if you were in that concert hall..would you want a gun...a poll

[Yarddog]

These guys on this thread would be singing a different tune if they were one of the hostages with a gun to their head. They would be praying that someone else had a gun. They don't realize that a person who has a concealed carry license is not going to pull out a gun and start shooting willy nilly, thats a damn fantasy. Im not sure how many cases of mass shootings by people who had CC permits there are but it has to be damn few. Only one I can think of is Hassan Nadal in Texas

It seems a lack of empathy to me when posters here say they would not have been willing to carry a gun, to try reverse what had happened in Paris,
and save lives of the helpless, theoretical as it may be.

How do you know?

If you had a gun pointed to your head, and you had just seen people executed before you, You would not want your executioner to be stopped?
Is that what your saying?

Or at that moment would you be saying to yourself ? " Oh my, what if one of these hostages pulls out a weapon and hurts innocent bystanders" Ohh I just couldn't LIVE with myself!"




You know Im right, but you won't abandon your political point because of gun control issues. The OP was very specific though regarding a major terrorist incident

I'm not so sure an extra 25-50 drunk assholes with guns would have been helpful. I have no idea one way or another, neither do you.

These guys on this thread would be singing a different tune if they were one of the hostages with a gun to their head. They would be praying that someone else had a gun. They don't realize that a person who has a concealed carry license is not going to pull out a gun and start shooting willy nilly, thats a damn fantasy. Im not sure how many cases of mass shootings by people who had CC permits there are but it has to be damn few. Only one I can think of is Hassan Nadal in Texas

It seems a lack of empathy to me when posters here say they would not have been willing to carry a gun, to try reverse what had happened in Paris,
and save lives of the helpless, theoretical as it may be.

How do you know?

If you had a gun pointed to your head, and you had just seen people executed before you, You would not want your executioner to be stopped?
Is that what your saying?

Or at that moment would you be saying to yourself ? " Oh my, what if one of these hostages pulls out a weapon and hurts innocent bystanders" Ohh I just couldn't LIVE with myself!"

You know Im right, but you won't abandon your political point because of gun control issues. The OP was very specific though regarding a major terrorist incident

I'm not so sure an extra 25-50 drunk assholes with guns would have been helpful. I have no idea one way or another, neither do you.

This thread was only created to politicize a terrorist attack because someone has a gun fetish.

!60 or so people were slaughtered and many of them were lined up and executed one by one. seems to me the OP is a valid part of the discussion.
I am of the belief that in general, most people are good rather than bad. If people with training have a CC permit and had been present in such an incident it would have been better not worse. Of course you are not going to agree. The people in Europe who passed laws on everyone else saying they need not have a right to defend themselves with a fire arm, have the luxury of armed body guards themselves. They don't have to wait for the police to arrive. This is just hypocrisy, people should have a choice to defend themselves, Its the most basic human right

 

[westwall]

These guys on this thread would be singing a different tune if they were one of the hostages with a gun to their head. They would be praying that someone else had a gun. They don't realize that a person who has a concealed carry license is not going to pull out a gun and start shooting willy nilly, thats a damn fantasy. Im not sure how many cases of mass shootings by people who had CC permits there are but it has to be damn few. Only one I can think of is Hassan Nadal in Texas

It seems a lack of empathy to me when posters here say they would not have been willing to carry a gun, to try reverse what had happened in Paris,
and save lives of the helpless, theoretical as it may be.

How do you know?

If you had a gun pointed to your head, and you had just seen people executed before you, You would not want your executioner to be stopped?
Is that what your saying?

Or at that moment would you be saying to yourself ? " Oh my, what if one of these hostages pulls out a weapon and hurts innocent bystanders" Ohh I just couldn't LIVE with myself!"

You know Im right, but you won't abandon your political point because of gun control issues. The OP was very specific though regarding a major terrorist incident

I'm not so sure an extra 25-50 drunk assholes with guns would have been helpful. I have no idea one way or another, neither do you.

