Immigration... Whats wrong with the GOP?

[Toddsterpatriot]

The GOP is supposed to be the job friendly party that promotes free enterprise... When it comes to illegal immigration why is nobody proposing a way to create jobs and put 11 million immigrants to work? We have a tremendous opportunity to kickstart our industries and the workforce available to do it. Why not utilize it? Why does nobody explore this avenue instead of wasting years and billions of dollars fighting to send them back and shrink our economic potential?

View attachment 67464​

They're stupid is what is wrong with them. There are 10K babyboomers entering Social Security/Medicare on a daily basis and this will continue for the next 12 years. This results in another 87 trillion in unfunded liabilities.

Back in the 50's the average family size was 4 kids, over the last several decades family sizes reduced to 2 or less kids.

IOW--There are not enough younger working people in this country to support these funds, and the Reich wing of the Republican party is too stupid to realize that we have to have immigration reform to keep those Social Security checks rolling in.

Here is a great article on the mentality of a Trump supporter, and why economists have stated immigration is GOOD to keep this economy going.
Column: Trump exploits rational political ignorance

IOW--There are not enough younger working people in this country to support these funds, and the Reich wing of the Republican party is too stupid to realize that we have to have immigration reform to keep those Social Security checks rolling in.

Right, the best way to pay for Social Security is to legalize millions of low skilled-low wage workers who will get more benefits than they will ever pay in taxes.

 

[80zephyr]

Think about how ridiculous your dream world is.

You want 11 million more people to be able to stay in this country legally which is an open invitation for more people to come here and break our laws. That of course would likely put Democrats in charge for generations which would insure more government dependents like those unemployed you speak of. Furthermore with their constant desire to "make those people pay their fair share" they would leave wealthy people little money to invest with, and chase many of them out of our country taking their jobs with them.

Why don't you think about this: President Trump gets rid of all these illegals for us. That opens up millions of job opportunities which in turn would create competition between employers to hire American workers. Because of that, jobs start paying more because employers would have no choice but to offer more, and eventually some of these people will find their way off of our social programs saving us billions. And who knows, we may even return to an all English speaking country again.

Yours is just as much of a dream world as mine. Fix our border and immigration system, I'm fine with that. But we aren't going to rip 11 million people away from their jobs, families and communities... It just isn't going to happen. So we can keep fighting about it or we can work on productive solutions. That's my point.

The jobs and the communities aren't theirs. They're illegal. They have no right to any of those things. Why don't you think law breakers should have things taken from then that don't belong to them? As for their families, they can go back to Mexico with them or stay here. It's up to them. It's not my problem. The "productive solution" is to deport them, no matter how much douche bags like you object.

Granny/Gramps are taking any American jobs. Shouldn't get benefits. Shouldn't vote. Why would you have a problem with them staying?

We all know they will get to vote. The minute Congress makes them legal, the Dims will be demanding they get the right to vote. Furthermore, home many 80-year-old illegals do you think there are in this country? Reagan granted them all amnesty 30 years ago, that means no illegals can have been here more than 30 years. Illegals tend to be young. You'll seldom see any 50 year olds crossing the border.

Ok -- so they are 50 or 60 or 70 years old. I said --- Dont' let them vote. Don't give them benefits. They will die here still illegal.. You got a problem with them dying in the country their American kids and grandkids live in now??? Just stop the leakage -- then deport the recent illegals..

Don't you think we have been lied to enough? I highly doubt it would work out like you envision. People see old people without benefits, cave in and give them benefits.

Mark

 

[Slade3200]

The GOP is supposed to be the job friendly party that promotes free enterprise... When it comes to illegal immigration why is nobody proposing a way to create jobs and put 11 million immigrants to work? We have a tremendous opportunity to kickstart our industries and the workforce available to do it. Why not utilize it? Why does nobody explore this avenue instead of wasting years and billions of dollars fighting to send them back and shrink our economic potential?

View attachment 67464​

They're stupid is what is wrong with them. There are 10K babyboomers entering Social Security/Medicare on a daily basis and this will continue for the next 12 years. This results in another 87 trillion in unfunded liabilities.

Back in the 50's the average family size was 4 kids, over the last several decades family sizes reduced to 2 or less kids.

IOW--There are not enough younger working people in this country to support these funds, and the Reich wing of the Republican party is too stupid enough to realize that we have to have immigration reform to keep those Social Security checks rolling in.

Here is a great article on the mentality of a Trump supporter, and why economists have stated immigration is GOOD to keep this economy going.
Column: Trump exploits rational political ignorance

Social Security isn't going to be kept afloat by Third World Immigrants making shit wages.

All we will do is buy a little time at the cost of vastly decreasing Social Capital and Cohesion.


