If Ukraine loses the war and Russia occupies Ukraine, the US and Europe may not have a choice, but to go to war

[Kruska]

Hence? You need to revise your theory. At first, there was Crimean annexation, and then the war in Donbas happened.

The Maidan events of 2013–2014 served as a catalyst for an explosion of the deep societal rifts that had been growing over years. They resulted in fierce confrontation in Donbas, the country’s industrial region located on the border with Russia. It was caused by the reaction to Euromaidan, which, according to a poll of December 2013, 81 per cent of population in Donbas did not support, and the violent counter-reaction by the government in Kyiv to the nascent revolt.

Donbas separatists had already installed an own council in end of November 2013. And Uki Nazi units had already engaged Donbas "opposition" in November-December 2013, referred to as (ATO).

Meanwhile, Russian-backed Viktor Yanukovych was facing mounting pressure as the President of Ukraine for failing to sign the Ukraine-EU agreement in November 2013. The autonomous Crimean parliament supported Yanukovych while the rest of the country opposed him. At least 50 protesters were shot dead by the police in Kyiv. Ukraine was on the verge of a civil war.

On 22 February 2014, Yanukovych fled for the safety of Putin’s Russia. On the pretext of rescuing his ally, Putin ordered Russian Special Forces into Crimea on 27th February .

Putin occupied Crimea on 27th February 2014. And Uki Nazi units had already engaged Donbas "opposition" in November-December 2013, referred to as (ATO), The intensive fighting then broke out in end of March, beginning of April 2014. And only then the MSM started to come in and started propagating that the Donbas war got started in April 2014.

Also your deflection from Ukraine desperately trying to join NATO since 1994 - doesn't add any credit to your claim in regards to that being supposedly Russian propaganda.

 

[krichton]

Why don't you check it out, before you bring in misleading statements?
Your statement: Basically, Ukraine was never poised to become a NATO member in reality, despite Russian propaganda.

1994​

Ukraine joins a collaborative partnership with NATO.

2008​

Ukraine and Georgia begin to pursue membership in the NATO alliance. Later that summer Ukraine begins talks to form ties with the European Union.

2019-20​

In 2019 Ukraine passes a constitutional amendment to pursue NATO and EU membership.

2021​

Ukraine becomes a NATO Enhanced Opportunities Partner, cooperating on missions and exercises.

And a "neutral" Ukraine is absolutely no threat for Russia.

Was Georgia pursuing NATO membership? Was Chechnya? Were either a threat to Russia? Putin went to war on his first day as president.

 

[skye]

If Europe wants or feels it must to go to war.....

Let Europe go to war (along with NATO the collective West and the Biden Administration too)

It will not end well for them, that's all.

 

[Kruska]

Was Georgia pursuing NATO membership? Was Chechnya? Were either a threat to Russia? Putin went to war on his first day as president.

Why don't you check for your self? Chechnya wasn't about NATO - check it out yourself

The Russian-Chechnya war began in December 11, 1994 - you moron
In 1999, Yeltsin’s government ordered a second invasion of Chechnya after Russian authorities asserted that bombings in Moscow and other cities were linked to Chechen militants.

Putin became president in 2000 - and increased Russian military actions in Chechnya after terrorist bombings in Russian cities continued.

And this thread is about Ukraine.

 

[zaangalewa]

We attacked 2 sovereign nations with our failed efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan.

You never attacked Afghanistan - you defended Afghanistan. Afghanistan lost - that's not nice but perhaps the only way to end the enmeshment of the western world in problems which are not solvable from our cultures and are also no real problems of the western world. On the other side would be more constance in the foreign politics of the USA and more ... oh this word not exists in the English language ... or is it "consideration" ??? ... whatever: Your behavior in context with your allies is sometimes more than only a little strange.

And your war against the Iraq was a clear political disaster and a very heavy mistake basing on an avalanche of lies of your government under George W. Bush. In general is the doctrine "preemptive strike" always wrong - as uncomfortable this might be in a dangerous situation. But a nuclear power without self-control - see Russia now in the moment, see also the fake-conflict China vs Taiwan - is more than only a disaster.

 

[zaangalewa]

If Europe wants or feels it must to go to war.....

Let Europe go to war (along with NATO the collective West and the Biden Administration too)

It will not end well for them, that's all.

What a nonsense. I remember a scenario from the cold war where in the first day of a third world war will die about 700 million people - and in this number is not calculated that the Commies had been able to react. You are perhaps dead before you are able to sip of your coffee after you hear an alarm. And with you will die everyone else in your whole nation.

 

[zaangalewa]

Oh I forgot the good side: The following nuclear winter on our palnet will solve our climate change problem.

 

[The Duke]

Zelensky: Ukrainian loss could force US to choose between ‘collapse of NATO’ or war

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said Thursday that a loss to Russia could ultimately force the U.S. to choose between the “collapse of NATO” or going to war. “If Ukraine would lose, if Russi…

thehill.com

I know it is scary, but that may be the only choice left. Putin is not going to stop at Ukraine, if he occupies the country.

Wow, where did OP get this AP warmongering propaganda?

 

[The Duke]

Oh I forgot the good side: The following nuclear winter on our palnet will solve our climate change problem.

