Illinois governor strikes blow for taxapyers...q

[thereisnospoon]

You mean they SUBSIDIZE and NATIONALIZE their manufacturing.
The good socialists they are.
News flash: the low skilled 5th grade education manufacturing jobs are GONE FOR GOOD and good riddance. And the high tech skilled jobs are coming back, Apple plant for one and more to come. Why? Take a wild guess.

You keep telling yourself what the plutocrats are doing to this country is a good thing.

The Romanovs thought everything was fine, too... until they stormed the Winter Palace.

another non sequitur from the master of them.
I must ask, do you really believe the "good old days" of smokestack manufacturing where every task needed human hands on it?
If so, how is this in your mind going to be competitive with the rest of the world?
Obviously with very high labor costs, how would the US become an exporter?
Explain how your numbers would add up.

 

[thereisnospoon]

If the whole world had the same standard of living, you might have a point.

Most jobs can't be outsourced, but we have a vested interest- strategically, in keeping our manufacturing here.

The rest of the world- again- gets this. They protect their manufacturing.

No..They COMPETE for it. A concept abhorrent to you people.
You believe industry should be "protected"....No!
The US got into the manufacturing mess it is in by using protective measures. This allowed US manufacturing to lag far behind the rest of the developed world.
While other countries were building state of the art plants using robotics and other highly engineered processes, here in the US we were still kowtowing to unions, operating old smokestack plants that required far too much physical labor to run. In the end, the cost to manufacture here became non-competitive.
Trade wars and protectionism are a waste of time. Nobody wins.

First, I know you are a retard, but unions in Germany and Japan are actually far stronger than they are here.

They even have a say in who the CEO is. Nor do you see them paying their CEO's 7 and 8 figures.

And, yeah, they use protectionism, too. You've obviously never tried to get product into one of these countries, or you'd know this.

First, you are too stupid to realize how stupid you are.
With that out of the way, Japan and Germany have used automation techniques in their plants that US facilities are just now installing.
Germany's unions I know nothing about. Nor do I care. Oh, in Germany, as in the rest of the Western European countries are heavily subsidized by government. Rules of employment make it impossible to get rid of even the most mediocre employees. Hence the reason why the Euro Zone has very high unemployment and massive problems with idle post high school aged youth.
Germany's unions are strong because the government has made laws that make job security a virtual certainty. And before you go "AH HA! SEE I TOLD YA!!. The trade off is VERY high tax rates. Rates that would be intolerable here.
Oh, you don't know shit about Japan. First, you fuckers complain about the 40 hour work week, the French complain about the 35 hour work week...In Japan, work comes first. Everything else from family to health comes LAST. Japanese workers do not take sick days. They ASK if not beg to work through their weekends and don't take vacations.
With these people, it is company first. There is no self. Japanese people function as a group. They do not express themselves as individuals.
A friend of mine went to Japan to check out his employer's facilities in Osaka. He was shocked at the working conditions. Cutting oil all over the floors was a biggest surprise.
So please, don't spout off on things of which you know nothing.
Look, you point is moot. Unions are not making a comeback here. Public employees are being paid far too much in wages and benefits and their compensation is no longer sustainable. The taxpayers have HAD ENOUGH.
So just stop insisting.
24 and counting!

 

[Dirk the Daring]

I guess I have a difference of opinion of who I think is "overpaid".

I have no problem that a cop or a fireman or a teacher makes more money than I do. Their jobs are more stressful and demanding than mine are, and they perform an important public service.

I have a bigger problem with CEO who get 7 and 8 figures, and they usually end up running their companies into the ground, like your hero, the guys who ran HOstess and wonder why after getting their 7 figure salaries, the guys who were working the ovens didn't want to take a 20% pay cut.

lol, JoeB doesn't know the difference between the 'private' sector and the 'public' sector. Why am I not surprised... at all?

Hey JoeB, if, in order to have a job, you were forced to donate money to the republican party, would you do it?

Oh, look everyone, it's a new sock puppet!

I know the difference, guy. It still the same thing. A fair living wage for a working man if fine. An obscene wage for a fat CEO who is just in charge of the cookie jar isn't.

Progressive tax scheme. Public workers should be well paid, and if the private sector wants to keep up, they should pay well, too.

