No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the Catholic Church. Modern science was born in the Catholic Church. Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market. The Catholic Church invented the university. Western law grew out of Church canon law. The Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life.

Oh dear, the catholic church. Watch this

or this

The Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources.

It was the same religion that brought slavery to the Western Civilization. It's even mentioned in their fallible holy book. You've seen the quotes.

[/QUOTE]Religion gave us great thinkers, leaders and humanitarians.[/QUOTE]Yes, all religions did that. Even non-religions. [/QUOTE]Christianity gave us America.[/QUOTE]Ahh, NO. Christianity isn't even mentioned. Most of the founding fathers were deists. Not Christians. Read their quotes.
Founding Father Quotes on Religion

They were a Christianity gave us incredible artwork, music and architecture. Christianity has spread democracy throughout the world.

Non Christians have done the same. Please try again.

[/QUOTE]Christians fought other Christians in WWII to end their aggression and rebuilt Europe and Japan after WWII.[/QUOTE]
Yes, some Christians were Nazis and fascists. What is the point? Christians fought along every other religion and non-religion in WW2.
[/QUOTE]Christians put a man on the moon [/QUOTE]Many of the members of NASA were atheists and agnostics. There were also many other religions present in employees of NASA.
[/QUOTE]and ended the cold war.[/QUOTE]It seems to be escalating again. I don't think the cold war ended out of religious ideologies but from political and economic traits.[/QUOTE]
I think you have a few issues, brother.

 

[RWS]

I could use religion to make a terrorist or I could make someone into mother Theresa using religion. Either way I could lie and create a religious person.

Do I need religion to make a good person? No. In fact lots of Americans raise good people without religion.

This is what I believe a world devoid religion would look like... Their religion is socialism which worships big government and social policy. It is based on atheism and deification of man. It proceeds in almost all its manifestations from the assumption that the basic principles guiding the life of an individual and of mankind in general do not go beyond the satisfaction of material needs or primitive instincts. They have no distinction between good and evil, no morality or any other kind of value, save pleasure. Their doctrine is abolition of private property, abolition of family, abolition of religion and communality or equality.

As I already said, Socialism is a religion that is very closely related to two Christian religions, one of which we have a holiday for, minus the "god". The goal of socialism is
to get to Communism, rather than Heaven. And of course, the goal is unattainable, but people are forced to strive and obey their rulers regardless, and the rulers keep making more money and power, while never letting the truth be known.

Socialism intentionally denies examination. In fact there is no formal defined dogma. Instead there is only a vague, rosy notion of something noble and good, of equality, communal ownership, and justice: the advent of these things will bring instant euphoria and a social order beyond reproach. World socialism as a whole, and all the figures associated with it, are shrouded in legend; its contradictions are forgotten or concealed; it does not respond to arguments but continually ignores them--all this stems from the mist of irrationality that surrounds socialism and from its instinctive aversion to scientific analysis. Socialism dismisses its defeats and ignores its incongruities. The genesis of the first socialist doctrines were reactions: Plato as a reaction to Greek culture, and the Gnostics as a reaction to Christianity. They sought to counteract the endeavor of the human spirit to stand erect, and strove to return to the earthbound existence of the primitive states of antiquity. Socialism is diametrically opposed between the concepts of man held by religion and by socialism. Socialism seeks to reduce human personality to its most primitive levels and to extinguish the highest, most complex, and "God-like" aspects of human individuality. And even equality itself, that powerful appeal and great promise of socialists throughout the ages, turns out to signify not equality of rights, of opportunities, and of external conditions, but equality qua identity, equality seen as the movement of variety toward uniformity.

Socialism acts like a religion which worships big government and social policy. It is based on atheism and deification of man. It proceeds in almost all its manifestations from the assumption that the basic principles guiding the life of an individual and of mankind in general do not go beyond the satisfaction of material needs or primitive instincts. They have no distinction between good and evil, no morality or any other kind of value, save pleasure. Their doctrine is abolition of private property, abolition of family, abolition of religion and communality or equality. The religious nature of socialism explains the extraordinary attraction to socialist doctrines and its capacity to inflame individuals and inspire popular movements and condemn respect for any who believe in Christianity. They practice moral relativity, indiscriminate indiscriminateness, multiculturalism, cultural marxism and normalization of deviance. Their hostility towards traditional religions is that of an animosity between a rival religion. They can be identified by an external locus of control. They worship science but are the first to argue against it.