This thread was only created to politicize a terrorist attack because someone has a gun fetish.

People who carry concealed DON'T imbibe. I would have thought you could think that far. Clearly you're incapable.

 

[Neser Boha]

In the various places of the attacks in France...if you were there...and had the option...would you want to have had a concealed pistol...or would you have preferred to be unarmed....?

I would prefer to live in a world where shit like this didn't go down and there wouldn't exist a reason to carry a lethal weapon on my person. Ever. I've lived in a civilised society my entire life, so I'm hoping it stays that way ... Lethal force is the force of the weak.

 

[westwall]

Here is the updated definition...why do I say updated....because mass shooting incidents kill so few people each year, President obama had the FBI lower the number of victims from 4, the original number to make a mass public shooting a mass public shooting, to 3...which increasese the number of shootings that can now be counted...

Also....this study was found to be flawed..they started counting things that aren't in the definition of mass public shooting..

https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/20...r-incidents-in-the-u.s.-between-2000-and-2013

The agreed-upon definition of an active shooter by U.S. government agencies—including the White House, U.S. Department of Justice/FBI, U.S. Department of Education, and U.S. Department of Homeland Security/Federal Emergency Management Agency—is “an individual actively engaged in killing or attempting to kill people in a confined and populated area.”3 Implicit in this definition is that the subject’s criminal actions involve the use of firearms.4

*****************

Incidents identified in this study do not encompass all gun-related situations; therefore caution should be taken when using this information without placing it in context. Specifically, shootings that resulted from gang or drug violence—pervasive, long-tracked, criminal acts that could also affect the public— were not included in this study. In addition, other gun-related shootings were not included when those incidents appeared generally not to have put others in peril (e.g., the accidental discharge of a firearm in a school building or a person who chose to publicly commit suicide in a parking lot). The study does not encompass all mass killings or shootings in public places and therefore is limited in its scope.6 Nonetheless, it was undertaken to provide clarity and data of value to both law enforcement and citizens as they seek to stop

Do you guys conflate "acitive shooter incidient" with "mass shooting" on purpose?

Nope...we have given you the definition...you don't get that mass public shootings are defined by the government....we gave you those definitionns...learn them...

Point to it, specifically.

Here you go....active shooters are mass public shootings...what we are talking about.....that is why they are not family murders and classified differently...

https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/20...r-incidents-in-the-u.s.-between-2000-and-2013

Active shooter is a term used by law enforcement to describe a situation in which a shooting is in progress and an aspect of the crime may affect the protocols used in responding to and reacting at the scene of the incident. Unlike a defined crime, such as a murder or mass killing, the active aspect inherently implies that both law enforcement personnel and citizens have the potential to affect the outcome of the event based upon their responses. 1

Your quote doesn't say what you think it does. All an active shooter incident is, is a situation where the criminal has not been apprehended. Says nothing about claiming that mass shootings of family members are something other than mass shootings.

Actually it does. The fact that you wish to twist the definition to support your silly claims is immaterial to the discussion. THESE are the official government and law enforcement definitions so your opinion is meaningless.

 

[westwall]

In the various places of the attacks in France...if you were there...and had the option...would you want to have had a concealed pistol...or would you have preferred to be unarmed....?

I would prefer to live in a world where shit like this didn't go down and there wouldn't exist a reason to carry a lethal weapon on my person. Ever. I've lived in a civilised society my entire life, so I'm hoping it stays that way ... Lethal force is the force of the weak.

Wrong. I live by two axioms. The first is "violence is the last refuge of the incompetent". The second is "peace, through superior firepower". I am the last one who will resort to violence. But if you bring violence to the equation I will end you.

It's as simple as that. Your way leads to your death, and the deaths of those you love. Mine doesn't. More people need to be prepared to deal with assholes like this. There were few shooters in the theatre. When they were shooting people one by one why didn't the rest of them rush the assholes involved? You're going to die anyway so you might as well try and die with your teeth at the fuckers throat. Don't you think?