Because we aren't going to get back to prosperity by doing a race to the bottom on wages.

Yes! A 'new' sock puppet who first joined the site back in 2009, with a post history never once in dispute.

Srsly, take an economics 101 course and then please come back and apologize to each and every person who commented in this thread whose time you wasted. And for the record, attempting to explain how you feel about unions is in no way actually determining that you grasp the difference between the private and public work sectors. Your ignorace is on full display, please keep proving it with each and every post you make in this thread.

And furthermore, you didn't answer my question; if, in order to have a job in the field at which were most experienced, you were required to donate money to the republican party, would you do it?

 

[JoeB131]

You mean they SUBSIDIZE and NATIONALIZE their manufacturing.
The good socialists they are.
News flash: the low skilled 5th grade education manufacturing jobs are GONE FOR GOOD and good riddance. And the high tech skilled jobs are coming back, Apple plant for one and more to come. Why? Take a wild guess.

You keep telling yourself what the plutocrats are doing to this country is a good thing.

The Romanovs thought everything was fine, too... until they stormed the Winter Palace.

another non sequitur from the master of them.
I must ask, do you really believe the "good old days" of smokestack manufacturing where every task needed human hands on it?
If so, how is this in your mind going to be competitive with the rest of the world?
Obviously with very high labor costs, how would the US become an exporter?
Explain how your numbers would add up.

Where did I say "smokestack" days? Never did. I recognize technology will change things.

Technology has nothing to do with the fact that 1% control half the wealth, when they certainly aren't doing half the work.

If we were smart, we'd find something for those displaced by technology to do, because, honestly, they'll just vote for socialism otherwise.

Oh, no, wait. They just did. SNAP!

 

[JoeB131]

[
First, you are too stupid to realize how stupid you are.
With that out of the way, Japan and Germany have used automation techniques in their plants that US facilities are just now installing.
Germany's unions I know nothing about. Nor do I care. Oh, in Germany, as in the rest of the Western European countries are heavily subsidized by government. !

There's a lot of shit you know nothing about, you sorry sychophant. Not even sure why I waste time with you.

Again- THIS DISCUSSION IS NOT ABOUT AUTOMATION.

It's about fair wages and fair wealth distribution.

The fact you have a man with a robot building the car has nothing to do with the fact that we let our CEO's get 8 figure salaries to market crap cars, while the Japanese and Germans pay theirs six figure, let the unions have a say in making things, and their cars are pretty damned good.

 

[Skull Pilot]

[
First, you are too stupid to realize how stupid you are.
With that out of the way, Japan and Germany have used automation techniques in their plants that US facilities are just now installing.
Germany's unions I know nothing about. Nor do I care. Oh, in Germany, as in the rest of the Western European countries are heavily subsidized by government. !

There's a lot of shit you know nothing about, you sorry sychophant. Not even sure why I waste time with you.

Again- THIS DISCUSSION IS NOT ABOUT AUTOMATION.

It's about fair wages and fair wealth distribution.

The fact you have a man with a robot building the car has nothing to do with the fact that we let our CEO's get 8 figure salaries to market crap cars, while the Japanese and Germans pay theirs six figure, let the unions have a say in making things, and their cars are pretty damned good.

And we also pay idiots that spin nuts on bolts 8 hours a day 25 dollars an hour.

It's time to face the fact that the low skill high wage unionized job is becoming extinct.

 

[JoeB131]

And we also pay idiots that spin nuts on bolts 8 hours a day 25 dollars an hour.

It's time to face the fact that the low skill high wage unionized job is becoming extinct.

Nothing to do with skill wages, it's about wealth inequality.

Which NEVER, EVER ends well.

France - 1787
Russia - 1917
Cuba - 1959
Iran - 1979

NEVER ENDS WELL. So instead of gloating that you got rid of that good paying job, maybe you need to start watching your own back.

Bcause funny thing about working people. They don't go off and obediently starve so you can enjoy your Dressage Pony.

They end up killing you and eating your dressage pony.

But seriously, it's a mercy for the horse, he's already lost his dignity... the working man won't give up his without a fight.

