In Defense of God

[the_human_being]

Most historians never lived during all the periods of time they were writing about. That's why it's called "History". There were several historians that mentioned Jesus in their writings. There was a Roman document called "The Acts of Pontius Pilate" that told of Jesus appearing before him.

Again, the problem here is that the few of these "Histories" that survive only survive because Christians copied them.

The Acts of Pilate were not written until the Fourth Century, after Constantine made Christianity the Official Superstition of the Roman Empire. Overall it was part of the effort to mitigate Roman guilt for Jesus' execution and put all the blame on the Jews. (which in turn has given us 2000 years of anti-Semitism.)

Similarly, the mention of Jesus in Tacitus' annals (Written in the second century) appears to be a interpolation by later Christian Writers. There's no mention of this passage by Christian Scholars until the fifth century.

Also, Pliny mentions "Christians" in a letter to Trajan in 110, asking what to do with them. Now, keep in mind, if you buy the Tacitus account, Christians were blamed for the Great Fire of Rome in 66 AD.

It's like an american official in 2050 having no idea who Al Qaeda is.

Bottom line is in Christians minds they think Josephus met and wrote about Jesus. He did not. He is simply one of the first writers to promote the myth he heard about. That's not proof. People swallow the story today so I'm not shocked that some guy name Jo swallowed it 2000 years ago.

No they don't.
They know he was born in Jerusalem around 37 A.D. but he did know the disciples and the followers.
Why did he believe them?
Because they died horrible deaths rather than renounce Jesus. Every single one of them.

Many of you would die a horrible death rather than renounce Jesus. Doesn't mean the cause you die for is just or real.

Fact is, you believe a story about a virgin birth. I can't take you seriously.

Do you think we really care?

 

[the_human_being]

Most historians never lived during all the periods of time they were writing about. That's why it's called "History". There were several historians that mentioned Jesus in their writings. There was a Roman document called "The Acts of Pontius Pilate" that told of Jesus appearing before him.

Again, the problem here is that the few of these "Histories" that survive only survive because Christians copied them.

The Acts of Pilate were not written until the Fourth Century, after Constantine made Christianity the Official Superstition of the Roman Empire. Overall it was part of the effort to mitigate Roman guilt for Jesus' execution and put all the blame on the Jews. (which in turn has given us 2000 years of anti-Semitism.)

Similarly, the mention of Jesus in Tacitus' annals (Written in the second century) appears to be a interpolation by later Christian Writers. There's no mention of this passage by Christian Scholars until the fifth century.

Also, Pliny mentions "Christians" in a letter to Trajan in 110, asking what to do with them. Now, keep in mind, if you buy the Tacitus account, Christians were blamed for the Great Fire of Rome in 66 AD.

It's like an american official in 2050 having no idea who Al Qaeda is.

Bottom line is in Christians minds they think Josephus met and wrote about Jesus. He did not. He is simply one of the first writers to promote the myth he heard about. That's not proof. People swallow the story today so I'm not shocked that some guy name Jo swallowed it 2000 years ago.

No they don't.
They know he was born in Jerusalem around 37 A.D. but he did know the disciples and the followers.
Why did he believe them?
Because they died horrible deaths rather than renounce Jesus. Every single one of them.

Many of you would die a horrible death rather than renounce Jesus. Doesn't mean the cause you die for is just or real.

Fact is, you believe a story about a virgin birth. I can't take you seriously.

Uh, it's really not us who are faced with dying a horrible death.

 

[the_human_being]

Again, the problem here is that the few of these "Histories" that survive only survive because Christians copied them.

The Acts of Pilate were not written until the Fourth Century, after Constantine made Christianity the Official Superstition of the Roman Empire. Overall it was part of the effort to mitigate Roman guilt for Jesus' execution and put all the blame on the Jews. (which in turn has given us 2000 years of anti-Semitism.)

Similarly, the mention of Jesus in Tacitus' annals (Written in the second century) appears to be a interpolation by later Christian Writers. There's no mention of this passage by Christian Scholars until the fifth century.

Also, Pliny mentions "Christians" in a letter to Trajan in 110, asking what to do with them. Now, keep in mind, if you buy the Tacitus account, Christians were blamed for the Great Fire of Rome in 66 AD.

