If True, This is Clear Evidence of Obstruction

[Wyatt earp]

If true that people in the Trump administration, including his own lawyers, tried influence Flynn to either lie or not share information with Mueller's investigation, it is clear evidence of obstruction. I wonder who the lawyer was on the voicemail. If it was McGahn, then we know why he spent so many hours with Mueller's team.

"Thursday’s memo also notes that Flynn provided a voicemail to investigators of one of those possible attempts to sway him, which was referenced in the full redacted version of Mueller’s report. A personal attorney for Trump left the message on the phone of Flynn’s lawyer.

“t wouldn’t surprise me if you’ve gone on to make a deal with ... the government,” the voicemail states, according to Mueller’s office. “f ... there’s information that implicates the President, then we’ve got a national security issue, ... so, you know, ... we need some kind of heads up. Um, just for the sake of protecting all our interests if we can ... [R]emember what we’ve always said about the President and his feelings toward Flynn and, that still remains.”"

Michael Flynn: People Tied To Trump, Congress Tried To Sway What He Told Mueller

What difference does it make?

 

[flacaltenn]

LOL all that says is we need to know if there was anything, NOTHING in that statement implies or threatens any action if the info was given....

That is just one voicemail. If you read the article, which you obviously didn't since you responded in a minute, then you'd know that. Typical Trump supporter to argue denial on an article you didn't even read.

I DID read the article and it DID NOT STATE how many times this happened. In fact, it states twice that these "multiple times" were between the WH and CONGRESS. How many is multiple times? And where the fuck are they in the Mueller report???

I think you read that wrong. It says, "...where either he or his attorneys received communications from persons connected to the Administration or Congress that could have affected both his willingness to cooperate and the completeness of that cooperation.."

it doesn't say it was between the White has and Congress. It says that Flynn was contacted BY PEOPLE from the White or Congress.

It also says that the voicemail part was in the redacted report, referencing that there is a good possibility that more specific information is being redacted.

"Thursday’s memo also notes that Flynn provided a voicemail to investigators of one of those possible attempts to sway him, which was referenced in the full redacted version of Mueller’s report. A personal attorney for Trump left the message on the phone of Flynn’s lawyer."

Michael Flynn: People Tied To Trump, Congress Tried To Sway What He Told Mueller

The hell I read it wrong. It does not specify HOW MANY contacts there were. And it starts by saying...


“The defendant informed the government of multiple instances, both before and after his guilty plea, where either he or his attorneys received communications from persons connected to the Administration or Congress that could have affected both his willingness to cooperate and the completeness of that cooperation,” the filing reads.

Your assertion that there OTHER instances involving the Whitehouse is a GUESS... Because multiple instances INCLUDE the sum of WH contacts + Congressional contacts...

 

[Hiryuu]

LOL all that says is we need to know if there was anything, NOTHING in that statement implies or threatens any action if the info was given....

That is just one voicemail. If you read the article, which you obviously didn't since you responded in a minute, then you'd know that. Typical Trump supporter to argue denial on an article you didn't even read.

You don't have to be a President Trump supporter to figure out the media has been lying to you for 2 years, and reading another article is not going to change that.

 

[Lewdog]

LOL all that says is we need to know if there was anything, NOTHING in that statement implies or threatens any action if the info was given....

That is just one voicemail. If you read the article, which you obviously didn't since you responded in a minute, then you'd know that. Typical Trump supporter to argue denial on an article you didn't even read.

I DID read the article and it DID NOT STATE how many times this happened. In fact, it states twice that these "multiple times" were between the WH and CONGRESS. How many is multiple times? And where the fuck are they in the Mueller report???

I think you read that wrong. It says, "...where either he or his attorneys received communications from persons connected to the Administration or Congress that could have affected both his willingness to cooperate and the completeness of that cooperation.."

it doesn't say it was between the White has and Congress. It says that Flynn was contacted BY PEOPLE from the White or Congress.

It also says that the voicemail part was in the redacted report, referencing that there is a good possibility that more specific information is being redacted.

"Thursday’s memo also notes that Flynn provided a voicemail to investigators of one of those possible attempts to sway him, which was referenced in the full redacted version of Mueller’s report. A personal attorney for Trump left the message on the phone of Flynn’s lawyer."

Michael Flynn: People Tied To Trump, Congress Tried To Sway What He Told Mueller

The hell I read it wrong. It does not specify HOW MANY contacts there were. And it starts by saying...


