Immigration is Destroying America.

[RKMBrown]

Nope.

Not even close.

And, I have been articulating my own middle-ground thoughts on the subject, over the course of the past few posts.

Do you always try to put words into peoples' mouths, when you disagree with them.

Is that how you win?

Or think you win?

Name one democrat policy that you support and why.

Ummmmm... OK...

Job Retraining?

The W(orkforce) I(nvestment) A(ct)?

Because it gets people off their asses, back to school, and back out into the world, to make their own way again?

Passed during the Clinton Administration.

With bipartisan support.

And greatly expanded by the present Administration?

Does that count?

NO dumb ass. We don't need the feds to train us. What you are stupid? Why the hell should I pay you to train yourself when you don't effing work for me?

 

[protectionist]

GO FUCK YOURSELF, you Traitor-Moron!!

A testy squatter...

You are correct in sentiment, but not in reasoning. Being of immigrant descent (as we all are if you go back far enough) does not make one a "squatter" in principle or law. The 'person' (I use the term very loosely) with whom you were interacting is a squatter because he has demonstrated that he does not understand, respect, or accept what it means to be an American in principle. Since we are a nation founded upon principle, this is a very significant measure.

The usual utter NONSENSE from an immigrant invader of the worst kind.

 

[protectionist]

I guess it's time yet again to reiterate that there is a very crucial distinction between legal and illegal immigration. Any rational person knows this, of course. They also know, if they simply look at the facts, that the US is anything but "overcrowded." Finally, anyone with even the slightest measurable brain activity knows that one does not make up their own list of 'conclusions' (pulled from the darkest recesses of the digestive tract) and then expect anyone else to accept them as some sort of legitimate point of reference.

1. Little effectual difference between legal and illegal immigration. Any rational person knows this, of course.

2. The US is immensely overcrowded, with mire 10 times the population it should have.

3. The Harms of immigration are obvious, and self-explanatory.

 

[protectionist]

It should be noted that this thread is about immigration and not about bashing any particular religion. I hope certain trolls will stop attempting to divert and derail the thread by going off on tangents about their personal religious bigotry.

And just in case certain individuals have gone off their meds again: No, I am not a Muslim myself. My ancestors emigrated from Ireland only a few generations ago. None of that is really relevant to this discussion, but certain individuals who are clearly losing their struggle with mental illness seem to require the information to forestall any future off-topic idiocy. I am not hopeful that providing this information will be effective, but you can't say I didn't try.

Unlike with Christianity, lying (taqiyya) is accepted and advocated in Islam. From Muslim Islamists, it is expected, and well noted.

 

[Kondor3]

Name one democrat policy that you support and why.

Ummmmm... OK...

Job Retraining?

The W(orkforce) I(nvestment) A(ct)?

Because it gets people off their asses, back to school, and back out into the world, to make their own way again?

Passed during the Clinton Administration.

With bipartisan support.

And greatly expanded by the present Administration?

Does that count?

NO dumb ass. We don't need the feds to train us. What you are stupid? Why the hell should I pay you to train yourself when you don't effing work for me?

I wasn't inviting you to comment upon the validity of the program.

You asked me to identify a Democrat -leaning initiative that I supported, and asked me to reference the reason(s).

I gave you what you asked for, in all courtesy and good faith.

How does that constitute being a dumb-ass?

----------

Edited to add:

Oh, and, while I'm at it...

If you have a Skilled Job to fill...

Would you rather pay to train an American to do the job...

Or would you rather give that meal-ticket to a foreigner who already has the skill, and leave the American on-the-dole?

Paying much higher mid- to long-term costs, to keep that American on-the-dole.

That is the choice you face, in denouncing or supporting such programming.

 

[protectionist]

ROFL caught in yet another blatant lie and you just keep digging and deflecting. Hundreds of people have accepted that you are a lying racist biggot. I'm sure there might be one person who still thinks you are an independent and not an Eisenhower Republican as previously self-identified and still identified by your avatar. And yes, just because you may be hispanic does not mean you are immune to bigotry and racism against immigrants.

I'm a conservative libertarian. I support legal immigration of qualified candidates. And yes, I support multi-culturalism. In my opinion the valid problems you list are all solvable problems by themselves. Further immigration may put emphasis on the problems in the case of accepting immigrants who are not qualified, but immigration is not the cause of these problems. The problems for the most part are caused by the libtard policies.

