In Defense of God

[the_human_being]

"Those guys saying Jehovah isn't real because nobody ever seems to see him or talk to him? Yeah, they're the fools. Don't listen to them. Jehovah is totally real. Trust us...and don't forget to tithe. Or else."
-Every Jewish Priest Ever

At best, it's a fairy tale that has gained the veneer of truth because everybody wants to believe there is someone behind this mess. It's unsettling to think this madness is just how it is and there's nothing we can do about it. People are indoctrinated as children and just go along with it because it's a family tradition, the same as having Aunt Jenny's Green Bean Casserole at Thanksgiving. babies don't die because they just got unlucky, that house didn't just fall on grandma during the last earthquake by chance, famines and wars and genocides are all part of some divine plan and/or because of Adam and Eve.

Sounds like you have made your choice. Fine. You have that right.

 

[Steven_R]

 

[Steven_R]

"Those guys saying Jehovah isn't real because nobody ever seems to see him or talk to him? Yeah, they're the fools. Don't listen to them. Jehovah is totally real. Trust us...and don't forget to tithe. Or else."
-Every Jewish Priest Ever

At best, it's a fairy tale that has gained the veneer of truth because everybody wants to believe there is someone behind this mess. It's unsettling to think this madness is just how it is and there's nothing we can do about it. People are indoctrinated as children and just go along with it because it's a family tradition, the same as having Aunt Jenny's Green Bean Casserole at Thanksgiving. babies don't die because they just got unlucky, that house didn't just fall on grandma during the last earthquake by chance, famines and wars and genocides are all part of some divine plan and/or because of Adam and Eve.

Sounds like you have made your choice. Fine. You have that right.

Damn straight I did. And I have no problem with you if you choose to believe in Jehovah or Zeus or Odin or Ra or the Flying Spaghetti Monster or Strawberry Shortcake or what have you. My problem is the idea that Jehovah is some moral and ethical and loving being when the Bible says otherwise.

 

[the_human_being]

"Those guys saying Jehovah isn't real because nobody ever seems to see him or talk to him? Yeah, they're the fools. Don't listen to them. Jehovah is totally real. Trust us...and don't forget to tithe. Or else."
-Every Jewish Priest Ever

At best, it's a fairy tale that has gained the veneer of truth because everybody wants to believe there is someone behind this mess. It's unsettling to think this madness is just how it is and there's nothing we can do about it. People are indoctrinated as children and just go along with it because it's a family tradition, the same as having Aunt Jenny's Green Bean Casserole at Thanksgiving. babies don't die because they just got unlucky, that house didn't just fall on grandma during the last earthquake by chance, famines and wars and genocides are all part of some divine plan and/or because of Adam and Eve.

Sounds like you have made your choice. Fine. You have that right.

Damn straight I did. And I have no problem with you if you choose to believe in Jehovah or Zeus or Odin or Ra or the Flying Spaghetti Monster or Strawberry Shortcake or what have you. My problem is the idea that Jehovah is some moral and ethical and loving being when the Bible says otherwise.

Fine. I also accept your right to believe as you wish.

 

[Bonzi]

Life is an eternity.
Our life on Earth is a tiny fraction of our life.
God is God. He's the reason we are here, so who are we to question?
We get to choose if we want to spend eternity in Heaven or Hell.
If we care more about the tiny fraction of our life on Earth, enough to choose Hell over Heaven, that is YOUR choice!

 

[Taz]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: God is an abusive husband. The entire Bible boils down to God standing over a cowering humanity saying "See what you did? Why do you make me hit you? Don't you know I love you so much?"

Your problem remains that God does not consider the first death as of any major importance. Even Christ suffered a very cruel and painful first death.

So god is a torturer, as well as a murderer because he couldn't control the people. What a sack of douche.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

It is said that God hates sin. It is said that God simply cannot abide sin. Disobedience in the Garden resulted in the sentence of death befalling all men. That is a fact whether we agree with that sentence or not, matters not because it remains a settled fact.

No, it is not a fact. It is no such thing whatsoever. It is a myth that some people choose to believe.

 

[JoeB131]

I see all these OP's and posts claiming God to be a mass murderer and totally just an absolute mean and evil entity. Perhaps we need to look at things from His viewpoint?

