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We are not ants. You have claimed that we are a highly advanced form of consciousness. Shirley we can understand God.Your view of perfection? Or His? You're going to look pretty foolish explaining how he didn't do it right.We are told that God is perfection, yesAre you arguing that since man is not perfect there can be no God? Why?another aspect is if god created man, why is the human body so imperfect?
All I have said about God is that the solution to the first cause conundrum must have the attributes of eternal and unchanging. Trying to understand God would be like ants trying to understand humans.
He knows less science than the dog at the other end of my block.He didn't know that matter and energy could not be destroyed or created. Can you believe that? He claims he's some kind of scientist and doesn't know the first thing about the conservation of energy and matter. I bet if I told him that matter and energy were equivalent he'd argue about that.It's so cool to encounter Google educated Evolutionists.Then maybe you should stop pissing on it.I consider science my religion.
You don't know jack shit about the 1st Law of Thermodynamics and you sure as hell aren't a scientist the way you act.
We can never understand God.We are not ants. You have claimed that we are a highly advanced form of consciousness. Shirley we can understand God.Your view of perfection? Or His? You're going to look pretty foolish explaining how he didn't do it right.We are told that God is perfection, yesAre you arguing that since man is not perfect there can be no God? Why?another aspect is if god created man, why is the human body so imperfect?
All I have said about God is that the solution to the first cause conundrum must have the attributes of eternal and unchanging. Trying to understand God would be like ants trying to understand humans.
I have serious issues with a failed God who claims evil, sickness, war, poverty and suffering to be the definition of perfection.
You're an idiot. You go from inanimate matter to beings that know and create and you say that. Do you have any idea the number of systems and traits that had to be established before intelligence could emerge? You do realize that it was a sequential process, right? Just like if you were going to build a house.There is absolutely zero evidence that intelligence or your view of consciousness is a positive selective trait.The answer you are seeking is things are the way they are to propel consciousness to the next rung in the anthropological ladder.
You appear to believe that evolution has a direction and that is toward higher intelligence.
We as a species might just be the shortest-lived species ever to have inhabited this rock.
God, satan, archangels, angels, saints, etc. In Christianity there are lots of gods. Jesus made the apostles godsNo. Nature has no problem with singularities. Nature abhors a vacuum. Something will always come along to fill the void whether it be material or thought.Simple, there has to be many more than just one God. Nature does not like singularities.Why would you think there were more than one?There is only one Creator, Hollie. He doesn't care what you call Him. He has left us largely to our own devices. Choose wisely, but above all when you don't, don't rationalize you did.Either the gods are the creators of all or not. There is really no such a things as a "natural consequence" because the root of all is the supernatural law-defining abilities of the gods that cobbled it together. The gods don't cause an earthquake? Yes, they established the laws of plate tectonics which describe the physical characteristics of portions of the earth’s crust which shifts and adjusts, and those elements together create shifting of landmasses we call earthquakes.
The gods don't cause a tornado? Yes, they established the laws of convection and rotation of planets, and those two elements together create swirling whirlwinds we call twisters. As the Author of All, they could have created a completely different existence-- but didn't.
How do you know there is only one creator?
The force that created existence is not a committee. Maybe you are just getting confused by the Trinity. That seems to give some people problems. We both know you are just trying to confuse matters. That's what people like you do. So I guess on this subject you can assume my belief is that there is only one Creator and He cares not what you call Him. Fair enough?
Greco/Roman influence...sad.God, satan, archangels, angels, saints, etc. In Christianity there are lots of gods. Jesus made the apostles godsNo. Nature has no problem with singularities. Nature abhors a vacuum. Something will always come along to fill the void whether it be material or thought.Simple, there has to be many more than just one God. Nature does not like singularities.Why would you think there were more than one?There is only one Creator, Hollie. He doesn't care what you call Him. He has left us largely to our own devices. Choose wisely, but above all when you don't, don't rationalize you did.
How do you know there is only one creator?
The force that created existence is not a committee. Maybe you are just getting confused by the Trinity. That seems to give some people problems. We both know you are just trying to confuse matters. That's what people like you do. So I guess on this subject you can assume my belief is that there is only one Creator and He cares not what you call Him. Fair enough?
Biblical Superpowers: Miracles in Acts of the Apostles - The Great Adventure Catholic Bible Study
You do realize that there was a beginning to space and time, right?Uh, no we don't.there is the possibility god created man through evolution--yes?If you believe in evolution, do you believe a single celled creature just appeared to get the ball rolling?