 

[Gadawg73]

The Romanovs have been dead for how many years, 90?
"They" did storm the Winter Palace as they were great role models for Mao, Pol Pot and may other of your commie friends that slaughtered tens of millions.
That is the way you union goons do business and we fully understand your point Joe.
BTW, how has that been working for you lately?

Pretty darned well, actually. We totally bitch-slapped down the plutocrats in November. I'd say it's working fine. And now the rich dicks are going to have to start paying their fair share. So I'd say that's pretty awesome.

We might yet save you people from yourselves.

No, you bitch slapped the working class folks you claim to want to help.
All of us Plutocrats are putting our $$$ in tax free bonds and other tax free investments and are going to keep riding it out.
Same thing Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, John Kerry and the other mega millionaire Democrats you worship are doing.
You and the dumb masses are as naive and gullible as they come.
You can stand up and take your hands off of your ankles now Joe.

 

[Gadawg73]

And we also pay idiots that spin nuts on bolts 8 hours a day 25 dollars an hour.

It's time to face the fact that the low skill high wage unionized job is becoming extinct.

Nothing to do with skill wages, it's about wealth inequality.

Which NEVER, EVER ends well.

France - 1787
Russia - 1917
Cuba - 1959
Iran - 1979

NEVER ENDS WELL. So instead of gloating that you got rid of that good paying job, maybe you need to start watching your own back.

Bcause funny thing about working people. They don't go off and obediently starve so you can enjoy your Dressage Pony.

They end up killing you and eating your dressage pony.

But seriously, it's a mercy for the horse, he's already lost his dignity... the working man won't give up his without a fight.

You have a misconception of what American free enterprise capitalism is.
Wealth is earned.
I am not obligated to make sure you have any wealth.
End of story. Cry all you want but that is never changing.

 

[JoeB131]

[

No, you bitch slapped the working class folks you claim to want to help.
All of us Plutocrats are putting our $$$ in tax free bonds and other tax free investments and are going to keep riding it out.
Same thing Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, John Kerry and the other mega millionaire Democrats you worship are doing.
You and the dumb masses are as naive and gullible as they come.
You can stand up and take your hands off of your ankles now Joe.

You keep telling yourself that, guy. NO, really.

Frankly, for something that isn't going to effect their lives, the wealthy seem to be whining about it pretty loudly.

 

[JoeB131]

You have a misconception of what American free enterprise capitalism is.
Wealth is earned.
I am not obligated to make sure you have any wealth.
End of story. Cry all you want but that is never changing.

Wealth isn't earned, it's stolen.

Nobody is creating eight figures of wealth personally.

No One.

If someone is getting 8 figures, it means he's ripping off a lot of people getting five figures.

Period.

 

[Jarlaxle]

DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYUM, you are a stupid shit. I have to ask: is it actually painful to be THAT FUCKING STUPID?

 

[Skull Pilot]

And we also pay idiots that spin nuts on bolts 8 hours a day 25 dollars an hour.

It's time to face the fact that the low skill high wage unionized job is becoming extinct.

Nothing to do with skill wages, it's about wealth inequality.

Which NEVER, EVER ends well.

France - 1787
Russia - 1917
Cuba - 1959
Iran - 1979

NEVER ENDS WELL. So instead of gloating that you got rid of that good paying job, maybe you need to start watching your own back.

Bcause funny thing about working people. They don't go off and obediently starve so you can enjoy your Dressage Pony.

They end up killing you and eating your dressage pony.

Listing dates from history does not prove anything,

For your point to mean anything you have to prove that it was income inequality that caused those upheavals.

And artificially high pay for a menial job is not going to stop the inevitable extinction of the low skill high pay job.

 

[JoeB131]

And we also pay idiots that spin nuts on bolts 8 hours a day 25 dollars an hour.

It's time to face the fact that the low skill high wage unionized job is becoming extinct.

Nothing to do with skill wages, it's about wealth inequality.

Which NEVER, EVER ends well.

France - 1787
Russia - 1917
Cuba - 1959
Iran - 1979

NEVER ENDS WELL. So instead of gloating that you got rid of that good paying job, maybe you need to start watching your own back.

Bcause funny thing about working people. They don't go off and obediently starve so you can enjoy your Dressage Pony.