 

[Neser Boha]

Wrong. I live by two axioms. The first is "violence is the last refuge of the incompetent". The second is "peace, through superior firepower". I am the last one who will resort to violence. But if you bring violence to the equation I will end you.

It's as simple as that. Your way leads to your death, and the deaths of those you love. Mine doesn't. More people need to be prepared to deal with assholes like this. There were few shooters in the theatre. When they were shooting people one by one why didn't the rest of them rush the assholes involved? You're going to die anyway so you might as well try and die with your teeth at the fuckers throat. Don't you think?

I seriously couldn't give a bigger pile of shit about what you believe or don't believe.

If you want a discussion, don't start your reaction to what I wrote with 'wrong.' WTF.

And now you're criticising what the folks in the theatre did? Cuz, you would have OBVIOUSLY done something better?! Have you ever been anywhere near a situation like that? The shit didn't take hours, it took fucking seconds/minutes! What the f is wrong with you? Go jack off, you have a jizz build up on your brain ...

Ugh.

 

[Yarddog]

In the various places of the attacks in France...if you were there...and had the option...would you want to have had a concealed pistol...or would you have preferred to be unarmed....?

I would prefer to live in a world where shit like this didn't go down and there wouldn't exist a reason to carry a lethal weapon on my person. Ever. I've lived in a civilised society my entire life, so I'm hoping it stays that way ... Lethal force is the force of the weak.

Wrong. I live by two axioms. The first is "violence is the last refuge of the incompetent". The second is "peace, through superior firepower". I am the last one who will resort to violence. But if you bring violence to the equation I will end you.

It's as simple as that. Your way leads to your death, and the deaths of those you love. Mine doesn't. More people need to be prepared to deal with assholes like this. There were few shooters in the theatre. When they were shooting people one by one why didn't the rest of them rush the assholes involved? You're going to die anyway so you might as well try and die with your teeth at the fuckers throat. Don't you think?

Exactly ! Lethal force does not = wanton violence. Depravity = wanton violence.

A large Powerful man can posses Lethal Force within his body. It does not equate to violence. Violence comes from the mind. For peaceful people to possess this kind of power only brings stability. These people will NEVER get this. amazing.

I can't believe there are six people who voted no. They can't even trust themselves with a gun to save their OWN LIFE. truly amazing. they are either flat out Lying or completely insane

 

[Neser Boha]

The stupid idiotic point this thread is trying to make is just so ... fucking fucked up. I marvel at how y'all can't see THAT.

 

[EverCurious]

I'm a non-violent person, but I'm sorry, they started lining folks up and murdering them down one by one. I would not sit patiently by and wait my turn, even if such actions would hasten my death. I would /much/ rather have people with guns on hand. I've been counting my lucky stars that I live in a state that supports gun ownership, in a state where such a thing would not have gone down like that because some 70% of us in the city are packing and there is no fucking way every single one of them would sit idly by and allow the firing line deaths of so many innocent people to occur. My state is military, I'm not worried that they don't know where to aim.

Perhaps it's time for us to mandate gun training for /every/ American citizen, let us all have the knowledge and tools to protect ourselves.

 

[Billy_Bob]

A better question, would I want hundreds of others to have guns shooting each other in the dark? Probably not.

You will make a nice victim...

People who have been trained in firearms use and defense tactics would be very precise in their response. If you have a huge number of trained people most thugs and terrorists wont attempt such stupidity knowing the certainty they would not fully succeed in their plan before being killed.

I for one would be there to take them out as I CHOOSE TO NOT BE A VICTIM of liberal stupidity..

 

[Billy_Bob]

Wrong. I live by two axioms. The first is "violence is the last refuge of the incompetent". The second is "peace, through superior firepower". I am the last one who will resort to violence. But if you bring violence to the equation I will end you.

