Iraq War veteran critically injured after being hit with a grenade by Oakland Police

[earlycuyler]

Thats your opinion based 100% on the limited footage you will look at. Neither you or anyone else have presented any evidence proving the police acted outside of the law. You have your mind made up, you had it made up, so stop the bull shit and dont try to explain it. You dont like the cops, and they could (most likely do) have hours of video showing all the angles tho OWS and media cameramen missed, or edited and you wouldn't change your mind.

Results count. If you ever served in the military or were in a leadership position you'd know what I am talking about. As it is, I've stated several times that we should wait until the investigation is complete before drawing conclusions. I noted that you never agreed with that opinion nor stated it yourself even once.

First, dont pull that "I served, you didn't so you dont know" bull shit with me. But I did, and have an idea what you are driving at so just stop that now. So Its on you to prove your point. Where is the Governor with heads on a platter? Where is internal affairs ? In light of Oakland PD's reputation for using excessive force why have we not heard anything about the cop being suspended ? As for what I have stated, I brought quotes and links to support them. You have brought none. And just so you know, here is where he stands on the issue as of today. Tell us if he seems worried about the leadership in Oakland.

Gov. Jerry Brown occupied with his pension plan

Gov. Jerry Brown occupied with his pension plan



Friday, October 28, 2011


He was Oakland's mayor for eight years and has lived there for more than a decade, but Gov. Jerry Brown has had nothing to say about the Occupy Oakland protests that have been roiling the city and attracting international attention.

That's right: At a news conference Tuesday, we asked Brown to comment on Occupy Oakland, where a violent clash between police and protesters this week left an Iraqi war veteran with a skull fracture. Brown held the news conference to roll out his pension plan. And he wasn't going to be taken off message - even by the events in his hometown.

"I don't want to step on my story at this point," he said. "I've been advised."

 

[MikeK]

You are definitely not a lawyer........ Are you even suggesting that a City, County, or State cannot require, by law, that a group apply for a permit for a rally? Are you saying that it cannot be illegal to camp in a public square? Are you really trying to make these arguments?

Because I do believe you will fail badly........

Presuming your point is valid, and presuming Oakland police officers are properly trained, specifically what method of crowd dispersion and removal or arrest of those who fail to comply with a local ordinance do you believe is necessary and acceptable?

Based on what I've heard from several different observers is objects were thrown at the police from the rear of the gathering and by unknown persons. Those standing in the front ranks did nothing of the kind. But one young man who was passively standing in a front rank was subjected to potentially lethal force, i.e., struck in the head by a projectile fired from the police ranks.

Do you consider that appropriate and competent police action under the circumstances? Or do you believe it was excessive and unnecessary force?

 

[Lakhota]

Occupy Wall Street: Many Cities Leaving Protesters Alone [LATEST UPDATES]

 

[Intense]

You are definitely not a lawyer........ Are you even suggesting that a City, County, or State cannot require, by law, that a group apply for a permit for a rally? Are you saying that it cannot be illegal to camp in a public square? Are you really trying to make these arguments?

Because I do believe you will fail badly........

Presuming your point is valid, and presuming Oakland police officers are properly trained, specifically what method of crowd dispersion and removal or arrest of those who fail to comply with a local ordinance do you believe is necessary and acceptable?

Based on what I've heard from several different observers is objects were thrown at the police from the rear of the gathering and by unknown persons. Those standing in the front ranks did nothing of the kind. But one young man who was passively standing in a front rank was subjected to potentially lethal force, i.e., struck in the head by a projectile fired from the police ranks.

Do you consider that appropriate and competent police action under the circumstances? Or do you believe it was excessive and unnecessary force?

That's how the Anarchists work it. They are there to get other people hurt for the cause by antagonizing the Police. Maybe the Cops need to be less reactionary, and get better intelligence on the Trouble Makers, granted. Throwing projectiles and shooting off Fire Crackers, at a demonstration, should result in time in jail, real time.

 

[Intense]

You are definitely not a lawyer........ Are you even suggesting that a City, County, or State cannot require, by law, that a group apply for a permit for a rally? Are you saying that it cannot be illegal to camp in a public square? Are you really trying to make these arguments?

Because I do believe you will fail badly........

Presuming your point is valid, and presuming Oakland police officers are properly trained, specifically what method of crowd dispersion and removal or arrest of those who fail to comply with a local ordinance do you believe is necessary and acceptable?

