Impeachment Does Not Require a Crime

[TheProgressivePatriot]

The title speaks for itself. Abuse of power is an impeachable offense. trumps impeachment is constitutionally correct.

Presidential Impeachment: The Legal Standard and Procedure - FindLaw

All that is true. The guidelines for impeachment do not require a crime. There is no need for evidence, an investigation or witnesses to impeach a president. The impeachment and ensuing trial are 100% political with no legal ramifications other than removal from office. But guess what, the Republicans do not have to offer any defense either. They can simply vote for acquittal and it is all over.

But they are offering a defense. Clearly they saw the need to push back at the damaging evidence presented by the house.

They presented a defense for political reasons. It is not meant or expected to influence any of the jurors/senators. The whole process is political.

Constitutional law is not political.

 

[IM2]

The title speaks for itself. Abuse of power is an impeachable offense. trumps impeachment is constitutionally correct.

Presidential Impeachment: The Legal Standard and Procedure - FindLaw

All that is true. The guidelines for impeachment do not require a crime. There is no need for evidence, an investigation or witnesses to impeach a president. The impeachment and ensuing trial are 100% political with no legal ramifications other than removal from office. But guess what, the Republicans do not have to offer any defense either. They can simply vote for acquittal and it is all over.

Wrong. There is a need for evidence and evidence has been shown, there have been investigations and witnesses. The reality here is the republicans do not want to remove a criminal president because he is a republican.

The reality is that the word criminal at this point is purely a democratic opinion.

Jo

No, it's a legal fact.

 

[IM2]

The title speaks for itself. Abuse of power is an impeachable offense. trumps impeachment is constitutionally correct.

Presidential Impeachment: The Legal Standard and Procedure - FindLaw

All that is true. The guidelines for impeachment do not require a crime. There is no need for evidence, an investigation or witnesses to impeach a president. The impeachment and ensuing trial are 100% political with no legal ramifications other than removal from office. But guess what, the Republicans do not have to offer any defense either. They can simply vote for acquittal and it is all over.

Wrong. There is a need for evidence and evidence has been shown, there have been investigations and witnesses. The reality here is the republicans do not want to remove a criminal president because he is a republican.

There is no need for a crime (as you already agreed), there is no need for any evidence, and there is no need for any defense.

The democrats could have called for the impeachment vote without ever presenting any evidence. They presented evidence for political purposes. They are trying to damage the president politically while giving themselves political cover.

The Republicans could have acquitted the president without ever presenting a defense. They presented the defense to attack the Dems politically, and provide political cover for themselves.

Everybody knew the outcome of the impeachment and trial before it all began. The only question was which side would win politically.

The violation of his office must be proven and it has been. The president has done this to himself. The democrats did not make him withhold that money, nor did they force him to make that request. The republicans cannot acquit trump without a defense and in reality they should convict. But the constitution or the rule of law doesn't matter to republicans and this impeachment is proof.

 

[IM2]

I'm actually with you....Unfortunately no crime is required for either Impeachment or removal.

Sorry, I showed you where you are wrong.

The Founding Fathers did not intend, did not create Impeachment to be a partisan tool for would-be dictators to strip the people of their Democratically-elected leader.

if you think that they did even for a second, you know nothing about out nation, how it was created, by whom it was created, etc... Instead, you allowed Democratic talking points and Common Core Indoctrination to replace actual knowledge / education.

.

None of what you have said applies to this impeachment. The majority of the people did not vote for trump. The electoral college using states that had over 200,000 illegally purged from voting is what gave trump the office. So it's time to quit repeating trumps lies and understand that he has been impeached because he violated his oath, and subverted the constitution.

Actually no....he has been impeached ONLY BECAUSE they hate him....not because he's guilty of anything.

This genie is officially out of the bottle and it's not going away. Very bad move
On the Dems part. Like Reid's Senate rules change.

Jo

He is guilty of a lot of things. He is immune from criminal indictment by DOJ policy. You don't seem to understand this.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

I'm actually with you....Unfortunately no crime is required for either Impeachment or removal.

