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This mortal earth life is a temporary state designed to test man to see if he will do all things whatsoever the Lord God asks of him. It is a drop in the bucket of eternity. All the pain, suffering and death are here to give us experience and help us to progress in eternity. If we endure it well, we shall be exalted on High. If we succumb to the evil we will not be exalted on High. It is a test to see whether we can learn to choose good over evil in and of ourselves. God is Lord over the earth and he chooses when we come into this temporary state and when we shall leave. It is not for man to choose. Thus the commandment to not murder. But for God it is his right and responsibility. In the days of Noah men had become so depraved and the scriptures tell us:
Genesis 6:11-13
11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
Mankind will all resurrect and live forever. This God knows and He works in the eternal scheme of things. This life is a temporal state prepared for our progression to learn to be more like God. Many will not pass the test. Most of the violence in the world is caused by man and his wickedness. If all men were like Jesus Christ, there would be no violence in the world. But we came to this life to experience many things including death. If we are good and endure to the end in being a good person, the Lord will reward us eternally.
Doctrine and Covenants 14:7
7 And, if you keep my commandments and endure to the end you shall have eternal life, which gift is the greatest of all the gifts of God.
Eternal Life is not the same as immortality. Immortality is a blessing given to all mankind. All mankind will resurrect and life forever. But Eternal Life is to receive a life like God's life. It is to live forever in his kingdom where there is peace and glory forever and ever.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: God is an abusive husband. The entire Bible boils down to God standing over a cowering humanity saying "See what you did? Why do you make me hit you? Don't you know I love you so much?"
I see all these OP's and posts claiming God to be a mass murderer and totally just an absolute mean and evil entity. Perhaps we need to look at things from His viewpoint?
It is said that God hates sin. It is said that God simply cannot abide sin. Disobedience in the Garden resulted in the sentence of death befalling all men. That is a fact whether we agree with that sentence or not, matters not because it remains a settled fact. All die.
Man's lifespan is but the blink of God's eye. Man's lifespan has little effect in the overall scope of things. Since we all die, does it really matter in the overall scope of things, when we die since die we will?
So one protests that God flooded the world and killed all but eight souls. Murderer you scream! Read the Bible. Noah and his family were the only ones pure in their bloodlines at the time of the flood. The entirety of mankind had become tainted with the intermarriage with the Watchers. The offspring of these unions between the daughters of men and the Watchers were giants and had taken up cannibalism to satisfy their enormous appetites. It was these hybrid people that God killed off in the flood. They were not of His creation and He saved those eight who had remained of His creation.
Move on to Sodom. The plains cities were filled with sin. God destroyed the plains cities rather that allow them to continue in sin. Yes, he killed the children as well as the adults. Murderer you scream. Since we live under the sentence of death already, what does it matter? Rather than have even the children grow up and become even more sinful than their parents, God in his mercy killed them too.
Realize that God does not view this fleshly life in much esteem. It is the spiritual life that God is most concerned with. All these people will live again in a world in which Satan and his influence is safely locked away. The people of these plains cities will live again without satanic influence. It would be well to remember that unlike us, the Law was not given unto these people and the Bible plainly states that it will be more tolerable for them in the judgment.
Many of the people the Israelites killed and took their lands during the time Moses was leading them were also hybrid creatures because the Watchers also intermarried with the daughters of men after the flood. It was not until the time of David and his men that the last of the Giants were finally killed off. That is one major reason God so loved David. He finally got the job done that even Samuel refused to do.
Everyone who ever lived will live again. It is not the first death or the death of this fleshly body we are to be concerned with. It is the second death that those who partake of will be the ultimate death and final and lasting consequence.
Ok. I assume you do agree that the Bible speaks of a flood that drown all but eight people on earth? Tell me if you don't so as not to waste both our times. Now, all the people on earth would also mean all the babies were drown also, right?
Oh, no, I think that's a fairy story that adapted much older fairy stories from older civilizations. But a Fictional God who would drown fictional babies is as much an asshole as a real God who would drown real babies. There's a whole lot of scientific reasons why we couldn't have all descended from 8 interrelated people after an ecological catastrophe wiped out all life on earth. But I want to concentrate on the MORAL tale.
