In a world without guns...the strong and the many can brutally beat the weak and outnumbered...

[Rotagilla]

Canada's homicide rate in 2010 was 1.62 per 100,000. Idaho's homicide rate in 2010 was 1.4. Neighboring Alberta's homicide rate in 2010 was 2.07.

We were talking about a correlation between levels of gun ownership and homicide.

That's one year, which was the third lowest in over 40 years. The 15 year average in Idaho is ~2.4/100k v ~1.7/100k in Canada.

Idaho Crime Rates 1960 - 2012

The reason why I use 15 years is because that's the longest I could find for Canada.

Firearm rights have been expanding over time. The rates from 15 years ago are pretty meaningless. The deterrence effect is diminished when we go back so far. As more people become gun owners "politeness" increases. The last 5 years in Idaho have had lower rates than most all years prior, plus we're dealing with a small population base so year by year spikes of a few additional murders are going to show significant change in the state-wide statistics.

That's why statisticians don't use a single year.

Gun ownership has always been easier in Idaho than it has been in Canada. And the murder rate has almost always been significantly higher.

More Canadian data for 2010 broken down by province.

Nova Scotia = 2.22
Ontario= 1.43
Manitoba = 3.64
Saskatchewan = 3.26
British Columbia = 1.83
Yukon = 2.89
NWT = 2.28
Nunavit = 18.28 (not a typo)

Idaho, again, was 1.4.

Again, that's one single year. Over time, the murder rate has been higher in white, gun-toting Idaho than in Canada.

Link?

 

[Rikurzhen]

Canada's homicide rate in 2010 was 1.62 per 100,000. Idaho's homicide rate in 2010 was 1.4. Neighboring Alberta's homicide rate in 2010 was 2.07.

We were talking about a correlation between levels of gun ownership and homicide.

That's one year, which was the third lowest in over 40 years. The 15 year average in Idaho is ~2.4/100k v ~1.7/100k in Canada.

Idaho Crime Rates 1960 - 2012

The reason why I use 15 years is because that's the longest I could find for Canada.

Firearm rights have been expanding over time. The rates from 15 years ago are pretty meaningless. The deterrence effect is diminished when we go back so far. As more people become gun owners "politeness" increases. The last 5 years in Idaho have had lower rates than most all years prior, plus we're dealing with a small population base so year by year spikes of a few additional murders are going to show significant change in the state-wide statistics.

That's why statisticians don't use a single year.

Gun ownership has always been easier in Idaho than it has been in Canada. And the murder rate has almost always been significantly higher.

More Canadian data for 2010 broken down by province.

Nova Scotia = 2.22
Ontario= 1.43
Manitoba = 3.64
Saskatchewan = 3.26
British Columbia = 1.83
Yukon = 2.89
NWT = 2.28
Nunavit = 18.28 (not a typo)

Idaho, again, was 1.4.

Again, that's one single year. Over time, the murder rate has been higher in white, gun-toting Idaho than in Canada.

Why is Idaho so special?

Here are the homicide rates in New Hampshire, a state with a 1.5% black population and so this puts us into the homicide rate territory of Germany and France:

1990 = 1.9
1991 = 3.6
1992 = 1.6
1883 = 2.0
1994 = 1.4
1995 = 1.8
1996 = 1.7
1997 = 1.4
1998 = 1.5
1999 = 1.5
2000 = 1.8
2001 = 1.3
2002 = 0.9
2003 = 1.3
2004 = 1.3
2005 = 1.5
2006 = 1.0
2007 = 1.1
2008 = 1.1
2009 = 0.8
2010 = 1.0
2011 = 1.2
2012 = 1.1

More Canadian data for 2010 broken down by province.

Nova Scotia = 2.22
Ontario= 1.43
Manitoba = 3.64
Saskatchewan = 3.26
British Columbia = 1.83
Yukon = 2.89
NWT = 2.28
Nunavit = 18.28 (not a typo)

 

[zeke]

Really, Bill - your ability to ignore facts and figures at times reaches proportions difficult to comprehend.

As does yours...1.4 million vs. 11-12,000 which number is larger....?

The question you should be asking billc is which number is ACCURATE. When I first started reading your posts, the number of DGU was something like 2.3 million. So you "adjusted" down to 1,4 million. 3835 DGU's a day is what you are claiming. Bullshit billc bullshit. Prove it. You can't, I've asked many time. You come up with one, or two maybe three. Far cry from three thousand eight hundred and thirty five DGU's per day.

 

[Rotagilla]

Really, Bill - your ability to ignore facts and figures at times reaches proportions difficult to comprehend.