Sorry, I showed you where you are wrong.

The Founding Fathers did not intend, did not create Impeachment to be a partisan tool for would-be dictators to strip the people of their Democratically-elected leader.

if you think that they did even for a second, you know nothing about out nation, how it was created, by whom it was created, etc... Instead, you allowed Democratic talking points and Common Core Indoctrination to replace actual knowledge / education.

.

No one thinks that the founders intended it to be a partisan tool and that is not the way it is being used. I don't think you really believe that . You're just blowing smoke.

 

[easyt65]

He is guilty of a lot of things.

None of which, after 4 years, Democrats can prove by producing any evidence.

Schiff falsely claimed for 2.5 years to have direct evidence of crimes. He lied.

Schiff attempted to present his personally authored fictional transcript as evidence.

Schiff and Nadler LIED during their presentation of the Articles of Impeachment by declaring President Trump had placed his personal concerns over our national security.
- He and Nadler completely omitted their own House 'witness': Dr. Hill and Ambassador Yovanovitch testified that eliminating Ukraine corruption was FOREIGN POLICY fro a long time.

"B...b...but he's guilty".....

No crime. No Evidence. No witnesses. The witnesses they do have testified 'no crime' / 'no Impeachable offense', leaving Schiff and Nadler to try to manufacture evidence and demand the US AG break the law, Censuring him when he refused to.

Just admit it....all you and the Democrats have is 'He needs to be Impeached because we hate him'.

 

[easyt65]

[QUOTE="easyt65, post: 23942932, member: 55400
No one thinks that founder intended it to be a partisan tool and that is not the way it is being used.

BULLSHIT! The DEMOCRATS have come out and admitted this Impeachment is POLITICAL. That is NOT what the Founding Fathers designed Impeachment to be.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

The title speaks for itself. Abuse of power is an impeachable offense. trumps impeachment is constitutionally correct.

Presidential Impeachment: The Legal Standard and Procedure - FindLaw

All that is true. The guidelines for impeachment do not require a crime. There is no need for evidence, an investigation or witnesses to impeach a president. The impeachment and ensuing trial are 100% political with no legal ramifications other than removal from office. But guess what, the Republicans do not have to offer any defense either. They can simply vote for acquittal and it is all over.

Wrong. There is a need for evidence and evidence has been shown, there have been investigations and witnesses. The reality here is the republicans do not want to remove a criminal president because he is a republican.

There is no need for a crime (as you already agreed), there is no need for any evidence, and there is no need for any defense.

The democrats could have called for the impeachment vote without ever presenting any evidence. They presented evidence for political purposes. They are trying to damage the president politically while giving themselves political cover.

The Republicans could have acquitted the president without ever presenting a defense. They presented the defense to attack the Dems politically, and provide political cover for themselves.

Everybody knew the outcome of the impeachment and trial before it all began. The only question was which side would win politically.

The violation of his office must be proven and it has been. The president has done this to himself. The democrats did not make him withhold that money, nor did they force him to make that request. The republicans cannot acquit trump without a defense and in reality they should convict. But the constitution or the rule of law doesn't matter to republicans and this impeachment is proof.

Just when I think you understand, you fuck up.

Once again, with emphasis- THE RULE OF LAW IS IMMATERIAL REGARDING IMPEACHMENT. It is 100% ruled by politics.

Clinton was clearly guilty of lying to a grand jury, was impeached but not removed. Even though he had his law license suspended after the whole impeachment process was done for lying per the rule of law. If the rule of law were the standard for impeachment AND REMOVAL, Clinton would have been removed.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

He is guilty of a lot of things.

None of which, after 4 years, Democrats can prove by producing any evidence.

Schiff falsely claimed for 2.5 years to have direct evidence of crimes. He lied.

Schiff attempted to present his personally authored fictional transcript as evidence.

