Zone1 If God Is All Powerful, All Knowing, and All Loving, Then Why Didn't He Create Us To Be Perfect Like Himself

[onefour1]

Yes, I think it is a mistake to think God is not all powerful and good.

Again, it depends on your definition of "All Powerful". You believe God can do things that I believe are eternal impossibilities. I believe God can do all that is possible to do. In this way God is "All Powerful" and not that you can dream up anything imaginable and imagine that God can do it no matter what. God is the greatest good that one can be. You like to accuse me of thinking God is bad or mean or whatever, because I don't subscribe to your definition of "All Powerful".

 

[ding]

Likewise.

No. I have an engineering degree and understand everything I am discussing. You do not.

 

[ding]

God gave revelation. I have never and will never believe that God is mean and cruel. Do you really think lack of power to do anything you can imagine in your mind = mean and cruel? Good luck with that!

I think you can't recognize that good comes from bad. You just see bad.

 

[ding]

I do believe God is all powerful. I just believe that 'All Powerful' means that He can do anything that is possible to do in reality. I don't believe He can do the impossible. Again, All Powerful does not mean He can do anything you can dream up. And just because He can't do that which is eternally impossible, does not mean that God is mean.

If God can't do anything then God is not all powerful. The only thing God can't do is oppose himself. God is reality so reality can be anything God wants it to be.

 

[ding]

I am not questioning God. I am questioning your belief system. Are you God?

No, I'm not God, but you most certainly are questioning God because you don't accept that everything that exists comes from God. So instead you build a false narrative that this was the best God could do because God is limited in what he can do. I reject that notion and instead conclude that suffering exists so that good can come from it. Which is exactly what we see.

 

[ding]

He has already revealed that He did not create our intelligence and never could. That's not an error. It is only your belief system that calls it an error.

Again you are arguing God is limited. I disagree. We exist because the laws of nature - which existed before space and time - predestined being that know and create would arise.

 

[ding]

Again, it depends on your definition of "All Powerful". You believe God can do things that I believe are eternal impossibilities. I believe God can do all that is possible to do. In this way God is "All Powerful" and not that you can dream up anything imaginable and imagine that God can do it no matter what. God is the greatest good that one can be. You like to accuse me of thinking God is bad or mean or whatever, because I don't subscribe to your definition of "All Powerful".

I'm arguing that you believe God is limited in power because you can't accept that God would allow suffering to exist.

You honor God being good and reconcile the suffering by saying God isn't powerful enough to have created a world without suffering, despite the narrative of the Garden of Eden. So according to that narrative, God did create a paradise without suffering and man messed it up. So right there, that narrative disproves your argument that God couldn't create a Garden of Eden.

 

[onefour1]

No. I have an engineering degree and understand everything I am discussing. You do not.

Well, you don't seem to understand that a THEORY is not a FACT!

 

[onefour1]

I think you can't recognize that good comes from bad. You just see bad.

Good comes from God and God is not bad. Bad is only the opposite of good. If you create something bad it will have its opposite and if you create something good it will have its opposite. God establishes goodness and evil (or bad) is its opposite.

 

[ding]

Well, you don't seem to understand that a THEORY is not a FACT!

No other theory explains red shift and the CMB. The universe did indeed begin and it was created from paired particle production.

 

[ding]

Good comes from God and God is not bad. Bad is only the opposite of good. If you create something bad it will have its opposite and if you create something good it will have its opposite. God establishes goodness and evil (or bad) is its opposite.

You should have countless examples in your life that you can reference that good comes from bad. Countless.

 

[GLASNOST]

If God has the power to do anything imaginable and knows all things, certainly He would have the power to make us to be exactly like himself. ..... and if He truly loves us, then he would certainly make us to be the best we could be. ..... If God created us to be perfect like Himself, then we would make perfect choices given that we are created to be perfect even as God is perfect. ...

Too many "ifs".

 

[onefour1]

If God can't do anything then God is not all powerful. The only thing God can't do is oppose himself. God is reality so reality can be anything God wants it to be.

Why, under the same logic, are you not limiting God when you say he cannot oppose Himself and yet claiming that if God can't do anything then God is not all powerful, yet claim he is all powerful? I agree to disagree. My belief is that there are eternal impossibilities which not even God can do such as creating out of absolutely nothing and the ability to create intelligence. I believe matter and intelligence are self-existing and have always existed.

 

[ding]

Why, under the same logic, are you not limiting God when you say he cannot oppose Himself and yet claiming that if God can't do anything then God is not all powerful, yet claim he is all powerful? I agree to disagree. My belief is that there are eternal impossibilities which not even God can do such as creating out of absolutely nothing and the ability to create intelligence. I believe matter and intelligence are self-existing and have always existed.

Because God opposing himself would be illogical and God is logic among other things.

God is self existing. Nothing else is self existing. You aren't a god. You are one of God's creatures.

So according to your logic there is a great reservoir of beings that have never been born and are waiting to be born?

 

[onefour1]

No, I'm not God, but you most certainly are questioning God because you don't accept that everything that exists comes from God. So instead you build a false narrative that this was the best God could do because God is limited in what he can do. I reject that notion and instead conclude that suffering exists so that good can come from it. Which is exactly what we see.