As does yours...1.4 million vs. 11-12,000 which number is larger....?

The question you should be asking billc is which number is ACCURATE. When I first started reading your posts, the number of DGU was something like 2.3 million. So you "adjusted" down to 1,4 million. 3835 DGU's a day is what you are claiming. Bullshit billc bullshit. Prove it. You can't, I've asked many time. You come up with one, or two maybe three. Far cry from three thousand eight hundred and thirty five DGU's per day.

LMAO..so if he doesn't list each and every single incident of DGU that occur each and every day, it isn't valid?

you're funny!

 

[Brain357]

Really, Bill - your ability to ignore facts and figures at times reaches proportions difficult to comprehend.

As does yours...1.4 million vs. 11-12,000 which number is larger....?

The question you should be asking billc is which number is ACCURATE. When I first started reading your posts, the number of DGU was something like 2.3 million. So you "adjusted" down to 1,4 million. 3835 DGU's a day is what you are claiming. Bullshit billc bullshit. Prove it. You can't, I've asked many time. You come up with one, or two maybe three. Far cry from three thousand eight hundred and thirty five DGU's per day.

LMAO..so if he doesn't list each and every single incident of DGU that occur each and every day, it isn't valid?

you're funny!

There also is no body count to support the numbers.

 

[Rotagilla]

Really, Bill - your ability to ignore facts and figures at times reaches proportions difficult to comprehend.

As does yours...1.4 million vs. 11-12,000 which number is larger....?

The question you should be asking billc is which number is ACCURATE. When I first started reading your posts, the number of DGU was something like 2.3 million. So you "adjusted" down to 1,4 million. 3835 DGU's a day is what you are claiming. Bullshit billc bullshit. Prove it. You can't, I've asked many time. You come up with one, or two maybe three. Far cry from three thousand eight hundred and thirty five DGU's per day.

LMAO..so if he doesn't list each and every single incident of DGU that occur each and every day, it isn't valid?

you're funny!

There also is no body count to support the numbers.

So if no one is killed, the incident doesn't count?

 

[Toro]

That's one year, which was the third lowest in over 40 years. The 15 year average in Idaho is ~2.4/100k v ~1.7/100k in Canada.

Idaho Crime Rates 1960 - 2012

The reason why I use 15 years is because that's the longest I could find for Canada.

Firearm rights have been expanding over time. The rates from 15 years ago are pretty meaningless. The deterrence effect is diminished when we go back so far. As more people become gun owners "politeness" increases. The last 5 years in Idaho have had lower rates than most all years prior, plus we're dealing with a small population base so year by year spikes of a few additional murders are going to show significant change in the state-wide statistics.

That's why statisticians don't use a single year.

Gun ownership has always been easier in Idaho than it has been in Canada. And the murder rate has almost always been significantly higher.

More Canadian data for 2010 broken down by province.

Nova Scotia = 2.22
Ontario= 1.43
Manitoba = 3.64
Saskatchewan = 3.26
British Columbia = 1.83
Yukon = 2.89
NWT = 2.28
Nunavit = 18.28 (not a typo)

Idaho, again, was 1.4.

Again, that's one single year. Over time, the murder rate has been higher in white, gun-toting Idaho than in Canada.

Why is Idaho so special?

Here are the homicide rates in New Hampshire, a state with a 1.5% black population and so this puts us into the homicide rate territory of Germany and France:

1990 = 1.9
1991 = 3.6
1992 = 1.6
1883 = 2.0
1994 = 1.4
1995 = 1.8
1996 = 1.7
1997 = 1.4
1998 = 1.5
1999 = 1.5
2000 = 1.8
2001 = 1.3
2002 = 0.9
2003 = 1.3
2004 = 1.3
2005 = 1.5
2006 = 1.0
2007 = 1.1
2008 = 1.1
2009 = 0.8
2010 = 1.0
2011 = 1.2
2012 = 1.1

More Canadian data for 2010 broken down by province.

Nova Scotia = 2.22
Ontario= 1.43
Manitoba = 3.64
Saskatchewan = 3.26
British Columbia = 1.83
Yukon = 2.89
NWT = 2.28
Nunavit = 18.28 (not a typo)

It's not "more" Canadian data. It's the "same" Canadian data you post over and over again. Cherry-picking one year out of 40 doesn't support your argument. It's like your team going 3-37 over the past 40 games against the same team, and picking out one game you won and claiming your team is better than the other team despite losing 37 of the 39 other games.

