If the gop can actually say yes to 1trillion and not raise ANY taxes or appropriate more money, Biden should say yes

And how bad can debt be?

St Trumpy built a real estate empire based entirely on debt and His sycophants claim He was the best president ever?
..and how many times did Donny go bankrupt? You sure you want to use him as an example of how to make debt work on a national scale?

I'm all for thinking outside the box but I'm not sure going Taj Mahal Resort with our already broken national finances is the way forward.
Neither is borrowing your way to prosperity.
You actually can do that , if you borrow at X rate and then invest that borrowed money with a return at X + Y + rate of inflation, rate.

The Federal Government doesn't do that most of the time though, it borrows at X rate and gets a return of ZERO, sometimes they actually get less than ZERO returns since the borrowing actually ends up inhibiting economic activity and efficiency.
Been through these boom and bust cycles and it can't be done. You can borrow, but at some point you have to deal with the pain of payback. There are no magic beans.
 
And how bad can debt be?

St Trumpy built a real estate empire based entirely on debt and His sycophants claim He was the best president ever?
..and how many times did Donny go bankrupt? You sure you want to use him as an example of how to make debt work on a national scale?

I'm all for thinking outside the box but I'm not sure going Taj Mahal Resort with our already broken national finances is the way forward.
Neither is borrowing your way to prosperity.
You actually can do that , if you borrow at X rate and then invest that borrowed money with a return at X + Y + rate of inflation, rate.

The Federal Government doesn't do that most of the time though, it borrows at X rate and gets a return of ZERO, sometimes they actually get less than ZERO returns since the borrowing actually ends up inhibiting economic activity and efficiency.
Been through these boom and bust cycles and it can't be done. You can borrow, but at some point you have to deal with the pain of payback. There are no magic beans.
Sure there is, borrow some beans at say 1% and get a return of say 5% on that money, successful businesses and wealthy individuals do it all the time. You lose if you take stupid risks but with prudence it's fairly safe.

It's how banks used to make most of their money before they started acting like giant derivative casinos. :)
 
And how bad can debt be?

St Trumpy built a real estate empire based entirely on debt and His sycophants claim He was the best president ever?
..and how many times did Donny go bankrupt? You sure you want to use him as an example of how to make debt work on a national scale?

I'm all for thinking outside the box but I'm not sure going Taj Mahal Resort with our already broken national finances is the way forward.
Neither is borrowing your way to prosperity.
You actually can do that , if you borrow at X rate and then invest that borrowed money with a return at X + Y + rate of inflation, rate.

The Federal Government doesn't do that most of the time though, it borrows at X rate and gets a return of ZERO, sometimes they actually get less than ZERO returns since the borrowing actually ends up inhibiting economic activity and efficiency.
Been through these boom and bust cycles and it can't be done. You can borrow, but at some point you have to deal with the pain of payback. There are no magic beans.
Sure there is, borrow some beans at say 1% and get a return of say 5% on that money, successful businesses and wealthy individuals do it all the time. You lose if you take stupid risks but with prudence it's fairly safe.

It's how banks used to make most of their money before they started acting like giant derivative casinos. :)
Good trick if you can do it. Back in the 50s and 60s you could borrow money for 5 or 6% but you could also get 5 or 6% compound interest on savings. In the 70s and 80s you could get 12-15% on junk bonds (if they lasted until maturity) but a mortgage would cost 15-18% and up. Since the turn of the century, you're lucky if you can get .5% on your savings. Borrowing also has better interest rates now. I am not saying that there are not ways to make money for prudent investors, but if you think you're going to borrow 100K and prosper from it, you are sorely mistaken unless you purchase something with real value that will appreciate more than the money is costing you.
 
And how bad can debt be?

St Trumpy built a real estate empire based entirely on debt and His sycophants claim He was the best president ever?
..and how many times did Donny go bankrupt? You sure you want to use him as an example of how to make debt work on a national scale?

I'm all for thinking outside the box but I'm not sure going Taj Mahal Resort with our already broken national finances is the way forward.
Neither is borrowing your way to prosperity.
You actually can do that , if you borrow at X rate and then invest that borrowed money with a return at X + Y + rate of inflation, rate.

The Federal Government doesn't do that most of the time though, it borrows at X rate and gets a return of ZERO, sometimes they actually get less than ZERO returns since the borrowing actually ends up inhibiting economic activity and efficiency.
Been through these boom and bust cycles and it can't be done. You can borrow, but at some point you have to deal with the pain of payback. There are no magic beans.
Sure there is, borrow some beans at say 1% and get a return of say 5% on that money, successful businesses and wealthy individuals do it all the time. You lose if you take stupid risks but with prudence it's fairly safe.

