Ingraham/O'Reilly lament not opposing Patriot Act

[Toronado3800]

If folks can stop the cheerleading "not my party's fault" bs maybe the tea baggers on the right and the hippies on the left can get together and overturn or let this piece of lazy cop work and big government expire.

Esentially after 9-11 there was a knee jerk where most of the populace wanted to be strong against terror. The republicans led the way and most democrats toed the line so they would not get voted out.

To over simplify, the Democrats found a candidate who was soo similar to the Republican foreign policy view we still have the Patriot Act and GitMo.

There, I puked blame on everyone. Lets get together and solve thisobvious oroblem.

 

[g5000]

Let me show what overwhelming evidence looks like as I show these idiots their "steroids" claim is full of shit.

Steroids? Let me show you steroids.

2007: FBI Violations May Number 3,000, Official Says

The Justice Department's inspector general told a committee of angry House members yesterday that the FBI may have violated the law or government policies as many as 3,000 times since 2003 as agents secretly collected the telephone, bank and credit card records of U.S. citizens and foreign nationals residing here.

Inspector General Glenn A. Fine said that according to the FBI's own estimate, as many as 600 of these violations could be "cases of serious misconduct" involving the improper use of "national security letters" to compel telephone companies, banks and credit institutions to produce records.

Bush breaking the law on a massive scale.







Let's seeeeee...what else. Oh yeah. Bush thought he could detain American citizens without habeas corpus:
Hamdi v. Rumsfeld

Hamdi v. Rumsfeld, 542 U.S. 507 (2004), is a United States Supreme Court case in which the Court recognized the power of the government to detain enemy combatants, including U.S. citizens, but ruled that detainees who are U.S. citizens must have the rights of due process, and the ability to challenge their enemy combatant status before an impartial authority.

It reversed the dismissal by a lower court of a habeas corpus petition brought on behalf of Yaser Esam Hamdi, a U.S. citizen who was being detained indefinitely as an "illegal enemy combatant" after being captured in Afghanistan in 2001.

So there's solid evidence Bush was violating the Constitution.






And let us not forget the torture. Waterboarding and "enhanced interrogations".








Speaking of habeas corpus and violating the Constitution yet again: Boumediene et al v. Bush

The United States Supreme Court ruled 5-4 Thursday that prisoners held as “enemy combatants” at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba can immediately file habeas corpus petitions in US district courts challenging the legality of their confinement. Most have been held at the US naval base under brutal conditions, enduring solitary confinement and torture, for more than six years. None has ever had the merits of his case reviewed by a court of law.

And for those who were under the gravely mistaken impression Bush never spied on Americans the way Obama is being hit for this week:

2006: NSA has massive database of Americans' phone calls

The National Security Agency has been secretly collecting the phone call records of tens of millions of Americans, using data provided by AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth, people with direct knowledge of the arrangement told USA TODAY.

The NSA program reaches into homes and businesses across the nation by amassing information about the calls of ordinary Americans — most of whom aren't suspected of any crime. This program does not involve the NSA listening to or recording conversations. But the spy agency is using the data to analyze calling patterns in an effort to detect terrorist activity, sources said in separate interviews.

"It's the largest database ever assembled in the world," said one person, who, like the others who agreed to talk about the NSA's activities, declined to be identified by name or affiliation. The agency's goal is "to create a database of every call ever made" within the nation's borders, this person added.

Among the big telecommunications companies, only Qwest has refused to help the NSA, the sources said. According to multiple sources, Qwest declined to participate because it was uneasy about the legal implications of handing over customer information to the government without warrants.

Qwest's refusal to participate has left the NSA with a hole in its database. Based in Denver, Qwest provides local phone service to 14 million customers in 14 states in the West and Northwest. But AT&T and Verizon also provide some services — primarily long-distance and wireless — to people who live in Qwest's region. Therefore, they can provide the NSA with at least some access in that area.

After searching your phone records, Bush asked Congress to give retroactive immunity to the telecommunications companies which turned over your records:

The Bush administration maintains that the changes are consistent with FISA's intent--that targeting foreign communications doesn't require a warrant--and that a warrant is still required for "targeting a person in the United States." But civil-liberties advocates argue that the government is creating a loophole to monitor Americans' e-mails and phone calls to overseas contacts without the intended court approval.

The new law also immunizes from legal liability the private companies that assist the government with surveillance going forward, but Bush repeated existing calls for making that policy retroactive as well.

"It's particularly important for Congress to provide meaningful liability protection to those companies now facing multibillion-dollar lawsuits only because they are believed to have assisted in efforts to defend our nation, following the 9/11 attacks," Bush said.