The reason why I picked Idaho is because it is 93% white, small, and has lots of guns. Your post about NH is fair. However, it doesn't change the fact that the rate of murder in white Idaho where there are lots of guns is greater than Canada's. The murder rate for white America is still ~2x greater than all of Canada according to your post here.

On the prairies and in the territories, the murder rate is high because of the high Native population of ~10%. Nunavut, for example, has 30,000 people, 85% which are Native. That approximates with the murder rate in your graphic of 14/100k in the US.

 

[skookerasbil]

Guns per capita & homicides per capita:

USA : 90 guns per 100 people
Holland: 3.9

USA 4.7
Holland: 0.9

And another myth bites the dust.....

meh

research has proven that European countries with gun bans have murder rates three times as high countries without gun bans.

Anyway.....these gun grabber threads done matter anymore. Everybody wants guns in 2014. Only the fringe k00ks are still pushing this gun grabbing shit.

 

[Brain357]

Really, Bill - your ability to ignore facts and figures at times reaches proportions difficult to comprehend.

As does yours...1.4 million vs. 11-12,000 which number is larger....?

The question you should be asking billc is which number is ACCURATE. When I first started reading your posts, the number of DGU was something like 2.3 million. So you "adjusted" down to 1,4 million. 3835 DGU's a day is what you are claiming. Bullshit billc bullshit. Prove it. You can't, I've asked many time. You come up with one, or two maybe three. Far cry from three thousand eight hundred and thirty five DGU's per day.

LMAO..so if he doesn't list each and every single incident of DGU that occur each and every day, it isn't valid?

you're funny!

There also is no body count to support the numbers.

So if no one is killed, the incident doesn't count?

Well if they aren't in the news and nobody is actually shooting any killing anyone then any intelligent person would know they aren't happening 2.5 million times a year. The surveys all guess from what 400k to 3 million? So like 400k plus or minus 2.6million? They are obviously very inaccurate. If these surveys were accurate they would all arrive at around the same number.

 

[Brain357]

Guns per capita & homicides per capita:

USA : 90 guns per 100 people
Holland: 3.9

USA 4.7
Holland: 0.9

And another myth bites the dust.....

meh

research has proven that European countries with gun bans have murder rates three times as high countries without gun bans.

Anyway.....these gun grabber threads done matter anymore. Everybody wants guns in 2014. Only the fringe k00ks are still pushing this gun grabbing shit.

There are lots of countries with banned guns that have very low homicide rates. Please share your research. Is it the one that considers Russia in Europe? haha

 

[Truman123]

It's sad that humans have to act in a way that we must defend ourselves..

Humans have always acted that way and will always act that way

Sure. With that attitude.

Is it wrong?

People have been murdering other people for as long as we have existed.

I see nothing that will change that in our future

It can be overcome, if people can let go of the ego.

 

[Rotagilla]

As does yours...1.4 million vs. 11-12,000 which number is larger....?

The question you should be asking billc is which number is ACCURATE. When I first started reading your posts, the number of DGU was something like 2.3 million. So you "adjusted" down to 1,4 million. 3835 DGU's a day is what you are claiming. Bullshit billc bullshit. Prove it. You can't, I've asked many time. You come up with one, or two maybe three. Far cry from three thousand eight hundred and thirty five DGU's per day.

LMAO..so if he doesn't list each and every single incident of DGU that occur each and every day, it isn't valid?

you're funny!

There also is no body count to support the numbers.

So if no one is killed, the incident doesn't count?

Well if they aren't in the news and nobody is actually shooting any killing anyone then any intelligent person would know they aren't happening 2.5 million times a year. The surveys all guess from what 400k to 3 million? So like 400k plus or minus 2.6million? They are obviously very inaccurate. If these surveys were accurate they would all arrive at around the same number.

ok..you're right..no one protects themselves with guns...all numbers are lies...everyone else is wrong. whatever....

 

[Brain357]

The question you should be asking billc is which number is ACCURATE. When I first started reading your posts, the number of DGU was something like 2.3 million. So you "adjusted" down to 1,4 million. 3835 DGU's a day is what you are claiming. Bullshit billc bullshit. Prove it. You can't, I've asked many time. You come up with one, or two maybe three. Far cry from three thousand eight hundred and thirty five DGU's per day.

LMAO..so if he doesn't list each and every single incident of DGU that occur each and every day, it isn't valid?

you're funny!

There also is no body count to support the numbers.

So if no one is killed, the incident doesn't count?