It's how banks used to make most of their money before they started acting like giant derivative casinos. :)
Good trick if you can do it. Back in the 50s and 60s you could borrow money for 5 or 6% but you could also get 5 or 6% compound interest on savings. In the 70s and 80s you could get 12-15% on junk bonds (if they lasted until maturity) but a mortgage would cost 15-18% and up. Since the turn of the century, you're lucky if you can get .5% on your savings. Borrowing also has better interest rates now. I am not saying that there are not ways to make money for prudent investors, but if you think you're going to borrow 100K and prosper from it, you are sorely mistaken unless you purchase something with real value that will appreciate more than the money is costing you.
That’s exactly what I’ve been saying, the “real value” is anything that’s going to provide you with a return that’s higher than the rate your paying + the rate of inflation (and compensates you appropriately for the risk you’re taking).

That could be anything, stocks, bonds, a factory, a savings account, whatever, as long as the return fits the bill and the risk/reward makes sense, so you see you CAN borrow your way to prosperity. The sad part is most people don’t use debt that way, they use it to increase their CONSUMPTION (which just makes all the borrow for investment gang richer).
 
Even if it means dropping most of the "human infrastructure" which was imo bs anyway

“We are anxious to have a bipartisan agreement,” Capito told reporters on Capitol Hill.

A GOP aide who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss the private talks said the price tag would be $1 trillion over eight years, paid for by tapping funds that have been allocated as part of COVID-19 relief but not yet spent. The aide said about $700 billion remains in unspent virus aid.
You know taxes are going up if Biden has his way!
Taxes went up when Joe undid Trump's tax cut....I think that was on day one....

Which would take both houses of Congress to approve...meaning..it didn't happen. :)
Wake up!
You should wake up...so that you are not surprised next April 15th....

your own link is to "proposed" hikes. Personally I agree with gop thought that Joe doesn't have the votes. The real proplem is added defict, but the gop's tax cuts grew them. Supposedly we should see annual growth over 5% annually for the rest of 21, and that would restrain deficit
Proposed by Biden and the dems that have a majority in both houses...don't put it out of the realm of possibility...look what else they got passed....
Don't count unhatched chickens. Machin and Sienna aren't going for the whole enchilada, But they shouldn't spend new social and annual spending with deficit dollars. That's a gop tactic. LOL
Dems have a way of holding together even when it means the end to America as we know it....remember they don't read bills they just fall in line behind Pelosi....
 
Even if it means dropping most of the "human infrastructure" which was imo bs anyway

“We are anxious to have a bipartisan agreement,” Capito told reporters on Capitol Hill.

A GOP aide who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss the private talks said the price tag would be $1 trillion over eight years, paid for by tapping funds that have been allocated as part of COVID-19 relief but not yet spent. The aide said about $700 billion remains in unspent virus aid.

So many bad ideas rolled into one:

1. Biden does not want the infrastructure bill to add to the deficit, therefore "no new taxes" is a no-go, in addition to being fiscally irresponsible.

2. Not clawing back the VERY excessive tax cut is a BAD idea. The USA currently has lowest corporate taxes in the first world, while having the MOST expensive government in the first world. These two things are not mutually compatible to long term fiscal stability.

3. Fully 50% of the Fortune 500 Companies paid $0 corporate income taxes, last year, while booking record profits, and getting massive amounts of covid bailout money. Specifically privately owned hotel and restaurant chains, cruise ship lines, airlines, and other jobs that are not really coming back.77
 
Even if it means dropping most of the "human infrastructure" which was imo bs anyway

“We are anxious to have a bipartisan agreement,” Capito told reporters on Capitol Hill.

A GOP aide who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss the private talks said the price tag would be $1 trillion over eight years, paid for by tapping funds that have been allocated as part of COVID-19 relief but not yet spent. The aide said about $700 billion remains in unspent virus aid.
You know taxes are going up if Biden has his way!
Taxes went up when Joe undid Trump's tax cut....I think that was on day one....

Which would take both houses of Congress to approve...meaning..it didn't happen. :)
Wake up!
You should wake up...so that you are not surprised next April 15th....

your own link is to "proposed" hikes. Personally I agree with gop thought that Joe doesn't have the votes. The real proplem is added defict, but the gop's tax cuts grew them. Supposedly we should see annual growth over 5% annually for the rest of 21, and that would restrain deficit
Proposed by Biden and the dems that have a majority in both houses...don't put it out of the realm of possibility...look what else they got passed....
Don't count unhatched chickens. Machin and Sienna aren't going for the whole enchilada, But they shouldn't spend new social and annual spending with deficit dollars. That's a gop tactic. LOL
Dems have a way of holding together even when it means the end to America as we know it....remember they don't read bills they just fall in line behind Pelosi....

