Instead of the question, how about a poll on the subject of gun rights.

[YoursTruly]

Lets rephrase that poll question to would you support Ramo's right to buy keep and bear arms if you knew for absolute sure he was going to committ mass murder. If you answer yes to the current poll question you are accused of supporting mass murder if you answer no your are accused of standing in the way of potential new gun laws that could be overly restrictive and maybe even unconstitutional.

I do not support Ramos or anyone like him having access to a gun. Any kind of gun.

I'm pro life.

 

[blackhawk]

I do not support Ramos or anyone like him having access to a gun. Any kind of gun.

I'm pro life.

Of course you don't with hindsight no one would but without knowing what we know now would anyone here oppossed him buying a gun? If so without the value of hindsight on what grounds would oppossing his buying a gun be based on?

 

[AZrailwhale]

I voted yes, but only if there was nothing legally precluding him from purchasing one.

The problem with your question is that it's asked from a position of hindsight. Of course, anyone who knew what he would do if sold a gun would find a reason, regardless of how weak, to keep him from buying a gun.

Given everything that was, there was no legal reason to not sell him a gun. That's the unfortunate, yet inescapable, reality...

He had a history of mental instability that should have resulted in incarceration in a asylum.

 

[YoursTruly]

Of course you don't with hindsight no one would but without knowing what we know now would anyone here oppossed him buying a gun? If so without the value of hindsight on what grounds would oppossing his buying a gun be based on?

I've never supported psycho's having guns. Even those that are borderline.
I know some very decent folks who I support 110% having guns.

It's not a hindsight issue. It's a right now or tomorrow issue.

People that I know nothing about, like Ramos before he did what he did, I'd never support his right because I didn't even know him. I don't blindly support people. I do not have faith in humanity. I have faith in me and mine.

 

[YoursTruly]

He had a history of mental instability that should have resulted in incarceration in a asylum.

You are correct. But because of our lax justice system, and our states inability to spend money on important things, mental health treatment isn't an option for some. And another HUGE factor, families not reporting their own of having violent tendencies because it'll mess up their future. Most commonly, kids grow out of their aggression stage when real life kicks in.
Those that can't handle it, kill themselves. Others kill others. But for the most part, kids just grow out of it.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

I do not support Ramos or anyone like him having access to a gun. Any kind of gun.

I'm pro life.

How exactly could you guarantee Ramos could not legally buy a firearm without infringing on the rights of every single American?

 

[Big Bend Texas]

You are correct. But because of our lax justice system, and our states inability to spend money on important things, mental health treatment isn't an option for some. And another HUGE factor, families not reporting their own of having violent tendencies because it'll mess up their future. Most commonly, kids grow out of their aggression stage when real life kicks in.
Those that can't handle it, kill themselves. Others kill others. But for the most part, kids just grow out of it.

You don't need to spend a dime on mental health care to have someone committed or deemed ineligible by a court.

 

[blackhawk]

I've never supported psycho's having guns. Even those that are borderline.
I know some very decent folks who I support 110% having guns.

It's not a hindsight issue. It's a right now or tomorrow issue.

People that I know nothing about, like Ramos before he did what he did, I'd never support his right because I didn't even know him. I don't blindly support people. I do not have faith in humanity. I have faith in me and mine.

Then it's a very good thing for the vast majority of people that you don't know that you don't have the authority to make such a decision.

 

[YoursTruly]

Then it's a very good thing for the vast majority of people that you don't know that you don't have the authority to make such a decision.

It is. I have trust issues. I trust animals over humans 100%. But this is why we have government. (which I don't trust either) Especially the left.
I do not trust that they would come up with a fair system that would include decent gun owners and their right to bear arms. Or even give them a fair shot at a fair psych exam to prove they're not a psycho.

 

[YoursTruly]

You don't need to spend a dime on mental health care to have someone committed or deemed ineligible by a court.

You're getting into territory that I know nothing about. I haven't heard about an insane asylum in many many years.

 

[YoursTruly]

How exactly could you guarantee Ramos could not legally buy a firearm without infringing on the rights of every single American?

Individual psych exams might be a good place to start. It may not be the best solution. But that's what discussions are for. Coming up with better idea's to reduce or solve problems. Ignoring this one will only cause more lives lost. I'm pro life, so this conversation interests me.

A psych exam, by an unbias psychologist. Someone who's not anti gun or a gun nut. Someone who's not a radical lefty or a radical republican.
If the applicant fails, he/she would have the right to an appeal and retake the exam with another psychologist.

When I was Ramos's age, I caught my fiancé with a co worker. He had to have a few surgeries. And I got in some pretty steep trouble over it. A few years of probation and an anger management class, plus a lot of restitution. The probation officer had to send me to get a drug and alcohol evaluation test. I didn't drink or do drugs. But it was a state requirement that I at least take the exam.
During the test I started coming into questions that no matter how I answered, lead to me being a drunk/druggy.
True or false: "When I drink or do drugs, it causes problems at home."<<<< I'll never forget that one. It was my final straw.
So I raised little fuss, but never raised my voice, and told the lady that the tests were rigged. And of course I failed it.
Come to find out, those that failed had to take drug and alcohol classes, regardless if they drank or did drugs, giving by the same people who gave these tests. So the more they failed, the more money they made.
After discussing all this with my probation officer, and explaining how I've passed every UA I'd ever been given, and inviting her to my house, anytime she wanted, unannounced, to give me a UA, she sent me back to the same place for the same test.
LMAO.. The mood was different when I got there. I left all the same questions blank, as I did before. And passed. Did they get filled in after I left? Who knows. But I know I, and my probation officer knew that I was going to fight them and expose them if they failed me again.