Schiff and Nadler LIED during their presentation of the Articles of Impeachment by declaring President Trump had placed his personal concerns over our national security.
- He and Nadler completely omitted their own House 'witness': Dr. Hill and Ambassador Yovanovitch testified that eliminating Ukraine corruption was FOREIGN POLICY fro a long time.

"B...b...but he's guilty".....

No crime. No Evidence. No witnesses. The witnesses they do have testified 'no crime' / 'no Impeachable offense', leaving Schiff and Nadler to try to manufacture evidence and demand the US AG break the law, Censuring him when he refused to.

Just admit it....all you and the Democrats have is 'He needs to be Impeached because we hate him'.



View attachment 302819

Trump confessed -on live TV. Mick Mulvaney corroborated it- on live TV "We do this all the time, get over it"

 

[easyt65]

Trump confessed -on live TV. Mick Mulvaney corroborated it- on live TV "We do this all the time, get over it"

Please provide the link to the videotaped confession.......like Joe's:





Mulvaney testified that Presidents, as part of foreign policy, withhold / delay aid / money all the time, something idiots like Schiff, and apparently you, are unaware of.

June 2018: the administration temporarily paused $105 million in aid to Lebanon.

Sept 2018: President Trump cancelled $300 million in military aid to Pakistan because it was not meeting its counter terrorism obligations

June 2019: President Trump cut or paused over $550 million in foreign aid to El Salvador, Honduras, and Guatemala because those countries were not barely sharing the burdens of preventing mass migration to the United States

September 2019: The administration announced that it was withholding over $100 million in aid to Afghanistan over concerns about government corruption

The Democrats did not scream 'Abuse of Power' for any one of these. So why Ukraine?
* SEE THE VIDEO ABOVE!

WH COUNSEL SEKULOW DESTROYED SCHIFF AND THE DEMOCRATS LIES / CLAIMS OF ABUE OF POWER BY READING THE TRANSCRIPTS OF DR. HILL AND AMBASSADOR YOVANOVITCH IN WHICH THEY BOTH STATED EVERYONE WAS WORRIED ABOUT UKRAINE CORRUPTION AND ELIMINATING UKRAINE CORRUPTION WAS TRUMP FOREIGN POLICY!
- So much for their BS about 'putting his personal welfare above national security!

Educate yourself, and not by listening to Democrat Talking Points / Schiff LIES!


Trump Defense Team Opening Argument Transcript: Jan 25 Impeachment Trial Statements from Cipollone, Philbin, Sekulow, Purpura - Rev

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

The title speaks for itself. Abuse of power is an impeachable offense. trumps impeachment is constitutionally correct.

Presidential Impeachment: The Legal Standard and Procedure - FindLaw

All that is true. The guidelines for impeachment do not require a crime. There is no need for evidence, an investigation or witnesses to impeach a president. The impeachment and ensuing trial are 100% political with no legal ramifications other than removal from office. But guess what, the Republicans do not have to offer any defense either. They can simply vote for acquittal and it is all over.

Wrong. There is a need for evidence and evidence has been shown, there have been investigations and witnesses. The reality here is the republicans do not want to remove a criminal president because he is a republican.

There is no need for a crime (as you already agreed), there is no need for any evidence, and there is no need for any defense.

The democrats could have called for the impeachment vote without ever presenting any evidence. They presented evidence for political purposes. They are trying to damage the president politically while giving themselves political cover.

The Republicans could have acquitted the president without ever presenting a defense. They presented the defense to attack the Dems politically, and provide political cover for themselves.

Everybody knew the outcome of the impeachment and trial before it all began. The only question was which side would win politically.

The violation of his office must be proven and it has been. The president has done this to himself. The democrats did not make him withhold that money, nor did they force him to make that request. The republicans cannot acquit trump without a defense and in reality they should convict. But the constitution or the rule of law doesn't matter to republicans and this impeachment is proof.

Just when I think you understand, you fuck up.

Once again, with emphasis- THE RULE OF LAW IS IMMATERIAL REGARDING IMPEACHMENT. It is 100% ruled by politics.

