Zone1 If God Is All Powerful, All Knowing, and All Loving, Then Why Didn't He Create Us To Be Perfect Like Himself

[Cellblock2429]

Right, I was trying to solicit responses as to why others justify why God did not make us perfect.

/——/ You’ll have to ask him.

 

[onefour1]

So, God didn't create us perfect. So when humans then went against his wishes, he killed all of them in a genocidal frenzy, AND killed animals, and then kept Noah and his family who went on to have descendants who became Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot etc etc etc.

Also, he made lions, tigers and many other carnivores who get their food by BEING VIOLENT. He created humans as omnivores to go out and KILL, and then gets angry because they're violent???

Why would you create something violent and then complain when they're violent and THEN, get this, because you hate violence so much you got and KILL most animals and humans. Nothing says "I abhor violence" more than going on a genocidal frenzy, does it?

From God's perspective, He has placed us in this temporary mortal life to learn good from evil and to learn to choose good over evil. He is giving all of his spirit children the opportunity to receive a body and to allow them to use their free will to become good. When they use their free will to become wicked and evil, God may take them out of this temporary mortal existence. Later, God will allow the eternal spirits of mankind to again be joined to their bodies to become immortal and live forever and ever. However, He will not allow them to live in a kingdom that abides by a celestial law if they are not willing to abide by that law. He will send them to a kingdom where they are willing to abide by the law of that kingdom. God is giving us the chance to learn and abide by his laws of his kingdom of heaven. If we fail to choose his law and repent and forsake our sins, we will not be allowed into that kingdom. We must go to a lower lawed kingdom. You fail to realize that we are sent to this life for a purpose. That purpose is not that we become as evil as we can become. In the days of Noah God has taught us that the earth was filled with violence. This all occurred because mankind chose of their own free will and choice to wicked and evil.

Genesis 6:5-13
5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.
9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
10 And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

Here God tells us that mankind, through their free will choice had rejected God and rejected good and were very evil. The earth had become filled with violence and very corrupt. Mankind had chosen to go against He who created them and gave them opportunity to progress to be good beings. It was never the purpose of God to allow mankind to become wicked and turn the world in a wicked and degenerate place. However, it was critical to give mankind free will in hopes that they would use it to become more perfect in becoming like God. The spirits of mankind are eternal in nature and God has made it possible that the mortality of man would become immortal forever through the resurrection. However,, the purpose of this earth was to give mankind a chance to progress to become more like God. When the world in the days of Noah chose evil over goodness, God simply decided to take them out of this temporary world so that the world would have a chance to be a place where his children could choose goodness instead of being raised in wickedness. It is not the purpose and end all be all of this temporary mortal life to be free of consequence of our choices and be allowed to continue forever in wickedness. It isn't wickedness on the part of God to remove those on this earth who love wickedness more than righteousness. You say God went into a genocidal frenzy but God actually knew the end from the beginning and knew that some of this children would reject goodness in this temporal life and reject God and goodness. He warned them and called them unto repentance and they continued to reject him. God then decided that that generation were beyond repentance and decided to end the temporary mortal existence of that generation since they were beyond saving in their current state. He cleansed the earth and started over. Those who were removed will go on to immortality but have rejected God's will in this life. They will, in the world of the spirits of the dead receive another chance to accept the Lord's gospel as we learn in 1 Peter 3. However, God saw that in their current state in this life, they were beyond repentance and unwilling to turn to God and choose good over evil. Your lack of faith in God leads you to pass judgment upon God. There is a prophecy that in the end of this world every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is the Christ and that God's judgments are just and true.

 

[onefour1]

Did you read the bible? God created Adam and Eve to live forever, knowing only good, not aging like now, never sick, in perfection. Alls they had to do was not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and bad. They rebelled because of satans lie, thus God let them have their way=mortals knowing good and bad, but aging, dying, sick, etc. Gods kingdom rule has promised to put it back the way God planned it to be to start with.

Yes I have read the bible. Yes Adam and Eve were placed in the Garden of Eden in a state of innocence not knowing good from evil. They were immortal at the time but after the fall they became mortal and subject to death. But God knowing the end from the beginning knew, before even placing Adam and Even on the earth, that they would fall and planned for this by foreordaining a Savior before the foundation of the world. God still allowed Adam and Eve to come to this earth and fall even though he had foreknowledge of what the outcome would be. I don't think God expected Adam and Eve to continue in the Garden without falling. In fact, I believe that God wanted Adam and Eve to gain a knowledge of good ad evil and after the fall Adam and Eve progresses to become more like God for partaking of the fruit.

