CDZ Intelligence

[presonorek]

Is it POSSIBLE to have a debate without generalizing and name calling?

Just wondering!

Yes. It is very possible to surrender the debate and let the losing debater win by choosing the allowed tactics.

In debates you usually use the tactics that works whether the opponent approves or not. Debate is war. If you can convince multitudes to think your way by using generalizations and name calling then you should.

The problem with that bit of thinking is that it assumes debate is just a game, where one side wins and one side loses.

I suspect few people are actually interested in a meaningful discussion they actually share their ideas honestly, without arguing with each other, as if there are points to win.

If debate is neither honest nor fair, what is the point of it? As for your last line, that's the thinking of a politician, and a lot of people hate politicians because time and again they're shameless liars who manipulate the stupid masses.

That is how a democracy functions. You lie and manipulate people into voting for you. The alternative is telling the truth, letting the people make their own decision and losing the election. See the 2008 presidential debates. McCain basically gave us a letter of reference for Obama. You may think there is no point in winning but I say there is no point in losing. The winners get to write history and create the future. The losers get to watch in disgust. I'd much rather win. Losing sounds pointless and painful.

 

[presonorek]

Is it POSSIBLE to have a debate without generalizing and name calling?

Just wondering!

I've wondered the same thing since day one. But, there're way too many childish idiots on here to have any hope of that ever happening. In addition, the site admin and mods encourage and condone the silly pathetic immature idiot members.

What is wrong? Does this website not allow you to silence your opponents by flagging their post and crying to the admins about your hurt feelings?

I personally think your opponents should be allowed to talk too. It shouldnt just be your opinions and an amen corner.

Pleeeeeeeez ... really? .......... obviously you're reading way more into what I said that was actually there. ............ that is so silly, honestly. You missed the point completely.

Nope. I have seen it. People use admin powers to silence their opponents under the banner of politeness. Maybe you have never reported a person but I doubt that. Your tone insist that being a tattle tale is your nuclear bomb just in case you need. I'm reading between the lines. Only you know if you ever ratted somebody out for being uncivil. I would be willing to bet that you have.

 

[Missourian]

I thought winning hearts and minds to your point of view was the purpose of debate.

How do you win hearts and minds though deceit and name calling?

Instead of achieving your goal, you alienate those who could otherwise be allies in other fights.

 

[Sonny Clark]

Is it POSSIBLE to have a debate without generalizing and name calling?

Just wondering!

I've wondered the same thing since day one. But, there're way too many childish idiots on here to have any hope of that ever happening. In addition, the site admin and mods encourage and condone the silly pathetic immature idiot members.

What is wrong? Does this website not allow you to silence your opponents by flagging their post and crying to the admins about your hurt feelings?

I personally think your opponents should be allowed to talk too. It shouldnt just be your opinions and an amen corner.

Pleeeeeeeez ... really? .......... obviously you're reading way more into what I said that was actually there. ............ that is so silly, honestly. You missed the point completely.

Nope. I have seen it. People use admin powers to silence their opponents under the banner of politeness. Maybe you have never reported a person but I doubt that. Your tone insist that being a tattle tale is your nuclear bomb just in case you need. I'm reading between the lines. Only you know if you ever ratted somebody out for being uncivil. I would be willing to bet that you have.

Really pathetic. Damn ............... try not to assume so much here, please. You don't know shit about me. By the way, how much did you want to bet? I'll be glad to take your money. Name an amount. We'll make the bet, then you go ask the mods and admin if Sonny Clark has ever reported anyone, or snitched anyone. Ask anyone on this site. Now, how much is that bet for? Don't be shy. Don't back out. You opened your mouth, now cover your ass. ......... damn, some people .......... where in the fuck do these people come from ........... Geez.

 

[Wake]

How do you win hearts and minds though deceit and name calling?

Unfortunately, torrent does have a point.

That is how America gets its presidents.

Politicians lie and deceive: stuff happens.

 

[presonorek]

...

Bonzi, intelligence is the acquisition and application of knowledge and skills. It's your ability to absorb and utilize information.

The title of your thread does not match in any way to the content of your post. You should have named it 'civility,' or, if you keep the original title, make a post about actual intelligence. In general, more than some people are not intelligent, and don't really understand what it even is, and think it's something it isn't.