Clinton was clearly guilty of lying to a grand jury, was impeached but not removed. Even though he had his law license suspended after the whole impeachment process was done for lying per the rule of law. If the rule of law were the standard for impeachment AND REMOVAL, Clinton would have been removed.

You are terribly confused about the meaning of the rule of law

rule of law

DEFINITION

1. the restriction of the arbitrary exercise of power by subordinating it to well-defined and established laws.
   "when military dictators fall, the democrats who follow them must try to restore the rule of law"

It means that no one is above the law in any legal matters. Impeachment is a legal process under constitutional law . You can call it partisan and political- there is that element. But it is still a legal process subject to the rule of law

In addition, the presence of a statutory crime -like lying under oath-in and of itself, does not require impeachment , nor does that absence of a crime preclude impeachment

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The title speaks for itself. Abuse of power is an impeachable offense. trumps impeachment is constitutionally correct.

Presidential Impeachment: The Legal Standard and Procedure - FindLaw

Then, you will have no problem with impeachment proceedings against the next Democrat to hold the office starting within hours of his inauguration?

Since the Republican Senate will acquit Trump, the next president will be immune from impeachment for abuse of power because the Senate said abuse power is not impeachable. Nor will the next president be held accountable as he can give the middle finger to Congressional subpoenas. This is the new reality you all have created.

True.

At least as far as the president of the United States is concerned, Article II, Section 4 of the Constitution is null and void.

For a third time Senate Republicans will fail to obey the Framers’ intent with regard to impeachment, reaffirming a dangerous precedent, and codifying the Imperial Presidency.

The Republic is headed the way of the Roman Republic when the Senate and the people really just didn't care anymore. The impeachment article and Congressional oversight is headed for the trash heap.

At the very least future presidents will know that they can abuse executive power with impunity.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Trump confessed -on live TV. Mick Mulvaney corroborated it- on live TV "We do this all the time, get over it"

Please provide the link to the videotaped confession.......like Joe's:





Mulvaney testified that Presidents, as part of foreign policy, withhold / delay aid / money all the time, something idiots like Schiff, and apparently you, are unaware of.

June 2018: the administration temporarily paused $105 million in aid to Lebanon.

Sept 2018: President Trump cancelled $300 million in military aid to Pakistan because it was not meeting its counter terrorism obligations

June 2019: President Trump cut or paused over $550 million in foreign aid to El Salvador, Honduras, and Guatemala because those countries were not barely sharing the burdens of preventing mass migration to the United States

September 2019: The administration announced that it was withholding over $100 million in aid to Afghanistan over concerns about government corruption

The Democrats did not scream 'Abuse of Power' for any one of these. So why Ukraine?
* SEE THE VIDEO ABOVE!

WH COUNSEL SEKULOW DESTROYED SCHIFF AND THE DEMOCRATS LIES / CLAIMS OF ABUE OF POWER BY READING THE TRANSCRIPTS OF DR. HILL AND AMBASSADOR YOVANOVITCH IN WHICH THEY BOTH STATED EVERYONE WAS WORRIED ABOUT UKRAINE CORRUPTION AND ELIMINATING UKRAINE CORRUPTION WAS TRUMP FOREIGN POLICY!
- So much for their BS about 'putting his personal welfare above national security!

Educate yourself, and not by listening to Democrat Talking Points / Schiff LIES!


Trump Defense Team Opening Argument Transcript: Jan 25 Impeachment Trial Statements from Cipollone, Philbin, Sekulow, Purpura - Rev

Sure enough Boss

video trump admits asking ukraine - Bing
I'll get you the one of Mulvaney when I don't have anything better to do. You people can try all you want to make it about Biden. It does not change a fucking thing as far as what Trump has done

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

Why is it okay for Joe "the groper" Biden to quid pro quo Ukraine on holding 1 billion dollars of aid unless Ukraine "fires" a prosecutor who is investigating Joe Biden's son, and when it is being looked into, by President Trump, he Don is accused of the crime? Because the power grab of the Demoncraps is so outrageous that they "Demoncraps" know that their only hope to win 2020 is to keep Joe from going to jail, just like they did with Hitlery. Such stupid people are the voters of these criminals, who are allowed to get away with their crimes, but would shoot a voter in the back, if it could keep them out of trouble.