“The defendant informed the government of multiple instances, both before and after his guilty plea, where either he or his attorneys received communications from persons connected to the Administration or Congress that could have affected both his willingness to cooperate and the completeness of that cooperation,” the filing reads.

Your assertion that there OTHER instances involving the Whitehouse is a GUESS... Because multiple instances INCLUDE the sum of WH contacts + Congressional contacts...

This is exactly what you said, "multiple times" were between the WH and CONGRESS."

The communications weren't between the White House and Congress. they were between the White House and Flynn and the Congress and Flynn. Some of these were before Flynn's guilty plea, and some were AFTER Flynn's guilty plea which were after Flynn left the joint defense with Trump. The white House KNEW THAT FLYNN COULD NO LONGER TALK to Trump or his lawyers after he left the joint defense agreement but continued to try and do so. So your argument is about a certain number when they said, "several." Is that REALLY your argument?

Flynn did NINETEEN interviews with the Mueller team. You don't do that many interviews if you have nothing worthwhile to say. Also, in the voice mail that was released, there are ellipsis within it, meaning there is still parts of it that have not been released, so we don't know how much more evidence is in it.

 

[flacaltenn]

they were between the White House and Flynn and the Congress and Flynn.

Yeah.. EXACTLY.. So how do YOU KNOW that "several" means more than one from the WH? How many you GUESSING came from the WH? Because that article or the Mueller report doesn't seem to say....

 

[Lewdog]

they were between the White House and Flynn and the Congress and Flynn.

Yeah.. EXACTLY.. So how do YOU KNOW that "several" means more than one from the WH? How many you GUESSING came from the WH? Because that article or the Mueller report doesn't seem to say....

With what I just posted you shows that even just one is enough. The voice mail released was AFTER Flynn broke from the joint defense agreement, and Trump and his administration knew that yet Trump's lawyer STILL CALLED when he knew that Flynn was not allowed to talk to him or share any information he was sharing with the Mueller team. The fact your argument is with what 'several' represents is pretty weak, compared to what we do know.

 

[Oddball]

That's wrong on all counts. Of course, you'd know better had you read the Mueller report, or even the criminal statue concerning obstruction of justice. That leaves just two possibilities: You're either lying, or you are ignorant. Either way, you're looking desperate and stupid.

Ah, and yes, voracious reader you are, that stunt has been tried before, at least twice on this thread, and hundreds of times before. So, welcome to the already quite numerous gaggle of know-nothings and liars.

The Mule's job was to discover and specify criminal acts and make referrals, not create innuendo and punt to the freaks in congress

Now get the fuck back in your lane, Eurotrash.

 

[Lewdog]

That's wrong on all counts. Of course, you'd know better had you read the Mueller report, or even the criminal statue concerning obstruction of justice. That leaves just two possibilities: You're either lying, or you are ignorant. Either way, you're looking desperate and stupid.

Ah, and yes, voracious reader you are, that stunt has been tried before, at least twice on this thread, and hundreds of times before. So, welcome to the already quite numerous gaggle of know-nothings and liars.

The Mule's job was to discover and specify criminal acts and make referrals, not create innuendo and punt to the freaks in congress

Now get the fuck back in your lane, Eurotrash.

Mueller can not indict the President. His job at that point is to simply pass along the information he found on the President to the people that can hold the President accountable, which is Congress. Congress is the only body that can punish the President for misdeeds.

 

[Oddball]

Mueller can not indict the President. His job at that point is to simply pass along the information he found on the President to the people that can hold the President accountable, which is Congress. Congress is the only body that can punish the President for misdeeds.

His job was to find and report on criminal acts...It wasn't to say "well we couldn't disprove this and that, so you go ahead and dig around".

If this treatment was given to your Mulatto Marxist hero, you moonbat freaks would still be cleaning the shit out of your pants.

 

[flacaltenn]

they were between the White House and Flynn and the Congress and Flynn.

Yeah.. EXACTLY.. So how do YOU KNOW that "several" means more than one from the WH? How many you GUESSING came from the WH? Because that article or the Mueller report doesn't seem to say....

With what I just posted you shows that even just one is enough. The voice mail released was AFTER Flynn broke from the joint defense agreement, and Trump and his administration knew that yet Trump's lawyer STILL CALLED when he knew that Flynn was not allowed to talk to him or share any information he was sharing with the Mueller team. The fact your argument is with what 'several' represents is pretty weak, compared to what we do know.