Intelligence in no way equates to being civil and not name-calling. One can be highly intelligent, highly vicious, and highly rude, among many other combinations out there. When you speak of generalization, you may be better off tying it into the concept of 'reasoning.' And for name-calling, 'wisdom.' It is not very wise to call others names, nor is it reasonable to generalize.

Intelligence is not synonymous with name-calling and generalization. These issues are distinct and are far more complicated than we think.

In 2008 Obama publicly told McCain that if he took the public campaign money then he would too. That would mean their fund raising would have been limited. McCain took the money and Obama laughed. He said, "Ha ha sucker." Then he continued to create one of the largest campaign funds in history up to that point.

Yeah McCain supporters would say that was dirty but Obama supporters would call it effective. There is nothing shameful in being effective except to the losing side.

 

[Wake]

Mind you, though it gets things done, it's still deceitful, manipulative, unfair, and wrong.

When voting for the lesser of two evils, evil gets elected. We deserve what we get.

 

[Wake]

And to clear things up, politicians on all sides are lying, unfair, manipulative bastards.

Implying otherwise in this thread is not recommended.

 

[presonorek]

Is it POSSIBLE to have a debate without generalizing and name calling?

Just wondering!

I've wondered the same thing since day one. But, there're way too many childish idiots on here to have any hope of that ever happening. In addition, the site admin and mods encourage and condone the silly pathetic immature idiot members.

What is wrong? Does this website not allow you to silence your opponents by flagging their post and crying to the admins about your hurt feelings?

I personally think your opponents should be allowed to talk too. It shouldnt just be your opinions and an amen corner.

Pleeeeeeeez ... really? .......... obviously you're reading way more into what I said that was actually there. ............ that is so silly, honestly. You missed the point completely.

Nope. I have seen it. People use admin powers to silence their opponents under the banner of politeness. Maybe you have never reported a person but I doubt that. Your tone insist that being a tattle tale is your nuclear bomb just in case you need. I'm reading between the lines. Only you know if you ever ratted somebody out for being uncivil. I would be willing to bet that you have.

Really pathetic. Damn ............... try not to assume so much here, please. You don't know shit about me. By the way, how much did you want to bet? I'll be glad to take your money. Name an amount. We'll make the bet, then you go ask the mods and admin if Sonny Clark has ever reported anyone, or snitched anyone. Ask anyone on this site. Now, how much is that bet for? Don't be shy. Don't back out. You opened your mouth, now cover your ass. ......... damn, some people .......... where in the fuck do these people come from ........... Geez.

Alright. Ill back peddle a little bit. What did you mean when you said that the admins allow and encourage childishness?

 

[Missourian]

Unfortunately, torrent does have a point.

That is how America gets its presidents.

Politicians lie and deceive: stuff happens.

True enough, but how many times has it backfired?

Take infrastructure spending for example. Who is truly opposed to it? Very few.

Now, who opposes it because they don't trust Obama and the Democrats, or have been alienate by Obama and the Democrats?

I'd say more than the lions share.

And had Bush proposed it, the folks that are for it now would be against it, and those against it would be for it.

 

[Wake]

I'd say it works perfectly, because each and every one of those politicians are manipulative liars, and at the end of it all one of them still manages to get elected. 'Stupid masses' includes both liberals and conservatives. The masses being lied to has been effective for thousands of years, and this includes not just politics.

 

[Missourian]

How do you win hearts and minds though deceit and name calling?

Instead of achieving your goal, you alienate those who could otherwise be allies in other fights.

FTR, this comment related more to the interactions on our message board than to politicians.

 

[Wake]

How do you win hearts and minds though deceit and name calling?

Instead of achieving your goal, you alienate those who could otherwise be allies in other fights.

FTR, this comment related more to the interactions on our message board than to politicians.

Being a realist, I always hated those stupid phrases and platitudes. Makes my inner George Carlin raise its grizzled head.

"Winning hearts and minds."