It is said that God hates sin. It is said that God simply cannot abide sin. Disobedience in the Garden resulted in the sentence of death befalling all men. That is a fact whether we agree with that sentence or not, matters not because it remains a settled fact. All die.

Man's lifespan is but the blink of God's eye. Man's lifespan has little effect in the overall scope of things. Since we all die, does it really matter in the overall scope of things, when we die since die we will?

Aren't you kind of contradicting yourself here? if our short lives are of no real concern to an eternal Sky Pixie with a 14 billion year plan, then why would he care if we were "sinning' or not?

So one protests that God flooded the world and killed all but eight souls. Murderer you scream! Read the Bible. Noah and his family were the only ones pure in their bloodlines at the time of the flood. The entirety of mankind had become tainted with the intermarriage with the Watchers. The offspring of these unions between the daughters of men and the Watchers were giants and had taken up cannibalism to satisfy their enormous appetites. It was these hybrid people that God killed off in the flood. They were not of His creation and He saved those eight who had remained of His creation.

You are really are reading a lot into that. The bible itself says nothing of the sort.

Genesis
6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Nothing there about Cannibalism.

Nor was there anything saying that all but 8 people had no tainted blood in them. The bizarre notion that angels could have sex is kind of silly, anyway. Why would Angels even have dicks?

Move on to Sodom. The plains cities were filled with sin. God destroyed the plains cities rather that allow them to continue in sin. Yes, he killed the children as well as the adults. Murderer you scream. Since we live under the sentence of death already, what does it matter? Rather than have even the children grow up and become even more sinful than their parents, God in his mercy killed them too.

Okay, so if God doesn't care all that much, then why did he bother to save Lot and his family? Keep in mind, this is the SAME Lot who had offered up his daughters for gang rape to the angry mob of villagers.

Many of the people the Israelites killed and took their lands during the time Moses was leading them were also hybrid creatures because the Watchers also intermarried with the daughters of men after the flood. It was not until the time of David and his men that the last of the Giants were finally killed off. That is one major reason God so loved David. He finally got the job done that even Samuel refused to do.

Except David never finished off the Philestines or the Amelkites, as much slaughter of women and children as he did.

Also, assuming that Angels apparenly have the ability to come down to earth and get them some strange, why wouldn't we see sexy angels today getting some....

Everyone who ever lived will live again. It is not the first death or the death of this fleshly body we are to be concerned with. It is the second death that those who partake of will be the ultimate death and final and lasting consequence.

The things is, the MEN who wrote the Old Testament didn't think there was a life after death. To them "God" was just every act of nature that their primative Bronze Age minds couldn't comprehend. The slightly more evolved savages who wrote the New Testament decided they needed fairy stories about sunshine and puppies after you die, because it's obvious there's no justice in this life.

The reality. This life is all we have, there probably isn't a God, so you might as well enjoy yourself.

 

[the_human_being]

It is said that God hates sin. It is said that God simply cannot abide sin. Disobedience in the Garden resulted in the sentence of death befalling all men. That is a fact whether we agree with that sentence or not, matters not because it remains a settled fact.

No, it is not a fact. It is no such thing whatsoever. It is a myth that some people choose to believe.

You mean people don't die? Are the cemeteries chock full of live people? LOL!!

 

[the_human_being]

I see all these OP's and posts claiming God to be a mass murderer and totally just an absolute mean and evil entity. Perhaps we need to look at things from His viewpoint?

It is said that God hates sin. It is said that God simply cannot abide sin. Disobedience in the Garden resulted in the sentence of death befalling all men. That is a fact whether we agree with that sentence or not, matters not because it remains a settled fact. All die.

Man's lifespan is but the blink of God's eye. Man's lifespan has little effect in the overall scope of things. Since we all die, does it really matter in the overall scope of things, when we die since die we will?

Aren't you kind of contradicting yourself here? if our short lives are of no real concern to an eternal Sky Pixie with a 14 billion year plan, then why would he care if we were "sinning' or not?

So one protests that God flooded the world and killed all but eight souls. Murderer you scream! Read the Bible. Noah and his family were the only ones pure in their bloodlines at the time of the flood. The entirety of mankind had become tainted with the intermarriage with the Watchers. The offspring of these unions between the daughters of men and the Watchers were giants and had taken up cannibalism to satisfy their enormous appetites. It was these hybrid people that God killed off in the flood. They were not of His creation and He saved those eight who had remained of His creation.