That’s it folks! We have a winner! Thanks to all who played.
If God used evolution, then we don't need a God at all.
You all lose the argument.
You're pretty clueless about this, aren't you? Why else would you dare to condescend my beliefs to me?God, satan, archangels, angels, saints, etc. In Christianity there are lots of gods. Jesus made the apostles godsNo. Nature has no problem with singularities. Nature abhors a vacuum. Something will always come along to fill the void whether it be material or thought.Simple, there has to be many more than just one God. Nature does not like singularities.Why would you think there were more than one?There is only one Creator, Hollie. He doesn't care what you call Him. He has left us largely to our own devices. Choose wisely, but above all when you don't, don't rationalize you did.
How do you know there is only one creator?
The force that created existence is not a committee. Maybe you are just getting confused by the Trinity. That seems to give some people problems. We both know you are just trying to confuse matters. That's what people like you do. So I guess on this subject you can assume my belief is that there is only one Creator and He cares not what you call Him. Fair enough?
Biblical Superpowers: Miracles in Acts of the Apostles - The Great Adventure Catholic Bible Study
It's not that I'm super intelligent, bro. It's that you are super dumb.I think I have ding figured out. He began this thread sounding like a physicist w/o a lot of biological experience. He had everything tied up with a nice neat bow. Reality is a bit different. I noted his dependence on the laws of thermodynamics. Guess who uses those arguments? Yep Intelligent Designers.
Then he exposed himself with consciousnesses of the universe and the reason for & endpoint of evolution. Why? Cuz you need that to defend your God.
His belief system appears to be the same as Boss with his Spirit God.
His cosmology needs to fit with his theism
Let's take the Tower of Babel. It was an allegorical description of a real event; the migration from the cradle of civilization, right?Please elaborate starting with a verse.No single verse or even a single event but all events in genesis.Which verse leads you to state that the creation story is allegorical?So you are taking an allegorical account of creation and extrapolating a claim of perfection. I already explained this to you.You know this how?
The “evolutionary baggage” that all living organisms carry with them is among the most powerful evidence for evolution’s truth. And none of it is explicable if evolution had not occurred, and an “intelligent designer” had been involved. For why would an intelligent designer include anything that was “unnecessary” at all? It is only special creation that claims perfection. So you are actually arguing against your own beliefs here.
Evolution might “improve life” though it often does not. But only creation by god would be able to “perfect life.” And since living things are not perfect, if they are not the product of evolution then either one or more of the gods chose to create imperfect things, or they cannot create perfect things.
As to what is necessary and what is not is debatable. I don't believe any of it was unnecessary because everything is connected and serves a purpose.
Not even close. I am separating them. They are two different questions. Is there a Creator? Who is He?What ding is saying is that he is trying hard to connect science and his theism. That requires parts of the Bible to not be factual, rather allegorical.
To use an IDer's language, there are many missing links in Genesis.
The only point you have is religion is bad. Atheism is good.This is exactly my point. You all are all over the place. There is no theory of God. There are literally thousands of versions of just the Christian God.As though Ding is my spokesperson.I don't need to prove it, he admitted in with his words.Prove it starting from Genesis 1:1.The Bible has several literary types; allegorical, historical, law, poetic, prophetic, epistle and proverbialI don't have that problem.
The Bible has several literary types; allegorical, historical, law, poetic, prophetic, epistle and proverbial. I'm sure others may add or subtract to this list, but this is a pretty good start. When trying to understand the meaning of passages it is helpful to understand which literary type one is reading and also to place or read the passage in the proper historical light.
Let's start with the tree of knowledge of good and evil and the fall from grace. Genesis is allegorical. It starts with the allegorical account of Creation. After every step God would say "and it was good." So basically everything God created was good. Which makes sense because things like evil, darkness and cold or not extant. They don't exist on their own. They exist as the absence of something else. Cold is the absence of heat. Darkness is the absence of light. And evil is the absence of good.
Man knows right from wrong, but when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong, he rationalizes that he didn't violate it. After Adam and Eve had sinned and realized they were naked, they hid when they heard God coming. They hid because they knew that they had done wrong. Then when God asked point blank if they had done it, they rationalized that it wasn't their fault. Adam, did you eat the apple? The woman you made gave it to me. Eve did you eat the apple? The serpent deceived me.
Man is the only animal capable of knowledge of good and evil. No other creature has this concept. Sure animals can have empathy, but not like man. Animals function on impulse and instinct. Man functions on these too, but in man's case he has the unique ability to override his impulses and instinct for the sake of good. That is free will. It's a choice. Everything is choice.
