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What would you call me if I hired the white guy over the black who is more qualified?
Really? Show me some places that tracked this in the past. There will always be poor folks. We don't need African Americans, who have been here as long if not longer than many of us, to be a "minority" that will always be relegated to poverty. That's RIDICULOUS and there is nothing particularly "noble" about it. To me it makes perfect sense.I have no idea why you and FlaCalTenn believe the playing field can never be level. Why do you believe the black community CANNOT ever have the same employment rate as whites? Why can't they have the same income levels and levels of education? WHY?I agree with you that making decisions or even tracking groups by race on achievement, employment and income, is looking at the population through a racial lens. It's to overcome inequality, though, not make it worse. Once the playing field is level, and there is no distinguishing between black and white socioeconomically, that should stop being asked about or tracked in any way. Racism means that you feel one race is superior to another's. That is not what Affirmative Action is about. It is to give minorities an equal opportunity in areas they were once denied. We aren't done yet.No, actually it's not. Race is one factor taken into account. Academic performance alone doesn't assure college success and it is not the only thing colleges look at. However, everyone seems to be forgetting that all this is, is an opportunity. It is still on the student to achieve. If they don't, that's on them.
if race is considered in admissions then it is racist by definition. You can't really get around that. You may argue it is justified, that's fine, but don't say it isn't racist.
"Once the playing field is level....." is a noble but impossible goal, and if that is the barometer you will use to decide to stop racial monitoring, you will never stop. The playing field will never be level. Statistics show tall men are more likely to be promoted over short men. So what's next? Shall we force employers to promote more shorter employees. Racism is distinguishing based on race, and some people, nearly all of us in fact, do it to some degree. We can never anticipate the unintended consequences of social engineering.
Please site anytime or place in human history where a diverse society had a level playing field. I admire the goal, but the reality of history is not on your side.
I have to go, but I'm interested in why you think equal results aren't possible.Old lady, my 50 years of working in large urban areas such as Chicago, New York and Houston tells me that those in favor of affirmative action after all this time are not looking for equal opportunity, but want EQUAL RESULTS.
The fact that that's beyond your comprehension speaks volumes.
I know several people who happen to be black who I'd trust over you or Steve_McGarrettSmart. I don't trust blacks. PERIOD.What would you call me if I hired the white guy over the black who is more qualified?
A Republican?What would you call me if I hired the white guy over the black who is more qualified?
And the person that hires a person BECAUSE they are nonwhite and no where near qualified with lower test scores would be the democrat.A Republican?What would you call me if I hired the white guy over the black who is more qualified?
A Republican?What would you call me if I hired the white guy over the black who is more qualified?
Everyone is avoiding the actual point. Why?
I have to go, but I'm interested in why you think equal results aren't possible.[/Old lady, my 50 years of working in large urban areas such as Chicago, New York and Houston tells me that those in favor of affirmative action after all this time are not looking for equal opportunity, but want EQUAL RESULTS.
The fact that that's beyond your comprehension speaks volumes.
I'll explain if you can answer me why basketball players are tall, why only a small percentage of people are able to become neuro surgeons etc.
.
Equal opportunity does not mean equal results. Should we apply affirmative action to "level the playing field" for Asians to play in the NBA?I agree with you that making decisions or even tracking groups by race on achievement, employment and income, is looking at the population through a racial lens. It's to overcome inequality, though, not make it worse. Once the playing field is level, and there is no distinguishing between black and white socioeconomically, that should stop being asked about or tracked in any way. Racism means that you feel one race is superior to another's. That is not what Affirmative Action is about. It is to give minorities an equal opportunity in areas they were once denied. We aren't done yet.No, actually it's not. Race is one factor taken into account. Academic performance alone doesn't assure college success and it is not the only thing colleges look at. However, everyone seems to be forgetting that all this is, is an opportunity. It is still on the student to achieve. If they don't, that's on them.The way it is supposed to work, legally, is that if ALL OTHER THINGS ARE EQUAL, employers are encouraged to hire the minority. If you can show that the white guy is more qualified, you have every right to hire him. If the black guy is more qualified and you hire the white guy anyway, you are just being a typical American employer.Why do we allow Affirmative Action to continue? It selects people based on race which inherently discriminates against others based on race.
What about college admissions? They seem to be exempt from the standard you outlined.
if race is considered in admissions then it is racist by definition. You can't really get around that. You may argue it is justified, that's fine, but don't say it isn't racist.
Here joemamaEqual opportunity does not mean equal results. Should we apply affirmative action to "level the playing field" for Asians to play in the NBA?I agree with you that making decisions or even tracking groups by race on achievement, employment and income, is looking at the population through a racial lens. It's to overcome inequality, though, not make it worse. Once the playing field is level, and there is no distinguishing between black and white socioeconomically, that should stop being asked about or tracked in any way. Racism means that you feel one race is superior to another's. That is not what Affirmative Action is about. It is to give minorities an equal opportunity in areas they were once denied. We aren't done yet.No, actually it's not. Race is one factor taken into account. Academic performance alone doesn't assure college success and it is not the only thing colleges look at. However, everyone seems to be forgetting that all this is, is an opportunity. It is still on the student to achieve. If they don't, that's on them.The way it is supposed to work, legally, is that if ALL OTHER THINGS ARE EQUAL, employers are encouraged to hire the minority. If you can show that the white guy is more qualified, you have every right to hire him. If the black guy is more qualified and you hire the white guy anyway, you are just being a typical American employer.
What about college admissions? They seem to be exempt from the standard you outlined.
if race is considered in admissions then it is racist by definition. You can't really get around that. You may argue it is justified, that's fine, but don't say it isn't racist.