Perhaps you should qualify which immigrants you are complaining about. Is it the English or Canadian immigrants who come here on green cards and earn the same as if not more than Americans and pay their taxes?

"Caught' ? Where ? How ? You say things, and offer no basis for them.

Now you say >> "Hundreds of people have accepted that you are a lying racist biggot." But I've challenged you to show ONE example of anything I've said that is racist or bigoted, and you've FAILED to do that. All you do is laughably repeat the words over and over, and now ludicrously claim hundreds of other people think it too.

HA HA HA. I doubt that you have any idea how ridiculous you look. Well, let me know when you think you've come up with that ONE EXAMPLE of me saying something racist or bigoted. I'm still waiting for that. And BTW, so are the hundreds of other people.

And you also claim that I identified myself as an Eisenhower Republican. Yeah ? where did I do that ? I think I challenged you on that before, and your FLUNKED on that one too. So I'm still waiting for that too. Got a quote ? Got a Post # ? Got a page # ? Got anything ?

And as a supporter of multiculturalism, you CANNOT be a Conservative. Conservatives are Nationalists. As such, we oppose multiculturalism. We wish to CONSERVE the values and principles, and culture of America. We abide by te definitiion of a NATION > a stable, historically developed community of people, with a territory, economic life, distinctive culture and language in common.
Since you are a multiculturalist, that makes you a LIBERAL, and of the highest degree.

As for immigration itself, sure it is the cause of many of our problems. All listed in the Harms of immigration list. Maybe some of them (like remittances) you are clueless about, but most of these harms are self-explanatory, and even 10 year olds in the 5th grade could understand & explain them easily. And NO, I don't have to qualify which immigrants I'm talking about. Just a quick look at the Harms list shows that ANY immigrants are harmful to America.

I quoted you, ya dumb ass. QUOTED YOU AND PROVIDED A LINK AND CITED THE TEXT

See post #754 with the frigging link ya dumb ass, and the copy of your statement.

Conservatives are not racist bigots like you.

Again WTF are you talking about with the remittances thing? Are you really bitching about someone sending their family money? WTF is wrong with you? You think their money is yours? WTF?

This is the second time I'm having to correct you about this Republican thing. Or is it the 3rd ? Or 4th ?

Sure we can look at Post # 754, quite easily. HERE it is >>

I said >>

"I too, find them to be very unfortunately, 95% stuck in a Reagan world that never really existed. And I've already indicated that quite clearly. But the Reaganism they unfortunately are afflicted with, is seperate from many other issues, which I, as a true conservative (in the Eisenhower mold) do agree with, as I also stated in the OP. And none of this is inconsistent with my postings on other threads (Note: Eisenhower had a 91-92% tax on the wealthiest income brackets for all 8 years of his administration)."

THEN, you said >>
"Which lie of yours should we believe, that you are an Eisenhower Republican who wants an new operation wetback, or the one about you being an Hispanic independent that is just here to blindly list this bullshit pile of lies of yours?"

Notice you said "Republican". I did not. Incredible how even after I've refuted you twice on this, you still keep coming back with it. Well, if you don't mind having your ass handed to you over and over, it's OK with me too.

Game. Set. Match.

PS - you still haven't shown ONE single example of me saying something racist or bigoted. By now , we all just conclude the obvious. You're a LYING ass-clown of the highest degree. HA HA HA HA. Bwa ha ha ha.

 

[Unkotare]

You declaring it thus does not render it thus.

I guess it was just a coincidence this time then that I declared it thus and it IS thus.

You declaring my meaning, and what it truly is to any objective observer, are two different things. Your assessment in the matter is incorrect, and childishly repeating that judgment will not change its inaccuracy.

It's not my fault you are incapable of following your own line of reasoning to its logical conclusion.

 

[Unkotare]

There's nothing substantive to grab onto there...

There is FACT, but you want to ignore that just as you have ignored the many, many charts, studies, articles and research proving the population trends to which I refer. Your inability to realize what they mean is where your remarkable capacity for stupidity comes into play.

There is no 'fact' embedded there.

