If Ukraine loses the war and Russia occupies Ukraine, the US and Europe may not have a choice, but to go to war

[Markle]

NATO does not want to see another trump administration. He is doing Poootin's bidding.

Some member nations don't want to see another Trump administration because, as you know, Trump made delinquent countries pay their agreed-upon dues.

 

[JimH52]

Some member nations don't want to see another Trump administration because, as you know, Trump made delinquent countries pay their agreed-upon dues.

They know trump is a Poootin lover. He will give eastern Europe to Poootin.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

You said mass arrests of military personel, and people on demonstrations get arrested in any Country, and some news for you they have free elections in Russia, my God you people really are too far gone . … Putin has more to think about than who is the US President, he is busy winning a war and trashing Nato …

I understand you consider yourself a Socialist of some sort and are active in the British Labour Party. I have no problem with any of that. But it seems to me criticizing U.S. imperialism is one thing. Defending Putin and his “free elections” in Russia is another.

Putin’s persecution and closure of all dissident and anti-war organizations, his arrest of popular “anti-corruption” politicians like Navalny, your implied defense of the ever more dangerous and incompetent silovicki security and gangster state in Russia which has long protected kleptomaniacal capitalist oligarchs (many of whom are now disappearing or being disappeared) — all this is wrong and unnecessary. The truth about Russia should be told, just as unpalatable truths about China and the United States and Great Britain must also be exposed.

I make no predictions about the final result of the Ukraine War. It may well be the case that the Ukrainians will not be able to reclaim much more of their pre-2020 territory, the present military stalemate will endure for some time, deaths increase, and ultimately new de facto borders established. The Russian state may actually crumble and break up as siloviki factions fight for power or regions break away. Or the state may re-stabilize itself as a new “war economy” and re-distribution of foreign assets seized from withdrawing Western investors helps Putin or another dictator consolidate power.

But some of your statements and many others’ claims that “Russia is winning” or “will ultimately win” sounds like mere propaganda or cheerleading to me. It is not obvious at all. It sounds to me most likely a pipe dream.

Of course it is also possible that the people and governments on all sides of this brutal war will ultimately exhaust themselves, and Ukrainians and Russians will eventually realize they have “lost” far more than they have “won.”

 

[marvin martian]

NATO does not want to see another trump administration. He is doing Poootin's bidding.

Yet Putin invaded Ukraine only after Biden was in office. Why?

 

[JimH52]

I understand you consider yourself a Socialist of some sort and are active in the British Labour Party. I have no problem with any of that. But it seems to me criticizing U.S. imperialism is one thing. Defending Putin and his “free elections” in Russia is another.

Putin’s persecution and closure of all dissident organizations, his arrest of popular “anti-corruption” politicians like Navalny, his whole ever more dangerous and incompetent silovicki security and gangster state long protecting kleptonaniacal capitalist oligarchs (though many of these are now also increasingly disappearing or being disappeared) — all this is wrong and unnecessary. The truth about Russia should be told, just as unpalatable truths about China and the United States and Great Britain must also be exposed.

I make no predictions about the final result of the Ukraine War. It may well be the case that the Ukrainians will not be able to reclaim much more of their pre-2020 territory, the present military stalemate will endure for some time, deaths increase, and ultimately new de facto borders stabilized. The Russian state may actually crumble and break up as siloviki factions fight for power or regions break away. Or the state may re-stabilize itself as a war economy and a new distribution of foreign assets seized from withdrawing Western investors helps helps Putin or another dictator consolidate power.

But some of your statements and many others’ claims that “Russia is winning” or “will ultimately win” sounds like mere propaganda or cheerleading to me. It is not obvious at all. It sounds to me most likely a pipe dream.

Of course it is also possible that the people and governments on all sides of this brutal war will ultimately exhaust themselves, and most will eventually realize they have “lost” far more than they have “won.”

It is a needed war that a little man named Poootin launched because he will envisions reassembling the old Soviet Union. Unfortunately for him, the Ukrainians did not roll over and let him plant his Russian flag. He has turned Russia into a Pariah state that NO ONE trusts anymore. It will take generations for Russia to regain it's place on the world's stage.

 

[Deadstick]

I understand you consider yourself a Socialist of some sort and are active in the British Labour Party. I have no problem with any of that. But it seems to me criticizing U.S. imperialism is one thing. Defending Putin and his “free elections” in Russia is another.

Putin’s persecution and closure of all dissident organizations, his arrest of popular “anti-corruption” politicians like Navalny, his whole ever more dangerous and incompetent silovicki security and gangster state long protecting kleptonaniacal capitalist oligarchs (though many of these are now also increasingly disappearing or being disappeared) — all this is wrong and unnecessary. The truth about Russia should be told, just as unpalatable truths about China and the United States and Great Britain must also be exposed.