Gen 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Who were these "sons of God"? They were angelic beings. Had these been merely Seth's sons, these "daughters of men" would not need be called "daughters of men" because they would have been cousins to Seth's sons and also would have been the daughters of their Uncle Lamech. One would use the term "daughters of men only when one is speaking of someone who is not a human being.
I have to kind of stop you here, because here's where you are wildly speculating and reading stuff into the scripture that just isn't there.
The thing is, if you read that Angels are the "sons of God", then that contradicts the whole concept that Jesus was God's only son. (which is what all the Christians except the Mormons believe.)
In fact, we don't really know anything about these Sons of Gods or the children born to them other than they were the "Men of Renown" mentioned in the king James version. It's one of those vague verses that you guys tack a whole lot of meaning to, but doesn't really say what you claim.
These were the Nephelim, or fallen ones. The Second Book of Enoch details them. Our Bible mentions them very sparsley because it was deemed by those who picked out what to reject and what to include decided to leave the Book of Enoch out, however both Jude and Peter speak of these fallen angels being in chains until the judgement.
Except the Books of Enoch are not considered "canon". they were also written MUCH LATER than the Torah. Specifically the SECOND Book of Enoch was written in the first century AD after christians were trying to shoehorn their new doctrine about demons and hell and and afterlife into the Old Testament.
It's kind of like a long running TV show that tries to use fan-fic to shoehorn in stuff to explain contradictions in the earlier episodes. (Star Trek and Doctor Who are notorious for doing this.) But going on the basis of what is in the Bible, what you have is an angry sky pixie who doesn't like the choices people make, and his go-to solution is to murder them all.
Because he loves us.
I see all these OP's and posts claiming God to be a mass murderer and totally just an absolute mean and evil entity. Perhaps we need to look at things from His viewpoint?
It is said that God hates sin. It is said that God simply cannot abide sin. Disobedience in the Garden resulted in the sentence of death befalling all men. That is a fact whether we agree with that sentence or not, matters not because it remains a settled fact. All die.
Man's lifespan is but the blink of God's eye. Man's lifespan has little effect in the overall scope of things. Since we all die, does it really matter in the overall scope of things, when we die since die we will?
So one protests that God flooded the world and killed all but eight souls. Murderer you scream! Read the Bible. Noah and his family were the only ones pure in their bloodlines at the time of the flood. The entirety of mankind had become tainted with the intermarriage with the Watchers. The offspring of these unions between the daughters of men and the Watchers were giants and had taken up cannibalism to satisfy their enormous appetites. It was these hybrid people that God killed off in the flood. They were not of His creation and He saved those eight who had remained of His creation.
Move on to Sodom. The plains cities were filled with sin. God destroyed the plains cities rather that allow them to continue in sin. Yes, he killed the children as well as the adults. Murderer you scream. Since we live under the sentence of death already, what does it matter? Rather than have even the children grow up and become even more sinful than their parents, God in his mercy killed them too.
Realize that God does not view this fleshly life in much esteem. It is the spiritual life that God is most concerned with. All these people will live again in a world in which Satan and his influence is safely locked away. The people of these plains cities will live again without satanic influence. It would be well to remember that unlike us, the Law was not given unto these people and the Bible plainly states that it will be more tolerable for them in the judgment.
Many of the people the Israelites killed and took their lands during the time Moses was leading them were also hybrid creatures because the Watchers also intermarried with the daughters of men after the flood. It was not until the time of David and his men that the last of the Giants were finally killed off. That is one major reason God so loved David. He finally got the job done that even Samuel refused to do.
Everyone who ever lived will live again. It is not the first death or the death of this fleshly body we are to be concerned with. It is the second death that those who partake of will be the ultimate death and final and lasting consequence.
People who excused Nazi atrocities and Hitler were called appeasers. People who worked with them collaborators. So what's that make someone excusing a murderous deity?