It's as simple as that. Your way leads to your death, and the deaths of those you love. Mine doesn't. More people need to be prepared to deal with assholes like this. There were few shooters in the theatre. When they were shooting people one by one why didn't the rest of them rush the assholes involved? You're going to die anyway so you might as well try and die with your teeth at the fuckers throat. Don't you think?

I seriously couldn't give a bigger pile of shit about what you believe or don't believe.

If you want a discussion, don't start your reaction to what I wrote with 'wrong.' WTF.

And now you're criticising what the folks in the theatre did? Cuz, you would have OBVIOUSLY done something better?! Have you ever been anywhere near a situation like that? The shit didn't take hours, it took fucking seconds/minutes! What the f is wrong with you? Go jack off, you have a jizz build up on your brain ...

Ugh.

So your choice is to be lined up and shot? Rather than take out the bastards who are threatening your life?

Looks like you've made the choice to be a VICTIM!

 

[Neser Boha]

I'm a non-violent person, but I'm sorry, they started lining folks up and murdering them down one by one. I would not sit patiently by and wait my turn, even if such actions would hasten my death. I would /much/ rather have people with guns on hand. I've been counting my lucky stars that I live in a state that supports gun ownership, in a state where such a thing would not have gone down like that because some 70% of us in the city are packing and there is no fucking way every single one of them would sit idly by and allow the firing line deaths of so many innocent people to occur. My state is military, I'm not worried that they don't know where to aim.

Perhaps it's time for us to mandate gun training for /every/ American citizen, let us all have the knowledge and tools to protect ourselves.

You, dearie, have no fucking clue what you would have done were you in that horrible situation. You have no inkling. You can sit here and spew idiotic opinions about woulda coulda shoulda, but (hopefully) you will never really know how you would have reacted in that situation.

Yes, having a gun in that situation would have helped you - possibly - if you had the good luck of being in some sort of advantageous position - but even that's not certain. Or it might have hastened your death because by brandishing a gun you might have been the number one corpse ... These terrorists were according to the reports 'battle hardened.' How fucking battle hardened are you?

 

[Jeddahite]

A better question, would I want hundreds of others to have guns shooting each other in the dark? Probably not.

A concert hall, a movie theater, a stadium full of gun-totin' "good guys". Of course not! How do you tell the terrorists from the uber-patriotic wacko nut jobs? Or are they the same....hmmm.

 

[Billy_Bob]

The stupid idiotic point this thread is trying to make is just so ... fucking fucked up. I marvel at how y'all can't see THAT.

The point goes to our US constitutional right to keep and bear arms.. There are many reasons why we need too. Your failure to understand them is on you.

 

[Billy_Bob]

A better question, would I want hundreds of others to have guns shooting each other in the dark? Probably not.

A concert hall, a movie theater, a stadium full of gun-totin' "good guys". Of course not! How do you tell the terrorists from the uber-patriotic wacko nut jobs? Or are they the same....hmmm.

Another fool who hasn't a clue about real people and firearms. Not long ago every child was taught about guns now the uber foolish liberals are teaching fear and cowering.. They are teaching cowardice and servitude..

“Democracy… while it lasts is more bloody than either aristocracy or monarchy. Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There is never a democracy that did not commit suicide.”

– John Adams

 

[EverCurious]

I'm a non-violent person, but I'm sorry, they started lining folks up and murdering them down one by one. I would not sit patiently by and wait my turn, even if such actions would hasten my death. I would /much/ rather have people with guns on hand. I've been counting my lucky stars that I live in a state that supports gun ownership, in a state where such a thing would not have gone down like that because some 70% of us in the city are packing and there is no fucking way every single one of them would sit idly by and allow the firing line deaths of so many innocent people to occur. My state is military, I'm not worried that they don't know where to aim.

Perhaps it's time for us to mandate gun training for /every/ American citizen, let us all have the knowledge and tools to protect ourselves.