They end up killing you and eating your dressage pony.

Listing dates from history does not prove anything,

For your point to mean anything you have to prove that it was income inequality that caused those upheavals.

And artificially high pay for a menial job is not going to stop the inevitable extinction of the low skill high pay job.

Okay, I guess I would have to prove that a Russian Tsar living in a palace that had rooms made of gold ornate gems while the averge Russian peasent was starving wasn't a cause of social upheavel? Really?

Are you really that ignorant of Russian history? Let's just start out with Russia, because that's an easy one to get your tiny brain around. The Romanovs lived in big palaces, most Russians didn't even own a good pair of shoes. Then the country went to war because the Tsar was having a tiff with his equally inbred cousin the Kaiser and pretty soon, thing got even more miserable for those Russian Peasents.

And all the Bolsheviks had to promise them was "Land, Bread and Peace", and pretty much, they were happy to shoot the Tsar and his whole inbred family.

HELLLLLLO.

I know these things were deviously hidden from you in things called "Books".

 

[Skull Pilot]

Nothing to do with skill wages, it's about wealth inequality.

Which NEVER, EVER ends well.

France - 1787
Russia - 1917
Cuba - 1959
Iran - 1979

NEVER ENDS WELL. So instead of gloating that you got rid of that good paying job, maybe you need to start watching your own back.

Bcause funny thing about working people. They don't go off and obediently starve so you can enjoy your Dressage Pony.

They end up killing you and eating your dressage pony.

Listing dates from history does not prove anything,

For your point to mean anything you have to prove that it was income inequality that caused those upheavals.

And artificially high pay for a menial job is not going to stop the inevitable extinction of the low skill high pay job.

Okay, I guess I would have to prove that a Russian Tsar living in a palace that had rooms made of gold ornate gems while the averge Russian peasent was starving wasn't a cause of social upheavel? Really?

Yes. Prove that it was not an oppressive and capricious government that abused its power and that the root cause was that some people had more money than others.

Are you really that ignorant of Russian history? Let's just start out with Russia, because that's an easy one to get your tiny brain around. The Romanovs lived in big palaces, most Russians didn't even own a good pair of shoes. Then the country went to war because the Tsar was having a tiff with his equally inbred cousin the Kaiser and pretty soon, thing got even more miserable for those Russian Peasents

.

Boiling down such complicated events of history to a single cause is as fucking retarded as voting for someone because they belong to a particular party. Anyone who has ever actually read a book and did not get his opinions spoon fed to him would realize that.

 

[JoeB131]

Listing dates from history does not prove anything,

For your point to mean anything you have to prove that it was income inequality that caused those upheavals.

And artificially high pay for a menial job is not going to stop the inevitable extinction of the low skill high pay job.

Okay, I guess I would have to prove that a Russian Tsar living in a palace that had rooms made of gold ornate gems while the averge Russian peasent was starving wasn't a cause of social upheavel? Really?

Yes. Prove that it was not an oppressive and capricious government that abused its power and that the root cause was that some people had more money than others.

Are you really that ignorant of Russian history? Let's just start out with Russia, because that's an easy one to get your tiny brain around. The Romanovs lived in big palaces, most Russians didn't even own a good pair of shoes. Then the country went to war because the Tsar was having a tiff with his equally inbred cousin the Kaiser and pretty soon, thing got even more miserable for those Russian Peasents

.

Boiling down such complicated events of history to a single cause is as fucking retarded as voting for someone because they belong to a particular party. Anyone who has ever actually read a book and did not get his opinions spoon fed to him would realize that.

Well, the U of I gave me a degree in history, so that makes me a fucking expert, dude.

Here's the funny thing about WWI. It almost brought the WHOLE capitalist system down. The Romanovs, the Hapsburgs, the Hohenzollerns were causing untold misery for their own people, and they damned well near all went Communist.

The Smart rich people in the west went along with seriious reforms, including an income tax, unionization and labor reform laws.

Stupid Rich people in Germany and Italy just went to a harsher form of authoritarianism (Fascism) to protect their profits, and took an even worse ass-beating.