Not "embedded," based entirely upon. I have supported my position and my claims with FACTS over and and over and over and over and over on this thread. You and the mental case there are just sticking your fingers in your ears at this point. You are not interested in reality, merely in justifying your preconceived notions. That's what the weak-minded like you do.

 

[Unkotare]

Learning about the unknown: the economic impacts of aging in Europe and Central Asia

 

[Kondor3]

There is FACT, but you want to ignore that just as you have ignored the many, many charts, studies, articles and research proving the population trends to which I refer. Your inability to realize what they mean is where your remarkable capacity for stupidity comes into play.

There is no 'fact' embedded there.

Not "embedded," based entirely upon. I have supported my position and my claims with FACTS over and and over and over and over and over on this thread. You and the mental case there are just sticking your fingers in your ears at this point. You are not interested in reality, merely in justifying your preconceived notions. That's what the weak-minded like you do.

Running about, yelling "Collapse is iminent" is not a fact.

You were asked to provide the audience with a summary of the various major symptoms of any such collapse, using your own words.

You have heretofore failed to meet such a challenge.

If you cannot articulate the symptoms of such a collapse then you cannot make your point.

I may be 'weak-minded' but at least I'm reasonably articulate and do not have to lean heavily upon the words of others, to do my 'fighting' for me.

 

[RKMBrown]

"Caught' ? Where ? How ? You say things, and offer no basis for them.

Now you say >> "Hundreds of people have accepted that you are a lying racist biggot." But I've challenged you to show ONE example of anything I've said that is racist or bigoted, and you've FAILED to do that. All you do is laughably repeat the words over and over, and now ludicrously claim hundreds of other people think it too.

HA HA HA. I doubt that you have any idea how ridiculous you look. Well, let me know when you think you've come up with that ONE EXAMPLE of me saying something racist or bigoted. I'm still waiting for that. And BTW, so are the hundreds of other people.

And you also claim that I identified myself as an Eisenhower Republican. Yeah ? where did I do that ? I think I challenged you on that before, and your FLUNKED on that one too. So I'm still waiting for that too. Got a quote ? Got a Post # ? Got a page # ? Got anything ?

And as a supporter of multiculturalism, you CANNOT be a Conservative. Conservatives are Nationalists. As such, we oppose multiculturalism. We wish to CONSERVE the values and principles, and culture of America. We abide by te definitiion of a NATION > a stable, historically developed community of people, with a territory, economic life, distinctive culture and language in common.
Since you are a multiculturalist, that makes you a LIBERAL, and of the highest degree.

As for immigration itself, sure it is the cause of many of our problems. All listed in the Harms of immigration list. Maybe some of them (like remittances) you are clueless about, but most of these harms are self-explanatory, and even 10 year olds in the 5th grade could understand & explain them easily. And NO, I don't have to qualify which immigrants I'm talking about. Just a quick look at the Harms list shows that ANY immigrants are harmful to America.

I quoted you, ya dumb ass. QUOTED YOU AND PROVIDED A LINK AND CITED THE TEXT

See post #754 with the frigging link ya dumb ass, and the copy of your statement.

Conservatives are not racist bigots like you.

Again WTF are you talking about with the remittances thing? Are you really bitching about someone sending their family money? WTF is wrong with you? You think their money is yours? WTF?

This is the second time I'm having to correct you about this Republican thing. Or is it the 3rd ? Or 4th ?

Sure we can look at Post # 754, quite easily. HERE it is >>

I said >>

"I too, find them to be very unfortunately, 95% stuck in a Reagan world that never really existed. And I've already indicated that quite clearly. But the Reaganism they unfortunately are afflicted with, is seperate from many other issues, which I, as a true conservative (in the Eisenhower mold) do agree with, as I also stated in the OP. And none of this is inconsistent with my postings on other threads (Note: Eisenhower had a 91-92% tax on the wealthiest income brackets for all 8 years of his administration)."

THEN, you said >>
"Which lie of yours should we believe, that you are an Eisenhower Republican who wants an new operation wetback, or the one about you being an Hispanic independent that is just here to blindly list this bullshit pile of lies of yours?"

Notice you said "Republican". I did not. Incredible how even after I've refuted you twice on this, you still keep coming back with it. Well, if you don't mind having your ass handed to you over and over, it's OK with me too.

Game. Set. Match.