It's like an american official in 2050 having no idea who Al Qaeda is.

Bottom line is in Christians minds they think Josephus met and wrote about Jesus. He did not. He is simply one of the first writers to promote the myth he heard about. That's not proof. People swallow the story today so I'm not shocked that some guy name Jo swallowed it 2000 years ago.

I've never in my life hard any Christian say that Josephus met Jesus. Can you provide a link that supports your claim?

Then none of you seem to realize that's just hearsay and you shouldn't be using it as evidence of anything. But that is what you infer.

hear·say
ˈhirˌsā/
noun

1. information received from other people that one cannot adequately substantiate; rumor.
   "according to hearsay, Bob had managed to break his arm"
   synonyms: rumor, gossip, tittle-tattle, idle talk; More
   • LAW
     the report of another person's words by a witness, usually disallowed as evidence in a court of law.

Well, you really can't prove Plato ever lived. You can't prove Julius Caesar ever lived, Homer ever lived, nor that Bin Laden was actually ever killed either.

Does anyone say I will burn in hell if I don't believe Bin Ladin was killed? Or that Plato was the son of god and performed miracles? Anyone say Ceasar walked on water? Anyone say god impregnated Homer's mom? I have no reason to deny those men existed.

Uh, I didn't see any post where anyone made such a statement. Could you tell us where it was?

 

[peach174]

Most historians never lived during all the periods of time they were writing about. That's why it's called "History". There were several historians that mentioned Jesus in their writings. There was a Roman document called "The Acts of Pontius Pilate" that told of Jesus appearing before him.

Again, the problem here is that the few of these "Histories" that survive only survive because Christians copied them.

The Acts of Pilate were not written until the Fourth Century, after Constantine made Christianity the Official Superstition of the Roman Empire. Overall it was part of the effort to mitigate Roman guilt for Jesus' execution and put all the blame on the Jews. (which in turn has given us 2000 years of anti-Semitism.)

Similarly, the mention of Jesus in Tacitus' annals (Written in the second century) appears to be a interpolation by later Christian Writers. There's no mention of this passage by Christian Scholars until the fifth century.

Also, Pliny mentions "Christians" in a letter to Trajan in 110, asking what to do with them. Now, keep in mind, if you buy the Tacitus account, Christians were blamed for the Great Fire of Rome in 66 AD.

It's like an american official in 2050 having no idea who Al Qaeda is.

Bottom line is in Christians minds they think Josephus met and wrote about Jesus. He did not. He is simply one of the first writers to promote the myth he heard about. That's not proof. People swallow the story today so I'm not shocked that some guy name Jo swallowed it 2000 years ago.

No they don't.
They know he was born in Jerusalem around 37 A.D. but he did know the disciples and the followers.
Why did he believe them?
Because they died horrible deaths rather than renounce Jesus. Every single one of them.

Many of you would die a horrible death rather than renounce Jesus. Doesn't mean the cause you die for is just or real.

Fact is, you believe a story about a virgin birth. I can't take you seriously.

We can do that today with modern science called in vitro fertilization

 

[sealybobo]

Most historians never lived during all the periods of time they were writing about. That's why it's called "History". There were several historians that mentioned Jesus in their writings. There was a Roman document called "The Acts of Pontius Pilate" that told of Jesus appearing before him.

Again, the problem here is that the few of these "Histories" that survive only survive because Christians copied them.

The Acts of Pilate were not written until the Fourth Century, after Constantine made Christianity the Official Superstition of the Roman Empire. Overall it was part of the effort to mitigate Roman guilt for Jesus' execution and put all the blame on the Jews. (which in turn has given us 2000 years of anti-Semitism.)

Similarly, the mention of Jesus in Tacitus' annals (Written in the second century) appears to be a interpolation by later Christian Writers. There's no mention of this passage by Christian Scholars until the fifth century.

Also, Pliny mentions "Christians" in a letter to Trajan in 110, asking what to do with them. Now, keep in mind, if you buy the Tacitus account, Christians were blamed for the Great Fire of Rome in 66 AD.

It's like an american official in 2050 having no idea who Al Qaeda is.

Bottom line is in Christians minds they think Josephus met and wrote about Jesus. He did not. He is simply one of the first writers to promote the myth he heard about. That's not proof. People swallow the story today so I'm not shocked that some guy name Jo swallowed it 2000 years ago.