Once you win them, what do you do with them? For one, the heart's just a muscle to pump blood. It isn't some corporeal excuse for another imaginative excuse like the soul. I don't want to win a heart, unless you eat it or use it, and unless you're an ancient Aztec, you probably would rather win something else, like a two-week vacation in Aruba. Mind? No. That's another made-up concept by men, sorta like rights, morals, and other imaginary things. We made them up, and for 'good' reasons.

If you can persuade other people here to what you believe in, great, you now only have one more small connection to that anonymous person you don't even know. Lying [and being caught], and name-calling don't really help foster that endeavor.

 

[Sonny Clark]

I've wondered the same thing since day one. But, there're way too many childish idiots on here to have any hope of that ever happening. In addition, the site admin and mods encourage and condone the silly pathetic immature idiot members.

What is wrong? Does this website not allow you to silence your opponents by flagging their post and crying to the admins about your hurt feelings?

I personally think your opponents should be allowed to talk too. It shouldnt just be your opinions and an amen corner.

Pleeeeeeeez ... really? .......... obviously you're reading way more into what I said that was actually there. ............ that is so silly, honestly. You missed the point completely.

Nope. I have seen it. People use admin powers to silence their opponents under the banner of politeness. Maybe you have never reported a person but I doubt that. Your tone insist that being a tattle tale is your nuclear bomb just in case you need. I'm reading between the lines. Only you know if you ever ratted somebody out for being uncivil. I would be willing to bet that you have.

Really pathetic. Damn ............... try not to assume so much here, please. You don't know shit about me. By the way, how much did you want to bet? I'll be glad to take your money. Name an amount. We'll make the bet, then you go ask the mods and admin if Sonny Clark has ever reported anyone, or snitched anyone. Ask anyone on this site. Now, how much is that bet for? Don't be shy. Don't back out. You opened your mouth, now cover your ass. ......... damn, some people .......... where in the fuck do these people come from ........... Geez.

Alright. Ill back peddle a little bit. What did you mean when you said that the admins allow and encourage childishness?

I meant exactly what I said, and said what I meant. Look, the admin ( owners ) are in this for money. They sell ad space. The value of ad space is determined by internet traffic a site generates. In other words, the more members, the more traffic here, the more valuable the ad space. This is just common knowledge with any web site. It's business. The internet is business. It's all about money.

So, the site admin ( owners ) wants to attract members, not run them off. They want the activity, the traffic, and the revenue that traffic generates. They are willing to allow anyone, within reason, to become a member, say anything, and exhibit any kind of behavior within a few loosely defined rules. They do have rules. They will ban members. But, they consider personal attacks, name calling, childish silly behavior, a money generator. This site gives people a place to vent, to release frustrations and anger, and if they so desire, to do so at the expense of other members. The site admin ( owners ) couldn't care less about civil conversations and friendly debates. This site is not about exchanging views and opinions concerning our everyday problems and the sad shameful state this country has fallen to. This site is about MONEY, plain and simple. All internet web sites are about MONEY.

Questions ???

 

[Missourian]

I'd say it works perfectly, because each and every one of those politicians are manipulative liars, and at the end of it all one of them still manages to get elected. 'Stupid masses' includes both liberals and conservatives. The masses being lied to has been effective for thousands of years, and this includes not just politics.

We are getting further and further afield from the OP.

Politicians have lying, obfuscation and deflection honed to a razor sharp edge of misdirection.

I believe the OP is more narrowly focused on the debate dialog exchanged here.

 

[PredFan]

There is no point. The left will never ever change their minds. It isn't about truth, or logic, or reason with them. Their only concern is winning, and if they have to lie, cheat, abuse, derail, or otherwise confuse the discussion, they will do it.

I just point at them and laugh, everything else is a total waste.

I thought winning hearts and minds to your point of view was the purpose of debate.

Sure it is for some, but that will never happen with progressives for the reasons I stated.

 

[Missourian]

How do you win hearts and minds though deceit and name calling?

Instead of achieving your goal, you alienate those who could otherwise be allies in other fights.

FTR, this comment related more to the interactions on our message board than to politicians.

Being a realist, I always hated those stupid phrases and platitudes. Makes my inner George Carlin raise its grizzled head.

"Winning hearts and minds."