The Electronic Frontier Foundation, which has sued AT&T over its allegedly illegal cooperation with the government, says references to the crippling liability posed by such suits suggest that the scope of the wiretapping is "massive."

Congress passed the law, giving them that immunity.

 

[Glensather]

Let me show what overwhelming evidence looks like as I show these idiots their "steroids" claim is full of shit.

*cut for length*

Dude. We get it. Look, normally we have nice conversations, but you're trying way too hard to prove something that doesn't matter.

The fact alone that they both did it, and the government continues to support it, is all I need to put any differences between all of us aside and call an end to this bullshit.

 

[g5000]

Let me show what overwhelming evidence looks like as I show these idiots their "steroids" claim is full of shit.

*cut for length*

Dude. We get it. Look, normally we have nice conversations, but you're trying way too hard to prove something that doesn't matter.

The fact alone that they both did it, and the government continues to support it, is all I need to put any differences between all of us aside and call an end to this bullshit.

Some people DON'T get it. They continue to make bullshit claims over and over and over. I'm going to keep kicking them in the balls until they DO get it.


It is way, way, way past time for people to wake up to the fact the piss they have been drinking is poisoning them and this country. They shovel the manufactured bullshit into their mouths like it's caviar.

 

[Glensather]

Let me show what overwhelming evidence looks like as I show these idiots their "steroids" claim is full of shit.

*cut for length*

Dude. We get it. Look, normally we have nice conversations, but you're trying way too hard to prove something that doesn't matter.

The fact alone that they both did it, and the government continues to support it, is all I need to put any differences between all of us aside and call an end to this bullshit.

Some people DON'T get it. They continue to make bullshit claims over and over and over. I'm going to keep kicking them in the balls until they DO get it.


It is way, way, way past time for people to wake up to the fact the piss they have been drinking is poisoning them and this country. They shovel the manufactured bullshit into their mouths like it's caviar.

Eh, okay, I can agree with that.
People are too partisan. I've been shouting from the rooftops since I got to this board that they're trying to screw us, and no one listened.

And now that shit's hit the fan, finally, I can happily tell are the far left and far right people who thought there party is perfect, "I told you so."

 

[Plasmaball]

Evidence, please, the NSA program under Obama is the Bush program on steroids.

Good luck with that.

The NSA system and USAPATRIOT Act were born to be put on steroids, fool.

this isnt evidence

 

[Plasmaball]

Better late than never, I suppose.

Some of us on the left tried to generate opposition to the Patriot Act when it was first proposed, but few on the right were interested. They were scared of "Islamoterrorist's" and trusted George Bush.

Now that our warnings have been proven correct, they've suddenly seen the light. Or, is it just that Obama is now involved in doing the same things Bush was doing and that's bad?

I hate to say it but.....we told you so.

Now...maybe we can all get together and eliminate the Patriot Act.




Laura Ingraham: Ignoring Patriot Act ?a mistake? - Hadas Gold - POLITICO.com

lol, sure they regret it. Just 2 more rightwing hacks trying to find an angle they can attack the President on this without looking like partisan hypocrites.

same for you-


is now the time you admit obama is a rank opportunist hypocrite?

No i don't think he is. It doesn't matter who won the white house. These programs where going to stay period.

 

[AmyNation]

lol, sure they regret it. Just 2 more rightwing hacks trying to find an angle they can attack the President on this without looking like partisan hypocrites.

same for you-


is now the time you admit obama is a rank opportunist hypocrite?

No i don't think he is. It doesn't matter who won the white house. These programs where going to stay period.

If whoever won the White House denounced the PA before winning and then quietly continued the practice, that makes them a hypocrite. No matter the letter after their name.

 

[Zona]

There's a different between going after TERRORIST and a massive spying on the population of this country. BIG DIFFERENCE.

Its digferent because Obama is doing it. fucking hypocrite.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Do you Bush supporters of yesteryear honestly believe that all of us have come down with amnesia?

Why don't you people just defend Obama the way you defended Bush on these matters? Why the hypocrisy on that???

 

[Oddball]

Evidence, please, the NSA program under Obama is the Bush program on steroids.

Good luck with that.

The NSA system and USAPATRIOT Act were born to be put on steroids, fool.

this isnt evidence

ORLY?

Name the federal program that has become smaller, less costly and less intrusive.

 

[Kondor3]

There's a different between going after TERRORIST and a massive spying on the population of this country. BIG DIFFERENCE.

Irrelevant.

The USAPATRIOT Act was born and destined to be abused.

Agreed.