No they don't.
They know he was born in Jerusalem around 37 A.D. but he did know the disciples and the followers.
Why did he believe them?
Because they died horrible deaths rather than renounce Jesus. Every single one of them.

Many of you would die a horrible death rather than renounce Jesus. Doesn't mean the cause you die for is just or real.

Fact is, you believe a story about a virgin birth. I can't take you seriously.

Uh, it's really not us who are faced with dying a horrible death.

Everyone's death is horrible. And your fate after you die is the same as mine. Remember what things were like for you 13 billion years before you were born? Remember what you were doing for all that time? Well that is what life will be like for you after you die. Who cares? Better live your life now because you're not going to wake up afterward pal. That's just wishful thinking.

There is a truth and reality independent of our desires. Faith simply reinforces your belief in what you would like to be true, rather than what really is.

Faith isn’t a virtue; it is the glorification of voluntary ignorance.

Argument from wishful thinking. The primary psychological role of traditional religion is deathist rationalisation, that is, rationalising the tragedy of death as a good thing to alleviate the anxiety of mortality.

“I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking. The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there’s little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.” – Carl Sagan

“I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” – Mark Twain

 

[the_human_being]

Again, the problem here is that the few of these "Histories" that survive only survive because Christians copied them.

The Acts of Pilate were not written until the Fourth Century, after Constantine made Christianity the Official Superstition of the Roman Empire. Overall it was part of the effort to mitigate Roman guilt for Jesus' execution and put all the blame on the Jews. (which in turn has given us 2000 years of anti-Semitism.)

Similarly, the mention of Jesus in Tacitus' annals (Written in the second century) appears to be a interpolation by later Christian Writers. There's no mention of this passage by Christian Scholars until the fifth century.

Also, Pliny mentions "Christians" in a letter to Trajan in 110, asking what to do with them. Now, keep in mind, if you buy the Tacitus account, Christians were blamed for the Great Fire of Rome in 66 AD.

It's like an american official in 2050 having no idea who Al Qaeda is.

Bottom line is in Christians minds they think Josephus met and wrote about Jesus. He did not. He is simply one of the first writers to promote the myth he heard about. That's not proof. People swallow the story today so I'm not shocked that some guy name Jo swallowed it 2000 years ago.

No they don't.
They know he was born in Jerusalem around 37 A.D. but he did know the disciples and the followers.
Why did he believe them?
Because they died horrible deaths rather than renounce Jesus. Every single one of them.

Many of you would die a horrible death rather than renounce Jesus. Doesn't mean the cause you die for is just or real.

Fact is, you believe a story about a virgin birth. I can't take you seriously.

Uh, it's really not us who are faced with dying a horrible death.

Everyone's death is horrible. And your fate after you die is the same as mine. Remember what things were like for you 13 billion years before you were born? Remember what you were doing for all that time? Well that is what life will be like for you after you die. Who cares? Better live your life now because you're not going to wake up afterward pal. That's just wishful thinking.

There is a truth and reality independent of our desires. Faith simply reinforces your belief in what you would like to be true, rather than what really is.

Faith isn’t a virtue; it is the glorification of voluntary ignorance.

Argument from wishful thinking. The primary psychological role of traditional religion is deathist rationalisation, that is, rationalising the tragedy of death as a good thing to alleviate the anxiety of mortality.

“I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking. The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there’s little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.” – Carl Sagan

“I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” – Mark Twain

Mark Twain was not a real person.

 

[peach174]

Again, the problem here is that the few of these "Histories" that survive only survive because Christians copied them.

The Acts of Pilate were not written until the Fourth Century, after Constantine made Christianity the Official Superstition of the Roman Empire. Overall it was part of the effort to mitigate Roman guilt for Jesus' execution and put all the blame on the Jews. (which in turn has given us 2000 years of anti-Semitism.)

Similarly, the mention of Jesus in Tacitus' annals (Written in the second century) appears to be a interpolation by later Christian Writers. There's no mention of this passage by Christian Scholars until the fifth century.

Also, Pliny mentions "Christians" in a letter to Trajan in 110, asking what to do with them. Now, keep in mind, if you buy the Tacitus account, Christians were blamed for the Great Fire of Rome in 66 AD.