And when the crunch comes anyways, we will be less able to with the crisis.

Why is nobody proposing a massive scale jobs initiative?? Build wind and solar farms across the US, transcontinental transportation to make shipping and commerce faster and cheaper, increase and improve our water and agriculture systems, build industry that will increase exports... There are so many things that could create jobs, raise our GDP, bring people out of the shadows, off entitlements, and actually grow/improve our country. This conversation has been focused on all the wrong things

So are you willing to pay twice as much for electricity from those wind farms? Neither am I.

But you are welcome to start anytime you desire. Build one of those industries yourself. See how fast you close down when you don't have any customers.

I bet you're a joy to have at the brainstorming table.

 

[Liquid Reigns]

Just gotta jump here with a question for you guys on BOTH sides of this wall/deporting deal..

Both parties view these people as an underclass.. You know -- the kind "that does the work Americans wont do."
Most everyone ASSUMES we have 20Mill day laborers, nursing home aides, fruit-pickin, burger flippers. But in that number (I HOPE it's in there) are the 2nd and already 3rd generation offspring. And I ASSURE YOU -- they are migrating into ALL LEVELS of employment. Including science , the law, arts, etc.. AND they are citizens.

They are assumed to be citizens.

You folks discuss this as those "the hordes" are a permanent UNDERCLASS.. They are not.. And it's the fault of ALL the politicians and media for not framing this issue correctly. The 2nd/3rd gen Hispanic scientists, techs, engineers I worked with in Silicon Valley were indistinguishable from the workforce UNTIL you attended a wedding down in the barrio and met their heritage. You guys need to get THAT picture and remove the Home Depot "day workers" out of your heads.

You are assuming all Hispanics come from an illegal background. While there may be no doubt that there may be very few that are 2nd or third generation illegals that have obtained a useful degree, its such a small minority of them that its almost irrelevant.

The government FAILED BIG TIME to get it's pants and address the border. But it's always late to put it's pants on when they invented too many things for themselves to do. And immigration is a PRIMARY CONSTITUTIONAL duty. YES -- we need to wake up to that.

No. its the administration in charge and the majority in Congress that choose to either enforce the laws or skirt them via policy change creating priorities and bureaucracy.

And I said "I HOPED" that the 11 or 16 or 20 Mill number INCLUDES the 2/3/4th generation CITIZEN offspring of these folks.. OTHERWISE ---- you're talking about at LEAST AFFECTING 30/40/50 MILLION people by culling the herd of the "illegal" ones who are parents, grandparents, great-grandparents. But there's not a single BELIEVABLE number coming out of Wash D.C. for ANYTHING. Not immigration, not employment, not budget, not SocSec Trust Fund numbers, not Global Warming numbers, not even voting "records".

You assume the offspring are citizens, unless they hold a US Passport stating they are citizens they may be nothing more than US Nationals if born here.

So I'm on board on this anti-establishment thing, but NOT on the Trump Train.. And I REQUIRE a leader who is gonna cut the SCOPE of the FEDS so they have a fucking chance of doing their PRIMARY constitutional duties.

Then you need a Congress and an administration that allocate funds for the specific projects and doesn't change them or dismiss them as low priority.

But no one is gonna GO BACK and slice out ELDERLY Mexican from America's Hispanic families. American HISPANICS WANT BORDER PROTECTION.. They don't like the "different type" of immigrant that is crashing the boarder today anymore than we do.. That's why TRUMP carried many of the border counties in Texas with MAJORITY hispanic voters while losing the state. They are WITH US on fixing the border. But they are NOT gonna say Adios to Granny and PaPa and see them "wait in line" to come back...

Not all illegals are elderly, that is a very, very small percentage at best, the overwhelming majority are between 18 and 44.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The GOP is supposed to be the job friendly party that promotes free enterprise... When it comes to illegal immigration why is nobody proposing a way to create jobs and put 11 million immigrants to work? We have a tremendous opportunity to kickstart our industries and the workforce available to do it. Why not utilize it? Why does nobody explore this avenue instead of wasting years and billions of dollars fighting to send them back and shrink our economic potential?

View attachment 67464​

They're stupid is what is wrong with them. There are 10K babyboomers entering Social Security/Medicare on a daily basis and this will continue for the next 12 years. This results in another 87 trillion in unfunded liabilities.

Back in the 50's the average family size was 4 kids, over the last several decades family sizes reduced to 2 or less kids.

IOW--There are not enough younger working people in this country to support these funds, and the Reich wing of the Republican party is too stupid enough to realize that we have to have immigration reform to keep those Social Security checks rolling in.

Here is a great article on the mentality of a Trump supporter, and why economists have stated immigration is GOOD to keep this economy going.
Column: Trump exploits rational political ignorance

Social Security isn't going to be kept afloat by Third World Immigrants making shit wages.