The best defense against abuse of a law (so construed so that it almost invites abuse) is not to pass the law in the first place.

The Second-best defense is to repeal the phukker as quickly as can be managed.

Beginning by firing (not re-electing) those who voted for its extension.

But we won't do that... we don't have that in us any longer... the spine has been bred-out of the voting public.

 

[Trajan]

Bullshit. I was there for that debate.

Well, heres a new angle.

If it were so bad during Bush, why are Liberals defending their behavior now? How come Obama didn't do anything to stop this? Instead, he has chosen to abuse this program. It's isn't bullshit, Obama took advantage of it. Obama could have stopped this right here and now.

Now, prove me wrong.

I won't deny that and I won't give Obama a pass for it. What I'd like to know is why this wasn't an issue for the right when George Bush did it? Why is it suddenly a "crisis" when before, it was perfectly fine?

1) becasue it got exploded in the news a week after the war 'whose name cannot be spoken' ( the war on terror) we were told is basically over and we need to deconstruct the laws, and mechanisms put in place to fight it.....you did see or read his speech last week...right? BUT he got caught with the leak of the program NOW afterward, and only now does he decide we need to talk about it.....hello...

2) apparently there is some severe hypocrisy going on in the right too, no doubt. I don't give them a pass either, but this thread is not an example of it, theres far worse, ingraham said she made a mistake by not paying attention, a come to jesus moment? maybe, or maybe she trying to slide out of her past stance...thats fine if you wish to see it that way, but she did say it was a mistake....

3) each and every time a goper gets caught with his pants down, the media goes bananas, and leftys here to, trumpeting the goper as a member of the family values set who then gets caught In flagrante delicto, hes a 'massive hypocrite' ok.... if thats the paradigm and apparently it is, then Obama is every bit the massive hypocrite too, example-



Senator Obama, 2007 'weeping surveillance of Americans', in the name of battling terrorism is "a false choice between the liberties we cherish and the security we demand."

"I will provide our intelligence and law enforcement agencies with the tools they need to track and take out the terrorists without undermining our Constitution and our freedom," he said in a speech then. "No more national security letters to spy on citizens who are not suspected of a crime. No more tracking citizens who do nothing more than protest a misguided war. No more ignoring the law when it is inconvenient. That is not who we are. And it is not what is necessary to defeat the terrorists."


Analysis: Obama's agenda scorched in firestorm



I have to say I sppted the pat act. I do now, but I never signed on to credit card transaction collections, or the massive size of this data collection, if I missed that memo back in 06-07 ( and apparently according to GT's post I did) I deserve what I get, but, then again, there is that slippery slope, a metaphor that the left used to use every other week as to 'right wing imperial presidency overreach', obama was supposed to fix that.......apparently he has not fixed it, hes doubled down on it.

 

[Trajan]

There's a different between going after TERRORIST and a massive spying on the population of this country. BIG DIFFERENCE.

Irrelevant.

The USAPATRIOT Act was born and destined to be abused.

I guess in the end thats true, they do sunset ala the request for renewal in April....they decided we still need it and took advantage of a whole new design as in "Prism"...

 

[Trajan]

lol, sure they regret it. Just 2 more rightwing hacks trying to find an angle they can attack the President on this without looking like partisan hypocrites.

same for you-


is now the time you admit obama is a rank opportunist hypocrite?

No i don't think he is. It doesn't matter who won the white house. These programs where going to stay period.

you've joined the I lack integrity club, gold membership.

 

[Trajan]

Do you Bush supporters of yesteryear honestly believe that all of us have come down with amnesia?

Why don't you people just defend Obama the way you defended Bush on these matters? Why the hypocrisy on that???

still trying huh,

you just cannot do it, look dopey this Alinsky shit doesn't work when you HAVE THE POWER....

I don't have an issue with it, thats third time I said it, now your turn-

Obama is a hypocrite- yes, no?

 

[Antares]

Let me show what overwhelming evidence looks like as I show these idiots their "steroids" claim is full of shit.

Steroids? Let me show you steroids.

2007: FBI Violations May Number 3,000, Official Says

The Justice Department's inspector general told a committee of angry House members yesterday that the FBI may have violated the law or government policies as many as 3,000 times since 2003 as agents secretly collected the telephone, bank and credit card records of U.S. citizens and foreign nationals residing here.

Inspector General Glenn A. Fine said that according to the FBI's own estimate, as many as 600 of these violations could be "cases of serious misconduct" involving the improper use of "national security letters" to compel telephone companies, banks and credit institutions to produce records.

Bush breaking the law on a massive scale.







