If only Abraham Lincoln had understood and obeyed the Constitution

[Sundance508]

No. Secession was always an option to any state. Then Lincoln killed the states.

Again, the Supreme court heard a case on that and ruled that the secessions that led to the Civil war were in fact illegal. The Supreme Court is empowered by the Constitution of the US to be the law of the land.

The only way you are able to say secession was Constitutional, is to burn the Constitution.

Go to the bill of rights and check out the 10th amendment and decide for your self. Loosely quoted I believe it states that any powers not specifically given to the Federal government reside in the state government.

That means that if it ain't covered in the constitution (secession was not) then the states can decide to do exactly what they did.

So yes they had the right to secede because it was not forbidden by the government and the war was unjustly prosecuted by the North as a result.

 

[Slash]

Go to the bill of rights and check out the 10th amendment and decide for your self. Loosely quoted I believe it states that any powers not specifically given to the Federal government reside in the state government.

That means that if it ain't covered in the constitution (secession was not) then the states can decide to do exactly what they did.

So yes they had the right to secede because it was not forbidden by the government and the war was unjustly prosecuted by the North as a result.

Yes it does say that. And the Supreme Court decided that the Constitution said that the secession that preceded the civil war was not allowed in the Constitution.

So therefore the 10th amendment doesn't apply.

That's the law of the land, the Constitution gave the Supreme court the power to make that decision.

Only way to take that power away... burn the US Constitution.

 

[gipper]

The statist wants to use FORCE to make sure you are controlled. They will murder you to keep you, like a murderous estranged husband. They are proud of this. CRAZY.

 

[gipper]

No. Secession was always an option to any state. Then Lincoln killed the states.

Again, the Supreme court heard a case on that and ruled that the secessions that led to the Civil war were in fact illegal. The Supreme Court is empowered by the Constitution of the US to be the law of the land.

The only way you are able to say secession was Constitutional, is to burn the Constitution.

Damn that is dumb , but sadly you don’t know why.

Statists ugh!

 

[Slash]

Damn that is dumb , but sadly you don’t know why.

Statists ugh!

Funny part is your argument. Your only way to make it Constitutional... is to rip up the Constitution. You are in a catch 22 there aren't ya?

 

[Sundance508]

The text of the 10th Amendment is:

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. Comment: The Tenth Amendment restates a fundamental constitutional rule: If a particular power was not assigned to the federal government by the Constitution itself, then the states may exercise the power, unless the Constitution also prohibits the states from exercising it. The Tenth Amendment also states that people are free to act, without permission of the federal government, in areas outside the scope of the federal government's powers. It is actually the 11th amendment The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

 

[gipper]

Damn that is dumb , but sadly you don’t know why.

Statists ugh!

Funny part is your argument. Your only way to make it Constitutional... is to rip up the Constitution. You are in a catch 22 there aren't ya?

It is clear to those who have studied it, secession was always believed to be a state’s right before your beloved Lincoln killed the states. It is funny how you statists think the Union is perpetual and will murder those who wish to leave in peace. Nothing is perpetual.

 

[MaryL]

"There would have been no war, no bloodshed, no sacking of towns and cities, no desolation, no billions of treasure expended, on either side, and no millions of lives sacrificed in the unnatural and fratricidal strife; there would have none of the present troubles about restoration, or reconstruction; but, instead of these lamentable scenes, a new spectacle of wonder would have been presented for the guide and instruction of the astonished Nations of the earth, greater than that exhibited after the Nullification pacification, of the matchless workings of our American Institutions of Self-government by the people!"
Alexander Hamilton Stephens, 1868

I can hear the demented, the liberals, and the politically correct progressives lamenting already.....(but we had to free the slaves) forgetting if they ever knew what that yankee --White Sumpremacist Lincoln said regarding that... ... "If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that."