All we will do is buy a little time at the cost of vastly decreasing Social Capital and Cohesion.


And when the crunch comes anyways, we will be less able to with the crisis.

Why is nobody proposing a massive scale jobs initiative?? Build wind and solar farms across the US, transcontinental transportation to make shipping and commerce faster and cheaper, increase and improve our water and agriculture systems, build industry that will increase exports... There are so many things that could create jobs, raise our GDP, bring people out of the shadows, off entitlements, and actually grow/improve our country. This conversation has been focused on all the wrong things

Why is nobody proposing a massive scale jobs initiative?? Build wind and solar farms across the US,

Of course, expensive, unreliable energy is a sure way to boost our economy.

 

[Slade3200]

Think about how ridiculous your dream world is.

You want 11 million more people to be able to stay in this country legally which is an open invitation for more people to come here and break our laws. That of course would likely put Democrats in charge for generations which would insure more government dependents like those unemployed you speak of. Furthermore with their constant desire to "make those people pay their fair share" they would leave wealthy people little money to invest with, and chase many of them out of our country taking their jobs with them.

Why don't you think about this: President Trump gets rid of all these illegals for us. That opens up millions of job opportunities which in turn would create competition between employers to hire American workers. Because of that, jobs start paying more because employers would have no choice but to offer more, and eventually some of these people will find their way off of our social programs saving us billions. And who knows, we may even return to an all English speaking country again.

Yours is just as much of a dream world as mine. Fix our border and immigration system, I'm fine with that. But we aren't going to rip 11 million people away from their jobs, families and communities... It just isn't going to happen. So we can keep fighting about it or we can work on productive solutions. That's my point.

The jobs and the communities aren't theirs. They're illegal. They have no right to any of those things. Why don't you think law breakers should have things taken from then that don't belong to them? As for their families, they can go back to Mexico with them or stay here. It's up to them. It's not my problem. The "productive solution" is to deport them, no matter how much douche bags like you object.

it's a good thing that small Minded pricks like you are getting phased out of this country... Send me your address and I'll mail you the apprentice box set so you can keep your dream alive after the trump train barrels of the cliff it's headed for

We aren't going anywhere.

It appears he's trying to say that all of Trump's and Cruz's supporters are small minded pricks. In other words, the majority of Republicans are small minded pricks.

Just people like you... I wouldn't compliment yourself by thinking most republicans think like you

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Thanks for the lively discussion, I had a tough day and felt like pissing some people off... The anti-immigrant crowd is always my favorite. Thanks for putting up with some of my nonsense... But seriously, think about it... We once had Man on the moon... Now we need the same effort in a massive jobs program... think about what we could build by engaging our private sector and utilizing our unemployed and 11 million illegals as a workforce. It could be epic... I'm out.

Think about how ridiculous your dream world is.

You want 11 million more people to be able to stay in this country legally which is an open invitation for more people to come here and break our laws. That of course would likely put Democrats in charge for generations which would insure more government dependents like those unemployed you speak of. Furthermore with their constant desire to "make those people pay their fair share" they would leave wealthy people little money to invest with, and chase many of them out of our country taking their jobs with them.

Why don't you think about this: President Trump gets rid of all these illegals for us. That opens up millions of job opportunities which in turn would create competition between employers to hire American workers. Because of that, jobs start paying more because employers would have no choice but to offer more, and eventually some of these people will find their way off of our social programs saving us billions. And who knows, we may even return to an all English speaking country again.

Illegals aren't our only problem regarding employment, the H-1B program really cuts into the good jobs by depressing wages.

Clinton's NAFTA program is a disaster. Not likely Hillary will go against Bill's premier legislation.

Agreed. I've always said the problem in America are all foreigners and not just the illegal ones.

When our wages increase.........when our jobs are plentiful........when we don't have 45 million Americans on SNAP's programs and such, then we can think about letting some people in. Until that time, all foreigners should be prohibited from working or living here.

 

[Liquid Reigns]

Just gotta jump here with a question for you guys on BOTH sides of this wall/deporting deal..

Both parties view these people as an underclass.. You know -- the kind "that does the work Americans wont do."
Most everyone ASSUMES we have 20Mill day laborers, nursing home aides, fruit-pickin, burger flippers. But in that number (I HOPE it's in there) are the 2nd and already 3rd generation offspring. And I ASSURE YOU -- they are migrating into ALL LEVELS of employment. Including science , the law, arts, etc.. AND they are citizens.