I don't accept that everything that exists came from nothing through God. It's really difficult to believe that before God brought the first thing ever into existence, that He lived all by Himself alone for eons and eons and eons going back forever and ever in the past with no end. That must have been one lonely existence. Can you imagine an infinite past with only you and absolutely nothing else in existence until he finally decided to create something. Seems awful strange to me. Living in a state of nothingness for an infinite eternity past.

It's only a false narrative in your thoughts. I believe there is suffering because God uses it as a tool for teaching and for our learning to bring about a greater good. He does so because He couldn't simply create us perfect since He could never create our intelligence and thus must bring about our perfection through other means by using this mortal human experience to give us experience and knowledge, understanding, wisdom, etc. Suffering would not even played a role if God could have had the power to simply create us perfect as you seem to believe. If God could have created us to be exactly like Himself from the creation of us all, we would not need all the pain, suffering and death to bring about the perfection of man. You claim suffering is necessary to bring about good. Is God a good being? Is God the Father a being who needs suffering to know goodness? If not, then does He not have the power to create us to be the same? If not, why? If he does, why didn't he create us as perfect as Himself? If God didn't need the bad to become good, why couldn't he create us to be good without the bad? Is God dependent of badness to make us good beings? Is that something he cannot do? Can God not create us as good beings without badness? Are you limiting God? If He's not dependent upon and doesn't really need the bad to make us good, then why not make us without it? If he does need it, then you are placing a limit on God's power by saying He couldn't create us perfect without the bad.

 

[ChemEngineer]

Same As Constitution-Bangers

Lowlife (sic) have a desperate need to associate themselves with an imaginary Higher Power.

"Lowlife (sic)" Nobel Laureates in the sciences have been 85% Jews and Christians, unlike The Sage (sic) of Main Street.

 

[onefour1]

Again you are arguing God is limited. I disagree. We exist because the laws of nature - which existed before space and time - predestined being that know and create would arise.

I am arguing that if God is unlimited, then why didn't He choose to make us perfect like Himself without having to go through all the pain, suffering, and death. If God is unlimited in power, surely He could have created us to be the best possible beings like Himself. Why did He create us inferior to himself? Why not, with His unlimited power, simply create us from the start to be perfect beings knowing all things, having all wisdom, having all understanding, having all virtue, etc. etc. Surely, if God is unlimited in His power to do absolutely anything imaginable, He could have done it! Why didn't He?

My answer is: Because "all powerful" does not mean that God can do absolutely anything imaginable but "all powerful" means that God has the ability to do all that is possible. We have no idea what is possible in the eternities but I have been told that God cannot create intelligence in God's revelations in my belief system. I therefore believe there are eternal impossibilities. I don't believe that God creates out of absolutely nothing but that He creates from self-existing matter and intelligence.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

 

[onefour1]

I'm arguing that you believe God is limited in power because you can't accept that God would allow suffering to exist.

You honor God being good and reconcile the suffering by saying God isn't powerful enough to have created a world without suffering, despite the narrative of the Garden of Eden. So according to that narrative, God did create a paradise without suffering and man messed it up. So right there, that narrative disproves your argument that God couldn't create a Garden of Eden.

Oh, I do believe that God allows suffering to exist because God couldn't create us perfect. You are the one who believes that God could have created us perfect but for some reason chose not to.

I think God allows suffering because He uses it to teach us good and evil and give us a greater understanding of the universe that we might choose in and of ourselves to be good beings. He could not create us to be perfect like Himself so through our free will, we must learn to choose good over evil to become more perfect. If God had the power to create us perfect, He wouldn't need to allow suffering in the world. I do believe He is capable of creating a world without suffering, but for us to grow and learn He has created a temporary world and allowed suffering to exist. I do believe the narrative of the Garden of Eden and the reason for the fall of Adam and Eve was to give the greater experience in a fallen world of good and evil. A means of salvation was provided to grant all who die to live again immortally through the resurrection. Those who are willing to choose good over evil of their own free will and choice are candidates for the Kingdom of Heaven and are on the path to perfection. Heaven itself is a world created by God without suffering. So your proof is wrong. I never ever said God didn't have the power to create a world without suffering. You imagined that.

 

[ding]

Oh, I do believe that God allows suffering to exist because God couldn't create us perfect. You are the one who believes that God could have created us perfect but for some reason chose not to.

I think God allows suffering because He uses it to teach us good and evil and give us a greater understanding of the universe that we might choose in and of ourselves to be good beings. He could not create us to be perfect like Himself so through our free will, we must learn to choose good over evil to become more perfect. If God had the power to create us perfect, He wouldn't need to allow suffering in the world. I do believe He is capable of creating a world without suffering, but for us to grow and learn He has created a temporary world and allowed suffering to exist. I do believe the narrative of the Garden of Eden and the reason for the fall of Adam and Eve was to give the greater experience in a fallen world of good and evil. A means of salvation was provided to grant all who die to live again immortally through the resurrection. Those who are willing to choose good over evil of their own free will and choice are candidates for the Kingdom of Heaven and are on the path to perfection. Heaven itself is a world created by God without suffering. So your proof is wrong. I never ever said God didn't have the power to create a world without suffering. You imagined that.

God did create a perfect world, remember? The Garden of Eden. Your logic is wrong.