It's like an american official in 2050 having no idea who Al Qaeda is.

Bottom line is in Christians minds they think Josephus met and wrote about Jesus. He did not. He is simply one of the first writers to promote the myth he heard about. That's not proof. People swallow the story today so I'm not shocked that some guy name Jo swallowed it 2000 years ago.

No they don't.
They know he was born in Jerusalem around 37 A.D. but he did know the disciples and the followers.
Why did he believe them?
Because they died horrible deaths rather than renounce Jesus. Every single one of them.

Many of you would die a horrible death rather than renounce Jesus. Doesn't mean the cause you die for is just or real.

Fact is, you believe a story about a virgin birth. I can't take you seriously.

Uh, it's really not us who are faced with dying a horrible death.

Everyone's death is horrible. And your fate after you die is the same as mine. Remember what things were like for you 13 billion years before you were born? Remember what you were doing for all that time? Well that is what life will be like for you after you die. Who cares? Better live your life now because you're not going to wake up afterward pal. That's just wishful thinking.

There is a truth and reality independent of our desires. Faith simply reinforces your belief in what you would like to be true, rather than what really is.

Faith isn’t a virtue; it is the glorification of voluntary ignorance.

Argument from wishful thinking. The primary psychological role of traditional religion is deathist rationalisation, that is, rationalising the tragedy of death as a good thing to alleviate the anxiety of mortality.

“I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking. The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there’s little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.” – Carl Sagan

“I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” – Mark Twain

You will find out how wrong you are, after you die and your soul stands before the lord.

 

[sealybobo]

Bottom line is in Christians minds they think Josephus met and wrote about Jesus. He did not. He is simply one of the first writers to promote the myth he heard about. That's not proof. People swallow the story today so I'm not shocked that some guy name Jo swallowed it 2000 years ago.

I've never in my life hard any Christian say that Josephus met Jesus. Can you provide a link that supports your claim?

Then none of you seem to realize that's just hearsay and you shouldn't be using it as evidence of anything. But that is what you infer.

hear·say
ˈhirˌsā/
noun

1. information received from other people that one cannot adequately substantiate; rumor.
   "according to hearsay, Bob had managed to break his arm"
   synonyms: rumor, gossip, tittle-tattle, idle talk; More
   • LAW
     the report of another person's words by a witness, usually disallowed as evidence in a court of law.

Well, you really can't prove Plato ever lived. You can't prove Julius Caesar ever lived, Homer ever lived, nor that Bin Laden was actually ever killed either.

Does anyone say I will burn in hell if I don't believe Bin Ladin was killed? Or that Plato was the son of god and performed miracles? Anyone say Ceasar walked on water? Anyone say god impregnated Homer's mom? I have no reason to deny those men existed.

Uh, I didn't see any post where anyone made such a statement. Could you tell us where it was?

You missed the point. If I find you to be stupid I will stop debating with you. The point is, I have no reason to doubt Plato or Homer were real people. Nobody says they did miracles or things that can't possibly be true.

And I know the New Testament is the greatest BS story ever told, but how do you take the Old Testament seriously? It was clearly written by men, not God?

So if you know that's a bullshit story, how do you not realize so is your spinoff?

“Now, if the book of Genesis is an allegory, then sin is an allegory, the Fall is an allegory and the need for a Savior is an allegory – but if we are all descendants of an allegory, where does that leave us? It destroys the foundation of all Christian doctrine—it destroys the foundation of the gospel.” – Ken Ham

 

[the_human_being]

Most historians never lived during all the periods of time they were writing about. That's why it's called "History". There were several historians that mentioned Jesus in their writings. There was a Roman document called "The Acts of Pontius Pilate" that told of Jesus appearing before him.

Again, the problem here is that the few of these "Histories" that survive only survive because Christians copied them.

The Acts of Pilate were not written until the Fourth Century, after Constantine made Christianity the Official Superstition of the Roman Empire. Overall it was part of the effort to mitigate Roman guilt for Jesus' execution and put all the blame on the Jews. (which in turn has given us 2000 years of anti-Semitism.)