PS - you still haven't shown ONE single example of me saying something racist or bigoted. By now , we all just conclude the obvious. You're a LYING ass-clown of the highest degree. HA HA HA HA. Bwa ha ha ha.

Eisenhower is a republican, republicans are conservatives, you stupid piece of shit.

 

[Unkotare]

As I said, it should be noted that this thread is about immigration and not about bashing any particular religion. I hope certain trolls will stop attempting to divert and derail the thread by going off on tangents about their personal religious bigotry.

And just in case certain individuals have gone off their meds again: No, I am not a Muslim myself. My ancestors emigrated from Ireland only a few generations ago. None of that is really relevant to this discussion, but certain individuals who are clearly losing their struggle with mental illness seem to require the information to forestall any future off-topic idiocy. I am not hopeful that providing this information will be effective, but you can't say I didn't try.

And, of course, the troll came when called just like a trained poodle.

It's too bad a mentally unstable troll will derail this thread.


While there is still time, recall again that the US is #2 IN THE WORLD in terms of natural resources and has very low population density. We have lots of room, lots of resources, a culture that assimilates new arrivals as well as ever, and a history of immigration proving that legal immigrants are a great boon to the nation. One of our greatest strengths. Add to this a social security system that by 2030 will at best rely on 2 workers to support every one retiree - a snowball that will only roll downhill faster and faster after that - and it is obvious that there is no reason to take seriously the cowardly mewling of xenophobes and idiots who understand neither the character and history of the US, nor basic economics (hell, basic counting!).

 

[Kondor3]

Learning about the unknown: the economic impacts of aging in Europe and Central Asia

Lots of speculative chatter about impact, but very little in the way of specifics.

Another un-focused sky-is-falling op-ed piece.

Not very impressive or informative or helpful.

 

[Kondor3]

While there is still time, recall again that the US is #2 IN THE WORLD in terms of natural resources...

Good. Let's keep it that way.

...and has very low population density...

Good. Let's keep it that way.

...We have lots of room, lots of resources, a culture that assimilates new arrivals as well as ever...

We have doubled our population in 50 years... from 150,000,000 to 300,000,000.

We now have half the room we had 50 years ago.

We now have half the resources-per-person that we had 50 years ago.

...and a history of immigration...

That was then.

This is now.

We don't need large-scale immigration any longer.

If we can't find what we need by going to our own bullpen of 300,000,000+ souls, then we're in deep trouble.

...proving that legal immigrants are a great boon to the nation...

Immigration has, indeed, proven to be a great boon to the nation.

But all good things must come to an end.

Including overly-generous rates of immigration, allowed into the country.

We can probably continue down our present path for another generation or so.

But we're fast approaching the time when we're going to have to begin throttling back on that.

Especially when it comes to making a choice between re-tooling an American worker or punching a meal-ticket for an outsider.

...One of our greatest strengths...

Nolo contendere.

No contest.

Immigration has, indeed, made us stronger.

But we are now reaching the point where we are strong enough, and no longer need it, on the same scale as we have in the past.

It is probably about time to begin a serious national conversation on the pros and cons of continuing down the same path that we have historically.

Just because we did something in the past, and just because that something worked-out to our advantage, does not ipso facto mean that it will always be so.

Things change.

Criteria and conditions and populations and societies and needs change.

America also has a long history of evaluating what works, and what doesn't, and setting aside the old, in favor of the new.

Our general immigration policy is as old as the nation itself, in a manner of speaking.

But we are not bound to remain committed to such a policy, nor are we committed to facilitating any particular level of immigration, one minute longer than it is in the best interests of the United States and its People.

Nothing wrong with targeting an Old Familiar and dragging it out into the light for a long and exhaustive scrutiny over whether we should retain it, or move on to something different.

...Add to this a social security system that by 2030 will at best rely on 2 workers to support every one retiree - a snowball that will only roll downhill faster and faster after that ...

The answer to meeting short-term (until the Boomer generation dies off) demand is NOT to set the stage for still greater FUTURE demand - by admitting more eventual pensioners.

That particular madness has to stop sometime - the sooner, the less painful, for ourselves or our descendants.

...and it is obvious that there is no reason to take seriously the cowardly mewling of xenophobes and idiots who understand neither the character and history of the US, nor basic economics (hell, basic counting!).