The difference between you and I is that you did not READ the Bible and inquire. You glossed over it. When I read that four angels are chained at the Euphrates River I asked "WHY' and "What had they done". When I read that a king of angels was chained in darkness in a bottomless pit, I asked "What has he done to deserve that?" When I read that angels had left their first estate and locked away, I asked, "WHY?' When I read that Christ went in the spirit and preached to the spirits in prison, I asked, "Who are these and why are they in prison?" When I read that Gabriel appeared unto Daniel with someone called a "Watcher", I wanted to know what was a "Watcher". I also asked why the sins of Israel were placed upon a goat and sent off into the wilderness. I also asked how a prince of Greecia and a prince of Persia could detain Gabriel for twenty days and cause Gabriel to seek assistance from the archangel Michael.
I asked these questions because I wanted to know. I don't simply gloss over the Bible when I read it. I actually seek out the answers.
The difference between you and I is that you did not READ the Bible and inquire. You glossed over it. When I read that four angels are chained at the Euphrates River I asked "WHY' and "What had they done". When I read that a king of angels was chained in darkness in a bottomless pit, I asked "What has he done to deserve that?" When I read that angels had left their first estate and locked away, I asked, "WHY?' When I read that Christ went in the spirit and preached to the spirits in prison, I asked, "Who are these and why are they in prison?" When I read that Gabriel appeared unto Daniel with someone called a "Watcher", I wanted to know what was a "Watcher". I also asked why the sins of Israel were placed upon a goat and sent off into the wilderness. I also asked how a prince of Greecia and a prince of Persia could detain Gabriel for twenty days and cause Gabriel to seek assistance from the archangel Michael.
I asked these questions because I wanted to know. I don't simply gloss over the Bible when I read it. I actually seek out the answers.
YOu might be on to something here. I don't try to find "hidden meanings" in the words of things I consider fairy tales.
(I will, however, spend a lot of time coming up with nerd theories for Doctor Who, but that's another story.)
My line of inquiry is to put it in the context.
The Torah was written by bronze age savages who just saw "God" as "everything in nature I can't explain". If someone's head blew up after he ate some shrimp, it was because the Shrimp was an abomination unto God, not that the poor sap just had a seafood allergy.
The problem you Bible Believers have is you have this big chunk of barely literate Bronze Age savagery you are trying to hard weld onto more sophisticated iron age beliefs about an afterlife and a God who must have good reasons for doing horrible things.
I'm not held down by that. I look at it from the historical perspective and see how other religions seeped into yours.
But at the end of the day, it's all fairy tales.
Here's some more on the "sons of God":
Job_38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Job_2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
Job_1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
The above "sons of God were the angels - not humans.
Now concerning your canon. I look upon it this way. If Peter and Christ's own half-brother read Enoch and referenced it, then I am not above reading it either. The same with the Book of Jasher. It is referenced in the Bible. Had I not read Jasher, I would not have known who Melchezedek actually was, who killed Nimrod, and how old Jacob was when Rachael was born nor how old Isaac and Rebecca were when Isaac took her to his tent.
Here's some more on the "sons of God":
Job_38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Job_2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
Job_1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
The above "sons of God were the angels - not humans.
But that verse would imply that God had more than one son and that Satan was one of them.
Holy Shit, the Mormons got it right. Satan and Jesus are brothers!!!!
Now concerning your canon. I look upon it this way. If Peter and Christ's own half-brother read Enoch and referenced it, then I am not above reading it either. The same with the Book of Jasher. It is referenced in the Bible. Had I not read Jasher, I would not have known who Melchezedek actually was, who killed Nimrod, and how old Jacob was when Rachael was born nor how old Isaac and Rebecca were when Isaac took her to his tent.
Uh, guy, the book of Jasher referenced in the bible has been lost. If you read something it was the Midrash Jasher, which dates to the 16th century.
Sefer haYashar (midrash) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Also, the SECOND book of Enoch was written after Jesus, and that's the one you referenced. The FIRST book of Enoch might have been available to Jesus's disciples (if they were real people, which they probably weren't) but that book doesn't have the stuff about angels and shit.