I make no predictions about the final result of the Ukraine War. It may well be the case that the Ukrainians will not be able to reclaim much more of their pre-2020 territory, the present military stalemate will endure for some time, deaths increase, and ultimately new de facto borders stabilized. The Russian state may actually crumble and break up as siloviki factions fight for power or regions break away. Or the state may re-stabilize itself as a war economy and a new distribution of foreign assets seized from withdrawing Western investors helps helps Putin or another dictator consolidate power.

But some of your statements and many others’ claims that “Russia is winning” or “will ultimately win” sounds like mere propaganda or cheerleading to me. It is not obvious at all. It sounds to me most likely a pipe dream.

Of course it is also possible that the people and governments on all sides of this brutal war will ultimately exhaust themselves, and most will eventually realize they have “lost” far more than they have “won.”

I am not a member of any political party, as for Navalny he is a Western intelligence asset, he is another juan Guaido or any other random clown your Country designates as the leader, Navalny is a criminal and has very little support in Russia, the Communist party are the largest opposition party in Russia.

 

[JohnDB]

Yet Putin invaded Ukraine only after Biden was in office. Why?

Because Obama (Biden was VP) allowed Russia to invade Ukraine in 2014 and did nothing to uphold our treaty with Ukraine.
But neither did Trump.
Trump is only commenting because he refuses to be silent on anything and everything. He isn't very gentlemanly or statesman-like in behavior....and never has been. I do understand why people like him...and he kept his campaign promises in spite of heavy opposition to do so. But many had issues with the way he did them. Which is why I think most of his opposition comes from the way he did things and not so much what his goals were. Democrats just hate him period. He was brash and a bully and didn't care if he was perceived that way.

 

[JimH52]

Because Obama (Biden was VP) allowed Russia to invade Ukraine in 2014 and did nothing to uphold our treaty with Ukraine.
But neither did Trump.
Trump is only commenting because he refuses to be silent on anything and everything. He isn't very gentlemanly or statesman-like in behavior....and never has been. I do understand why people like him...and he kept his campaign promises in spite of heavy opposition to do so. But many had issues with the way he did them. Which is why I think most of his opposition comes from the way he did things and not so much what his goals were. Democrats just hate him period. He was brash and a bully and didn't care if he was perceived that way.

Yeah, his mouth has cost him millions and multiple indictments.

 

[hadit]

They know trump is a Poootin lover. He will give eastern Europe to Poootin.

He didn't do it when he had the chance. In case you didn't notice, Quid Pro is now in charge and getting us dragged into yet another conflict on the other side of the world, shades of Viet Nam.

 

[Deadstick]

He didn't do it when he had the chance. In case you didn't notice, Quid Pro is now in charge and getting us dragged into yet another conflict on the other side of the world, shades of Viet Nam.

Some idiots never learn do they?

 

[Silver Cat]

Wasn't Lithuania in control of Ukraine from the 14th century to the 17th? How can Ukraine be part of Russia for over 1200 years when Russia was completely irrelevant till the end 18th century, which is when they won full control of Ukraine? The Cossacks also named their country Ukraine in the mid 17th century. Everything you're saying is just a made up fairytale.

If we are talking about Russia as a cultural and lingustical space, rather than just the political term like Russian Federation,(USSR, Russian Empire, Grand Duchy of Moscow, Kievan Rus, Rus' Khaganate, etc), than, the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, Jemaya and Russia, as a multicultural state, was a part of Russia, too, and a competitor of the Great Duchy of Moscow in "the gathering of Russian lands". You may call it "Western Russia" with capital in Vilno. And no, the Russian lands, controlled by Lithuania weren't called Ukraine. This term was invented only during Polish occupation.

 

[Silver Cat]

Because Obama (Biden was VP) allowed Russia to invade Ukraine in 2014 and did nothing to uphold our treaty with Ukraine.
But neither did Trump.
Trump is only commenting because he refuses to be silent on anything and everything. He isn't very gentlemanly or statesman-like in behavior....and never has been. I do understand why people like him...and he kept his campaign promises in spite of heavy opposition to do so. But many had issues with the way he did them. Which is why I think most of his opposition comes from the way he did things and not so much what his goals were. Democrats just hate him period. He was brash and a bully and didn't care if he was perceived that way.

Obama disbalanced Ukraine and started this sad conflict. Trump stabilized the situation. Biden destroyed this fragile equilibrium, and is going to destabilise the situation even more and to widen this conflict to, say, a regional war.

 

[JohnDB]

Obama disbalanced Ukraine and started this sad conflict. Trump stabilized the situation. Biden destroyed this fragile equilibrium, and is going to destabilise the situation even more and to widen this conflict to, say, a regional war.

You don't pay a blackmailer or an extortioner.
It only will become too expensive before long.

If Obama and the EU had reacted in 2014 it would have required a fraction of the lives, training and equipment that it does now.