Based on what I've heard from several different observers is objects were thrown at the police from the rear of the gathering and by unknown persons. Those standing in the front ranks did nothing of the kind. But one young man who was passively standing in a front rank was subjected to potentially lethal force, i.e., struck in the head by a projectile fired from the police ranks.

Do you consider that appropriate and competent police action under the circumstances? Or do you believe it was excessive and unnecessary force?

From the Videos, it looked excessive, it also looked provoked, which implies that the Organizers are incompetent and have poor planning skills. They need to get up to speed, and learn from their mistakes, just as much as the Authorities. The Organizers have a responsibility, this is their show. They seem to suck at taking care of their own.

 

[paulitician]

Calling yourself an 'Occupier' only incites possible violence. So i can understand this violence happening. Both the 'Occupiers' and the Police are to blame for this terrible incident. They shouldn't be occupying anything. We're all Americans aren't we? It's time to put an end to this Class Envy/Class Warfare game. Hopefully some responsible Politicians will step up and be leaders. We're all Americans so we shouldn't be turning against each other. No one wins when that happens.

 

[earlycuyler]

You are definitely not a lawyer........ Are you even suggesting that a City, County, or State cannot require, by law, that a group apply for a permit for a rally? Are you saying that it cannot be illegal to camp in a public square? Are you really trying to make these arguments?

Because I do believe you will fail badly........

Presuming your point is valid, and presuming Oakland police officers are properly trained, specifically what method of crowd dispersion and removal or arrest of those who fail to comply with a local ordinance do you believe is necessary and acceptable?

Based on what I've heard from several different observers is objects were thrown at the police from the rear of the gathering and by unknown persons. Those standing in the front ranks did nothing of the kind. But one young man who was passively standing in a front rank was subjected to potentially lethal force, i.e., struck in the head by a projectile fired from the police ranks.

Do you consider that appropriate and competent police action under the circumstances? Or do you believe it was excessive and unnecessary force?

There is NO evidence , and come to think of it, no witnesses that show or imply the police shot the guy with anything at all, or that the projectile came from the police ranks. Unless you found some new video or an eyewitness saying they saw the projectile hit the man. There is also the crowed that was around the guy when he got hit. Where are they ? There are at least 10 witnesses right there. There is also the sailor. He was with the guy through the whole incident. Where is he at ? He would have to have seen the whole thing since he was right next to the guy when it happened.

 

[MikeK]

Exercising there right to throw rocks and bottles, and ignoring an order to disperse. Fuck that guy. He should have listened and moved.

The only time a police officer has a legal right to use potentially lethal force is in defense of himself or others. So far no one has even vaguely suggested that the young fellow who was lethally struck in the head with a projectile fired by police had behaved aggressively or posed a threat to anyone. The only thing he could have been charged with is violation of a local ordinance, which is a Class-D misdemeanor.

 

[earlycuyler]

Exercising there right to throw rocks and bottles, and ignoring an order to disperse. Fuck that guy. He should have listened and moved.

The only time a police officer has a legal right to use potentially lethal force is in defense of himself or others. So far no one has even vaguely suggested that the young fellow who was lethally struck in the head with a projectile fired by police had behaved aggressively or posed a threat to anyone. The only thing he could have been charged with is violation of a local ordinance, which is a Class-D misdemeanor.

Ok so I assume you are a lawyer in Oakland California, where is the evidence that he was shot with a projectile fired by a policeman and not hit by something thrown by a protester ? And no one knows what he was doing. The crowed he was with all ran away and have not
(as far as we know) come forward to tell there story. Why ?

 

[Wicked Jester]

Exercising there right to throw rocks and bottles, and ignoring an order to disperse. Fuck that guy. He should have listened and moved.

The only time a police officer has a legal right to use potentially lethal force is in defense of himself or others. So far no one has even vaguely suggested that the young fellow who was lethally struck in the head with a projectile fired by police had behaved aggressively or posed a threat to anyone. The only thing he could have been charged with is violation of a local ordinance, which is a Class-D misdemeanor.

Maybe you need to blame his fellow liberal idiots who started throwing shit at the cops, and are the ones who are ultimately responsible for his dumbass being hit by whatever he was hit with.