Well if they aren't in the news and nobody is actually shooting any killing anyone then any intelligent person would know they aren't happening 2.5 million times a year. The surveys all guess from what 400k to 3 million? So like 400k plus or minus 2.6million? They are obviously very inaccurate. If these surveys were accurate they would all arrive at around the same number.

ok..you're right..no one protects themselves with guns...all numbers are lies...everyone else is wrong. whatever....

That's not what I'm saying. It certainly does happen. But 2.5 million times a year it does not. 1.4 million it does not. Probably under 100k.

 

[Rotagilla]

It's sad that humans have to act in a way that we must defend ourselves..

Humans have always acted that way and will always act that way

Sure. With that attitude.

Is it wrong?

People have been murdering other people for as long as we have existed.

I see nothing that will change that in our future

It can be overcome, if people can let go of the ego.

That's hilarious!
Did your sociology professor tell you that?

When do you believe this magical day of spontaneous harmony will suddenly manifest?

 

[Rotagilla]

LMAO..so if he doesn't list each and every single incident of DGU that occur each and every day, it isn't valid?

you're funny!

There also is no body count to support the numbers.

So if no one is killed, the incident doesn't count?

Well if they aren't in the news and nobody is actually shooting any killing anyone then any intelligent person would know they aren't happening 2.5 million times a year. The surveys all guess from what 400k to 3 million? So like 400k plus or minus 2.6million? They are obviously very inaccurate. If these surveys were accurate they would all arrive at around the same number.

ok..you're right..no one protects themselves with guns...all numbers are lies...everyone else is wrong. whatever....

That's not what I'm saying. It certainly does happen. But 2.5 million times a year it does not. 1.4 million it does not. Probably under 100k.

but you can't prove it either...what a waste of time.

I hope you never find yourself in a situation where you need to protect yourself or a loved one...but if you ever do, I GUARANTEE you won't be worried about EXACTLY how many times a day people protect themselves from criminals with guns or quibbling over the numbers on a message board...

 

[Truman123]

It's sad that humans have to act in a way that we must defend ourselves..

Humans have always acted that way and will always act that way

Sure. With that attitude.

Is it wrong?

People have been murdering other people for as long as we have existed.

I see nothing that will change that in our future

It can be overcome, if people can let go of the ego.

That's hilarious!
Did your sociology professor tell you that?

When do you believe this magical day of spontaneous harmony will suddenly manifest?

No. I never had one.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Guns per capita & homicides per capita:

USA : 90 guns per 100 people
Holland: 3.9

USA 4.7
Holland: 0.9

And another myth bites the dust.....

meh

research has proven that European countries with gun bans have murder rates three times as high countries without gun bans.

Anyway.....these gun grabber threads done matter anymore. Everybody wants guns in 2014. Only the fringe k00ks are still pushing this gun grabbing shit.

There are lots of countries with banned guns that have very low homicide rates. Please share your research. Is it the one that considers Russia in Europe? haha

But there's no evidence that the decrease in their murder rates was solely as a consequence of banning firearms.

 

[Rotagilla]

Humans have always acted that way and will always act that way

Sure. With that attitude.

Is it wrong?

People have been murdering other people for as long as we have existed.

I see nothing that will change that in our future

It can be overcome, if people can let go of the ego.

That's hilarious!
Did your sociology professor tell you that?

When do you believe this magical day of spontaneous harmony will suddenly manifest?

No. I never had one.

Hmm...maybe you should have taken the course, then.
Do you seriously believe what you typed?

*Pro Tip*
Humans are flawed creatures.

They always have been. They always will be.
There will always be crime, jealousy, anger, frustration, corruption..etc.. all the vices.

 

[BullKurtz]

Guns per capita & homicides per capita:

USA : 90 guns per 100 people
Holland: 3.9

USA 4.7
Holland: 0.9

And another myth bites the dust.....

Holland has no blacks and drugs are legal....YOUR myth bites the dust.

 

[Truman123]

Sure. With that attitude.

Is it wrong?

People have been murdering other people for as long as we have existed.

I see nothing that will change that in our future

It can be overcome, if people can let go of the ego.

That's hilarious!
Did your sociology professor tell you that?

When do you believe this magical day of spontaneous harmony will suddenly manifest?

No. I never had one.

Hmm...maybe you should have taken the course, then.
Do you seriously believe what you typed?

*Pro Tip*
Humans are flawed creatures.

They always have been. They always will be.
There will always be crime, jealousy, anger, frustration, corruption..etc.. all the vices.

So I'm dumb if I take it and maybe I should take it?


Humans can rise to a consciousness. Most are asleep in nationalism and religion, but saying things will always be the way they were is silly.



Has that been the human experience?