Is it illegal for his former employer to send a message of support to him? That's the main content of that ONE reported instance? What do you think the WH had to hide? They filed a million pages with Mueller and had WH counsel testify for DAYS... Certainly, that ground was covered...

Rational people would assume that... Especially since the WH did FIRE HIM???

 

[Lewdog]

Mueller can not indict the President. His job at that point is to simply pass along the information he found on the President to the people that can hold the President accountable, which is Congress. Congress is the only body that can punish the President for misdeeds.

His job was to find and report on criminal acts...It wasn't to say "well we couldn't disprove this and that, so you go ahead and dig around".

If this treatment was given to your Mulatto Marxist, you moonbat freaks would still be cleaning the shit out of your pants.

Obstruction of justice is a criminal act. If Mueller said, "This proves Trump obstructed justice," then he would have been overstepping his duties.

Should he have told the AG that he felt Trump obstructed justice? No... because why would he tell someone that, that can't do anything about it? They are both following the DOJ memo that a sitting President can not be indicted. The only people that can punish the President for misdeeds is Congress. There is no digging around. Mueller and his team did a 2 year investigation, why should what they investigated not be use like it is supposed to be?

 

[Lewdog]

they were between the White House and Flynn and the Congress and Flynn.

Yeah.. EXACTLY.. So how do YOU KNOW that "several" means more than one from the WH? How many you GUESSING came from the WH? Because that article or the Mueller report doesn't seem to say....

With what I just posted you shows that even just one is enough. The voice mail released was AFTER Flynn broke from the joint defense agreement, and Trump and his administration knew that yet Trump's lawyer STILL CALLED when he knew that Flynn was not allowed to talk to him or share any information he was sharing with the Mueller team. The fact your argument is with what 'several' represents is pretty weak, compared to what we do know.

Is it illegal for his former employer to send a message of support to him? That's the main content of that ONE reported instance? What do you think the WH had to hide? They filed a million pages with Mueller and had WH counsel testify for DAYS... Certainly, that ground was covered...

Rational people would assume that... Especially since the WH did FIRE HIM???

Trump's lawyer wasn't sending a message of support to him. He was telling him that he needed to share information he was telling the Mueller team, which is against the law, 'because it could be a threat to national security,' which is a total lie.

 

[flacaltenn]

You can't OBSTRUCT when there IS NO CRIME.

Good God, you leftards need to get a life. It's over, done.

Funny all the Republicans during Clinton's impeachment said very clearly you can.

According to even the DEMOCRAT resolution that offered censure instead of impeachment, his own PARTY listed several potential crimes including suborning perjury and suggested he should be disbarred, and prevented from running for political office ever again..

Let me refresh your memory.. House Joint Resolution 140

Whereas in his conduct of the office of the President of the United States, William Jefferson Clinton, in violation of the his constitutional oath ... and in violation of his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed,

b has prevented, obstructed, and impeded the administration of justice by providing false and misleading testimony under oath.

Whereas W.J.C. engaged personally and through his subordinates and agents in a course of conduct or plan

b to delay, impede, and obstruct the investigation into and the disclosure of information about the President's improper and reprehensible relationship with a government employee: and

Clinton has egregiously failed in this obligation , and through his actions violated the trust of the American people, lessened their esteem for the office of the President, and dishonored the office which they have entrusted to him:

(2)(a) W.J.C. lied under oath concerning his conduct with a subordinate:

(b) W.J.C. wrongly took steps to delay discovery of the truth.

(c) inasmuch as no person is above the law, W.J.C. remains subject to criminal and civil penalties; and

(3) W.J.C. .... by his conduct has brought upon himself , and fully deserves , the censure and condemnation of the American people and the Congress.

(4) by his signature on this joint resolution, W.J.Clinton acknowledges this censure and condemnation and ......

(A) Make a donation to the Treasury of $500,000.
(B) Not deliver in person any State of the Union Address.
(C) Not be involved in fund raising activities for the Democratic Party or for any candidate for public office.
(D) Not to serve in public office in any capacity after his term as President is completed.

Resolution failed to pass. Impeachment went forward. Dems threw a hissy fit and walked out of Congress...

 

[Lewdog]

You can't OBSTRUCT when there IS NO CRIME.

Good God, you leftards need to get a life. It's over, done.