 

[IM2]

Why is it okay for Joe "the groper" Biden to quid pro quo Ukraine on holding 1 billion dollars of aid unless Ukraine "fires" a prosecutor who is investigating Joe Biden's son, and when it is being looked into, by President Trump, he Don is accused of the crime? Because the power grab of the Demoncraps is so outrageous that they "Demoncraps" know that their only hope to win 2020 is to keep Joe from going to jail, just like they did with Hitlery. Such stupid people are the voters of these criminals, who are allowed to get away with their crimes, but would shoot a voter in the back, if it could keep them out of trouble.

Since that's not what happened try reposting this.

 

[justoffal]

I believe they are abusing the process and setting a new standard that will bite them in the ass.... I wish the Constitution said
ONLY for this or that reason....but it doesn't. IMO.....it should.

In YOUR OPINION it doesn't. I read you exactly what the Constitution says and the Constitutional Expert's remarks.

Again, if you think the Founding Fathers created Impeachment to be a tool for partisan would-be-rulers to void / strip THE PEOPLE of the Constitutional right to pick their leaders / of their democratically elected choice for President you are a Liberal / Democrat or a brainwashed snowflake whose education is limited to Common Core.

The whole entire premise of the Constitution is based / founded on the principle of 'WE THE PEOPLE'. Creating a partisan tool that allows partisan, power-hungry leaders to snatch power form the people and dictate to them who thy can and can not have as their leaders is everything the Constitution stands for.

It's just not in there and was never meant to be that way...no matter what your OPINION may be.

I'm sure you're r right about the FF intentions but I submit to you they never saw the likes of Schiff and Pelosi.... The wording seems clear enough to me.....I'm not the one you have to convince dude .... I'm simply telling you that the words need a little more definition or you'll get what you're getting now....an impeachment just because. There's nothing in there to prohibit what they're trying to do. Hopefully Roberts will see it the way you see it but I don't totally trust the guy. Also
You obviously haven't read my mbtu or you would know that I am no liberal. I saw this coming....and I knew this issue would be raised.

Jo

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

Why is it okay for Joe "the groper" Biden to quid pro quo Ukraine on holding 1 billion dollars of aid unless Ukraine "fires" a prosecutor who is investigating Joe Biden's son, and when it is being looked into, by President Trump, he Don is accused of the crime? Because the power grab of the Demoncraps is so outrageous that they "Demoncraps" know that their only hope to win 2020 is to keep Joe from going to jail, just like they did with Hitlery. Such stupid people are the voters of these criminals, who are allowed to get away with their crimes, but would shoot a voter in the back, if it could keep them out of trouble.

Since that's not what happened try reposting this.

I really am getting tired of your stupidity....

 

[easyt65]

I'm sure you're r right about the FF intentions but I submit to you they never saw the likes of Schiff and Pelosi....

They are the ones they wrote it for. They are the Founding Father's worst nightmares....the would-be-rulers who seek to strip control, power, rights from the people's hands

 

[justoffal]

Why is it okay for Joe "the groper" Biden to quid pro quo Ukraine on holding 1 billion dollars of aid unless Ukraine "fires" a prosecutor who is investigating Joe Biden's son, and when it is being looked into, by President Trump, he Don is accused of the crime? Because the power grab of the Demoncraps is so outrageous that they "Demoncraps" know that their only hope to win 2020 is to keep Joe from going to jail, just like they did with Hitlery. Such stupid people are the voters of these criminals, who are allowed to get away with their crimes, but would shoot a voter in the back, if it could keep them out of trouble.

Simple answer: 232-197....
And that's all of it.

Jo

 

[BluesLegend]

Impeachment Does Not Require a Crime

Countless legal scholars and legal experts say you are wrong.