People who oppose your perspective on Immigration are neither cowardly nor xenophobic nor idiotic nor un-educated nor oblivious to potential ramifications.

People who do not buy into your doom-and-gloom sky-is-falling speculation about a 'collapse', should we throttle back on immigration, are neither cowardly nor xenophobic nor idiotic nor un-educated nor oblivious to potential ramifications.

Spare us the histrionics and drama-queen monologue.

 

[Unkotare]

I may be 'weak-minded' but at least I'm reasonably articulate and do not have to lean heavily upon the words of others, to do my 'fighting' for me.

It's a good idea for the likes of you not to do any kind of fighting. As for this, or any other discussion, when someone makes a claim it is incumbent upon them to support that claim with facts, evidence, and any studies or research as may be relevant. I have done so on this thread so many times it has almost become comical. You, unable to refute a point, have gone to the absurd length of attempting to discredit supporting facts in general. That's known as going off the deep end, champ. You have put yourself in league with the headcase by now.

Congratulations.

 

[Fishlore]

Immigration has been destroying America since the days of Jamestown and Plymouth.

 

[Kondor3]

I may be 'weak-minded' but at least I'm reasonably articulate and do not have to lean heavily upon the words of others, to do my 'fighting' for me.

It's a good idea for the likes of you not to do any kind of fighting. As for this, or any other discussion, when someone makes a claim it is incumbent upon them to support that claim with facts, evidence, and any studies or research as may be relevant. I have done so on this thread so many times it has almost become comical. You, unable to refute a point, have gone to the absurd length of attempting to discredit supporting facts in general. That's known as going off the deep end, champ. You have put yourself in league with the headcase by now.

Congratulations.

You continue to duck and weave and avoid the core question, in this latest sequence.

Tell us, in your own words, the symptoms of 'collapse' that you tell us are likely to unfold, should we throttle-back on immigration.

Forget me.

Forget my affiliations or opinions or character or mental state or any of that happy horseshit.

Just tell us, in your own words, what those symptoms of 'collapse' are going to be, should we dare to oppose your viewpoint on immigration, and begin to throttle back on same.

Your own words.

That is, assuming you have that capacity within you.

 

[Unkotare]

Learning about the unknown: the economic impacts of aging in Europe and Central Asia

Lots of speculative chatter about impact, but very little in the way of specifics.

Another un-focused sky-is-falling op-ed piece.

Not very impressive or informative or helpful.

If you can't read well, go take a remedial English class. If you simply refuse to, then STFU and stop pretending to 'discuss' the topic.

 

[Kondor3]

Learning about the unknown: the economic impacts of aging in Europe and Central Asia

Lots of speculative chatter about impact, but very little in the way of specifics.

Another un-focused sky-is-falling op-ed piece.

Not very impressive or informative or helpful.

If you can't read well, go take a remedial English class. If you simply refuse to, then STFU and stop pretending to 'discuss' the topic.

All you are being asked to do, is to make a statement, in your own words, illustrating the symptoms of 'collapse' that we are likely to experience, should we fail to follow your strident advice, and begin to throttle back immigration.

That is a call to 'discuss', not a barrier to discussion.

So... discuss... do not feed us links... discuss... using your own words.

Tell us HOW the sky is going to fall, if we fail to follow your advice.

Stop deflecting with imprecations about reading ability, and do what you are accusing others of setting up barriers to doing... namely... discussion.

So... discuss.

In your own words.

What are the symptoms of this 'collapse' you speak of?

Otherwise, take-up the offal that you hurl at others, by being a barrier to discussion, yourself.

The Cliffs' Notes summary-level 10000-foot macro-level overview will do nicely, thank you.

 

[Unkotare]

The answer to meeting short-term (until the Boomer generation dies off) demand is NOT to set the stage for still greater FUTURE demand - by admitting more eventual pensioners.

Does this sound familiar?

"we are not talking about a defined group of people sitting in a room waiting to die for your convenience, idiot. We are talking about population trends, wherein there are more and more elderly living longer and longer supported by fewer and fewer young people working. That equation leads to collapse long before enough people have died to satisfy your blood lust, comrade. "


Those were even my own words, not one of those scary links to graphs, studies, and research that you are so frightened of.