Funny all the Republicans during Clinton's impeachment said very clearly you can.

According to even the DEMOCRAT resolution that offered censure instead of impeachment, his own PARTY listed several potential crimes including suborning perjury and suggested he should be disbarred, and prevented from running for political office ever again..

Let me refresh your memory.. House Joint Resolution 140

Whereas in his conduct of the office of the President of the United States, William Jefferson Clinton, in violation of the his constitutional oath ... and in violation of his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed,

b has prevented, obstructed, and impeded the administration of justice by providing false and misleading testimony under oath.

Whereas W.J.C. engaged personally and through his subordinates and agents in a course of conduct or plan

b to delay, impede, and obstruct the investigation into and the disclosure of information about the President's improper and reprehensible relationship with a government employee: and

Clinton has egregiously failed in this obligation , and through his actions violated the trust of the American people, lessened their esteem for the office of the President, and dishonored the office which they have entrusted to him:

(2)(a) W.J.C. lied under oath concerning his conduct with a subordinate:

(b) W.J.C. wrongly took steps to delay discovery of the truth.

(c) inasmuch as no person is above the law, W.J.C. remains subject to criminal and civil penalties; and

(3) W.J.C. .... by his conduct has brought upon himself , and fully deserves , the censure and condemnation of the American people and the Congress.

(4) by his signature on this joint resolution, W.J.Clinton acknowledges this censure and condemnation and ......

(A) Make a donation to the Treasury of $500,000.
(B) Not deliver in person any State of the Union Address.
(C) Not be involved in fund raising activities for the Democratic Party or for any candidate for public office.
(D) Not to serve in public office in any capacity after his term as President is completed.

Resolution failed to pass. Impeachment went forward. Dems threw a hissy fit and walked out of Congress...

I'm not trying to defend Clinton. You totally built a strawman beyond anything imaginable. I simply stated that many Republicans around at that time said you don't have to have an underlying crime for obstruction of justice, and suddenly a Republican in Trump is under fire and they change their tune. That doesn't mean Democrats haven't as well.

Key example, Lindsey Graham.

 

[Oddball]

Mueller can not indict the President. His job at that point is to simply pass along the information he found on the President to the people that can hold the President accountable, which is Congress. Congress is the only body that can punish the President for misdeeds.

His job was to find and report on criminal acts...It wasn't to say "well we couldn't disprove this and that, so you go ahead and dig around".

If this treatment was given to your Mulatto Marxist, you moonbat freaks would still be cleaning the shit out of your pants.

Obstruction of justice is a criminal act. If Mueller said, "This proves Trump obstructed justice," then he would have been overstepping his duties.

Should he have told the AG that he felt Trump obstructed justice? No... because why would he tell someone that, that can't do anything about it? They are both following the DOJ memo that a sitting President can not be indicted. The only people that can punish the President for misdeeds is Congress. There is no digging around. Mueller and his team did a 2 year investigation, why should what they investigated not be use like it is supposed to be?

If Cheeto had obstructed justice, it was the Mule's job to spell it out....That's how western jurisprudence of the last several centuries works, sub-cretin .

 

[RetiredGySgt]

That's wrong on all counts. Of course, you'd know better had you read the Mueller report, or even the criminal statue concerning obstruction of justice. That leaves just two possibilities: You're either lying, or you are ignorant. Either way, you're looking desperate and stupid.

Ah, and yes, voracious reader you are, that stunt has been tried before, at least twice on this thread, and hundreds of times before. So, welcome to the already quite numerous gaggle of know-nothings and liars.

The Mule's job was to discover and specify criminal acts and make referrals, not create innuendo and punt to the freaks in congress

Now get the fuck back in your lane, Eurotrash.

Mueller can not indict the President. His job at that point is to simply pass along the information he found on the President to the people that can hold the President accountable, which is Congress. Congress is the only body that can punish the President for misdeeds.

Except his sole job was to REPORT to the Attorney General, at NO TIME did he have authority to report to Congress, the law is clear on that and you know it. EVERYTHING Mueller did was for the Attorney General NOT Congress as per the LAW.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

You can't OBSTRUCT when there IS NO CRIME.

Good God, you leftards need to get a life. It's over, done.

Funny all the Republicans during Clinton's impeachment said very clearly you can.

According to even the DEMOCRAT resolution that offered censure instead of impeachment, his own PARTY listed several potential crimes including suborning perjury and suggested he should be disbarred, and prevented from running for political office ever again..

