Immigration is Destroying America.

[Kondor3]

As to population size, who gives a damn whether we have 150,000,000 or 300,000,000?

Anyone with the ability to think rationally and the willingness to look beyond the end of their own nose. That does not, it is by now apparent, include you.

Why give a damn whether we have 150,000,000 or 300,000,000?

 

[protectionist]

As to population size, who gives a damn whether we have 150,000,000 or 300,000,000?

Anyone with the ability to think rationally and the willingness to look beyond the end of their own nose. That does not, it is by now apparent, include you.

The more population we have above 30 Million, the more we increase THESE >>

Harms of Immigration

1. Americans lose jobs. (especially Whites due to affirmative action).

2. Wage reduction.

3. Tax $ lost (due to off books work + lower wages paid).

4. Remittance $$$ lost. ($170 Billion year).

5. Tax $$ lost to immigrants on welfare.

6. Increased crime.

7. Increased traffic congestion.

8. Increased pollution.

9. Overcrowding in hospital ERs.

10. Overcrowding in recreational facilities.

11. Overcrowding in government offices.

12. Overcrowding in schools.

13. Decrease in funds available for entitlements.

14. Cultural erosion.

15. Overuse of scarce resources (oil, gasoline, fresh water, jobs, electricity, food, etc)

16. Introduction of foreign diseases.

 

[Unkotare]

Come back and find me when you've managed to accomplish that; a state of affairs that has escaped us to date.

I've already explained this to you, brainless.

Refresh my memory.

I've repeated myself enough for you. Go back and read the thread again if you have to.

 

[Kondor3]

I've already explained this to you, brainless.

Refresh my memory.

I've repeated myself enough for you. Go back and read the thread again if you have to.

Not even a link to the Particulars you have in mind?

Or DO you have Particulars in mind?

Oh, and, by the way...

When you DO come up with that link, to the Particulars that you have in mind, to cure unemployment and our various shortages of housing and education and medical care, et al...

Be sure to send that to the White House, as well...

They could use some high-order help along those lines...

 

[protectionist]

Come back and find me when you've managed to accomplish that; a state of affairs that has escaped us to date.

I've already explained this to you, brainless.

Refresh my memory.

How do we care for our own millions of unemployed and under-employed and under-educated and under-housed and lacking medical care and other necessities of life?

Not by allowing immigration to swipe away jobs, overcrowd schools and hospitals, and drive housing prices up.

 

[RKMBrown]

Who the hell wants a larger population? I want a larger population. Growth is good. Plenty of room here. As a matter of fact most areas are empty.

We can't even properly care for (employ, house, educate, treat) those souls already living within our borders. Not our job to employ, house, educate, or treat anyone. That people like you, evidently, assume this is the necessary case and want to hand this stuff out is the problem.

Frankly, we could drop 50,000,000 over the next 25-50 years through simple attrition and not blink an eye. Shrinking population results in empty malls, empty houses, empty apartment buildings, and reduction in the number of people to sell your wares to. Shrinking is not better than growing.

Growth merely for the sake of growth is an errant concept. No it's not.

That is not advocacy on behalf of stagnation. Yes it is.

Merely advocacy for respite time, to consolidate what we already have, and to begin focusing upon Quality of Life rather than Quantity. Nonsense, quality of life is not improved by limiting growth. You're conflating issues by making baseless assumptions.


Surrendering our manufacturing capacity is due to greedy phukkers shipping our jobs overseas in order to increase corporate profit margins, while the vote-whores in BOTH mainstream parties colluded to make that happen. Again, your side calls me a greedy phukker cause I expect a return on investment. The problem is we as a country have made it more efficient to move jobs overseas. More particularly, through Anti-American regulations. For example the tax structure punishes American Corporations while benefiting foreign investments. Then you scream at our corporations for refusing to throw their investor's money away. Moving production jobs is an accounting decision, fix the accounting problem and the jobs will come back. There's nothing wrong or anti-American about being greedy. But there is something wrong with chasing work off-shore to get someone elected.


Whatever in the world leads you to believe that I"m surprised or shocked? It's just an expression. Labor Unions must bear their share of the blame, as must greedy, overtaxing government, but let's not kid ourselves that the PRIMARY reason why those jobs went offshore was due to the greed of the Business Community, later reinforced and institutionalized by Consumer Greed. Again, what's wrong with wanting to earn a living? You appear to believe corporations should be paying you an overpriced wage for work they can get much cheaper and with less punishing regulations somewhere else. Why should I throw away my retirement investment to subsidize your wage? What should happen is our government should make it make financial sense for production to occur here, but they won't cause that would make to much sense.