Similarly, the mention of Jesus in Tacitus' annals (Written in the second century) appears to be a interpolation by later Christian Writers. There's no mention of this passage by Christian Scholars until the fifth century.

Also, Pliny mentions "Christians" in a letter to Trajan in 110, asking what to do with them. Now, keep in mind, if you buy the Tacitus account, Christians were blamed for the Great Fire of Rome in 66 AD.

It's like an american official in 2050 having no idea who Al Qaeda is.

Bottom line is in Christians minds they think Josephus met and wrote about Jesus. He did not. He is simply one of the first writers to promote the myth he heard about. That's not proof. People swallow the story today so I'm not shocked that some guy name Jo swallowed it 2000 years ago.

So Peter, Paul, James and all the others were fictitious characters as well?

 

[sealybobo]

Bottom line is in Christians minds they think Josephus met and wrote about Jesus. He did not. He is simply one of the first writers to promote the myth he heard about. That's not proof. People swallow the story today so I'm not shocked that some guy name Jo swallowed it 2000 years ago.

No they don't.
They know he was born in Jerusalem around 37 A.D. but he did know the disciples and the followers.
Why did he believe them?
Because they died horrible deaths rather than renounce Jesus. Every single one of them.

Many of you would die a horrible death rather than renounce Jesus. Doesn't mean the cause you die for is just or real.

Fact is, you believe a story about a virgin birth. I can't take you seriously.

Uh, it's really not us who are faced with dying a horrible death.

Everyone's death is horrible. And your fate after you die is the same as mine. Remember what things were like for you 13 billion years before you were born? Remember what you were doing for all that time? Well that is what life will be like for you after you die. Who cares? Better live your life now because you're not going to wake up afterward pal. That's just wishful thinking.

There is a truth and reality independent of our desires. Faith simply reinforces your belief in what you would like to be true, rather than what really is.

Faith isn’t a virtue; it is the glorification of voluntary ignorance.

Argument from wishful thinking. The primary psychological role of traditional religion is deathist rationalisation, that is, rationalising the tragedy of death as a good thing to alleviate the anxiety of mortality.

“I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking. The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there’s little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.” – Carl Sagan

“I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” – Mark Twain

You will find out how wrong you are, after you die and your soul stands before the lord.

I'll take my chances you don't know what the hell you are talking about nutjob.

Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.

 

[sealybobo]

Most historians never lived during all the periods of time they were writing about. That's why it's called "History". There were several historians that mentioned Jesus in their writings. There was a Roman document called "The Acts of Pontius Pilate" that told of Jesus appearing before him.

Again, the problem here is that the few of these "Histories" that survive only survive because Christians copied them.

The Acts of Pilate were not written until the Fourth Century, after Constantine made Christianity the Official Superstition of the Roman Empire. Overall it was part of the effort to mitigate Roman guilt for Jesus' execution and put all the blame on the Jews. (which in turn has given us 2000 years of anti-Semitism.)

Similarly, the mention of Jesus in Tacitus' annals (Written in the second century) appears to be a interpolation by later Christian Writers. There's no mention of this passage by Christian Scholars until the fifth century.

Also, Pliny mentions "Christians" in a letter to Trajan in 110, asking what to do with them. Now, keep in mind, if you buy the Tacitus account, Christians were blamed for the Great Fire of Rome in 66 AD.

It's like an american official in 2050 having no idea who Al Qaeda is.

Bottom line is in Christians minds they think Josephus met and wrote about Jesus. He did not. He is simply one of the first writers to promote the myth he heard about. That's not proof. People swallow the story today so I'm not shocked that some guy name Jo swallowed it 2000 years ago.

So Peter, Paul, James and all the others were fictitious characters as well?

11 guys started a cult. BFD.

 

[the_human_being]

I've never in my life hard any Christian say that Josephus met Jesus. Can you provide a link that supports your claim?

Then none of you seem to realize that's just hearsay and you shouldn't be using it as evidence of anything. But that is what you infer.

hear·say
ˈhirˌsā/
noun

1. information received from other people that one cannot adequately substantiate; rumor.
   "according to hearsay, Bob had managed to break his arm"
   synonyms: rumor, gossip, tittle-tattle, idle talk; More
   • LAW
     the report of another person's words by a witness, usually disallowed as evidence in a court of law.