I don't believe that Genesis is implying that had Adam and Eve never committed the original sin, we would live in paradise forever. I believe Genesis is saying that man has the capacity to do good and evil. So then the question begs why did God create such a world. I believe that that is an artifact of life. In other words, I don't believe God had a choice. It is part and parcel of the extant nature of good. I know people will howl that I said God had no choice but the reality is there are things God can't do. For instance, God can't oppose Himself; He can't go against His own nature.
So there are two very interesting things which come out of free will. One is that evil has the effect of making good better. It's like salt and sugar. Salt makes sugar taste sweeter. We are told elsewhere that He uses all things for the good of those who love Him. Among other things the Jews discovered is that there is meaning in suffering. 07 Judaism
The other interesting thing is that good has no meaning unless there is evil. In other words, it is not virtuous if you are forced to be virtuous.
In closing, man prefers good over evil. We don't do evil for evil's sake. We do evil for the sake of our own good and when we do, we rationalize that we didn't do evil. But from these acts, goodness will arise and we will be stronger for it. It is a self compensating feature whose sole purpose is to propel consciousness to the next rung in the anthropological ladder.
This sentence translated into modern English ~ The Bible is bullshit, or in nicer words, The Bible is a bunch of fairy tales.
I know...you're too smart to waste your time.
Allegorical = fairy tale that teaches a lesson
As soon as you admit the stories in the bible are not true, you lose the argument
The creation story is not allegorical unless one is an atheist and doesn't start reading from verse 1:1.
Yeah, when David was lamenting having built a big huge palace for himself and the Ark of the Covenant was sitting in a tent. He goes on to the priest about he's going to build a beautiful palace to house God.God laughs? God has a sense of humor?Actually, they support God because God laughs at those who believe only in nature.The only "scientists" who believe in evolution are those who major in Evolution.
There are way too many long lasting anomalies in nature to account for evolution.
The anomalies in nature prove evolution and disprove Gods
Can you point out a good joke God tells in the Bible?
Sounds like you are referring to a God that is man made.
Or maybe a Catholic.As though Ding is my spokesperson.I don't need to prove it, he admitted in with his words.Prove it starting from Genesis 1:1.The Bible has several literary types; allegorical, historical, law, poetic, prophetic, epistle and proverbialI don't have that problem.Assigning attributes to the gods such as "good" and "bad" puts the theist is quite a predicament.
The classic argument against the proposed attributes of gods (the omni's) show that the triune characteristics define a god that cannot possibly exist. One cannot be all good, all powerful and all knowing in any logical sense, at least not within the strictures of our present existence. The fact that there is suffering, death, and evil (if one is compelled to believe in things such as good and evil as concepts that exist as realities and not simply as human conventions), establishes that the gods, if they are to have created all, has allowed such things to exist in the first place. This is not consistent with omnibenvolence. If a thing is all good, then by definition there can be nothing evil about it; certainly it is incapable of creating anything that in and of itself can be considered evil.
The Bible has several literary types; allegorical, historical, law, poetic, prophetic, epistle and proverbial. I'm sure others may add or subtract to this list, but this is a pretty good start. When trying to understand the meaning of passages it is helpful to understand which literary type one is reading and also to place or read the passage in the proper historical light.
Let's start with the tree of knowledge of good and evil and the fall from grace. Genesis is allegorical. It starts with the allegorical account of Creation. After every step God would say "and it was good." So basically everything God created was good. Which makes sense because things like evil, darkness and cold or not extant. They don't exist on their own. They exist as the absence of something else. Cold is the absence of heat. Darkness is the absence of light. And evil is the absence of good.
Man knows right from wrong, but when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong, he rationalizes that he didn't violate it. After Adam and Eve had sinned and realized they were naked, they hid when they heard God coming. They hid because they knew that they had done wrong. Then when God asked point blank if they had done it, they rationalized that it wasn't their fault. Adam, did you eat the apple? The woman you made gave it to me. Eve did you eat the apple? The serpent deceived me.
Man is the only animal capable of knowledge of good and evil. No other creature has this concept. Sure animals can have empathy, but not like man. Animals function on impulse and instinct. Man functions on these too, but in man's case he has the unique ability to override his impulses and instinct for the sake of good. That is free will. It's a choice. Everything is choice.
I don't believe that Genesis is implying that had Adam and Eve never committed the original sin, we would live in paradise forever. I believe Genesis is saying that man has the capacity to do good and evil. So then the question begs why did God create such a world. I believe that that is an artifact of life. In other words, I don't believe God had a choice. It is part and parcel of the extant nature of good. I know people will howl that I said God had no choice but the reality is there are things God can't do. For instance, God can't oppose Himself; He can't go against His own nature.