Hmmmmmm.... the one thing we learn from history is that most of you learn nothing from history.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Okay, I guess I would have to prove that a Russian Tsar living in a palace that had rooms made of gold ornate gems while the averge Russian peasent was starving wasn't a cause of social upheavel? Really?

Yes. Prove that it was not an oppressive and capricious government that abused its power and that the root cause was that some people had more money than others.

Are you really that ignorant of Russian history? Let's just start out with Russia, because that's an easy one to get your tiny brain around. The Romanovs lived in big palaces, most Russians didn't even own a good pair of shoes. Then the country went to war because the Tsar was having a tiff with his equally inbred cousin the Kaiser and pretty soon, thing got even more miserable for those Russian Peasents

.

Boiling down such complicated events of history to a single cause is as fucking retarded as voting for someone because they belong to a particular party. Anyone who has ever actually read a book and did not get his opinions spoon fed to him would realize that.

Well, the U of I gave me a degree in history, so that makes me a fucking expert, dude.

Here's the funny thing about WWI. It almost brought the WHOLE capitalist system down. The Romanovs, the Hapsburgs, the Hohenzollerns were causing untold misery for their own people, and they damned well near all went Communist.

The Smart rich people in the west went along with seriious reforms, including an income tax, unionization and labor reform laws.

Stupid Rich people in Germany and Italy just went to a harsher form of authoritarianism (Fascism) to protect their profits, and took an even worse ass-beating.

Hmmmmmm.... the one thing we learn from history is that most of you learn nothing from history.

So you're an expert and yet you have not referenced any material that proves income inequality was the the sole cause of the upheavals you mention.

So when you say you were given a degree i guess you meant it huh?

Tell me do you think being graded on a curve makes you an expert?

 

[Gadawg73]

You have a misconception of what American free enterprise capitalism is.
Wealth is earned.
I am not obligated to make sure you have any wealth.
End of story. Cry all you want but that is never changing.

Wealth isn't earned, it's stolen.

Nobody is creating eight figures of wealth personally.

No One.

If someone is getting 8 figures, it means he's ripping off a lot of people getting five figures.

Period.

So you stole all of your wealth.
You are a bitter ole bitch Josephine.
Jealous and envy is all over you.
I pity you.

 

[Gadawg73]

Okay, I guess I would have to prove that a Russian Tsar living in a palace that had rooms made of gold ornate gems while the averge Russian peasent was starving wasn't a cause of social upheavel? Really?

Yes. Prove that it was not an oppressive and capricious government that abused its power and that the root cause was that some people had more money than others.

Are you really that ignorant of Russian history? Let's just start out with Russia, because that's an easy one to get your tiny brain around. The Romanovs lived in big palaces, most Russians didn't even own a good pair of shoes. Then the country went to war because the Tsar was having a tiff with his equally inbred cousin the Kaiser and pretty soon, thing got even more miserable for those Russian Peasents

.

Boiling down such complicated events of history to a single cause is as fucking retarded as voting for someone because they belong to a particular party. Anyone who has ever actually read a book and did not get his opinions spoon fed to him would realize that.

Well, the U of I gave me a degree in history, so that makes me a fucking expert, dude.

Here's the funny thing about WWI. It almost brought the WHOLE capitalist system down. The Romanovs, the Hapsburgs, the Hohenzollerns were causing untold misery for their own people, and they damned well near all went Communist.

The Smart rich people in the west went along with seriious reforms, including an income tax, unionization and labor reform laws.

Stupid Rich people in Germany and Italy just went to a harsher form of authoritarianism (Fascism) to protect their profits, and took an even worse ass-beating.

Hmmmmmm.... the one thing we learn from history is that most of you learn nothing from history.

You are right.
They taught you nothing about history.

 

[JoeB131]

[

So you're an expert and yet you have not referenced any material that proves income inequality was the the sole cause of the upheavals you mention.

So when you say you were given a degree i guess you meant it huh?

Tell me do you think being graded on a curve makes you an expert?

I don't do links unless I feel like it.

And, yeah, compared to your retarded ass, I am.

Now, I know you probably went to some Home Skule where they taught you those revolutions happened because they forgot Jesus or some such shit...

But the fact is, they were the end result of what happens when you let income inequality go to far. People let stuff burn because they have no interest in maintaining it.