Well, you really can't prove Plato ever lived. You can't prove Julius Caesar ever lived, Homer ever lived, nor that Bin Laden was actually ever killed either.

Does anyone say I will burn in hell if I don't believe Bin Ladin was killed? Or that Plato was the son of god and performed miracles? Anyone say Ceasar walked on water? Anyone say god impregnated Homer's mom? I have no reason to deny those men existed.

Uh, I didn't see any post where anyone made such a statement. Could you tell us where it was?

You missed the point. If I find you to be stupid I will stop debating with you. The point is, I have no reason to doubt Plato or Homer were real people. Nobody says they did miracles or things that can't possibly be true.

And I know the New Testament is the greatest BS story ever told, but how do you take the Old Testament seriously? It was clearly written by men, not God?

So if you know that's a bullshit story, how do you not realize so is your spinoff?

“Now, if the book of Genesis is an allegory, then sin is an allegory, the Fall is an allegory and the need for a Savior is an allegory – but if we are all descendants of an allegory, where does that leave us? It destroys the foundation of all Christian doctrine—it destroys the foundation of the gospel.” – Ken Ham

We're not debating are we? I thought you knew that I just found you amusing. Pathetic, but still somewhat amusing.

 

[the_human_being]

Most historians never lived during all the periods of time they were writing about. That's why it's called "History". There were several historians that mentioned Jesus in their writings. There was a Roman document called "The Acts of Pontius Pilate" that told of Jesus appearing before him.

Again, the problem here is that the few of these "Histories" that survive only survive because Christians copied them.

The Acts of Pilate were not written until the Fourth Century, after Constantine made Christianity the Official Superstition of the Roman Empire. Overall it was part of the effort to mitigate Roman guilt for Jesus' execution and put all the blame on the Jews. (which in turn has given us 2000 years of anti-Semitism.)

Similarly, the mention of Jesus in Tacitus' annals (Written in the second century) appears to be a interpolation by later Christian Writers. There's no mention of this passage by Christian Scholars until the fifth century.

Also, Pliny mentions "Christians" in a letter to Trajan in 110, asking what to do with them. Now, keep in mind, if you buy the Tacitus account, Christians were blamed for the Great Fire of Rome in 66 AD.

It's like an american official in 2050 having no idea who Al Qaeda is.

Bottom line is in Christians minds they think Josephus met and wrote about Jesus. He did not. He is simply one of the first writers to promote the myth he heard about. That's not proof. People swallow the story today so I'm not shocked that some guy name Jo swallowed it 2000 years ago.

So Peter, Paul, James and all the others were fictitious characters as well?

11 guys started a cult. BFD.

Were they real guys though? That was my question.

 

[sealybobo]

Most historians never lived during all the periods of time they were writing about. That's why it's called "History". There were several historians that mentioned Jesus in their writings. There was a Roman document called "The Acts of Pontius Pilate" that told of Jesus appearing before him.

Again, the problem here is that the few of these "Histories" that survive only survive because Christians copied them.

The Acts of Pilate were not written until the Fourth Century, after Constantine made Christianity the Official Superstition of the Roman Empire. Overall it was part of the effort to mitigate Roman guilt for Jesus' execution and put all the blame on the Jews. (which in turn has given us 2000 years of anti-Semitism.)

Similarly, the mention of Jesus in Tacitus' annals (Written in the second century) appears to be a interpolation by later Christian Writers. There's no mention of this passage by Christian Scholars until the fifth century.

Also, Pliny mentions "Christians" in a letter to Trajan in 110, asking what to do with them. Now, keep in mind, if you buy the Tacitus account, Christians were blamed for the Great Fire of Rome in 66 AD.

It's like an american official in 2050 having no idea who Al Qaeda is.

Bottom line is in Christians minds they think Josephus met and wrote about Jesus. He did not. He is simply one of the first writers to promote the myth he heard about. That's not proof. People swallow the story today so I'm not shocked that some guy name Jo swallowed it 2000 years ago.

So Peter, Paul, James and all the others were fictitious characters as well?

11 guys started a cult. BFD.

Were they real guys though? That was my question.

Maybe maybe not. From the stories they told, they were at least fos.