And, we still have no idea what he was hit with. For all we know, he could have been clocked by a bottle thrown by one of the violent dirty liberals who were throwing shit from behind the cops, in the direction of that dumbass who was staring down the cops, and obviously trying to provoke them.

 

[MikeK]

Exercising there right to throw rocks and bottles, and ignoring an order to disperse. Fuck that guy. He should have listened and moved.

You have video of the crowd "throwing rocks and bottles" prior to the police moving in and assaulting the crowd?

Please feel free to present it.

Nope, Got proof that it did not happen?[...]

Can you prove you're not a drug dealer?

 

[MikeK]

No cop shot the guy, he wasn't shot. He was injured by a flash bang, I expect he threw himself on top of it! To be injured by a flash bang you have to be very close, almost touching.

You wouldn't want to bet money on that.

The young man was hospitalized for severe concussion. There was no mention of burns. If his head was close enough to the device to cause that kind of trauma he would have third degree burns.

The unanimous educated speculation is he was struck at very close range by either a metal tear gas canister or a rubber shotgun projectile.

 

[Lakhota]

No cop shot the guy, he wasn't shot. He was injured by a flash bang, I expect he threw himself on top of it! To be injured by a flash bang you have to be very close, almost touching.

You wouldn't want to bet money on that.

The young man was hospitalized for severe concussion. There was no mention of burns. If his head was close enough to the device to cause that kind of trauma he would have third degree burns.

The unanimous educated speculation is he was struck at very close range by either a metal tear gas canister or a rubber shotgun projectile.

It was obvious police brutality. They should not have evicted them from the park.

 

[earlycuyler]

They need to talk to this guy.

He is shown walking away from the incident an a video that was posted earlier in the thread. Right about 1:31 in you see the sailor guy with his flag. Where has he been and who is he ?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bytMNoKNeRA]Tear gas! Thrown at Occupy Oakland! - YouTube[/ame]

 

[earlycuyler]

You have video of the crowd "throwing rocks and bottles" prior to the police moving in and assaulting the crowd?

Please feel free to present it.

Nope, Got proof that it did not happen?[...]

Can you prove you're not a drug dealer?

To who, you ? Why the fuck do I give a shit what a guy or gal on a message board thinks I am ? You posted an opinion and so did I . The only difference between the two is you brought nothing to support yours. But yeah, to the ones that matter yes I can prove im not a drug dealer.

 

[Lakhota]

Fifteen NYPD Officers Surrender In Corruption Probe

 

[earlycuyler]

The sailor is Joshua Sheperd. this an AP interview. Nothing new, and no explanation why he kept walking when his buddy was supposedly shot in the head.

AP Interview with Joshua Shepherd and Matt Howard | Iraq Veterans Against the War

 

[earlycuyler]

Press release from veterans for peace.

Veterans For Peace :: News Item

There, he went to the front of the crowd immediately, waving the VFP flag. He said the crowd seemed considerably calmer. "It might be just my impression, but there seemed to be a considerable desire for peace and the crowd expressed that."

Next, the Oakland PD issued the "you're going to get arrested if you don't leave" warning. Shortly after that, Josh said, "People in the rear of the crowd threw eggs at the police and that was the OPD's cue to fire another barrage."

In that barrage, VFP and IVAW member, Scott Olsen was struck in the head with some sort of projectile and was severely injured.

 

[earlycuyler]

Fifteen NYPD Officers Surrender In Corruption Probe

Do You read this stuff before you link it ?

NEW YORK — An anonymous tip about a crooked cop grew during the past three years into a sweeping internal corruption probe on the under-the-table practice of fixing tickets, with dozens of wiretaps, 10,000 intercepted calls and an officer undercover as a barber in a sting, authorities said.

Thirteen New York Police Department officers, two sergeants and a lieutenant were slapped with criminal charges Friday, just three days after the embarrassing arrests of five officers in a separate gun-running probe.

 

[Lakhota]

Fifteen NYPD Officers Surrender In Corruption Probe

Do You read this stuff before you link it ?

NEW YORK — An anonymous tip about a crooked cop grew during the past three years into a sweeping internal corruption probe on the under-the-table practice of fixing tickets, with dozens of wiretaps, 10,000 intercepted calls and an officer undercover as a barber in a sting, authorities said.

Thirteen New York Police Department officers, two sergeants and a lieutenant were slapped with criminal charges Friday, just three days after the embarrassing arrests of five officers in a separate gun-running probe.

And your point is...?