You, dearie, have no fucking clue what you would have done were you in that horrible situation. You have no inkling. You can sit here and spew idiotic opinions about woulda coulda shoulda, but (hopefully) you will never really know how you would have reacted in that situation.

Yes, having a gun in that situation would have helped you - possibly - if you had the good luck of being in some sort of advantageous position - but even that's not certain. Or it might have hastened your death because by brandishing a gun you might have been the number one corpse ... These terrorists were according to the reports 'battle hardened.' How fucking battle hardened are you?

I don't hmmm? Go ahead and set up some ISIS fucks to come attack Alaska and test your theory then. I can guarantee you they won't get off 420+ shots on us...

And for the record, my husband is a vet of the war in cuba West Point, and my father is a retired four star general. How /I/, nor the children, nor other wives, would have "reacted" is not what terrorists should be concerned with; but rather the 70% who carry.

 

[2aguy]

In the various places of the attacks in France...if you were there...and had the option...would you want to have had a concealed pistol...or would you have preferred to be unarmed....?

I would prefer to live in a world where shit like this didn't go down and there wouldn't exist a reason to carry a lethal weapon on my person. Ever. I've lived in a civilised society my entire life, so I'm hoping it stays that way ... Lethal force is the force of the weak.

Please...explain that to the criminals and mass shooters....they need to learn that...

 

[2aguy]

A better question, would I want hundreds of others to have guns shooting each other in the dark? Probably not.

A concert hall, a movie theater, a stadium full of gun-totin' "good guys". Of course not! How do you tell the terrorists from the uber-patriotic wacko nut jobs? Or are they the same....hmmm.

Yeah...only dumb people imply they might be the same...

First clue as to identifying mass shooters....they shout allah ahkbar and start shooting innocent people near them

Yeah...I don't think you need a second clue after the first one.

the good guys...are not shooting the innocent people around them......or shouting allah ahbar as they do it.....

 

[Neser Boha]

The stupid idiotic point this thread is trying to make is just so ... fucking fucked up. I marvel at how y'all can't see THAT.

The point goes to our US constitutional right to keep ban bear arms.. There are many reasons why we need too. Your failure to understand them is on you.

I couldn't give two shits about your stupid ass obsolete constitution. There. Now fuck off.

In the various places of the attacks in France...if you were there...and had the option...would you want to have had a concealed pistol...or would you have preferred to be unarmed....?

I would prefer to live in a world where shit like this didn't go down and there wouldn't exist a reason to carry a lethal weapon on my person. Ever. I've lived in a civilised society my entire life, so I'm hoping it stays that way ... Lethal force is the force of the weak.

Please...explain that to the criminals and mass shooters....they need to learn that...

I've never been shot at or threatened with a gun, so I see no reason to have a gun. Plus all the facts suggest that owning a gun is in itself dangerous. I have kids, we live in a civilised secular society ... no reason to own guns.

Funny story, the only time someone pulled a gun on me was when I passed an obvious inbred redneck in his huge pick up truck on the highway going to Atlanta ... his little ego got so hurt that a little girl in a Neon passed his 'dick enhancer' that he had to wave another 'dick enhancer' at me to show me who's boss ...

So yeah, whatever. At least there are no school shootings where I'm from and definitely no kids shooting other kids while playing with their grandpa's arsenal ...

We all create the world we live in, don't we.

 

[EverCurious]

I'm pretty happy with my world, 70% carry in the city, 86+% in the bush. Oddly we don't have that kind of bullshit on the roads or a lot of crime, despite being very gun friendly. There's been a gun in my house through all my kids, locked in a box so they couldn't accidently get their hands on it. My kids have all learned to shoot now, the youngest is 16.

The guy who waved the gun at you on the road, would very likely be reported to the police and get pulled over. That's not acceptable up here, I doubt it is by most gun owners frankly.