That's an American dance, retard. Another thing I notice is that is Lousiana music.



The "Charleston" is based on Loosiana music.

 

[zaangalewa]

Trump wanted to destroy NATO for his daddy Poootin.

That's exactly what I think too. The superliar Donald Trump is a high traitor.

 

[zaangalewa]

That's an American dance, retard. Another thing I notice is that is Lousiana music.



The "Charleston" is based on Loosiana music.

I know this.



To ashes, to dust
robbed of the light
but not yet
Miracles wait until last

ocean of time
eternal law
to ashes, to dust
to ashes
but not yet

to ashes, to dust
robbed of light
but not yet
Miracles wait till last

It is but a dream
the mere whimpering after the wind
Who knows for sure?

The clock on your wall
it is filled with sand
put your hand in mine
and let us be eternal

You make your choice now
and throw us between happiness and pain
But I can forgive you

You are so close to death
and yet your gaze so clear
recognize me
I am ready
and seek immortality

 

[The Duke]

I know this.



To ashes, to dust
robbed of the light
but not yet
Miracles wait until last

ocean of time
eternal law
to ashes, to dust
to ashes
but not yet

to ashes, to dust
robbed of light
but not yet
Miracles wait till last

It is but a dream
the mere whimpering after the wind
Who knows for sure?

The clock on your wall
it is filled with sand
put your hand in mine
and let us be eternal

You make your choice now
and throw us between happiness and pain
But I can forgive you

You are so close to death
and yet your gaze so clear
recognize me
I am ready
and seek immortality

But do you know this?

 

[zaangalewa]

Of course NATO has a budget, and it's called the "NATO budget". For 2023 it will be about $400 million for the civilian component and $2 Billion for the military.

All NATO member states pay a share based on a formula- the US pays about 22%.

This is different than member states' defense budgets, which are what US Presidents have been criticizing NATO members over since the end of the Cold War- e.g. The 2% of GDP target. That isn't NATO spending- it's country-by-country defense spending. The US spends more than 2%, yes- but we have other commitments that are not NATO orientated- Pacific rim, etc. ...

Very good. I gave it up to say anything to this theme, because I got the impression most US-Americans are not able to think any longer when they discuss such problems. So let me say: Additionally you cover many investements and costs in your defense budget which are in other countries no military costs at all. And Germany pays in the moment for more than a million refugees from the Ukraine a lot of money - otherwise could break down the Ukrainian civil society. And even if someone has more money for defense - more money does not autómatically mean the quality and quantity of the defense system grows. We have for example a lack of well trained soldiers in Germany - and one reason for this situation had been a wrong defense politics of the NATO - so we did away with compulsory military service - what as a side effect also weakened our social systems by minimizing persons doing community services. And this step is irreversible.

All this real problems and fake problems are not able to be solved (or to be ignored) because a mainstream of ideological motivated US-American politicians speaks bullshit and nonsense.

 

[zaangalewa]

But do you know this?

no comment ... or better: What about this: Leave Germany and Europe with all of your soldiers if you like to be a problem now. Better no ally than a mighty superidiot who thinks all others are slaves.

 

[The Duke]

no comment ... or better: What about this: Leave Germany and Europe with all of your soldiers if you like to be a problem now. Better no ally than a mighty superidiot who thinks all others are slaves.

You do remember Germans were the Nazis, right?

But if Putin tries to re-take East Berlin, he's gonna have problems.

 

[zaangalewa]

You do remember Germans were the Nazis, right?

And many US-Americans are Nazis. Ask Disney. So what do you like to ask, superidiot? Do you need us to solve your Nazi-problem?

But if Putin tries to re-take East Berlin, he's gonna have problems.

You are totally mad. You gave not only East-Berlin to Stalin. You sold a very big part of East-Europe to Stalin. That's why the current problems exist.

 

[zaangalewa]

The Duke

You like to be the problem which likes to be a part of its own solution? Tell me what you think what a solution could be.

 

[luiza]

The Duke

You like to be the problem which likes to be a part of its own solution? Tell me what you think what a solution could be.

First sentence is Gobbledygook

 

[Vastator]

Zelensky: Ukrainian loss could force US to choose between ‘collapse of NATO’ or war

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said Thursday that a loss to Russia could ultimately force the U.S. to choose between the “collapse of NATO” or going to war. “If Ukraine would lose, if Russi…

thehill.com

I know it is scary, but that may be the only choice left. Putin is not going to stop at Ukraine, if he occupies the country.

There is always a choice...

 

[zaangalewa]

There is always a choice...

Or there's always no choice (for example because everyone has to die) ... For sure is what Putin is doing without any sanity and reason. So he is a kind of psychopath. Unfortunatelly a psychopath never stops on his own - a psychopath has to be stopped. Otherwise he will repeat in an escalating way his criminal deeds.

And I personally was a little angry about me that I did not notice nor realize that Putin had started in 2008 with his wrong, criminal and perverted actions when he had attacked Georgia. On the other side is international politics not my business and I ask myselve what for politicians are really good. In those days the Iraq war still bound attention and Islamism and war on terror dominated all views - while Putin started his form of terror and no one reacted.