In short, you are using later rationalizations to expand upon the text.
And you expand on nothing because the Bible simply doesn't go into answering many of the questions it imposes upon inquiring minds. Look, I care not in the least whether you agree with my OP. It is an opinion piece. My opinion. Now, I really don't know what your opinion is other than to portray God as a murderer. If indeed that is your purpose, then admit it and say as much. I will bow that you are entitled to your own opinion.
And you expand on nothing because the Bible simply doesn't go into answering many of the questions it imposes upon inquiring minds. Look, I care not in the least whether you agree with my OP. It is an opinion piece. My opinion. Now, I really don't know what your opinion is other than to portray God as a murderer. If indeed that is your purpose, then admit it and say as much. I will bow that you are entitled to your own opinion.
My opinion is the bible is a load of myths and bullshit and their is no God.
But reading the bible and just the bible, you just can't come up with a very good opinion of God. And churches spend an awful lot of time ignoring the nastier bits of the bible, and just presenting a nice "Disneyfied" version for Sunday School.
Hell, I didn't even hear the more horrifying Bible Stories in 12 years of Catholic Indoctrination. They told us all about Lot's Wife getting turned into Salt for not listening to God's instructions, but they left out the parts about Lot offering his daughters for gang rape and having drunken sex with them himself.
This mortal earth life is a temporary state designed to test man to see if he will do all things whatsoever the Lord God asks of him. It is a drop in the bucket of eternity. All the pain, suffering and death are here to give us experience and help us to progress in eternity. If we endure it well, we shall be exalted on High. If we succumb to the evil we will not be exalted on High. It is a test to see whether we can learn to choose good over evil in and of ourselves. God is Lord over the earth and he chooses when we come into this temporary state and when we shall leave. It is not for man to choose. Thus the commandment to not murder. But for God it is his right and responsibility. In the days of Noah men had become so depraved and the scriptures tell us:
Genesis 6:11-13
11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
Mankind will all resurrect and live forever. This God knows and He works in the eternal scheme of things. This life is a temporal state prepared for our progression to learn to be more like God. Many will not pass the test. Most of the violence in the world is caused by man and his wickedness. If all men were like Jesus Christ, there would be no violence in the world. But we came to this life to experience many things including death. If we are good and endure to the end in being a good person, the Lord will reward us eternally.
Doctrine and Covenants 14:7
7 And, if you keep my commandments and endure to the end you shall have eternal life, which gift is the greatest of all the gifts of God.
Eternal Life is not the same as immortality. Immortality is a blessing given to all mankind. All mankind will resurrect and life forever. But Eternal Life is to receive a life like God's life. It is to live forever in his kingdom where there is peace and glory forever and ever.
oh, shit, Dude, are you a MORMON? Hey, guy, hate to break it to you, you belong to a whacky cult started by a guy who wanted to fuck teenage girls. I'm so sorry.
Do you know the difference between Joseph Smith and David Koresh?
Original and Extra Crispy!!!!
Do you really understand the emphasis placed upon hospitality and visitors in one's home back in Lot's time? Perhaps you should do a read on that.
You know nothing of the LDS religion and I know that you cannot prove your claim. Instead of referring to your anti-Mormon rhetoric here is a link to give you more insight:
An omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent God doesn't need a mere human's "defense" any more than he needs a starship...
Do you really understand the emphasis placed upon hospitality and visitors in one's home back in Lot's time? Perhaps you should do a read on that.
Yeah, I've heard that lame excuse. Offering your daughters up for gang rape isn't right under any circumsntances. neither is getting drunk off your ass and having sex with them yourself.
Remember, this was the righteous guy God had to dispatch two angels to save.