The point. During the discussion of how to keep the corruption out of this, there needs to be safeguards to ensure that decent folks aren't put through the ringer because someone is going to profit from failing people who are mentally fine. And a way to expose those who try.
This would ensure an almost failsafe way of allowing decent gun owners to continue to exercise their 2A. < Extremely important.

 

[Canon Shooter]

He had a history of mental instability that should have resulted in incarceration in a asylum.

Exactly what "mental instability" did he suffer which should've, in your opinion, resulted in him being committed?

 

[YoursTruly]

You don't need to spend a dime on mental health care to have someone committed or deemed ineligible by a court.

But I did find this. (Thanks for bring this up)

Although psychiatric hospitals still exist, the dearth of long-term care options for the mentally ill in the U.S. is acute, the researchers say. State-run psychiatric facilities house 45,000 patients, less than a tenth of the number of patients they did in 1955. With the doubling of the U.S. population, the researchers write, this is a 95 percent decline.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

But I did find this. (Thanks for bring this up)

Although psychiatric hospitals still exist, the dearth of long-term care options for the mentally ill in the U.S. is acute, the researchers say. State-run psychiatric facilities house 45,000 patients, less than a tenth of the number of patients they did in 1955. With the doubling of the U.S. population, the researchers write, this is a 95 percent decline.

This doesn't support your claim at all.

If you are dangerous to yourselves or others you can be committed without your family having to spend a dime to do so.

If the police and courts would simply both do their jobs those too unstable to safely possess firearms can be declared mentally unstable and remove their right to buy firearms legally under existing law.

 

[YoursTruly]

This doesn't support your claim at all.

If you are dangerous to yourselves or others you can be committed without your family having to spend a dime to do so.

If the police and courts would simply both do their jobs those too unstable to safely possess firearms can be declared mentally unstable and remove their right to buy firearms legally under existing law.

I'm sure there's a level or degree of mental illness that would disqualify someone from a mental institution, but still make them a threat risk to society. Especially since the state of Texas spends so little on mental institutions, they've raised the bar so high only those who slobber and shit their pants without even knowing it are in there.

The police and the courts did their job, as it was lined out. Ramos was a threat at one point. Apparently he served what ever sentence the judge handed down and when he turned 18, it was over with. His threats back then, that got him in trouble, apparently were just threats.
Obviously now we know he needed more treatment. This is where the system is lacking.
The psych test could also evaluate any prior incidences, regardless of turning 18 or not.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

I'm sure there's a level or degree of mental illness that would disqualify someone from a mental institution, but still make them a threat risk to society. Especially since the state of Texas spends so little on mental institutions, they've raised the bar so high only those who slobber and shit their pants without even knowing it are in there.

The police and the courts did their job, as it was lined out. Ramos was a threat at one point. Apparently he served what ever sentence the judge handed down and when he turned 18, it was over with. His threats back then, that got him in trouble, apparently were just threats.
Obviously now we know he needed more treatment. This is where the system is lacking.
The psych test could also evaluate any prior incidences, regardless of turning 18 or not.

You are fabricating BS.

Ramos was never declared by any court ineligible and if he was deemed to be dangerously mentally impaired he could have been.

There's no evidence anywhere he ever sought and was denied care or that he had demonstrated such a mental defect as to be too dangerous to be allowed to possess or purchase firearms.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

The police and the courts did their job, as it was lined out. Ramos was a threat at one point. Apparently he served what ever sentence the judge handed down and when he turned 18, it was over with. His threats back then, that got him in trouble, apparently were just threats.

This is an outright lie, he had never been arrested much less adjudicated as mentally defective at any point in his life.

Police dispute claims Uvalde gunman was arrested for prior school shooting threats

In a Fox News interview Friday, Texas Rep. Tony Gonzales claimed the Uvalde gunman, 18-year-old Salvador Ramos, was arrested four years ago for threatening a...

www.dallasnews.com

 

[OKTexas]

Do you support Ramos's right to buy, keep and bear arms? (don't be chicken)​

We have a system of checks and balances, when the checks fail, there's no balance and bad things happen. That's life in a free country.

.

 

[flan327]

Same, same.

If nothing happened, allowing a Confederate sympathizer in close proximity to Lincoln is a moot point ... but after he assassinated Lincoln...who would allow him to be there in retrospect?

I would

I don’t want to live in an alternate universe

 

[CommieKillingMommy]

Do you support Ramos's right to buy, keep and bear arms? (don't be chicken)​

Who the fuck are you to decide which Americans have which rights? Sit down and shut the fuck up.