Let me refresh your memory.. House Joint Resolution 140

Whereas in his conduct of the office of the President of the United States, William Jefferson Clinton, in violation of the his constitutional oath ... and in violation of his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed,

b has prevented, obstructed, and impeded the administration of justice by providing false and misleading testimony under oath.

Whereas W.J.C. engaged personally and through his subordinates and agents in a course of conduct or plan

b to delay, impede, and obstruct the investigation into and the disclosure of information about the President's improper and reprehensible relationship with a government employee: and

Clinton has egregiously failed in this obligation , and through his actions violated the trust of the American people, lessened their esteem for the office of the President, and dishonored the office which they have entrusted to him:

(2)(a) W.J.C. lied under oath concerning his conduct with a subordinate:

(b) W.J.C. wrongly took steps to delay discovery of the truth.

(c) inasmuch as no person is above the law, W.J.C. remains subject to criminal and civil penalties; and

(3) W.J.C. .... by his conduct has brought upon himself , and fully deserves , the censure and condemnation of the American people and the Congress.

(4) by his signature on this joint resolution, W.J.Clinton acknowledges this censure and condemnation and ......

(A) Make a donation to the Treasury of $500,000.
(B) Not deliver in person any State of the Union Address.
(C) Not be involved in fund raising activities for the Democratic Party or for any candidate for public office.
(D) Not to serve in public office in any capacity after his term as President is completed.

Resolution failed to pass. Impeachment went forward. Dems threw a hissy fit and walked out of Congress...

I'm not trying to defend Clinton. You totally built a strawman beyond anything imaginable. I simply stated that many Republicans around at that time said you don't have to have an underlying crime for obstruction of justice, and suddenly a Republican in Trump is under fire and they change their tune. That doesn't mean Democrats haven't as well.

Key example, Lindsey Graham.

There was a crime when Clinton did it, he was in COURT on the charges and attempted to get witnesses not to testify. And he was guilty.

 

[Lewdog]

Enjoy. By the way I've ALWAYS said I think both Clintons are scam artist and I supported the impeachment of Bill Clinton. Should I offer the same bet to you "Loser leaves the forum forever' that I've offered many times before that no one has the balls to take me up on?

 

[Lewdog]

Mueller can not indict the President. His job at that point is to simply pass along the information he found on the President to the people that can hold the President accountable, which is Congress. Congress is the only body that can punish the President for misdeeds.

His job was to find and report on criminal acts...It wasn't to say "well we couldn't disprove this and that, so you go ahead and dig around".

If this treatment was given to your Mulatto Marxist, you moonbat freaks would still be cleaning the shit out of your pants.

Obstruction of justice is a criminal act. If Mueller said, "This proves Trump obstructed justice," then he would have been overstepping his duties.

Should he have told the AG that he felt Trump obstructed justice? No... because why would he tell someone that, that can't do anything about it? They are both following the DOJ memo that a sitting President can not be indicted. The only people that can punish the President for misdeeds is Congress. There is no digging around. Mueller and his team did a 2 year investigation, why should what they investigated not be use like it is supposed to be?

If Cheeto had obstructed justice, it was the Mule's job to spell it out....That's how western jurisprudence of the last several centuries works, sub-cretin .

He clearly spelled out ten times he felt there was possible obstruction of justice. Did you read the report?

 

[Lewdog]

That's wrong on all counts. Of course, you'd know better had you read the Mueller report, or even the criminal statue concerning obstruction of justice. That leaves just two possibilities: You're either lying, or you are ignorant. Either way, you're looking desperate and stupid.

Ah, and yes, voracious reader you are, that stunt has been tried before, at least twice on this thread, and hundreds of times before. So, welcome to the already quite numerous gaggle of know-nothings and liars.

The Mule's job was to discover and specify criminal acts and make referrals, not create innuendo and punt to the freaks in congress

Now get the fuck back in your lane, Eurotrash.

Mueller can not indict the President. His job at that point is to simply pass along the information he found on the President to the people that can hold the President accountable, which is Congress. Congress is the only body that can punish the President for misdeeds.

Except his sole job was to REPORT to the Attorney General, at NO TIME did he have authority to report to Congress, the law is clear on that and you know it. EVERYTHING Mueller did was for the Attorney General NOT Congress as per the LAW.

What sense does it make to report evidence to the AG that can't do anything about it? Use some common sense.