So there are two very interesting things which come out of free will. One is that evil has the effect of making good better. It's like salt and sugar. Salt makes sugar taste sweeter. We are told elsewhere that He uses all things for the good of those who love Him. Among other things the Jews discovered is that there is meaning in suffering. 07 Judaism
The other interesting thing is that good has no meaning unless there is evil. In other words, it is not virtuous if you are forced to be virtuous.
In closing, man prefers good over evil. We don't do evil for evil's sake. We do evil for the sake of our own good and when we do, we rationalize that we didn't do evil. But from these acts, goodness will arise and we will be stronger for it. It is a self compensating feature whose sole purpose is to propel consciousness to the next rung in the anthropological ladder.
This sentence translated into modern English ~ The Bible is bullshit, or in nicer words, The Bible is a bunch of fairy tales.
I know...you're too smart to waste your time.
Allegorical = fairy tale that teaches a lesson
As soon as you admit the stories in the bible are not true, you lose the argument
The creation story is not allegorical unless one is an atheist and doesn't start reading from verse 1:1.
I'm not arrogant to believe I know the mind of God and you don't believe in Him in the first place so you don't either.We are not ants. You have claimed that we are a highly advanced form of consciousness. Shirley we can understand God.Your view of perfection? Or His? You're going to look pretty foolish explaining how he didn't do it right.We are told that God is perfection, yesAre you arguing that since man is not perfect there can be no God? Why?another aspect is if god created man, why is the human body so imperfect?
All I have said about God is that the solution to the first cause conundrum must have the attributes of eternal and unchanging. Trying to understand God would be like ants trying to understand humans.
I have serious issues with a failed God who claims evil, sickness, war, poverty and suffering to be the definition of perfection.
Really, bro?Greco/Roman influence...sad.God, satan, archangels, angels, saints, etc. In Christianity there are lots of gods. Jesus made the apostles godsNo. Nature has no problem with singularities. Nature abhors a vacuum. Something will always come along to fill the void whether it be material or thought.Simple, there has to be many more than just one God. Nature does not like singularities.Why would you think there were more than one?How do you know there is only one creator?
The force that created existence is not a committee. Maybe you are just getting confused by the Trinity. That seems to give some people problems. We both know you are just trying to confuse matters. That's what people like you do. So I guess on this subject you can assume my belief is that there is only one Creator and He cares not what you call Him. Fair enough?
Biblical Superpowers: Miracles in Acts of the Apostles - The Great Adventure Catholic Bible Study
Says the militant atheist troll.The Bible has several literary types; allegorical, historical, law, poetic, prophetic, epistle and proverbialI don't have that problem.If you are going to blame God for the bad, don't you think you should credit God for the good.No. I am saying God gave man a precious and rare gift.
Let’s thank the gods for that blueprint for the cancer cell. Not so rare or precious.
Assigning attributes to the gods such as "good" and "bad" puts the theist is quite a predicament.
The classic argument against the proposed attributes of gods (the omni's) show that the triune characteristics define a god that cannot possibly exist. One cannot be all good, all powerful and all knowing in any logical sense, at least not within the strictures of our present existence. The fact that there is suffering, death, and evil (if one is compelled to believe in things such as good and evil as concepts that exist as realities and not simply as human conventions), establishes that the gods, if they are to have created all, has allowed such things to exist in the first place. This is not consistent with omnibenvolence. If a thing is all good, then by definition there can be nothing evil about it; certainly it is incapable of creating anything that in and of itself can be considered evil.
The Bible has several literary types; allegorical, historical, law, poetic, prophetic, epistle and proverbial. I'm sure others may add or subtract to this list, but this is a pretty good start. When trying to understand the meaning of passages it is helpful to understand which literary type one is reading and also to place or read the passage in the proper historical light.
Let's start with the tree of knowledge of good and evil and the fall from grace. Genesis is allegorical. It starts with the allegorical account of Creation. After every step God would say "and it was good." So basically everything God created was good. Which makes sense because things like evil, darkness and cold or not extant. They don't exist on their own. They exist as the absence of something else. Cold is the absence of heat. Darkness is the absence of light. And evil is the absence of good.