----------

The Immigration Reform and Control Act (IRCA), Pub.L. 99–603, 100 Stat. 3445, enacted November 6, 1986, also known as the Simpson-Mazzoli Act, is an Act of Congress which reformed United States immigration law. The act...

* required employers to attest to their employees' immigration status;
* made it illegal to knowingly hire or recruit illegal immigrants;
* legalized certain seasonal agricultural illegal immigrants, and;
* legalized illegal immigrants who entered the United States before January 1, 1982 and had resided there continuously with the penalty of a fine, back taxes due
* and admission of guilt;
* candidates were required to prove that they were not guilty of crimes
* that they were in the country before January 1, 1982
* and that they possessed minimal knowledge about U.S. history, government, and the English language

About three million illegal immigrants were granted legal status through this act.[citation needed]

Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

----------

That was for 3,000,000 Illegal Aliens.

And now we have 12,000,000.

35 years after those work-related conditions were first tried.

"Your honor, the Prosecution rests."

Yes, and as Reagan used to say before he died. Trusting the that the democrats would shut the border down in return for amnesty was one of the biggest mistakes of his presidency.


Sure it does.

They work to prop-up the Safety Net for 20-30 years.

Then they retire, and want their share, and the demand is even greater, at future-inflated prices. SS/medicare are not a safety net, they are not welfare. Don't confuse SS with welfare/disability.


The pie doesn't need to grow any larger. Sooner or later the ponzi scheme has to end. The SS ponzi is a disparate issue.

But so do American workers, when they're retrained and retooled and re-employed and back to being Paying Customers once again.

I'd rather that go to my own people than outsiders. I'd rather it go to no one, why should I be forced to buy someone's education. Why can't they earn their own dam education like I did?

The limits are, indeed, elastic, but they exist nonetheless, and I'd rather try doing a better job taking care of our own for once, rather than continuing to rely on outside worker bees.

The only people stopping you from taking care of our own is the GD taxes that take our income to force us to fund the GD hand-outs instead of hand-up programs. Frigging ass holes pissing away our income, democrats picking and choosing winners based on who's back is being scratched, that is the real problem.

In blue.

 

[RKMBrown]

I've already explained this to you, brainless.

Refresh my memory.

How do we care for our own millions of unemployed and under-employed and under-educated and under-housed and lacking medical care and other necessities of life?

Not by allowing immigration to swipe away jobs, overcrowd schools and hospitals, and drive housing prices up.

Yeah cause home prices not keeping up with inflation is good for home builders.

 

[RKMBrown]

Understood... all along.


Whatever for?

And in what direction? (metaphorically speaking)

We've already allowed Big Business to surrender our manufacturing capacity.

We've already allowed Business of all sizes to undermine American Labor with near -slave wages for Illegals.

Generally speaking, don't we have enough already? How much more is enough?


The single largest manifestation of that behavior is the intentions of both mainstream political parties to grant a Shamnesty to the 12,000,000.


Hell, the 'dumb ass welfare state' is the single largest reason WHY both mainstream vote-whoring parties want to grant the 12,000,000 a Shamnesty... to let 'em prop-up the Safety Net for another 20-40 years... which is all well and good until the 12,000,000 come knocking on the door for the same benefits later in life. That's just kicking the can down the road.


A better way to 'grow' is to invest our time and energy in retraining and retooling our own people, rather than letting them languish in increasingly large numbers while we mindlessly continue bringing in fresh worker-bees.


Yes. It's been tried before, I believe. Repeatedly.


If that were true, we would not have so many millions of unemployed, and so many people without proper housing and education and medical care and all the rest. I see no point in bringing-in more hungry mouths to feed when they already exist amongst us in staggering numbers, nor do I see any point in narrowing our resources-per-capita margins much further.

There's nothing wrong with the idea of taking a couple of decades of respite-time from the Immigration Polka, catching our breath after this latest Great Depression, spending some time rebuilding and retooling and looking after our own, and then revisiting the Immigration idea with an eye towards accommodating large numbers once again.

It's 180-degrees out from your own position but that sort of contrast is healthy, too, in its own way; letting some daylight into the situation from several angles.

That sort of contrast is the stuff of higher-order and serious National Conversations, in think-tank mode.

NONSENSE

Growth as in larger population, vs. shrinking as in smaller population.


Surrendering our manufacturing capacity is due to democrat anti-american production pro-foreign production regulations, and socialism. Why pretend to be shocked that making enemies of production and profit moves it elsewhere?

Conditions on immigration have always worked, your accusation that it's been tried before and failed is a bullshit lie.

Yes the welfare state and the mentality that comes with it, is the pretty much the only real problem this country has.