You are really are reading a lot into that. The bible itself says nothing of the sort.

Genesis
6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Nothing there about Cannibalism.

Nor was there anything saying that all but 8 people had no tainted blood in them. The bizarre notion that angels could have sex is kind of silly, anyway. Why would Angels even have dicks?

Move on to Sodom. The plains cities were filled with sin. God destroyed the plains cities rather that allow them to continue in sin. Yes, he killed the children as well as the adults. Murderer you scream. Since we live under the sentence of death already, what does it matter? Rather than have even the children grow up and become even more sinful than their parents, God in his mercy killed them too.

Okay, so if God doesn't care all that much, then why did he bother to save Lot and his family? Keep in mind, this is the SAME Lot who had offered up his daughters for gang rape to the angry mob of villagers.

Many of the people the Israelites killed and took their lands during the time Moses was leading them were also hybrid creatures because the Watchers also intermarried with the daughters of men after the flood. It was not until the time of David and his men that the last of the Giants were finally killed off. That is one major reason God so loved David. He finally got the job done that even Samuel refused to do.

Except David never finished off the Philestines or the Amelkites, as much slaughter of women and children as he did.

Also, assuming that Angels apparenly have the ability to come down to earth and get them some strange, why wouldn't we see sexy angels today getting some....

Everyone who ever lived will live again. It is not the first death or the death of this fleshly body we are to be concerned with. It is the second death that those who partake of will be the ultimate death and final and lasting consequence.

The things is, the MEN who wrote the Old Testament didn't think there was a life after death. To them "God" was just every act of nature that their primative Bronze Age minds couldn't comprehend. The slightly more evolved savages who wrote the New Testament decided they needed fairy stories about sunshine and puppies after you die, because it's obvious there's no justice in this life.

The reality. This life is all we have, there probably isn't a God, so you might as well enjoy yourself.

You lack of Bible knowledge is astounding to say the least.

 

[the_human_being]

I see all these OP's and posts claiming God to be a mass murderer and totally just an absolute mean and evil entity. Perhaps we need to look at things from His viewpoint?

It is said that God hates sin. It is said that God simply cannot abide sin. Disobedience in the Garden resulted in the sentence of death befalling all men. That is a fact whether we agree with that sentence or not, matters not because it remains a settled fact. All die.

Man's lifespan is but the blink of God's eye. Man's lifespan has little effect in the overall scope of things. Since we all die, does it really matter in the overall scope of things, when we die since die we will?

Aren't you kind of contradicting yourself here? if our short lives are of no real concern to an eternal Sky Pixie with a 14 billion year plan, then why would he care if we were "sinning' or not?

So one protests that God flooded the world and killed all but eight souls. Murderer you scream! Read the Bible. Noah and his family were the only ones pure in their bloodlines at the time of the flood. The entirety of mankind had become tainted with the intermarriage with the Watchers. The offspring of these unions between the daughters of men and the Watchers were giants and had taken up cannibalism to satisfy their enormous appetites. It was these hybrid people that God killed off in the flood. They were not of His creation and He saved those eight who had remained of His creation.

You are really are reading a lot into that. The bible itself says nothing of the sort.

Genesis
6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Nothing there about Cannibalism.

Nor was there anything saying that all but 8 people had no tainted blood in them. The bizarre notion that angels could have sex is kind of silly, anyway. Why would Angels even have dicks?

Move on to Sodom. The plains cities were filled with sin. God destroyed the plains cities rather that allow them to continue in sin. Yes, he killed the children as well as the adults. Murderer you scream. Since we live under the sentence of death already, what does it matter? Rather than have even the children grow up and become even more sinful than their parents, God in his mercy killed them too.

Okay, so if God doesn't care all that much, then why did he bother to save Lot and his family? Keep in mind, this is the SAME Lot who had offered up his daughters for gang rape to the angry mob of villagers.

Many of the people the Israelites killed and took their lands during the time Moses was leading them were also hybrid creatures because the Watchers also intermarried with the daughters of men after the flood. It was not until the time of David and his men that the last of the Giants were finally killed off. That is one major reason God so loved David. He finally got the job done that even Samuel refused to do.