You folks discuss this as those "the hordes" are a permanent UNDERCLASS.. They are not.. And it's the fault of ALL the politicians and media for not framing this issue correctly. The 2nd/3rd gen Hispanic scientists, techs, engineers I worked with in Silicon Valley were indistinguishable from the workforce UNTIL you attended a wedding down in the barrio and met their heritage. You guys need to get THAT picture and remove the Home Depot "day workers" out of your heads.

The government FAILED BIG TIME to get it's pants and address the border. But it's always late to put it's pants on when they invented too many things for themselves to do. And immigration is a PRIMARY CONSTITUTIONAL duty. YES -- we need to wake up to that.

And I said "I HOPED" that the 11 or 16 or 20 Mill number INCLUDES the 2/3/4th generation CITIZEN offspring of these folks.. OTHERWISE ---- you're talking about at LEAST AFFECTING 30/40/50 MILLION people by culling the herd of the "illegal" ones who are parents, grandparents, great-grandparents. But there's not a single BELIEVABLE number coming out of Wash D.C. for ANYTHING. Not immigration, not employment, not budget, not SocSec Trust Fund numbers, not Global Warming numbers, not even voting "records".

So I'm on board on this anti-establishment thing, but NOT on the Trump Train.. And I REQUIRE a leader who is gonna cut the SCOPE of the FEDS so they have a fucking chance of doing their PRIMARY constitutional duties.

But no one is gonna GO BACK and slice out ELDERLY Mexican from America's Hispanic families. American HISPANICS WANT BORDER PROTECTION.. They don't like the "different type" of immigrant that is crashing the boarder today anymore than we do.. That's why TRUMP carried many of the border counties in Texas with MAJORITY hispanic voters while losing the state. They are WITH US on fixing the border. But they are NOT gonna say Adios to Granny and PaPa and see them "wait in line" to come back...

Reagan granted amnesty once. If we do it again, they will know that they simply have to get here and eventually we will relent.

Even with our best efforts some will get thru. They have to understand that they will NEVER be citizens.

Mark

There were a total of 7 amnesties counting the one Reagan talked people into, with Reagans being the first.

 

[bripat9643]

The GOP is supposed to be the job friendly party that promotes free enterprise... When it comes to illegal immigration why is nobody proposing a way to create jobs and put 11 million immigrants to work? We have a tremendous opportunity to kickstart our industries and the workforce available to do it. Why not utilize it? Why does nobody explore this avenue instead of wasting years and billions of dollars fighting to send them back and shrink our economic potential?

View attachment 67464​

They're stupid is what is wrong with them. There are 10K babyboomers entering Social Security/Medicare on a daily basis and this will continue for the next 12 years. This results in another 87 trillion in unfunded liabilities.

Back in the 50's the average family size was 4 kids, over the last several decades family sizes reduced to 2 or less kids.

IOW--There are not enough younger working people in this country to support these funds, and the Reich wing of the Republican party is too stupid enough to realize that we have to have immigration reform to keep those Social Security checks rolling in.

Here is a great article on the mentality of a Trump supporter, and why economists have stated immigration is GOOD to keep this economy going.
Column: Trump exploits rational political ignorance

Social Security isn't going to be kept afloat by Third World Immigrants making shit wages.

All we will do is buy a little time at the cost of vastly decreasing Social Capital and Cohesion.


And when the crunch comes anyways, we will be less able to with the crisis.

Why is nobody proposing a massive scale jobs initiative?? Build wind and solar farms across the US, transcontinental transportation to make shipping and commerce faster and cheaper, increase and improve our water and agriculture systems, build industry that will increase exports... There are so many things that could create jobs, raise our GDP, bring people out of the shadows, off entitlements, and actually grow/improve our country. This conversation has been focused on all the wrong things

Wind and solar farms won't increase jobs. They destroy jobs. They are boondoggles that increase taxes and increase the cost of energy. Both those things destroy jobs.

What do you propose to make shipping and commerce cheaper other than more government boondoggles that never give a return on investment? If there was industry that could make a profit from exporting, it would already exist. Investors are always searching for ways to make a profit. What makes you think they haven't already investigated every conceivable scheme?

You act like making money is easy. If it was, then why aren't you rich? What is stopping you from creating all these jobs that are so easy to create?

In the meantime illegals are taking jobs from Americans and driving their wages down. It's time to send them packing.

 

[80zephyr]

The GOP is supposed to be the job friendly party that promotes free enterprise... When it comes to illegal immigration why is nobody proposing a way to create jobs and put 11 million immigrants to work? We have a tremendous opportunity to kickstart our industries and the workforce available to do it. Why not utilize it? Why does nobody explore this avenue instead of wasting years and billions of dollars fighting to send them back and shrink our economic potential?

View attachment 67464​

They're stupid is what is wrong with them. There are 10K babyboomers entering Social Security/Medicare on a daily basis and this will continue for the next 12 years. This results in another 87 trillion in unfunded liabilities.