This mortal earth life is a temporary state designed to test man to see if he will do all things whatsoever the Lord God asks of him. It is a drop in the bucket of eternity. All the pain, suffering and death are here to give us experience and help us to progress in eternity. If we endure it well, we shall be exalted on High. If we succumb to the evil we will not be exalted on High. It is a test to see whether we can learn to choose good over evil in and of ourselves. God is Lord over the earth and he chooses when we come into this temporary state and when we shall leave. It is not for man to choose. Thus the commandment to not murder. But for God it is his right and responsibility. In the days of Noah men had become so depraved and the scriptures tell us:
Genesis 6:11-13
11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
Mankind will all resurrect and live forever. This God knows and He works in the eternal scheme of things. This life is a temporal state prepared for our progression to learn to be more like God. Many will not pass the test. Most of the violence in the world is caused by man and his wickedness. If all men were like Jesus Christ, there would be no violence in the world. But we came to this life to experience many things including death. If we are good and endure to the end in being a good person, the Lord will reward us eternally.
Doctrine and Covenants 14:7
7 And, if you keep my commandments and endure to the end you shall have eternal life, which gift is the greatest of all the gifts of God.
Eternal Life is not the same as immortality. Immortality is a blessing given to all mankind. All mankind will resurrect and life forever. But Eternal Life is to receive a life like God's life. It is to live forever in his kingdom where there is peace and glory forever and ever.
oh, shit, Dude, are you a MORMON? Hey, guy, hate to break it to you, you belong to a whacky cult started by a guy who wanted to fuck teenage girls. I'm so sorry.
Do you know the difference between Joseph Smith and David Koresh?
Original and Extra Crispy!!!!
You know nothing of the LDS religion and I know that you cannot prove your claim. Instead of referring to your anti-Mormon rhetoric here is a link to give you more insight: Joseph Smith/Polygamy/Marriages to young women
Do you understand that the bible is nothing more than a collection of myths and fables, that its stories aren't real, and that the bible was created by men – along with the 'god' it purports; and you're at liberty to believe in these myths and fables – but myths and fables can't be 'defended,' as they are in fact false.And you expand on nothing because the Bible simply doesn't go into answering many of the questions it imposes upon inquiring minds. Look, I care not in the least whether you agree with my OP. It is an opinion piece. My opinion. Now, I really don't know what your opinion is other than to portray God as a murderer. If indeed that is your purpose, then admit it and say as much. I will bow that you are entitled to your own opinion.
My opinion is the bible is a load of myths and bullshit and their is no God.
But reading the bible and just the bible, you just can't come up with a very good opinion of God. And churches spend an awful lot of time ignoring the nastier bits of the bible, and just presenting a nice "Disneyfied" version for Sunday School.
Hell, I didn't even hear the more horrifying Bible Stories in 12 years of Catholic Indoctrination. They told us all about Lot's Wife getting turned into Salt for not listening to God's instructions, but they left out the parts about Lot offering his daughters for gang rape and having drunken sex with them himself.
Do you really understand the emphasis placed upon hospitality and visitors in one's home back in Lot's time? Perhaps you should do a read on that.
Do you understand that the bible is nothing more than a collection of myths and fables, that its stories aren't real, and that the bible was created by men – along with the 'god' it purports; and you're at liberty to believe in these myths and fables – but myths and fables can't be 'defended,' as they are in fact false.And you expand on nothing because the Bible simply doesn't go into answering many of the questions it imposes upon inquiring minds. Look, I care not in the least whether you agree with my OP. It is an opinion piece. My opinion. Now, I really don't know what your opinion is other than to portray God as a murderer. If indeed that is your purpose, then admit it and say as much. I will bow that you are entitled to your own opinion.
My opinion is the bible is a load of myths and bullshit and their is no God.
But reading the bible and just the bible, you just can't come up with a very good opinion of God. And churches spend an awful lot of time ignoring the nastier bits of the bible, and just presenting a nice "Disneyfied" version for Sunday School.
Hell, I didn't even hear the more horrifying Bible Stories in 12 years of Catholic Indoctrination. They told us all about Lot's Wife getting turned into Salt for not listening to God's instructions, but they left out the parts about Lot offering his daughters for gang rape and having drunken sex with them himself.
Do you really understand the emphasis placed upon hospitality and visitors in one's home back in Lot's time? Perhaps you should do a read on that.