Genesis 3:22
22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

God, after the fall, allowed for Adam and Eve to repent of their transgression and to receive forgiveness through the atonement of Jesus Christ which was to come at a future time in the earth. The important thing was Adam and Eve were allowed to gain the knowledge of good and evil just God himself has. Even though they received this knowledge they were allowed to receive forgiveness of sins and were to learn to choose good over evil and progress to become more perfect in having strength over evil. True, Satan did tempt them to partake of the fruit. God could simply have not allowed Satan to even be in the earth and He could have kept the tree from even being planted in the garden. But He didn't. God foreknew that Adam and Eve would fall and still chose to place Satan and the tree on this earth. If God would have wanted Adam and Eve to live in the garden forever He could have prevent what he foreknew would be the outcome. But he didn't. I suggest to you that God wanted Adam and Eve to fall and to learn good and evil and become more like God. This is why He chose a Savior before the foundation of this world to allow fallen man to repent and receive forgiveness of sin after learning good and evil and choosing good over evil. Eventually Jesus Christ, the Savior of the world would atone for this original transgression (or sin if you will). This allowed all who were born in this life to receive resurrection and regain immortality. So the experiences of this life, ie aging, dying, and sickness, were given for mankind's experience and understanding. This life is an opportunity to become more like God by gaining a greater knowledge of good and evil and a chance to learn to be strong in the face of evil and gain a body and learn the blessings of having a body of flesh and bones. Yes, God will put this earth back to a more exalted state but the difference will be that those who inherit the earth will be more like their Father in Heaven.

 

[onefour1]

/——/ You’ll have to ask him.

I have and if you have read my posts I have given you the answer I have received.

 

[sealybobo]

That is if you believe that God can do anything imaginable. I don't believe God can. I think that when we say that God is all powerful, that means that he has the power to do all that is possible. There are eternal impossibilities that not even God can do. I believe that God cannot create out of nothing. I believe that our intelligence is self-existing and was not created or made, neither indeed can be. Not even by God. I believe God uses self-existing intelligence to create life. Thus he could never create us to be perfect. In order for man to become perfect, he would need free will and choose of his own volition to abide by laws of perfection. This is why God could not create us to be perfect like himself. Mankind has to use his free will to progress to become perfect.

Making us smarter, stronger, faster and could see better wouldn't mean we were perfect. Perfect is impossible. If he's a god, he could have made us better. Which tells me what made us isn't a god at all.

If we were his chosen species we'd be the strongest thing on land. Not bear.

I heard this on a show once. Why would god make a beautiful flower but hide a poisonous snake behind it? Then it dawned on me. This world wasn't made for us.

 

[frigidweirdo]

From God's perspective, He has placed us in this temporary mortal life to learn good from evil and to learn to choose good over evil. He is giving all of his spirit children the opportunity to receive a body and to allow them to use their free will to become good. When they use their free will to become wicked and evil, God may take them out of this temporary mortal existence. Later, God will allow the eternal spirits of mankind to again be joined to their bodies to become immortal and live forever and ever. However, He will not allow them to live in a kingdom that abides by a celestial law if they are not willing to abide by that law. He will send them to a kingdom where they are willing to abide by the law of that kingdom. God is giving us the chance to learn and abide by his laws of his kingdom of heaven. If we fail to choose his law and repent and forsake our sins, we will not be allowed into that kingdom. We must go to a lower lawed kingdom. You fail to realize that we are sent to this life for a purpose. That purpose is not that we become as evil as we can become. In the days of Noah God has taught us that the earth was filled with violence. This all occurred because mankind chose of their own free will and choice to wicked and evil.