Back in the 50's the average family size was 4 kids, over the last several decades family sizes reduced to 2 or less kids.

IOW--There are not enough younger working people in this country to support these funds, and the Reich wing of the Republican party is too stupid to realize that we have to have immigration reform to keep those Social Security checks rolling in.

Here is a great article on the mentality of a Trump supporter, and why economists have stated immigration is GOOD to keep this economy going.
Column: Trump exploits rational political ignorance

Jeez, the left just doesn't get math. If we need people to pay Social Security and keep it fluid, we need them exponentially. So the 4 we need today will get old, and they''ll need 16, and when they get old, they'll need 64. In a few generations we would have to become the most populous nation on the planet to keep up the needs of the retiree's. And then what? Someday, we will have billions of people, the nation will be to capacity, and we will STILL have to get rid of the ponzi scheme known as Social Security.

Do it NOW, while we still can.

Mark

 

[bripat9643]

Just gotta jump here with a question for you guys on BOTH sides of this wall/deporting deal..

Both parties view these people as an underclass.. You know -- the kind "that does the work Americans wont do."
Most everyone ASSUMES we have 20Mill day laborers, nursing home aides, fruit-pickin, burger flippers. But in that number (I HOPE it's in there) are the 2nd and already 3rd generation offspring. And I ASSURE YOU -- they are migrating into ALL LEVELS of employment. Including science , the law, arts, etc.. AND they are citizens.

You folks discuss this as those "the hordes" are a permanent UNDERCLASS.. They are not.. And it's the fault of ALL the politicians and media for not framing this issue correctly. The 2nd/3rd gen Hispanic scientists, techs, engineers I worked with in Silicon Valley were indistinguishable from the workforce UNTIL you attended a wedding down in the barrio and met their heritage. You guys need to get THAT picture and remove the Home Depot "day workers" out of your heads.

The government FAILED BIG TIME to get it's pants and address the border. But it's always late to put it's pants on when they invented too many things for themselves to do. And immigration is a PRIMARY CONSTITUTIONAL duty. YES -- we need to wake up to that.

And I said "I HOPED" that the 11 or 16 or 20 Mill number INCLUDES the 2/3/4th generation CITIZEN offspring of these folks.. OTHERWISE ---- you're talking about at LEAST AFFECTING 30/40/50 MILLION people by culling the herd of the "illegal" ones who are parents, grandparents, great-grandparents. But there's not a single BELIEVABLE number coming out of Wash D.C. for ANYTHING. Not immigration, not employment, not budget, not SocSec Trust Fund numbers, not Global Warming numbers, not even voting "records".

So I'm on board on this anti-establishment thing, but NOT on the Trump Train.. And I REQUIRE a leader who is gonna cut the SCOPE of the FEDS so they have a fucking chance of doing their PRIMARY constitutional duties.

But no one is gonna GO BACK and slice out ELDERLY Mexican from America's Hispanic families. American HISPANICS WANT BORDER PROTECTION.. They don't like the "different type" of immigrant that is crashing the boarder today anymore than we do.. That's why TRUMP carried many of the border counties in Texas with MAJORITY hispanic voters while losing the state. They are WITH US on fixing the border. But they are NOT gonna say Adios to Granny and PaPa and see them "wait in line" to come back...

Reagan granted amnesty once. If we do it again, they will know that they simply have to get here and eventually we will relent.

Even with our best efforts some will get thru. They have to understand that they will NEVER be citizens.

Mark

There were a total of 7 amnesties counting the one Reagan talked people into, with Reagans being the first.

Reagan didn't talk anyone into it. Kennedy did.

 

[80zephyr]

The GOP is supposed to be the job friendly party that promotes free enterprise... When it comes to illegal immigration why is nobody proposing a way to create jobs and put 11 million immigrants to work? We have a tremendous opportunity to kickstart our industries and the workforce available to do it. Why not utilize it? Why does nobody explore this avenue instead of wasting years and billions of dollars fighting to send them back and shrink our economic potential?

View attachment 67464​

They're stupid is what is wrong with them. There are 10K babyboomers entering Social Security/Medicare on a daily basis and this will continue for the next 12 years. This results in another 87 trillion in unfunded liabilities.

Back in the 50's the average family size was 4 kids, over the last several decades family sizes reduced to 2 or less kids.

IOW--There are not enough younger working people in this country to support these funds, and the Reich wing of the Republican party is too stupid enough to realize that we have to have immigration reform to keep those Social Security checks rolling in.

Here is a great article on the mentality of a Trump supporter, and why economists have stated immigration is GOOD to keep this economy going.
Column: Trump exploits rational political ignorance

Social Security isn't going to be kept afloat by Third World Immigrants making shit wages.