Bringing in immigrants does not give them a portion of the effing pie, it grows the size of the pie. Do you not understand that they produce? Do you not understand that they purchase? The thinking that there is some fixed number of jobs and fixed amount of money is wrong and stupid.

1. Immigration IS "pro-foreign production". It is foreigners getting control over American production > It's jobs, it's wages, its working conditions, and reducing all of these to bare minimum standards.

2. Bringing in immigrants certainly does give them a portion of the effing pie, precisely 20 million jobs that should in the possession of 20 million UNEMPLOYED AMERICANS.

3. The immigrants don't produce anything more than the UNEMPLOYED AMERICANS whom they replace.

4. Purchasing is one of the main arguments AGAINST immigration (illegal & legal). Because of the massive level of immigrant remittance-sending, $70 Billion/year in purchases are LOST from the US economy. Instead of US businesses getting these purchases, they go to the home countries of the immigrants, after the money is wired out of the country. They are then re-inserted into the immigrants' home countries by way of purchases made THERE ($25 Billion/year just to Mexico alone)

5. Most of the "welfare state" problem you mentioned is due to immigrants, as I've shown about 7 times already in this thread. In 2009 (based on data collected in 2010), 57 percent of households headed by an immigrant (legal and illegal) with children (under 18) used at least one welfare program, compared to 39 percent for native households with children.

Welfare Use by Immigrant Households with Children | Center for Immigration Studies

No, the problem with welfare is welfare. Working immigrants don't collect welfare. Duh!

 

[Unkotare]

Refresh my memory.

I've repeated myself enough for you. Go back and read the thread again if you have to.

Not even a link to the Particulars you have in mind?

I've put about a hundred links in this thread, you lazy shit.

 

[RKMBrown]

[MENTION=45665]protectionist[/MENTION] still waiting on your response to http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/349938-immigration-is-destroying-america-30.html#post9079076

 

[TemplarKormac]

Funny, other nations have strict punishments for those who enter illegally. Us? We have them too, but somehow we think it is cruel to enforce them. Yeah, immigration isn't destroying America, this simple disregard for the law is. You want to come here? Do it legally.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Protectionist, you're embarrassing. I can't stand xenophobes. Immigration is not destroying America, it strengthens it. It's the illegal part that does harm. Just you remember that.

 

[bonehead]

Here are what I see as the HARMS of Immigration (in America). Feel free to dispute, debate, confirm, or whatever on any one or combination of these. This should be a good, rousing debate (but please try to stay on topic)

Harms of Immigration

1. Americans lose jobs. (especially Whites due to affirmative action).

2. Wage reduction.

3. Tax $ lost (due to off books work + lower wages paid).

4. Remittance $$$ lost. ($170 Billion year).

5. Tax $$ lost to immigrants on welfare.

6. Increased crime.

7. Increased traffic congestion.

8. Increased pollution.

9. Overcrowding in hospital ERs.

10. Overcrowding in recreational facilities.

11. Overcrowding in government offices.

12. Overcrowding in schools.

13. Decrease in funds available for entitlements.

14. Cultural erosion.

15. Overuse of scarce resources (oil, gasoline, fresh water, jobs, electricity, food, etc)

16. Introduction of foreign diseases

kinda glad the Native Americans haven't picked up on this - they were probably saying the same thing a few hundred years ago. you know, when the white Europeans brought diseases here and killed off a bunch of them. surprised they haven't sued our government for that one.

 

[Kondor3]

I've repeated myself enough for you. Go back and read the thread again if you have to.

Not even a link to the Particulars you have in mind?

I've put about a hundred links in this thread, you lazy shit.

You claimed to have proven time and again how you can cure unemployment and shortages in housing and education and medical care, etc., as part of our discussion as to the continued desirability of large-scale immigration of any kind.

When challenged to produce a link to an existing post in which you have demonstrated the particulars of that cure, you fail to produce that simple reinforcement of your claims, and fall back upon name-calling and insults once again.

Predictable, and, at the same time, rather pathetically comical.

Either you have already demonstrated how to cure those ills, or you have not, and the burden of the proof of your claim is upon you.

I am no more, nor no less, lazy than the next fellow.

But ranging through 50+ pages of your juvenile insults and denigrating behaviors, directed against those who oppose your stance, exceeds the average person's capacity for filtering through bile... no thank you.

If you have a link to one of your preexisting posts, which serves-up particulars on how to cure unemployment and those shortages we've been discussing, by all means, here is your chance to produce that evidence.

If not, well, it's probably safe to write-off your claims as a mere continuation of previously manifested and well-documented juvenile behaviors directed against your colleagues (peers, fellow posters).

Whether you can back up your claim or not is a matter of indifference to me, although I won't be surprised in the slightest to see you continue to duck and weave like we all once did back on the 5th grade junior debate team.