The majority of people back then believed and the more astute and intelligent today, still believe and (those who are knowledegable regarding genetics) understand that Negroes were designed by Nature(Creator) to be slaves; that they were part of a 'degraded caste' meant to serve the rest of humanity...and of course any advanced civilization must have servants(at least until robots are able to assume that role)....a glaring hypocrisy in America today is that we are perfectly o.k. with illegal mexican immigrants being our servants...but our historical servants are too entitled by their supposed victimhood to serve in such roles any longer....mostly democrats that think like that..... also believing in the concept of 'the democrat plantation' as in keep the Negroes on the dole so they will always vote for the democrat.

Most Southerners based the legitamacy of slavery (it had been legal for thousands of years) on the Bible....which from Genesis to Revelation sanctions slavery.

Lincoln's disdain for Negroes was based on his own deep seated dislike of all non-white peoples, whom he typically referred to as 'inferior races'. Lincoln publically and quite often called blacks '*******' aka the infamous n woid(of which only negroes are allowed to use today) and mexicans 'mongrels'. Besides, Lincoln could not use the Bible to justify his beliefs: he was a self-proclaimed atheist and anti-Christian.

Mr. Lincoln's religious views.................
by William Herndon---Mr. Lincoln's best and lifelong friend.
The following letter appeared, in 1870, in the Index, a journal published in Toledo, Ohio.
:

Abraham Lincoln's Religious Views

What If There Was No Civil War?

"The past is never dead. It's not even past." ... Faulkner.

The south were traitors. They were rebels. The very thing America was founded on. Accept they were about protecting slavery, that's the issue that tears at our souls even now. Lincoln didn't like blacks, I think he knew that was a flaw as well as the rest of us. Too bad the secessionists didn't grasp that basic fact.

 

[gipper]

Demolishing the Lincoln Myth:

'Lincoln mythology is the ideological cornerstone of American statism. He was in reality the most hated of all American presidents during his lifetime according to an excellent book by historian Larry Tagg entitled The Unpopular Mr. Lincoln: America’s Most Reviled President. He was so hated in the North that the New York Times editorialized a wish that he would be assassinated. This is perfectly understandable: He illegally suspended Habeas Corpus and imprisoned tens of thousands of Northern political critics without due process; shut down over 300 opposition newspapers; committed treason by invading the Southern states (Article 3, Section 3 of the Constitution defines treason as “only levying war upon the states” or “giving aid and comfort to their enemies,” which of course is exactly what Lincoln did). He enforced military conscription with the murder of hundreds of New York City draft protesters in 1863 and with the mass execution of deserters from his army. He deported a congressional critic (Democratic Congressman Clement Vallandigham of Ohio); confiscated firearms; and issued an arrest warrant for the Chief Justice when the jurist issued an opinion that only Congress could legally suspend Habeas Corpus. He waged an unnecessary war (all other countries ended slavery peacefully in that century) that resulted in the death of as many as 850,000 Americans according to new research published in the last two years. Standardizing for today’s population, that would be similar to 8.5 million American deaths in a four-year war'.



“Lincoln is theology, not historiology. He is a faith, he is a church, he is a religion, and he has his own priests and acolytes, most of whom . . . are passionately opposed to anybody telling the truth about him . . . with rare exceptions, you can’t believe what any major Lincoln scholar tells you about Abraham Lincoln and race.”

–Lerone Bennett, Jr., Forced into Glory, p. 114

So true, but statists like to kill to keep the state in power.

 

[Sundance508]

"[Slavery] was established by decree of Almighty God...it is sanctioned in the Bible, in both Testaments, from Genesis to Revelation...it has existed in all ages, has been found among the people of the highest civilization, and in nations of the highest proficiency in the arts." Jefferson Davis, President, Confederate States of America (Jefferson Davis, "Inaugural Address as Provisional President of the Confederacy," Montgomery, AL, 1861-FEB-18, Confederate States of America, Congressional Journal, 1:64-66.)