 

[marvin martian]

It is a needed war that a little man named Poootin launched because he will envisions reassembling the old Soviet Union. Unfortunately for him, the Ukrainians did not roll over and let him plant his Russian flag. He has turned Russia into a Pariah state that NO ONE trusts anymore. It will take generations for Russia to regain it's place on the world's stage.

Why did Putin wait until Biden was president to invade Ukraine?

Because he knew Joe would let him.

 

[Silver Cat]

You don't pay a blackmailer or an extortioner.
It only will become too expensive before long.

If Obama and the EU had reacted in 2014 it would have required a fraction of the lives, training and equipment that it does now.

It's not about paying a blackmailer. It's about possibility of the peaceful coexistence. If you try to build a single-nation society in a multi-national state (is it Ukraine for [ethnic] Ukrainians, Serbia for [ethnic] Serbs, or America for [white anglo-saxon protestant] Americans) it can easily cause a civil war. If you try to violate a vital interests of your neighbor (or other strong state) - it can cause countermeasures, including direct military invasion (as it was in Iraq and Afghanistan).

 

[Silver Cat]

Why did Putin wait until Biden was president to invade Ukraine?

Because he knew Joe would let him.

Because he knew Joe wouldn't let him not to invade.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Rigby's argument is the same fallacy people use against Palestinians:

There was never a distinct Palestinian people with a separate state before the Zionist movement got going.

They are factually correct regarding the arabs of Palestine but this historic fact is absolutely irrelevant to the resolution of the present conflict in Palestine and also in Ukraine.

What really matters to the resolution of the conflicts in Ukraine and Palestine is the fact that today, 07/24/2023, there is a group of arabic-speaking people who consider the entire region of Palestine as their homeland and another group in Ukraine who don't think about themselves as Russians.

I often reply in jest to those people:

If Palestinians and Ukrainians don't exist, solving both conflicts is a piece of cake. All you have to do is travel to Palestine and Ukraine, convince Palestinians and Ukrainians they don't exist and voilá.... Problem solved!!

Palestinians will disperse themselves into arab world and will consider themselves Jordanians, Lebanese, Egyptians disappearing as a separate people and Ukrainians will start begging to join the russian federation.

Even Putin implicitly recognizes the existence of the Ukrainian people.

When he says Russia doesn't have any intention to annex Kiev, Lviv and Ivano-Frankvisk, that's his convoluted, roundabout way to concede the fact that the ukrainian people is real and won't accept russian rule.

Putin thought everyone agreed to a neutral Ukraine. Unfortunately, based upon faulty Intel provided by the CIA, the Globalists were lead to believe Russia was weak and would crumble in the face of a United NATO. Accordingly, they ordered Ukraine to ignore the Minsk Accords and installed a puppet government run by a comedian. They continued to let Ukrainian Nazis kill Russian people in Donbass and make noises about wanting to join NATO. Biden gave Putin a go ahead for a limited invasion. Again based on faulty CIA assessments, Russia was a tiny armed force, sure be be defeated in a Ukrainian proxy war. BlackRock has agreements with Zelen$ky to buy up most of Ukraine after the inevitable Russian defeat.

Oopsies

 

[krichton]

Exactly what threat is there to the United States if Russia reoccupies Ukraine.

We have this corrupt little nation we are sending billions of dollars of aid to and how well are we tracking the money? I’ll bet half the money we send is going in the front door and out the back. It wouldn’t surprise me if bagmen for the Biden Crime Family were in the alley behind that back door.

Now if Russia decides to attack a NATO nation we have treaty obligations to consider.

Corruption in Ukraine Military’s Supply Systems: Reform Underway

Ukraine’s Defense Minister outlined his priorities for reducing the risk of corruption in the processes used to buy the materiel Ukraine’s troops need.

www.kyivpost.com

https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/20/politics/pentagon-watchdog-report-ukraine-weaponry/index.html

Trump impeached for being right about Biden family’s Ukraine corruption

At the House Democrats’ 2019 impeachment inquiry, Rep. Adam Schiff blocked Republicans from calling witnesses and obtaining documents that could have told today’s unfolding, seedy story of the Biden family in Ukraine.

www.washingtontimes.com

According to the cnn article, criminals, volunteer fighters and arms traffickers got their hands on the weapons. This happens in the United States as well. When it does, do you accuse the United States government of being corrupt or stealing the weapons, you fucking idiot! Oh wait, you probably do, nevermind.

 

[AlexanderPK]

The US have found oil in Antarctica.
It may not have a choice but to put an end at last to the bloody regime of penguins tormenting its people!

 

[ThirdTerm]

Every "Z" painted on military equipment or as a patch on Russian uniforms is support for Igor Ghirkin and his Angry Patriots.....

Z was painted on Russian tanks to avoid friendly fire casualties ahead of the invasion. It has no political significance. Ukrainians also use Russian T-62 tanks and other Soviet-era Russian tanks donated by Eastern European allies.