Man knows right from wrong, but when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong, he rationalizes that he didn't violate it. After Adam and Eve had sinned and realized they were naked, they hid when they heard God coming. They hid because they knew that they had done wrong. Then when God asked point blank if they had done it, they rationalized that it wasn't their fault. Adam, did you eat the apple? The woman you made gave it to me. Eve did you eat the apple? The serpent deceived me.
Man is the only animal capable of knowledge of good and evil. No other creature has this concept. Sure animals can have empathy, but not like man. Animals function on impulse and instinct. Man functions on these too, but in man's case he has the unique ability to override his impulses and instinct for the sake of good. That is free will. It's a choice. Everything is choice.
I don't believe that Genesis is implying that had Adam and Eve never committed the original sin, we would live in paradise forever. I believe Genesis is saying that man has the capacity to do good and evil. So then the question begs why did God create such a world. I believe that that is an artifact of life. In other words, I don't believe God had a choice. It is part and parcel of the extant nature of good. I know people will howl that I said God had no choice but the reality is there are things God can't do. For instance, God can't oppose Himself; He can't go against His own nature.
So there are two very interesting things which come out of free will. One is that evil has the effect of making good better. It's like salt and sugar. Salt makes sugar taste sweeter. We are told elsewhere that He uses all things for the good of those who love Him. Among other things the Jews discovered is that there is meaning in suffering. 07 Judaism
The other interesting thing is that good has no meaning unless there is evil. In other words, it is not virtuous if you are forced to be virtuous.
In closing, man prefers good over evil. We don't do evil for evil's sake. We do evil for the sake of our own good and when we do, we rationalize that we didn't do evil. But from these acts, goodness will arise and we will be stronger for it. It is a self compensating feature whose sole purpose is to propel consciousness to the next rung in the anthropological ladder.
This sentence translated into modern English ~ The Bible is bullshit, or in nicer words, The Bible is a bunch of fairy tales.
There is no instrument sensitive enough on the face of the planet that could measure my lack of care for what you think.So you are taking an allegorical account of creation and extrapolating a claim of perfection. I already explained this to you.You know this how?Nature routinely finds suboptimal solutions that various gods would never choose.
The “evolutionary baggage” that all living organisms carry with them is among the most powerful evidence for evolution’s truth. And none of it is explicable if evolution had not occurred, and an “intelligent designer” had been involved. For why would an intelligent designer include anything that was “unnecessary” at all? It is only special creation that claims perfection. So you are actually arguing against your own beliefs here.
Evolution might “improve life” though it often does not. But only creation by god would be able to “perfect life.” And since living things are not perfect, if they are not the product of evolution then either one or more of the gods chose to create imperfect things, or they cannot create perfect things.
As to what is necessary and what is not is debatable. I don't believe any of it was unnecessary because everything is connected and serves a purpose.
I’m not convinced you are the final arbiter of what is allegorical and what is not with regard to biblical Genesis.
I suggest the creation story is all an allegory. What is more important: A god who clearly delivers his message upon which one's eternal salvation rests, or does he speak in riddles and poems, leaving open to interpretation what his intent is? What a risk he puts his children at, if the latter is the case! What if you "glean wrong"? What if the point is this (using the Christian perspective in this case) – God created the heavens and the Earth in 6 days and evolution is a heretical belief system that counters God's clear and unmuddled word that he alone is responsible for creation?
What if, since you've opened the door to allegory, the crucifixion and the resurrection are allegory as well? Offhand, I can really see the allegorical nature of the resurrection, that men die, go into the earth, but then live on-- this would explain for the gatherers and herders the idea of the cyclic nature of Nature, that we "live on" as part of God's greater creation. It's a nice allegory, isn't it?
I doubt any Christian theist would accept it as true, however.
Yes.Really, bro?Greco/Roman influence...sad.God, satan, archangels, angels, saints, etc. In Christianity there are lots of gods. Jesus made the apostles godsNo. Nature has no problem with singularities. Nature abhors a vacuum. Something will always come along to fill the void whether it be material or thought.Simple, there has to be many more than just one God. Nature does not like singularities.Why would you think there were more than one?
The force that created existence is not a committee. Maybe you are just getting confused by the Trinity. That seems to give some people problems. We both know you are just trying to confuse matters. That's what people like you do. So I guess on this subject you can assume my belief is that there is only one Creator and He cares not what you call Him. Fair enough?
Biblical Superpowers: Miracles in Acts of the Apostles - The Great Adventure Catholic Bible Study
We don’t claim to know. You do thoWhere did pre-cells come from?From pre-cellsWhere did it come from?YesIf you believe in evolution, do you believe a single celled creature just appeared to get the ball rolling?