Genesis 6:5-13
5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.
9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
10 And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

Here God tells us that mankind, through their free will choice had rejected God and rejected good and were very evil. The earth had become filled with violence and very corrupt. Mankind had chosen to go against He who created them and gave them opportunity to progress to be good beings. It was never the purpose of God to allow mankind to become wicked and turn the world in a wicked and degenerate place. However, it was critical to give mankind free will in hopes that they would use it to become more perfect in becoming like God. The spirits of mankind are eternal in nature and God has made it possible that the mortality of man would become immortal forever through the resurrection. However,, the purpose of this earth was to give mankind a chance to progress to become more like God. When the world in the days of Noah chose evil over goodness, God simply decided to take them out of this temporary world so that the world would have a chance to be a place where his children could choose goodness instead of being raised in wickedness. It is not the purpose and end all be all of this temporary mortal life to be free of consequence of our choices and be allowed to continue forever in wickedness. It isn't wickedness on the part of God to remove those on this earth who love wickedness more than righteousness. You say God went into a genocidal frenzy but God actually knew the end from the beginning and knew that some of this children would reject goodness in this temporal life and reject God and goodness. He warned them and called them unto repentance and they continued to reject him. God then decided that that generation were beyond repentance and decided to end the temporary mortal existence of that generation since they were beyond saving in their current state. He cleansed the earth and started over. Those who were removed will go on to immortality but have rejected God's will in this life. They will, in the world of the spirits of the dead receive another chance to accept the Lord's gospel as we learn in 1 Peter 3. However, God saw that in their current state in this life, they were beyond repentance and unwilling to turn to God and choose good over evil. Your lack of faith in God leads you to pass judgment upon God. There is a prophecy that in the end of this world every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is the Christ and that God's judgments are just and true.

So, right, God put us on the Earth for a short time to learn good from evil. Does God know good from evil? The guy who committed MASS GENOCIDE knows the difference? Like putting Hitler and Stalin in charge of the UN Human Rights body, isn't it?

 

[Blues Man]

No, we simply interpret it differently.

How do you know your interpretation is the correct one?

That's the problem with the bible and IMO what proves it was all made up by men, it's far too complicated. People have a penchant for over complicating simple ideas.

 

[Blues Man]

I think that is a very false assumption. We make bad decisions because of a lack of knowledge and understanding or we are not controlling our passions and desires. It is however possible for us to gain a greater knowledge and understanding and make free will choices to live by a greater knowledge and understanding and to control our passions and desires. Its a free will choice that we can make and this is the reason God commands us to repent and forsake our sins and keep his commandments.

Your very thoughts do not have to be sins. That is a choice you can make. You can choose to not sin!

It's not just your actions that are sinful.

Thought crimes were invented by the god of the bible. Tell me are you in 100% control of all the thoughts that arise unbidden in your mind?

 

[Blues Man]

The quest for perfection is not a losing game. God has commanded us to be perfect. He does not give commandments that cannot be fulfilled by us. Right and wrong can be subjective at times but in the overall it is not subjective. God gives us commandments that as a general rule are not subjective truths. God also can guide us through his Holy Spirit into all truth and thus in rare situations He can always lead us in the path of righteousness. We own our free will choices. We don't have to choose evil. However, we aren't perfect while here on earth and before coming to a perfect knowledge and understanding of right and wrong, we can make mistakes. God expects us to stop being ignorant and learn his ways. By studying his ways and following his spirit, you can overcome your ignorance and evil desires and become like God. God has made it possible to be forgiven for past mistakes as we take his gospel and apply it to our lives and strive to become more like him. We own our bad choices and through repentance and forgiveness of sins we can be forgiven and not have those sins held accountable on us in the day of judgement. Yes, we will be judged for the free will choices that we make. Imperfection is entered into by making bad free will choices. Perfection is entered into by forsaking bad decisions and using our free will choice to repent and and forsake our bad choices. Forgiveness for the bad choices is possible because God so loved the world that He gave his Only Begotten Son as a sacrifice for those sins. All we need to do is have faith in God and repent and seek after Him and you will be on the path of perfection. Sins are our fault because nobody is making us sin, we do it of our own free will and choice. Thus we are accountable for our choices and sins.

Do you tell your children they must be perfect?

 

[SweetSue92]

How do you know your interpretation is the correct one?

That's the problem with the bible and IMO what proves it was all made up by men, it's far too complicated. People have a penchant for over complicating simple ideas.

It's not complicated at all.

 

[SweetSue92]

Do you tell your children they must be perfect?

Onefour is a Mormon. He believes he is saved by God "after all he can do". Joseph Smith tried to usurp God. That turns out poorly.

 

[Blues Man]

It's not complicated at all.

How many pages did it take to get across the simple idea to love a god and treat other people well?