Except David never finished off the Philestines or the Amelkites, as much slaughter of women and children as he did.

Also, assuming that Angels apparenly have the ability to come down to earth and get them some strange, why wouldn't we see sexy angels today getting some....

Everyone who ever lived will live again. It is not the first death or the death of this fleshly body we are to be concerned with. It is the second death that those who partake of will be the ultimate death and final and lasting consequence.

The things is, the MEN who wrote the Old Testament didn't think there was a life after death. To them "God" was just every act of nature that their primative Bronze Age minds couldn't comprehend. The slightly more evolved savages who wrote the New Testament decided they needed fairy stories about sunshine and puppies after you die, because it's obvious there's no justice in this life.

The reality. This life is all we have, there probably isn't a God, so you might as well enjoy yourself.

Never actually read the Old Testament have you?

 

[JoeB131]

You lack of Bible knowledge is astounding to say the least.

then you should be able to quote chapter and verse backing up what you say, then.

Or are you like most Christians who treat the Bible like a Software Agreement,where you click "I Agree" without reading it?

 

[JoeB131]

Never actually read the Old Testament have you?

Uh, yes, i have, and you haven't refuted any point I've made, other than stomping your feet and saying, "That's not true". I get enough of that shit from the Gun nuts.

 

[the_human_being]

You lack of Bible knowledge is astounding to say the least.

then you should be able to quote chapter and verse backing up what you say, then.

Or are you like most Christians who treat the Bible like a Software Agreement,where you click "I Agree" without reading it?

No but I certainly should expect you to have some basic knowledge of the Bible and not expect me to answer 20 basic questions for you. I could sit here and ask you twenty questions but I don't that and don't have to do that because I have done my homework.

 

[the_human_being]

Never actually read the Old Testament have you?

Uh, yes, i have, and you haven't refuted any point I've made, other than stomping your feet and saying, "That's not true". I get enough of that shit from the Gun nuts.

That's probably because they too have found you to be totally without knowledge of gun control as well. Why not spend some time off the board and educate yourself.

 

[JoeB131]

That's probably because they too have found you to be totally without knowledge of gun control as well. Why not spend some time off the board and educate yourself.

So three posts and you still can't refute anything I've said.

Hey, where are the verses that said there were giants practicing cannibalism and that's why God had to drown all the babies? I'd love it if you could share the ACTUAL VERSES and not the bizarre apologetics excuses for them.

Any time now, guy.

 

[JoeB131]

No but I certainly should expect you to have some basic knowledge of the Bible and not expect me to answer 20 basic questions for you. I could sit here and ask you twenty questions but I don't that and don't have to do that because I have done my homework.

You haven't answered ONE question, guy. And really, you can't, because I've bested better bible thumpers than you on this subject.

So you essentially think it's good that God Drowned every baby in the world. Frankly, I asked a nun that in fifth grade and she screamed "Because they were WIIIIICKED!"

You can't even reach that level of discourse, as retarded as it was.

 

[onefour1]

This mortal earth life is a temporary state designed to test man to see if he will do all things whatsoever the Lord God asks of him. It is a drop in the bucket of eternity. All the pain, suffering and death are here to give us experience and help us to progress in eternity. If we endure it well, we shall be exalted on High. If we succumb to the evil we will not be exalted on High. It is a test to see whether we can learn to choose good over evil in and of ourselves. God is Lord over the earth and he chooses when we come into this temporary state and when we shall leave. It is not for man to choose. Thus the commandment to not murder. But for God it is his right and responsibility. In the days of Noah men had become so depraved and the scriptures tell us:

Genesis 6:11-13
11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

Mankind will all resurrect and live forever. This God knows and He works in the eternal scheme of things. This life is a temporal state prepared for our progression to learn to be more like God. Many will not pass the test. Most of the violence in the world is caused by man and his wickedness. If all men were like Jesus Christ, there would be no violence in the world. But we came to this life to experience many things including death. If we are good and endure to the end in being a good person, the Lord will reward us eternally.

Doctrine and Covenants 14:7
7 And, if you keep my commandments and endure to the end you shall have eternal life, which gift is the greatest of all the gifts of God.