All we will do is buy a little time at the cost of vastly decreasing Social Capital and Cohesion.


And when the crunch comes anyways, we will be less able to with the crisis.

Why is nobody proposing a massive scale jobs initiative?? Build wind and solar farms across the US, transcontinental transportation to make shipping and commerce faster and cheaper, increase and improve our water and agriculture systems, build industry that will increase exports... There are so many things that could create jobs, raise our GDP, bring people out of the shadows, off entitlements, and actually grow/improve our country. This conversation has been focused on all the wrong things

You really need an economics class. Start with 101.

Mark

 

[excalibur]

It appears he's trying to say that all of Trump's and Cruz's supporters are small minded pricks. In other words, the majority of Republicans are small minded pricks.

Anyone who disagrees with Progressives must be marginalized by name-calling. That is how they have always rolled. But that doesn't work any longer, they have so overplayed that card.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Thanks for the lively discussion, I had a tough day and felt like pissing some people off... The anti-immigrant crowd is always my favorite. Thanks for putting up with some of my nonsense... But seriously, think about it... We once had Man on the moon... Now we need the same effort in a massive jobs program... think about what we could build by engaging our private sector and utilizing our unemployed and 11 million illegals as a workforce. It could be epic... I'm out.

Think about how ridiculous your dream world is.

You want 11 million more people to be able to stay in this country legally which is an open invitation for more people to come here and break our laws. That of course would likely put Democrats in charge for generations which would insure more government dependents like those unemployed you speak of. Furthermore with their constant desire to "make those people pay their fair share" they would leave wealthy people little money to invest with, and chase many of them out of our country taking their jobs with them.

Why don't you think about this: President Trump gets rid of all these illegals for us. That opens up millions of job opportunities which in turn would create competition between employers to hire American workers. Because of that, jobs start paying more because employers would have no choice but to offer more, and eventually some of these people will find their way off of our social programs saving us billions. And who knows, we may even return to an all English speaking country again.

Yours is just as much of a dream world as mine. Fix our border and immigration system, I'm fine with that. But we aren't going to rip 11 million people away from their jobs, families and communities... It just isn't going to happen. So we can keep fighting about it or we can work on productive solutions. That's my point.

I'll stick to keep fighting about it because it''s worth the fight. We surrendered to these people once before hoping to solve the problem, and now....just a few decades later, we have the same problem again.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. I don't know what Trump's plans are, but if it were up to me, we would have a law that states anybody living here illegally faces a minimum five years in prison, and see how fast we deport those 11 million people. They would scatter like rats. So don't tell me it can't be done--it can.

Insanity is also calling two different things the same. Your jailing idea sounds great to the tough guys but in reality will result in a complete waste of time and money, over crowded jails, mass protest, and an even larger back logged court system. Wasted energy pointed in the wrong direction.

Nope, because a strong enough deterrent works every time it's tried.

Let's say you were in Canada illegally. Then they came out with a law such as I proposed. Would you still stay in Canada until you were arrested or would you make your way back to the states?

Pretty simple calculation if you ask me. I would guarantee you that at the minimum, 90% or better would get the hell out of this country so fast it would make your head spin. And the best part? They wouldn't dare come back either.

 

[Slade3200]

The GOP is supposed to be the job friendly party that promotes free enterprise... When it comes to illegal immigration why is nobody proposing a way to create jobs and put 11 million immigrants to work? We have a tremendous opportunity to kickstart our industries and the workforce available to do it. Why not utilize it? Why does nobody explore this avenue instead of wasting years and billions of dollars fighting to send them back and shrink our economic potential?

View attachment 67464​

They're stupid is what is wrong with them. There are 10K babyboomers entering Social Security/Medicare on a daily basis and this will continue for the next 12 years. This results in another 87 trillion in unfunded liabilities.

Back in the 50's the average family size was 4 kids, over the last several decades family sizes reduced to 2 or less kids.

IOW--There are not enough younger working people in this country to support these funds, and the Reich wing of the Republican party is too stupid enough to realize that we have to have immigration reform to keep those Social Security checks rolling in.

Here is a great article on the mentality of a Trump supporter, and why economists have stated immigration is GOOD to keep this economy going.
Column: Trump exploits rational political ignorance

Social Security isn't going to be kept afloat by Third World Immigrants making shit wages.

All we will do is buy a little time at the cost of vastly decreasing Social Capital and Cohesion.


And when the crunch comes anyways, we will be less able to with the crisis.