 

[peach174]

No they don't.
They know he was born in Jerusalem around 37 A.D. but he did know the disciples and the followers.
Why did he believe them?
Because they died horrible deaths rather than renounce Jesus. Every single one of them.

Many of you would die a horrible death rather than renounce Jesus. Doesn't mean the cause you die for is just or real.

Fact is, you believe a story about a virgin birth. I can't take you seriously.

Uh, it's really not us who are faced with dying a horrible death.

Everyone's death is horrible. And your fate after you die is the same as mine. Remember what things were like for you 13 billion years before you were born? Remember what you were doing for all that time? Well that is what life will be like for you after you die. Who cares? Better live your life now because you're not going to wake up afterward pal. That's just wishful thinking.

There is a truth and reality independent of our desires. Faith simply reinforces your belief in what you would like to be true, rather than what really is.

Faith isn’t a virtue; it is the glorification of voluntary ignorance.

Argument from wishful thinking. The primary psychological role of traditional religion is deathist rationalisation, that is, rationalising the tragedy of death as a good thing to alleviate the anxiety of mortality.

“I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking. The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there’s little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.” – Carl Sagan

“I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” – Mark Twain

You will find out how wrong you are, after you die and your soul stands before the lord.

I'll take my chances you don't know what the hell you are talking about nutjob.

Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.

And you call me the nut job?

If mankind can inseminate a virgin woman today so could God who is the ultimate scientist.

You are the one who knows nothing about Christianity.

 

[the_human_being]

Again, the problem here is that the few of these "Histories" that survive only survive because Christians copied them.

The Acts of Pilate were not written until the Fourth Century, after Constantine made Christianity the Official Superstition of the Roman Empire. Overall it was part of the effort to mitigate Roman guilt for Jesus' execution and put all the blame on the Jews. (which in turn has given us 2000 years of anti-Semitism.)

Similarly, the mention of Jesus in Tacitus' annals (Written in the second century) appears to be a interpolation by later Christian Writers. There's no mention of this passage by Christian Scholars until the fifth century.

Also, Pliny mentions "Christians" in a letter to Trajan in 110, asking what to do with them. Now, keep in mind, if you buy the Tacitus account, Christians were blamed for the Great Fire of Rome in 66 AD.

It's like an american official in 2050 having no idea who Al Qaeda is.

Bottom line is in Christians minds they think Josephus met and wrote about Jesus. He did not. He is simply one of the first writers to promote the myth he heard about. That's not proof. People swallow the story today so I'm not shocked that some guy name Jo swallowed it 2000 years ago.

So Peter, Paul, James and all the others were fictitious characters as well?

11 guys started a cult. BFD.

Were they real guys though? That was my question.

Maybe maybe not. From the stories they told, they were at least fos.

So you really don't know. You did say though that the apostles who came from different places at a time when travel was a real chore, somehow all got together and invented Jesus and Christianity. I got you now. LOL!!

 

[sealybobo]

Bottom line is in Christians minds they think Josephus met and wrote about Jesus. He did not. He is simply one of the first writers to promote the myth he heard about. That's not proof. People swallow the story today so I'm not shocked that some guy name Jo swallowed it 2000 years ago.

So Peter, Paul, James and all the others were fictitious characters as well?

11 guys started a cult. BFD.

Were they real guys though? That was my question.

Maybe maybe not. From the stories they told, they were at least fos.

So you really don't know. You did say though that the apostles who came from different places at a time when travel was a real chore, somehow all got together and invented Jesus and Christianity. I got you now. LOL!!

Yea! Just like Islam or Mormonism or Scientology or Jews got together and made up their religions. Just like the Greeks had wild imaginations and made up the Greek Gods. Or do you think they actually believed Zeus was real? Of course they did! They were primitive gullible superstitious uneducated unevolved humans just like you only you have a 2000 plus year head start on them.

It was soooo hard for Paul to convince the ignorant gullible Greeks that Jesus was real when a week earlier they believed in Zeus and Aphrodite.

 

[sealybobo]

He spread the word of Christianity more than anybody else and for this reason he was named "Equal-to-the-Apostles" and “Apostle of the Nations”. Among the countries he visited to spread Christianity, Apostle Paulcame also to Greece, preaching the Holy Gospel and teaching people about Jesus' mission.

And they bought it? WOW! They must not have been as smart as me.