Eternal Life is not the same as immortality. Immortality is a blessing given to all mankind. All mankind will resurrect and life forever. But Eternal Life is to receive a life like God's life. It is to live forever in his kingdom where there is peace and glory forever and ever.

 

[the_human_being]

No but I certainly should expect you to have some basic knowledge of the Bible and not expect me to answer 20 basic questions for you. I could sit here and ask you twenty questions but I don't that and don't have to do that because I have done my homework.

You haven't answered ONE question, guy. And really, you can't, because I've bested better bible thumpers than you on this subject.

So you essentially think it's good that God Drowned every baby in the world. Frankly, I asked a nun that in fifth grade and she screamed "Because they were WIIIIICKED!"

You can't even reach that level of discourse, as retarded as it was.

Ok. I assume you do agree that the Bible speaks of a flood that drown all but eight people on earth? Tell me if you don't so as not to waste both our times. Now, all the people on earth would also mean all the babies were drown also, right?

Let's look at the eight saved.

Gen_6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God. (1) Noah was just, (2) Noah was pervfect in his generations.. What does "perfect in one generations imply? It implys that Noah's bloodline was pure and unblemished., (3) Noah walked with God.

Now, I assume your question is, why were all the rest drown including the babies?

Gen 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Who were these "sons of God"? They were angelic beings. Had these been merely Seth's sons, these "daughters of men" would not need be called "daughters of men" because they would have been cousins to Seth's sons and also would have been the daughters of their Uncle Lamech. One would use the term "daughters of men only when one is speaking of someone who is not a human being.

Continuing

Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

There you have it. There you have the key.

And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart
Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

These people were no longer perfect in their generations. They had become hybrids. They no longer were the humans that God had created. They were evil so God sent the flood.

These were the Nephelim, or fallen ones. The Second Book of Enoch details them. Our Bible mentions them very sparsley because it was deemed by those who picked out what to reject and what to include decided to leave the Book of Enoch out, however both Jude and Peter speak of these fallen angels being in chains until the judgement.

 

[JoeB131]

Ok. I assume you do agree that the Bible speaks of a flood that drown all but eight people on earth? Tell me if you don't so as not to waste both our times. Now, all the people on earth would also mean all the babies were drown also, right?

Oh, no, I think that's a fairy story that adapted much older fairy stories from older civilizations. But a Fictional God who would drown fictional babies is as much an asshole as a real God who would drown real babies. There's a whole lot of scientific reasons why we couldn't have all descended from 8 interrelated people after an ecological catastrophe wiped out all life on earth. But I want to concentrate on the MORAL tale.

Gen 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Who were these "sons of God"? They were angelic beings. Had these been merely Seth's sons, these "daughters of men" would not need be called "daughters of men" because they would have been cousins to Seth's sons and also would have been the daughters of their Uncle Lamech. One would use the term "daughters of men only when one is speaking of someone who is not a human being.

I have to kind of stop you here, because here's where you are wildly speculating and reading stuff into the scripture that just isn't there.

The thing is, if you read that Angels are the "sons of God", then that contradicts the whole concept that Jesus was God's only son. (which is what all the Christians except the Mormons believe.)

In fact, we don't really know anything about these Sons of Gods or the children born to them other than they were the "Men of Renown" mentioned in the king James version. It's one of those vague verses that you guys tack a whole lot of meaning to, but doesn't really say what you claim.

These were the Nephelim, or fallen ones. The Second Book of Enoch details them. Our Bible mentions them very sparsley because it was deemed by those who picked out what to reject and what to include decided to leave the Book of Enoch out, however both Jude and Peter speak of these fallen angels being in chains until the judgement.

Except the Books of Enoch are not considered "canon". they were also written MUCH LATER than the Torah. Specifically the SECOND Book of Enoch was written in the first century AD after christians were trying to shoehorn their new doctrine about demons and hell and and afterlife into the Old Testament.

It's kind of like a long running TV show that tries to use fan-fic to shoehorn in stuff to explain contradictions in the earlier episodes. (Star Trek and Doctor Who are notorious for doing this.) But going on the basis of what is in the Bible, what you have is an angry sky pixie who doesn't like the choices people make, and his go-to solution is to murder them all.

Because he loves us.