The ONLY mention of slavery in the New Testament. When Paul tells Philemon to treat a slave, not as a slave but a brother in Christ. That's the only one. So whatever bible you are reading.... not a bible.

Again, you pick and choose which OT laws you want to follow. The definition of a hypocrite.

Again, what denomination are you?

Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.
1 Peter 2:18 (NIV)

Biblical Underpinning for Slavery
For many centuries slavery was perfectly acceptable to Christians. Christians had no doubt that it was divinely sanctioned, and they used a number of Old and New Testament quotations to prove their case. Looking at the relevant passages it is clear that the Bible does indeed endorse slavery. In the Old Testament God approved the practice and laid down rules for buyers and sellers (Exodus 21:1-11, Leviticus 25:44). Men are at liberty to sell their own daughters (Exodus 21:7). Slaves can be inherited (Leviticus 25:45-6). It is acceptable to beat slaves, since they are property — a master who beats his slave to death is not to be punished as long as the slave stays alive for a day or two, as the loss of the master's property is punishment enough:

And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money. Exodus 21:20-211

If a slave is gored by a bull, it is the master, not the slave, who is to be compensated (Exodus 21:32). Time and time again the Old Testament confirms that slaves are property and their lives are of little consequence. To prove the strength of Job's faith, God sends Satan to test him by visiting disasters upon him. Amongst these disasters is the killing of Job's numerous slaves (Job 1). Neither God, nor Satan, nor the story's narrator finds it at all odd that people should be killed just to prove a point: they are only Job's property and their destruction is naturally bracketed with the loss of his livestock and vineyards.

The New Testament also regards slavery as acceptable. It instructs slaves to accept their position with humility (Ephesians 6:5-8) and to please their masters in everything (Titus 2:9, cf. Colossians 3:22). They are commanded to serve Christian slave owners better than other masters (1 Timothy 6:1-2) "so that the name of God and the teaching may not be defamed". Even oppressive masters are to be obeyed according to 1 Peter 2:18. Jesus himself mentioned slavery more than once according to the New Testament, but never with the slightest hint of criticism of it. He even glorified the master-slave relationship as a model of the relationship between God and humankind (Matthew 18:23ff and 25:14ff). Christians naturally interpreted this as not merely acceptance, but approval. If Jesus had opposed slavery he would have said so. .

 

[gipper]

"There would have been no war, no bloodshed, no sacking of towns and cities, no desolation, no billions of treasure expended, on either side, and no millions of lives sacrificed in the unnatural and fratricidal strife; there would have none of the present troubles about restoration, or reconstruction; but, instead of these lamentable scenes, a new spectacle of wonder would have been presented for the guide and instruction of the astonished Nations of the earth, greater than that exhibited after the Nullification pacification, of the matchless workings of our American Institutions of Self-government by the people!"
Alexander Hamilton Stephens, 1868

I can hear the demented, the liberals, and the politically correct progressives lamenting already.....(but we had to free the slaves) forgetting if they ever knew what that yankee --White Sumpremacist Lincoln said regarding that... ... "If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that."

The majority of people back then believed and the more astute and intelligent today, still believe and (those who are knowledegable regarding genetics) understand that Negroes were designed by Nature(Creator) to be slaves; that they were part of a 'degraded caste' meant to serve the rest of humanity...and of course any advanced civilization must have servants(at least until robots are able to assume that role)....a glaring hypocrisy in America today is that we are perfectly o.k. with illegal mexican immigrants being our servants...but our historical servants are too entitled by their supposed victimhood to serve in such roles any longer....mostly democrats that think like that..... also believing in the concept of 'the democrat plantation' as in keep the Negroes on the dole so they will always vote for the democrat.

Most Southerners based the legitamacy of slavery (it had been legal for thousands of years) on the Bible....which from Genesis to Revelation sanctions slavery.