Why is nobody proposing a massive scale jobs initiative?? Build wind and solar farms across the US, transcontinental transportation to make shipping and commerce faster and cheaper, increase and improve our water and agriculture systems, build industry that will increase exports... There are so many things that could create jobs, raise our GDP, bring people out of the shadows, off entitlements, and actually grow/improve our country. This conversation has been focused on all the wrong things

Why is nobody proposing a massive scale jobs initiative?? Build wind and solar farms across the US,

Of course, expensive, unreliable energy is a sure way to boost our economy.

It's like talking to stubborn children... So propose an idea that will boost our economy and improve our country. I'm proposing an discussion of ideas, a change in thinking. The best businesses are those that have the least amount of waste. If illegal immigrants and our unemployed are considered the "waste "then we are better off finding ways to utilize the waste to everybodies advantage rather than spending a ton of time and energy trying to throw it away

 

[80zephyr]

Thanks for the lively discussion, I had a tough day and felt like pissing some people off... The anti-immigrant crowd is always my favorite. Thanks for putting up with some of my nonsense... But seriously, think about it... We once had Man on the moon... Now we need the same effort in a massive jobs program... think about what we could build by engaging our private sector and utilizing our unemployed and 11 million illegals as a workforce. It could be epic... I'm out.

Think about how ridiculous your dream world is.

You want 11 million more people to be able to stay in this country legally which is an open invitation for more people to come here and break our laws. That of course would likely put Democrats in charge for generations which would insure more government dependents like those unemployed you speak of. Furthermore with their constant desire to "make those people pay their fair share" they would leave wealthy people little money to invest with, and chase many of them out of our country taking their jobs with them.

Why don't you think about this: President Trump gets rid of all these illegals for us. That opens up millions of job opportunities which in turn would create competition between employers to hire American workers. Because of that, jobs start paying more because employers would have no choice but to offer more, and eventually some of these people will find their way off of our social programs saving us billions. And who knows, we may even return to an all English speaking country again.

Illegals aren't our only problem regarding employment, the H-1B program really cuts into the good jobs by depressing wages.

Clinton's NAFTA program is a disaster. Not likely Hillary will go against Bill's premier legislation.

Agreed. I've always said the problem in America are all foreigners and not just the illegal ones.

When our wages increase.........when our jobs are plentiful........when we don't have 45 million Americans on SNAP's programs and such, then we can think about letting some people in. Until that time, all foreigners should be prohibited from working or living here.

I agree. I think we should cut all immigration.

Mark

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The GOP is supposed to be the job friendly party that promotes free enterprise... When it comes to illegal immigration why is nobody proposing a way to create jobs and put 11 million immigrants to work? We have a tremendous opportunity to kickstart our industries and the workforce available to do it. Why not utilize it? Why does nobody explore this avenue instead of wasting years and billions of dollars fighting to send them back and shrink our economic potential?

View attachment 67464​

They're stupid is what is wrong with them. There are 10K babyboomers entering Social Security/Medicare on a daily basis and this will continue for the next 12 years. This results in another 87 trillion in unfunded liabilities.

Back in the 50's the average family size was 4 kids, over the last several decades family sizes reduced to 2 or less kids.

IOW--There are not enough younger working people in this country to support these funds, and the Reich wing of the Republican party is too stupid enough to realize that we have to have immigration reform to keep those Social Security checks rolling in.

Here is a great article on the mentality of a Trump supporter, and why economists have stated immigration is GOOD to keep this economy going.
Column: Trump exploits rational political ignorance

Social Security isn't going to be kept afloat by Third World Immigrants making shit wages.

All we will do is buy a little time at the cost of vastly decreasing Social Capital and Cohesion.


And when the crunch comes anyways, we will be less able to with the crisis.

Why is nobody proposing a massive scale jobs initiative?? Build wind and solar farms across the US, transcontinental transportation to make shipping and commerce faster and cheaper, increase and improve our water and agriculture systems, build industry that will increase exports... There are so many things that could create jobs, raise our GDP, bring people out of the shadows, off entitlements, and actually grow/improve our country. This conversation has been focused on all the wrong things

Why is nobody proposing a massive scale jobs initiative?? Build wind and solar farms across the US,

Of course, expensive, unreliable energy is a sure way to boost our economy.

It's like talking to stubborn children... So propose an idea that will boost our economy and improve our country. I'm proposing an discussion of ideas, a change in thinking. The best businesses are those that have the least amount of waste. If illegal immigrants and our unemployed are considered the "waste "then we are better off finding ways to utilize the waste to everybodies advantage rather than spending a ton of time and energy trying to throw it away

I agree, liberals are economically illiterate children.

 

[Liquid Reigns]

Not this time BriPat pal.. The separating families deal is not a con. This atrocious crap has been going on WAAAY too long and the 2nd/3rd generation offspring are now Mayors, doctors, lawyers, and engineers.. They are NOT walking the Home Depot parking lot waiting to climb trees for you. And you are talking about sending their aging parents/grandparents packing at a time when families need to be together.