I hear ya, but it's not so much a black thing as it is employment ignorance. We have the same problem around here with some folks (no blacks around here) who grew up in a household where no one was working for an employer and you put them in a situation where they gotta show up to work on time every day and do the job, it's like sending them to Neptune or something. I've been doing some work around those "soft" employment skills. We take it for granted people know that shit--no, they don't. Some people know it and still won't work--but it's not a black thing. When I visited the south, I was struck by the fact that EVERY maid and bellhop and most fast food workers were black.Yeah.Not when the unemployment rate for blacks is still twice that for whites, including blacks with commensurate college educations. Don't think the time has come quite yet. It's definitely better, tho.Absolutely and it played a good role by trying to help lift up an oppressed group of people.
But I submit that, that time has come and gone.
That's cuz blacks be lazy.
Well... They be something.
From 17 to 22 I went to school, raised a kid, played a dangerous game of keep away from psychopathic first husband and worked in a sweatshop of an industrial laundry. It was the worst job I ever had. 12cents a day, breathing chemicals and dust bunnies, health and safety hazards, 120 degree days... Awful.
Except for Bea who was a wonderful friend to me, I never saw a black work there. They tried... they just wouldn't work. Most lasted a day or two. Many lasted til lunch or less. Many left without word. They were hard jobs yeah. Shitty work, but it was work and it was reliable, steady work.
They would not work.
Same thing in another housekeeping/laundry position I was snookered into being supervisor for. This job paid fairly well for unskilled labor and wasn't that hard at all. I was told to get a cultural mix in there and tried. I could not keep a black there.
I hired two meskins that were the most honest, hard working and least complaining people I had on that team.
Blacks won't even learn English.
Here joemamaEqual opportunity does not mean equal results. Should we apply affirmative action to "level the playing field" for Asians to play in the NBA?I agree with you that making decisions or even tracking groups by race on achievement, employment and income, is looking at the population through a racial lens. It's to overcome inequality, though, not make it worse. Once the playing field is level, and there is no distinguishing between black and white socioeconomically, that should stop being asked about or tracked in any way. Racism means that you feel one race is superior to another's. That is not what Affirmative Action is about. It is to give minorities an equal opportunity in areas they were once denied. We aren't done yet.No, actually it's not. Race is one factor taken into account. Academic performance alone doesn't assure college success and it is not the only thing colleges look at. However, everyone seems to be forgetting that all this is, is an opportunity. It is still on the student to achieve. If they don't, that's on them.What about college admissions? They seem to be exempt from the standard you outlined.
if race is considered in admissions then it is racist by definition. You can't really get around that. You may argue it is justified, that's fine, but don't say it isn't racist.
Yao Ming
Nationality: Chinese
Team(s): Rockets
Years active: 2002-2011
Career stats: 486 G, 19 PPG, 9.2 RPG, 1.6 APG, 1.9 BPG
For Asian athletes the world over, it doesn't get bigger than Yao—literally. The guy was 7'6", making him the NBA's third-tallest player, and the fourth tallest Chinese man on record.
Is the percentage of Asian players equal to the percentage of Asians in the United States population? Pointing out one Star Asian NBA player does not remove the disparity.Here joemamaEqual opportunity does not mean equal results. Should we apply affirmative action to "level the playing field" for Asians to play in the NBA?I agree with you that making decisions or even tracking groups by race on achievement, employment and income, is looking at the population through a racial lens. It's to overcome inequality, though, not make it worse. Once the playing field is level, and there is no distinguishing between black and white socioeconomically, that should stop being asked about or tracked in any way. Racism means that you feel one race is superior to another's. That is not what Affirmative Action is about. It is to give minorities an equal opportunity in areas they were once denied. We aren't done yet.No, actually it's not. Race is one factor taken into account. Academic performance alone doesn't assure college success and it is not the only thing colleges look at. However, everyone seems to be forgetting that all this is, is an opportunity. It is still on the student to achieve. If they don't, that's on them.What about college admissions? They seem to be exempt from the standard you outlined.
if race is considered in admissions then it is racist by definition. You can't really get around that. You may argue it is justified, that's fine, but don't say it isn't racist.
Yao Ming
Nationality: Chinese
Team(s): Rockets
Years active: 2002-2011
Career stats: 486 G, 19 PPG, 9.2 RPG, 1.6 APG, 1.9 BPG
For Asian athletes the world over, it doesn't get bigger than Yao—literally. The guy was 7'6", making him the NBA's third-tallest player, and the fourth tallest Chinese man on record.
AA was a temporary measure put in place to try and help the tremendous imbalance that resulted from generations of oppressive and discriminatory policy that we had prior to the civil rights act. The black community had little to no opportunity to gain wealth, proper education, or achieve prosperity in the same way that whites did. You can't just change a law and expect everything to be even.Would you call it racist? And if so why does the program, Affirmative Action get a pass?
That's wrong. You could be missing some excellent workers with that attitude.Smart. I don't trust blacks. PERIOD.What would you call me if I hired the white guy over the black who is more qualified?
Why are parts of it still existing? You say that AA is "no longer in effect and a good thing"?AA was a temporary measure put in place to try and help the tremendous imbalance that resulted from generations of oppressive and discriminatory policy that we had prior to the civil rights act. The black community had little to no opportunity to gain wealth, proper education, or achieve prosperity in the same way that whites did. You can't just change a law and expect everything to be even.Would you call it racist? And if so why does the program, Affirmative Action get a pass?
AA is no longer in effect which is a good thing, but some policies still exists that help minority races and also women gain more opportunity. You can call that racist against white men but that is an extremely narrow and ignorant POV when considering the big picture and our history.