 

[SweetSue92]

How many pages did it take to get across the simple idea to love a god and treat other people well?

Uh....that's not the primary message of the Bible. It's an important message, but not the primary one.

 

[Blues Man]

Uh....that's not the primary message of the Bible. It's an important message, but not the primary one.

OK what is your opinion what the primary message is?

The Bible is full of junk that isn't necessary.

It's the same thing as what happened to Buddhism. Siddhartha put forth a simple philosophy of a humanist way of life that he used to free himself from the suffering he saw in the world. But after his death other people started over complicating the message leading a schism and the arise of different "schools" of Buddhism all with their own voluminous writings.

The bible is this very thing to an exponential degree.

I can carry a copy of the Tao in my back pocket because of its simple elegance. Whereas i could drop a bible on your head and kill you because of it's overstuffed, over complicated writings.

 

[SweetSue92]

OK what is your opinion what the primary message is?

The Bible is full of junk that isn't necessary.

It's the same thing as what happened to Buddhism. Siddhartha put forth a simple philosophy of a humanist way of life that he used to free himself from the suffering he saw in the world. But after his death other people started over complicating the message leading a schism and the arise of different "schools" of Buddhism all with their own voluminous writings.

The bible is this very thing to an exponential degree.

I can carry a copy of the Tao in my back pocket because of its simple elegance. Whereas i could drop a bible on your head and kill you because of it's overstuffed, over complicated writings.

The message is simple:

God created everything including man
Man fell
Jesus was born an Jew
Jesus died and rose again
Anyone who believes and confesses will live again

Dude, you're mistaken if you think I'm bothered by what you carry in your back pocket. The time is too short now to try to convince those who have hardened their hearts. It is what it is.

 

[Blues Man]

The message is simple:

God created everything including man
Man fell
Jesus was born an Jew
Jesus died and rose again
Anyone who believes and confesses will live again

Dude, you're mistaken if you think I'm bothered by what you carry in your back pocket. The time is too short now to try to convince those who have hardened their hearts. It is what it is.

The message is simple but the bible if full of unnecessary over complicated garbage.

And why is my heart hardened? Because I don't believe what you believe? The Tao is a philosophy of gentle living in harmony with nature and other people.

 

[SweetSue92]

The message is simple but the bible if full of unnecessary over complicated garbage.

And why is my heart hardened? Because I don't believe what you believe? The Tao is a philosophy of gentle living in harmony with nature and other people.

In YOUR opinion. Frankly, I do not care what you think about the Bible; it does not affect my faith at all. I do wonder why you're always here to puncture holes in it though. I think you're just angry at your parents, and God is a stand in parental figure.

 

[Blues Man]

In YOUR opinion. Frankly, I do not care what you think about the Bible; it does not affect my faith at all. I do wonder why you're always here to puncture holes in it though. I think you're just angry at your parents, and God is a stand in parental figure.

Here we go , another Sigmund Fraud moment.

I don't believe what you do and see the flaws in the bible so I have psychological problems.

You have no problem telling people your religion is the ONE the best way to live but when other people disagree and put forth other opinions you call it hate.

 

[SweetSue92]

Here we go , another Sigmund Fraud moment.

I don't believe what you do and see the flaws in the bible so I have psychological problems.

You have no problem telling people your religion is the ONE the best way to live but when other people disagree and put forth other opinions you call it hate.

I do not think you have psychological problems. I think a lot of people who had terrible childhoods have a hard time with God because they project that God is like their father/mother.

Also, I have already said you have the right to reject anything I say, in fact I respect that right and so does God. I accept that you don't believe and have rejected it. So, go your way. You have seemingly made your choice.

 

[Blues Man]

I do not think you have psychological problems. I think a lot of people who had terrible childhoods have a hard time with God because they project that God is like their father/mother.

Also, I have already said you have the right to reject anything I say, in fact I respect that right and so does God. I accept that you don't believe and have rejected it. So, go your way. You have seemingly made your choice.

So then you just assume I am angry at my parents because I don't believe in your god. What is that other than pseudo- psychology?

If I don't think the god of the bible is real and that IF there are gods that they have nothing in common with this man made interpretation of human religions it's pretty hard for me to think of the god you believe in as a parental substitute.

But it's always the same assumptions. I don't go for the Abrahamic gods so I must be angry and resentful of my parents.