 

[Kondor3]

Refresh my memory.

How do we care for our own millions of unemployed and under-employed and under-educated and under-housed and lacking medical care and other necessities of life?

Not by allowing immigration to swipe away jobs, overcrowd schools and hospitals, and drive housing prices up.

Yeah cause home prices not keeping up with inflation is good for home builders.

By the same token, raising the demand for housing by admitting more competition for homes and for loan-dollars does no service to the pool of folks hoping to acquire a home of their own.

 

[RKMBrown]

Not by allowing immigration to swipe away jobs, overcrowd schools and hospitals, and drive housing prices up.

Yeah cause home prices not keeping up with inflation is good for home builders.

By the same token, raising the demand for housing by admitting more competition for homes and for loan-dollars does no service to the pool of folks hoping to acquire a home of their own.

Yeah cause legal immigrants don't work in housing and can't produce anything, and we'll never figure out how to expand credit in this country ...

 

[protectionist]

Not by allowing immigration to swipe away jobs, overcrowd schools and hospitals, and drive housing prices up.

Yeah cause home prices not keeping up with inflation is good for home builders.

By the same token, raising the demand for housing by admitting more competition for homes and for loan-dollars does no service to the pool of folks hoping to acquire a home of their own.

Exactly. I'm more worried about us home buyers and renters and what we have to pay for a place to live, not what some home builders are doing. If they have it tough, too bad. They chose their occupation. They made their bed . Let them sleep in it.

Home builders! Sheeesh!

 

[protectionist]

Not even a link to the Particulars you have in mind?

I've put about a hundred links in this thread, you lazy shit.

You claimed to have proven time and again how you can cure unemployment and shortages in housing and education and medical care, etc., as part of our discussion as to the continued desirability of large-scale immigration of any kind.

When challenged to produce a link to an existing post in which you have demonstrated the particulars of that cure, you fail to produce that simple reinforcement of your claims, and fall back upon name-calling and insults once again.

Predictable, and, at the same time, rather pathetically comical.

Either you have already demonstrated how to cure those ills, or you have not, and the burden of the proof of your claim is upon you.

I am no more, nor no less, lazy than the next fellow.

But ranging through 50+ pages of your juvenile insults and denigrating behaviors, directed against those who oppose your stance, exceeds the average person's capacity for filtering through bile... no thank you.

If you have a link to one of your preexisting posts, which serves-up particulars on how to cure unemployment and those shortages we've been discussing, by all means, here is your chance to produce that evidence.

If not, well, it's probably safe to write-off your claims as a mere continuation of previously manifested and well-documented juvenile behaviors directed against your colleagues (peers, fellow posters).

Whether you can back up your claim or not is a matter of indifference to me, although I won't be surprised in the slightest to see you continue to duck and weave like we all once did back on the 5th grade junior debate team.

Here's how to cure unemployment.

1. Get rid of all the illegal aliens in the country (mass deportation like Operation Wetback).

2. Stop admitting immigrants legally, and

3. Facilitate exit of immigrants wishing to return to their homelands.

 

[protectionist]

Here are what I see as the HARMS of Immigration (in America). Feel free to dispute, debate, confirm, or whatever on any one or combination of these. This should be a good, rousing debate (but please try to stay on topic)

Harms of Immigration

1. Americans lose jobs. (especially Whites due to affirmative action).

2. Wage reduction.

3. Tax $ lost (due to off books work + lower wages paid).

4. Remittance $$$ lost. ($170 Billion year).

5. Tax $$ lost to immigrants on welfare.

6. Increased crime.

7. Increased traffic congestion.

8. Increased pollution.

9. Overcrowding in hospital ERs.

10. Overcrowding in recreational facilities.

11. Overcrowding in government offices.

12. Overcrowding in schools.

13. Decrease in funds available for entitlements.

14. Cultural erosion.

15. Overuse of scarce resources (oil, gasoline, fresh water, jobs, electricity, food, etc)

16. Introduction of foreign diseases

kinda glad the Native Americans haven't picked up on this - they were probably saying the same thing a few hundred years ago. you know, when the white Europeans brought diseases here and killed off a bunch of them. surprised they haven't sued our government for that one.

Whatever. This thread is about 2012, not 1814.

 

[protectionist]

Protectionist, you're embarrassing. I can't stand xenophobes. Immigration is not destroying America, it strengthens it. It's the illegal part that does harm. Just you remember that.

A few pages ago, I mentioned a list of posts that explain why immigration is harmful to America. ALL immigration, not just illegal. I suggest you look it up and read those posts.
PS- I don't especially care for xenophobes either.