Once you win them, what do you do with them? For one, the heart's just a muscle to pump blood. It isn't some corporeal excuse for another imaginative excuse like the soul. I don't want to win a heart, unless you eat it or use it, and unless you're an ancient Aztec, you probably would rather win something else, like a two-week vacation in Aruba. Mind? No. That's another made-up concept by men, sorta like rights, morals, and other imaginary things. We made them up, and for 'good' reasons.

If you can persuade other people here to what you believe in, great, you now only have one more small connection to that anonymous person you don't even know. Lying [and being caught], and name-calling don't really help foster that endeavor.

I suppose it is more of a philosophy than a figure of speech.

You can build walls or you can build doors.

If you are a wall builder, you just make thing that much harder for those artisans of the portal.

 

[PredFan]

There is no point. The left will never ever change their minds. It isn't about truth, or logic, or reason with them. Their only concern is winning, and if they have to lie, cheat, abuse, derail, or otherwise confuse the discussion, they will do it.

I just point at them and laugh, everything else is a total waste.

Ironic post.

Did you do that on purpose?

Do you know what irony is? Did you miss the part where I stated that all I do is point and laugh? Do you understand what you read at all?

 

[PredFan]

There is no point. The left will never ever change their minds. It isn't about truth, or logic, or reason with them. Their only concern is winning, and if they have to lie, cheat, abuse, derail, or otherwise confuse the discussion, they will do it.

I just point at them and laugh, everything else is a total waste.

I thought winning hearts and minds to your point of view was the purpose of debate.

Maybe debate and intelligence don't belong together....
I think (IMHO) that an "intelligent debate" should be won without generalizations (which would/should be called out) and CERTAINLY without name calling, and subtle wording used to make people think negatively of the other person. Just the FACTS! Make your case with FACTS, not psychology....

If that's not "debate", well, I guess it's just discussion and Wake was correct in his post .....

It all sounds good on paper. Try that! Good luck.

 

[presonorek]

What is wrong? Does this website not allow you to silence your opponents by flagging their post and crying to the admins about your hurt feelings?

I personally think your opponents should be allowed to talk too. It shouldnt just be your opinions and an amen corner.

Pleeeeeeeez ... really? .......... obviously you're reading way more into what I said that was actually there. ............ that is so silly, honestly. You missed the point completely.

Nope. I have seen it. People use admin powers to silence their opponents under the banner of politeness. Maybe you have never reported a person but I doubt that. Your tone insist that being a tattle tale is your nuclear bomb just in case you need. I'm reading between the lines. Only you know if you ever ratted somebody out for being uncivil. I would be willing to bet that you have.

Really pathetic. Damn ............... try not to assume so much here, please. You don't know shit about me. By the way, how much did you want to bet? I'll be glad to take your money. Name an amount. We'll make the bet, then you go ask the mods and admin if Sonny Clark has ever reported anyone, or snitched anyone. Ask anyone on this site. Now, how much is that bet for? Don't be shy. Don't back out. You opened your mouth, now cover your ass. ......... damn, some people .......... where in the fuck do these people come from ........... Geez.

Alright. Ill back peddle a little bit. What did you mean when you said that the admins allow and encourage childishness?

I meant exactly what I said, and said what I meant. Look, the admin ( owners ) are in this for money. They sell ad space. The value of ad space is determined by internet traffic a site generates. In other words, the more members, the more traffic here, the more valuable the ad space. This is just common knowledge with any web site. It's business. The internet is business. It's all about money.

So, the site admin ( owners ) wants to attract members, not run them off. They want the activity, the traffic, and the revenue that traffic generates. They are willing to allow anyone, within reason, to become a member, say anything, and exhibit any kind of behavior within a few loosely defined rules. They do have rules. They will ban members. But, they consider personal attacks, name calling, childish silly behavior, a money generator. This site gives people a place to vent, to release frustrations and anger, and if they so desire, to do so at the expense of other members. The site admin ( owners ) couldn't care less about civil conversations and friendly debates. This site is not about exchanging views and opinions concerning our everyday problems and the sad shameful state this country has fallen to. This site is about MONEY, plain and simple. All internet web sites are about MONEY.

Questions ???

No questions. It sounds perfect. It sounds kind of like heaven.