The end to America as you know it. America as you know it ended on January 21, 2106. With any luck, Biden will be able to build it back better, but there are only so many times you can crash the economy and get it back on the rails.
 
Even if it means dropping most of the "human infrastructure" which was imo bs anyway

“We are anxious to have a bipartisan agreement,” Capito told reporters on Capitol Hill.

A GOP aide who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss the private talks said the price tag would be $1 trillion over eight years, paid for by tapping funds that have been allocated as part of COVID-19 relief but not yet spent. The aide said about $700 billion remains in unspent virus aid.
You know taxes are going up if Biden has his way!
Taxes went up when Joe undid Trump's tax cut....I think that was on day one....

Which would take both houses of Congress to approve...meaning..it didn't happen. :)
Wake up!
You should wake up...so that you are not surprised next April 15th....

your own link is to "proposed" hikes. Personally I agree with gop thought that Joe doesn't have the votes. The real proplem is added defict, but the gop's tax cuts grew them. Supposedly we should see annual growth over 5% annually for the rest of 21, and that would restrain deficit
Proposed by Biden and the dems that have a majority in both houses...don't put it out of the realm of possibility...look what else they got passed....
Don't count unhatched chickens. Machin and Sienna aren't going for the whole enchilada, But they shouldn't spend new social and annual spending with deficit dollars. That's a gop tactic. LOL
Dems have a way of holding together even when it means the end to America as we know it....remember they don't read bills they just fall in line behind Pelosi....

The end to America as you know it. America as you know it ended on January 21, 2106. With any luck, Biden will be able to build it back better, but there are only so many times you can crash the economy and get it back on the rails.
Heil Biden....socialist trash....
 
Even if it means dropping most of the "human infrastructure" which was imo bs anyway

“We are anxious to have a bipartisan agreement,” Capito told reporters on Capitol Hill.

A GOP aide who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss the private talks said the price tag would be $1 trillion over eight years, paid for by tapping funds that have been allocated as part of COVID-19 relief but not yet spent. The aide said about $700 billion remains in unspent virus aid.
You know taxes are going up if Biden has his way!
I hate to say it but Corporate Taxes need to go up just to offset some of what our boy & girls in Washington have blown already, not to mention that payroll taxes need to rise if we’re going to avoid seeing DRACONIAN cuts in SS benefits in the next decade.

The bastards have put us in a no win situation with all the reckless spending, either we start paying for it now or we’re going to be paying A LOT more in taxes later, kicking the can down the road is coming to end.
Corporations do NOT pay taxes. They merely pass the cost along to the consumer in increased prices to maintain their profit margin. How many times did you flunk ECON 101?
 
Even if it means dropping most of the "human infrastructure" which was imo bs anyway

“We are anxious to have a bipartisan agreement,” Capito told reporters on Capitol Hill.

A GOP aide who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss the private talks said the price tag would be $1 trillion over eight years, paid for by tapping funds that have been allocated as part of COVID-19 relief but not yet spent. The aide said about $700 billion remains in unspent virus aid.
You know taxes are going up if Biden has his way!
Taxes went up when Joe undid Trump's tax cut....I think that was on day one....

Are you really this ill-informed and ignorant. Trump's tax cut is LAW, and you can only undo a law passed by Congress, but passing a NEW law. You're arguing on a political discussion board about government without the vaguest clue of how your own government works????? Are you really an American and you don't KNOW this????

Joe cannot "undo" a tax cut law without passing a new tax law.
 
Even if it means dropping most of the "human infrastructure" which was imo bs anyway

“We are anxious to have a bipartisan agreement,” Capito told reporters on Capitol Hill.

A GOP aide who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss the private talks said the price tag would be $1 trillion over eight years, paid for by tapping funds that have been allocated as part of COVID-19 relief but not yet spent. The aide said about $700 billion remains in unspent virus aid.
You know taxes are going up if Biden has his way!
I hate to say it but Corporate Taxes need to go up just to offset some of what our boy & girls in Washington have blown already, not to mention that payroll taxes need to rise if we’re going to avoid seeing DRACONIAN cuts in SS benefits in the next decade.

The bastards have put us in a no win situation with all the reckless spending, either we start paying for it now or we’re going to be paying A LOT more in taxes later, kicking the can down the road is coming to end.
Corporations do NOT pay taxes. They merely pass the cost along to the consumer in increased prices to maintain their profit margin. How many times did you flunk ECON 101?