Let's seeeeee...what else. Oh yeah. Bush thought he could detain American citizens without habeas corpus:
Hamdi v. Rumsfeld

Hamdi v. Rumsfeld, 542 U.S. 507 (2004), is a United States Supreme Court case in which the Court recognized the power of the government to detain enemy combatants, including U.S. citizens, but ruled that detainees who are U.S. citizens must have the rights of due process, and the ability to challenge their enemy combatant status before an impartial authority.

It reversed the dismissal by a lower court of a habeas corpus petition brought on behalf of Yaser Esam Hamdi, a U.S. citizen who was being detained indefinitely as an "illegal enemy combatant" after being captured in Afghanistan in 2001.

So there's solid evidence Bush was violating the Constitution.






And let us not forget the torture. Waterboarding and "enhanced interrogations".








Speaking of habeas corpus and violating the Constitution yet again: Boumediene et al v. Bush









And for those who were under the gravely mistaken impression Bush never spied on Americans the way Obama is being hit for this week:

2006: NSA has massive database of Americans' phone calls

Among the big telecommunications companies, only Qwest has refused to help the NSA, the sources said. According to multiple sources, Qwest declined to participate because it was uneasy about the legal implications of handing over customer information to the government without warrants.

Qwest's refusal to participate has left the NSA with a hole in its database. Based in Denver, Qwest provides local phone service to 14 million customers in 14 states in the West and Northwest. But AT&T and Verizon also provide some services — primarily long-distance and wireless — to people who live in Qwest's region. Therefore, they can provide the NSA with at least some access in that area.

After searching your phone records, Bush asked Congress to give retroactive immunity to the telecommunications companies which turned over your records:

The Bush administration maintains that the changes are consistent with FISA's intent--that targeting foreign communications doesn't require a warrant--and that a warrant is still required for "targeting a person in the United States." But civil-liberties advocates argue that the government is creating a loophole to monitor Americans' e-mails and phone calls to overseas contacts without the intended court approval.

The new law also immunizes from legal liability the private companies that assist the government with surveillance going forward, but Bush repeated existing calls for making that policy retroactive as well.

"It's particularly important for Congress to provide meaningful liability protection to those companies now facing multibillion-dollar lawsuits only because they are believed to have assisted in efforts to defend our nation, following the 9/11 attacks," Bush said.

The Electronic Frontier Foundation, which has sued AT&T over its allegedly illegal cooperation with the government, says references to the crippling liability posed by such suits suggest that the scope of the wiretapping is "massive."

Congress passed the law, giving them that immunity.

Look at the lengths you'll go to obfuscate your ass beating kid.

ALL citizens are now being "targeted", no getting around that.

Didya wanna talk about the "secret interpretation"?

 

[Antares]

Let me show what overwhelming evidence looks like as I show these idiots their "steroids" claim is full of shit.

*cut for length*

Dude. We get it. Look, normally we have nice conversations, but you're trying way too hard to prove something that doesn't matter.

The fact alone that they both did it, and the government continues to support it, is all I need to put any differences between all of us aside and call an end to this bullshit.

Some people DON'T get it. They continue to make bullshit claims over and over and over. I'm going to keep kicking them in the balls until they DO get it.


It is way, way, way past time for people to wake up to the fact the piss they have been drinking is poisoning them and this country. They shovel the manufactured bullshit into their mouths like it's caviar.

You aren't intelligent enough to kick anyone in the balls kid.

You just aren't up to it.

 

[blackhawk]

Simple question for the left are you as upset over Obama continuing and expanding the programs started under Bush as you say you were when Bush started them? Right now you all seem as content with what Obama has done as you say the right was with Bush given that don't you think your bashing the right for being upset at Obama but not Bush is more than a little hypocritical?

You are making a shit ton of wrong assumptions in a lame attempt to pull off some turnaround.

And you failed to answer the simple question either you are or you aren't if you are fine if your not your just as big a hypocrite as you claim the right is being now.

 

[blackhawk]

Simple question for the left are you as upset over Obama continuing and expanding the programs started under Bush as you say you were when Bush started them? Right now you all seem as content with what Obama has done as you say the right was with Bush given that don't you think your bashing the right for being upset at Obama but not Bush is more than a little hypocritical?

I can't speak for everyone else, but I don't like that Obama is doing it and I didn't like that Bush was doing it.

How about you? Were you as angry at Bush as you are with Obama?

As long as your consistent in your opposition good I was never against it under Bush nor am I under Obama my only problem with Obama on this is his bashing Bush for it then continuing the program in his administration it's not his use of the program that bothers me it's the hypocrisy.