Lincoln's disdain for Negroes was based on his own deep seated dislike of all non-white peoples, whom he typically referred to as 'inferior races'. Lincoln publically and quite often called blacks '*******' aka the infamous n woid(of which only negroes are allowed to use today) and mexicans 'mongrels'. Besides, Lincoln could not use the Bible to justify his beliefs: he was a self-proclaimed atheist and anti-Christian.

Mr. Lincoln's religious views.................
by William Herndon---Mr. Lincoln's best and lifelong friend.
The following letter appeared, in 1870, in the Index, a journal published in Toledo, Ohio.
:

Abraham Lincoln's Religious Views

What If There Was No Civil War?

"The past is never dead. It's not even past." ... Faulkner.

The south were traitors. They were rebels. The very thing America was founded on. Accept they were about protecting slavery, that's the issue that tears at our souls even now. Lincoln didn't like blacks, I think he knew that was a flaw as well as the rest of us. Too bad the secessionists didn't grasp that basic fact.

Slavery was wrong and terrible.

Funny... but nearly every nation abolished it without bloodshed but one. You can thank Dishonest Abe for that.

850k dead Americans, half the nation in ruins, and lead to decades of racial strife. Was it worth it when you consider the federal government could have ended slavery for much less peacefully?

 

[Sundance508]

I am getting a little tired of having to explain everything to you....study up....do some research and then get back with us. This board is in dire need of a better brand of liberal.

 

[MaryL]

Why DID the south secede? It might lend credence if they actually had a moral reason for it. Because of the rising tide of abolition? Or that states rights? States rights? To what? Preserve their right to own slaves?

 

[Slash]

The text of the 10th Amendment is:

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. Comment: The Tenth Amendment restates a fundamental constitutional rule: If a particular power was not assigned to the federal government by the Constitution itself, then the states may exercise the power, unless the Constitution also prohibits the states from exercising it. The Tenth Amendment also states that people are free to act, without permission of the federal government, in areas outside the scope of the federal government's powers. It is actually the 11th amendment The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

And again, the Supreme Court said that the Constitution made secession illegal. Therefore secession was not a power given to the states. Therefore the 10th amendment had no bearing.

For someone who pretends to know history, you seem pretty weak on the subject. Bet ya know the FUCK out of that 1940's german history though huh?

 

[MaryL]

Forgive me, what WAS the Confederates states of America created for, and what were they protecting? Let's clarify this issue one and for all.

 

[Slash]

Slavery was wrong and terrible.

Funny... but nearly every nation abolished it without bloodshed but one. You can thank Dishonest Abe for that.

850k dead Americans, half the nation in ruins, and lead to decades of racial strife. Was it worth it when you consider the federal government could have ended slavery for much less peacefully?

Actually only one country was attempted to be formed in the history of the world based on their desire to practice and spread slavery.

And yes. I think it was worth it. Wish the South hadn't felt slavery was that worth protecting, but they did. Might have ended peacefully but who knows how many generations later.

 

[Slash]

I am getting a little tired of having to explain everything to you....study up....do some research and then get back with us. This board is in dire need of a better brand of liberal.

Actually I am a conservative. Just one who opposes slavery and those white nationalist nazi twats.

 

[Sundance508]

"There would have been no war, no bloodshed, no sacking of towns and cities, no desolation, no billions of treasure expended, on either side, and no millions of lives sacrificed in the unnatural and fratricidal strife; there would have none of the present troubles about restoration, or reconstruction; but, instead of these lamentable scenes, a new spectacle of wonder would have been presented for the guide and instruction of the astonished Nations of the earth, greater than that exhibited after the Nullification pacification, of the matchless workings of our American Institutions of Self-government by the people!"
Alexander Hamilton Stephens, 1868

I can hear the demented, the liberals, and the politically correct progressives lamenting already.....(but we had to free the slaves) forgetting if they ever knew what that yankee --White Sumpremacist Lincoln said regarding that... ... "If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that."