Yes the DO pay taxes, you dithering dolt. And they SHOULD pay taxes since major corporations need educated workers, transportation systems, and protection in foreign countries making them more dependent on first world government services that any other consumer group, and they pay the least for it.

Work and working people built the USA. Republicans continue to give the fruits of YOUR work, to the wealthy, 60% of whom, do NOT work. The people getting "free shit" are not the working poor, it's those living off their inheritance while contributing nothing.
 
Even if it means dropping most of the "human infrastructure" which was imo bs anyway

“We are anxious to have a bipartisan agreement,” Capito told reporters on Capitol Hill.

A GOP aide who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss the private talks said the price tag would be $1 trillion over eight years, paid for by tapping funds that have been allocated as part of COVID-19 relief but not yet spent. The aide said about $700 billion remains in unspent virus aid.
You know taxes are going up if Biden has his way!
I hate to say it but Corporate Taxes need to go up just to offset some of what our boy & girls in Washington have blown already, not to mention that payroll taxes need to rise if we’re going to avoid seeing DRACONIAN cuts in SS benefits in the next decade.

The bastards have put us in a no win situation with all the reckless spending, either we start paying for it now or we’re going to be paying A LOT more in taxes later, kicking the can down the road is coming to end.
Corporations do NOT pay taxes. They merely pass the cost along to the consumer in increased prices to maintain their profit margin. How many times did you flunk ECON 101?
Would said anything about who pays corporate taxes?

Is your inability to carry on a civil and rational conversation genetic or psychological? :rolleyes:

Welcome to /dev/null
 
Even if it means dropping most of the "human infrastructure" which was imo bs anyway

“We are anxious to have a bipartisan agreement,” Capito told reporters on Capitol Hill.

A GOP aide who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss the private talks said the price tag would be $1 trillion over eight years, paid for by tapping funds that have been allocated as part of COVID-19 relief but not yet spent. The aide said about $700 billion remains in unspent virus aid.
You know taxes are going up if Biden has his way!
Taxes went up when Joe undid Trump's tax cut....I think that was on day one....

Which would take both houses of Congress to approve...meaning..it didn't happen. :)
Wake up!
You should wake up...so that you are not surprised next April 15th....

your own link is to "proposed" hikes. Personally I agree with gop thought that Joe doesn't have the votes. The real proplem is added defict, but the gop's tax cuts grew them. Supposedly we should see annual growth over 5% annually for the rest of 21, and that would restrain deficit
Proposed by Biden and the dems that have a majority in both houses...don't put it out of the realm of possibility...look what else they got passed....
Don't count unhatched chickens. Machin and Sienna aren't going for the whole enchilada, But they shouldn't spend new social and annual spending with deficit dollars. That's a gop tactic. LOL
Dems have a way of holding together even when it means the end to America as we know it....remember they don't read bills they just fall in line behind Pelosi....

The end to America as you know it. America as you know it ended on January 21, 2106. With any luck, Biden will be able to build it back better, but there are only so many times you can crash the economy and get it back on the rails.
2106? What calendar are you using?
 
Even if it means dropping most of the "human infrastructure" which was imo bs anyway

“We are anxious to have a bipartisan agreement,” Capito told reporters on Capitol Hill.

A GOP aide who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss the private talks said the price tag would be $1 trillion over eight years, paid for by tapping funds that have been allocated as part of COVID-19 relief but not yet spent. The aide said about $700 billion remains in unspent virus aid.
You know taxes are going up if Biden has his way!
Taxes went up when Joe undid Trump's tax cut....I think that was on day one....

Are you really this ill-informed and ignorant. Trump's tax cut is LAW, and you can only undo a law passed by Congress, but passing a NEW law. You're arguing on a political discussion board about government without the vaguest clue of how your own government works????? Are you really an American and you don't KNOW this????

Joe cannot "undo" a tax cut law without passing a new tax law.
Joe has the house and the senate and an urge to undo anything and everything Trump has done....he stated he will push a spending bill that undoes Trump's tax cut...so who is un informed?....I think you may be the one that has not kept up....besides don't you want Trump's tax cut overturned?...why are you taking this point?....
 
Even if it means dropping most of the "human infrastructure" which was imo bs anyway

“We are anxious to have a bipartisan agreement,” Capito told reporters on Capitol Hill.

A GOP aide who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss the private talks said the price tag would be $1 trillion over eight years, paid for by tapping funds that have been allocated as part of COVID-19 relief but not yet spent. The aide said about $700 billion remains in unspent virus aid.
You know taxes are going up if Biden has his way!
I hate to say it but Corporate Taxes need to go up just to offset some of what our boy & girls in Washington have blown already, not to mention that payroll taxes need to rise if we’re going to avoid seeing DRACONIAN cuts in SS benefits in the next decade.