They can take their kids with them, are you trying to insinuate the family tree?

Let's look at the REAL situation..

1A) Mom/Pop and the elderly gate crashers are not a HUGE labor threat. They are ILLEGAL -- they should STAY illegal. Don't need to do ANYTHING.. Do NOT extend them benefits. Do not reward them with citizenship.

Since there are very few of those elderly like that, why not simply deport them?

1B) Anyone arriving here a mere 2 or 4 years ago or until the border is closed is FAIR GAME for deportation.

Why not make it since the last amnesty?

2) The kids and grandkids are Americans.. Like or not. Work to fix that situation for NEW gate-crashers. That was the law that ATTRACTED gramps/grammy here in the 1st place. Get on it.

At best the children born here may be US Nationals. There are very, very few illegals that are here that are grandma and grandpa.

3) Stop the flow. That's the source of labor competition for the low-paying jobs and the wage depression. Build a wall if ya want -- but you're gonna cut off the Rio Grande from the USA and there are issues there that haven't even been realized. And for crying out loud -- get rid of "sanctuary cities" and the benefits that CAUSE this invasion.

Wall, fence, barrier, better guarding, it's a ll the same thing, only demagogues exclaim "wall"

4) DO NOT elect Prez who offers blanket invitations to orphans and refugees from Central/South America to ride the Death Trains north and become day-care clients of hard - working Americans. We do not need to be the hemisphere baby sitter and foster parents.

Exactly

Plenty to do here WITHOUT all the vitriol.. And there needs to be a realization how when the govt CREATES a multi-generational problem like this -- how we shouldn't ignore it for so long and then get all huffy with a bunch of 50/60 year old family members. We should be getting huffy with the 2 braindead parties that are politicizing the issue rather than engineering a solution..

Very, very few 50-60 yo family members here illegally. Hyperbole.

 

[flacaltenn]

The GOP is supposed to be the job friendly party that promotes free enterprise... When it comes to illegal immigration why is nobody proposing a way to create jobs and put 11 million immigrants to work? We have a tremendous opportunity to kickstart our industries and the workforce available to do it. Why not utilize it? Why does nobody explore this avenue instead of wasting years and billions of dollars fighting to send them back and shrink our economic potential?

View attachment 67464​

They're stupid is what is wrong with them. There are 10K babyboomers entering Social Security/Medicare on a daily basis and this will continue for the next 12 years. This results in another 87 trillion in unfunded liabilities.

Back in the 50's the average family size was 4 kids, over the last several decades family sizes reduced to 2 or less kids.

IOW--There are not enough younger working people in this country to support these funds, and the Reich wing of the Republican party is too stupid enough to realize that we have to have immigration reform to keep those Social Security checks rolling in.

Here is a great article on the mentality of a Trump supporter, and why economists have stated immigration is GOOD to keep this economy going.
Column: Trump exploits rational political ignorance

Social Security isn't going to be kept afloat by Third World Immigrants making shit wages.

All we will do is buy a little time at the cost of vastly decreasing Social Capital and Cohesion.
And when the crunch comes anyways, we will be less able to with the crisis.

Do the math.. Even 4 million shit wage illegals paying into SS/Medicare is about $4Bill per year. SS real cash flow has already gone in the red since 2010.. That's ain't kibble. Partly the reason no one wants to acknowledge that the crisis is NOW !!!!

 

[bripat9643]

Yours is just as much of a dream world as mine. Fix our border and immigration system, I'm fine with that. But we aren't going to rip 11 million people away from their jobs, families and communities... It just isn't going to happen. So we can keep fighting about it or we can work on productive solutions. That's my point.

The jobs and the communities aren't theirs. They're illegal. They have no right to any of those things. Why don't you think law breakers should have things taken from then that don't belong to them? As for their families, they can go back to Mexico with them or stay here. It's up to them. It's not my problem. The "productive solution" is to deport them, no matter how much douche bags like you object.

it's a good thing that small Minded pricks like you are getting phased out of this country... Send me your address and I'll mail you the apprentice box set so you can keep your dream alive after the trump train barrels of the cliff it's headed for

We aren't going anywhere.

It appears he's trying to say that all of Trump's and Cruz's supporters are small minded pricks. In other words, the majority of Republicans are small minded pricks.

Just people like you... I wouldn't compliment yourself by thinking most republicans think like you

Then why are they voting for Trump and Cruz, both of whom propose to deport all illegals?

Face it, you're the dinosaur. The American people have had their fill of illegal immigration. They want sharp cuts in legal immigration as well. This country doesn't exist for the benefit of Mexicans.