The majority of people back then believed and the more astute and intelligent today, still believe and (those who are knowledegable regarding genetics) understand that Negroes were designed by Nature(Creator) to be slaves; that they were part of a 'degraded caste' meant to serve the rest of humanity...and of course any advanced civilization must have servants(at least until robots are able to assume that role)....a glaring hypocrisy in America today is that we are perfectly o.k. with illegal mexican immigrants being our servants...but our historical servants are too entitled by their supposed victimhood to serve in such roles any longer....mostly democrats that think like that..... also believing in the concept of 'the democrat plantation' as in keep the Negroes on the dole so they will always vote for the democrat.

Most Southerners based the legitamacy of slavery (it had been legal for thousands of years) on the Bible....which from Genesis to Revelation sanctions slavery.

Lincoln's disdain for Negroes was based on his own deep seated dislike of all non-white peoples, whom he typically referred to as 'inferior races'. Lincoln publically and quite often called blacks '*******' aka the infamous n woid(of which only negroes are allowed to use today) and mexicans 'mongrels'. Besides, Lincoln could not use the Bible to justify his beliefs: he was a self-proclaimed atheist and anti-Christian.

Mr. Lincoln's religious views.................
by William Herndon---Mr. Lincoln's best and lifelong friend.
The following letter appeared, in 1870, in the Index, a journal published in Toledo, Ohio.
:

Abraham Lincoln's Religious Views

What If There Was No Civil War?

"The past is never dead. It's not even past." ... Faulkner.

The south were traitors. They were rebels. The very thing America was founded on. Accept they were about protecting slavery, that's the issue that tears at our souls even now. Lincoln didn't like blacks, I think he knew that was a flaw as well as the rest of us. Too bad the secessionists didn't grasp that basic fact.

Slavery was wrong and terrible.

Funny... but nearly every nation abolished it without bloodshed but one. You can thank Dishonest Abe for that.

850k dead Americans, half the nation in ruins, and lead to decades of racial strife. Was it worth it when you consider the federal government could have ended slavery for much less peacefully?

Slavery is not the great evil that liberals would have us believe...other wise the Holy Scriptures would have condemned it.

Every advanced civilization must have 'servants' which is how Southerners referred to their Negroes....The Federal Government in stages took away the nations traditional servant class....the Negroes....and then hypocritically replaced them with illegal mexicans...who come up here(who can begrudge them) to work in conditions of servitude...with no rights...even working for less than the minimum wage...the old system of servitude was better for the Negroes--there were many jobs back then for them ......but now they have an outrageous level of unemployment...especially the younger ones who usually have rap sheets longer than their arms by the time they are passed through High School. That is the kind of results liberal do gooders produce.

 

[Slash]

You see. Once the Supreme Court ruled that the US Constitution is what made the secession illegal, the 10th amendment no longer mattered. Because that ONLY comes into play if the Constitution doesn't answer the question if slavery is legal or not.

It did. According to the Supreme Court, which the Constitution says is the law of the land. So unless you revoke the Supreme Courts power (by destroying the Constitution) you are stuck with that.

 

[Slash]

Slavery is not the great evil that liberals would have us believe...other wise the Holy Scriptures would have condemned it.

Every advanced civilization must have 'servants' which is how Southerners referred to their Negroes....The Federal Government in stages took away the nations traditional servant class....the Negroes....and then hypocritically replaced them with illegal mexicans...who come up here(who can begrudge them) to work in conditions of servitude...with no rights...even working for less than the minimum wage...the old system of servitude was better for the Negroes--there were many jobs back then for them ......but now they have an outrageous level of unemployment...especially the younger ones who usually have rap sheets longer than their arms by the time they are passed through High School. That is the kind of results liberal do gooders produce.

No, southerners didn't refer to their slaves as "servants". Not one article of secession mentioned them as anything but slaves. Servants would mean they were people.

QUIT TRYING TO REWRITE HISTORY TO TELL A NEW STORY YOU LIKE.

And yes. Slavery is bad. Nazi and KKK logic is retarded. Stop being retarded.