Alexander I. Solzhenitsyn -- A World Split Apart — Commencement Address Delivered At Harvard University, June 8, 1978

The Socialist Phenomenon by Igor Shafarevich

More links?!?

Did you take the time to read them this time, to make sure they're not falsifying your argument? I sure ain't gonna click 'em anymore...

But your reply is EXACTLY what Christianity did. Minus the God part... Think Puritanism and Calvinism as easy examples. I'm not promoting Socialism either, it is equally bad due to coercing people to do bad things in the name of their "God" (god being government in Socialism). And Socialists killed millions of people due to their religion in the 20th century. Just showing you that Socialism is a religion, just as bad as Christianity.

But atheists are not Socialists! Geez...

Just because people are atheist/agnostic, does not make them part of mother Russia! You sound like McCarthy at his peak!

People that are atheist/agnostic simply haven't been fooled by the snake-oil salesmen that have tried to embed themselves into our psyche from birth.

We're rational people, looking at an irrational society of religious lemmings killing each other over supernatural beings, and wondering where this craziness is going to lead us...

And I don't see it leading anywhere "good" for humanity, as it stands right now. I think the Earth could definitely use an "intervention".

Except believing socialism is bad I agree. Some things should be socialized.

Or properly regulated.

I agree that Communism is potentially good, though I don't know if humans can really live that way over a prolonged time. Socialism is the way that they told people is necessary in getting there, and they successfully fooled their followers into thinking that they will eventually get there. But the people won't.... Because the ones in power will never willingly give up their power and be a common person, which is what is necessary for Communism. Greed is too mighty to ignore.

 

[RWS]

Well, for you educated folks the first rule of biology is that it takes life to produce life. Life doesn't come from something that is not alive itself. Now, all you need do is figure out what or who was alive first.

I don't know about that rule, honestly...

What we consider "life" is up for debate, but at its core, it's a replicating molecule.

Of course, the more advanced stages of "life" require others to continue. But the initial RNA-like molecules that configured by chance, and started drawing other atoms towards it to bind, based on chemistry, until such point where they would split, was the beginning of the machine of replication that we call life. That started about 3.5 billion years ago. And those life forms did not need another life form to have sexy-time with... They just did it by themselves.... (the perverts)

 

[RWS]

More links?!?

Did you take the time to read them this time, to make sure they're not falsifying your argument? I sure ain't gonna click 'em anymore...

Of course I did. I wouldn't expect you to be able stomach reading them and even if you could I wouldn't expect you to comprehend them.

But your reply is EXACTLY what Christianity did. Minus the God part... Think Puritanism and Calvinism as easy examples. I'm not promoting Socialism either, it is equally bad due to coercing people to do bad things in the name of their "God" (god being government in Socialism). And Socialists killed millions of people due to their religion in the 20th century. Just showing you that Socialism is a religion, just as bad as Christianity.

Don't be silly, Christianity has been the greatest force for good in the history of mankind. You just can't be objective about it because you don't believe you can be wrong. Your righteous indignation was only made possible by the high standards established by Judea/Christianity. You are like the dog who bites the hand that feeds it. You are like the goat who believes the other pasture is greener. Path not taken. Grow up in India or China and see how you would have been treated.

But atheists are not Socialists! Geez...

Just because people are atheist/agnostic, does not make them part of mother Russia! You sound like McCarthy at his peak!

People that are atheist/agnostic simply haven't been fooled by the snake-oil salesmen that have tried to embed themselves into our psyche from birth.

We're rational people, looking at an irrational society of religious lemmings killing each other over supernatural beings, and wondering where this craziness is going to lead us...

And I don't see it leading anywhere "good" for humanity, as it stands right now. I think the Earth could definitely use an "intervention".

First of all, you are not agnostic. You are an atheist. Maybe a borderline militant atheist. Secondly, history and reason tells us the MILITANT atheism leads to communism.

lol, whatever you want to classify me as, I can tell you one thing... I understand the nature of goodness more than you ever will, while you're trapped in your fantasies of religious superiority.

 

[RWS]

We need a Jewish person to post here, and set ding straight about religious superiority.