The bastards have put us in a no win situation with all the reckless spending, either we start paying for it now or we’re going to be paying A LOT more in taxes later, kicking the can down the road is coming to end.
Corporations do NOT pay taxes. They merely pass the cost along to the consumer in increased prices to maintain their profit margin. How many times did you flunk ECON 101?
Would said anything about who pays corporate taxes?

Is your inability to carry on a civil and rational conversation genetic or psychological? :rolleyes:

Welcome to /dev/null
You said we should raise corporate taxes. Why not just cut to the chase and do something stupid like raise income taxes and put all the costs on taxpayers instead those in the half that do not pay any taxes at all? That's the kind of retarded thinking I would expect from a liberal airhead.
 
Even if it means dropping most of the "human infrastructure" which was imo bs anyway

“We are anxious to have a bipartisan agreement,” Capito told reporters on Capitol Hill.

A GOP aide who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss the private talks said the price tag would be $1 trillion over eight years, paid for by tapping funds that have been allocated as part of COVID-19 relief but not yet spent. The aide said about $700 billion remains in unspent virus aid.
You know taxes are going up if Biden has his way!
Taxes went up when Joe undid Trump's tax cut....I think that was on day one....

Are you really this ill-informed and ignorant. Trump's tax cut is LAW, and you can only undo a law passed by Congress, but passing a NEW law. You're arguing on a political discussion board about government without the vaguest clue of how your own government works????? Are you really an American and you don't KNOW this????

Joe cannot "undo" a tax cut law without passing a new tax law.
Joe has the house and the senate and an urge to undo anything and everything Trump has done....he stated he will push a spending bill that undoes Trump's tax cut...so who is un informed?....I think you may be the one that has not kept up....besides don't you want Trump's tax cut overturned?...why are you taking this point?....

Please list the legislative accomplishments of Donald Trump, and the successful programs he has instituted.

Trump didn't DO anything, other than cut taxes, and a prison reform Bill. The tax cuts have to be undone because they keep causing economic crashes. Your country has to operate on fiscally sound principles and that hasn't happened since Reagan's first tax cut.

Immigration: Trump did nothing, other than stop prosecution of employers and dismantling immigration infrastructure. Illegal immigration was at a 50 year low when he took office, and Trump turned that into a declaration of a "National Emergency" at the Southern Border in 2019.

Biden took over a Southern Border in crisis and no facilities or personnel to deal with refugees or immigrants. Just "for profit prisons", overrun with abuse and covid That's the mess he left. No new immigration programs, or policy at all and a situation much worse than he started.
 
Even if it means dropping most of the "human infrastructure" which was imo bs anyway

“We are anxious to have a bipartisan agreement,” Capito told reporters on Capitol Hill.

A GOP aide who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss the private talks said the price tag would be $1 trillion over eight years, paid for by tapping funds that have been allocated as part of COVID-19 relief but not yet spent. The aide said about $700 billion remains in unspent virus aid.
You know taxes are going up if Biden has his way!
Taxes went up when Joe undid Trump's tax cut....I think that was on day one....

Are you really this ill-informed and ignorant. Trump's tax cut is LAW, and you can only undo a law passed by Congress, but passing a NEW law. You're arguing on a political discussion board about government without the vaguest clue of how your own government works????? Are you really an American and you don't KNOW this????

Joe cannot "undo" a tax cut law without passing a new tax law.
Joe has the house and the senate and an urge to undo anything and everything Trump has done....he stated he will push a spending bill that undoes Trump's tax cut...so who is un informed?....I think you may be the one that has not kept up....besides don't you want Trump's tax cut overturned?...why are you taking this point?....

Please list the legislative accomplishments of Donald Trump, and the successful programs he has instituted.

Trump didn't DO anything, other than cut taxes, and a prison reform Bill. The tax cuts have to be undone because they keep causing economic crashes. Your country has to operate on fiscally sound principles and that hasn't happened since Reagan's first tax cut.

Immigration: Trump did nothing, other than stop prosecution of employers and dismantling immigration infrastructure. Illegal immigration was at a 50 year low when he took office, and Trump turned that into a declaration of a "National Emergency" at the Southern Border in 2019.

Biden took over a Southern Border in crisis and no facilities or personnel to deal with refugees or immigrants. Just "for profit prisons", overrun with abuse and covid That's the mess he left. No new immigration programs, or policy at all and a situation much worse than he started.
McConnell's tax cuts.
 

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