Irrefutable legal arguments supporting the right of secession

[thereisnospoon]

Sounds like you just want to get your ass kicked again.

Dude you couldn't kick the ass of a Room temperature IQ 4th grader.
The OP stated some facts. You don't like them.
So you issue an idle threat.
What's that make you into?

 

[nuhuh]

Sounds like you just want to get your ass kicked again.

Dude you couldn't kick the ass of a Room temperature IQ 4th grader.
The OP stated some facts. You don't like them.
So you issue an idle threat.
What's that make you into?

It means I judged the situation correctly. If they want to start trouble be ready for an ass kicking.

 

[DarkFury]

A tiny minority of childish conservatives in a given state can’t ‘secede’ as a consequence of their infantile temper-tantrum because the Supreme Court ruled in a manner they don’t approve of.

Real history proves once again you are an idiot.
1, Virginia left the north to join the south.
2, The people of WEST Virginia left the south as well.
3, But they ALSO left the north.
That IS how the STATE of West Virginia was born.
A DOUBLE secession.

 

[DarkFury]

Sounds like you just want to get your ass kicked again.

Dude you couldn't kick the ass of a Room temperature IQ 4th grader.
The OP stated some facts. You don't like them.
So you issue an idle threat.
What's that make you into?

It means I judged the situation correctly. If they want to start trouble be ready for an ass kicking.

No you like any other typical limp wrist liberal use a threat and call on a central government for oppression and abuse to save your ass.

 

[my2¢]

Lincoln didn't start the war, those firing on Fort Sumter did that. Though he might have said, "Bring it on."

Wrong, asshole. this claim has already been refuted 25 different ways.

Okay, you're right. I admit to making up the, "Bring it on" part.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

The states need to re-claim their power to nullify. That was TAKEN and simply needs to be taken back.

Nonsense.

The states never had the ‘authority’ to ‘nullify,’ it was always the original intent of the Framing Generation that Federal law be supreme, that the rulings of Federal courts be supreme, and that the Constitution and its case law be the supreme law of the land, immune from attack by the states. (Article VI, US Cont., McCulloch v. Maryland, Cooper v. Aaron)

If they had no right to nullify, then how did 7 of them do exactly that?

Take a look at what Scalia has to say about secession.

If you haven't figured it out by now, I don't give a damn what the hacks on the Supreme Court say about the Constitution. They are all political whores with no honor or integrity.

I have you dialed in alright, you just need to know your idea ranks right up there with treason. One nation indivisible and that's the line you want to cross.

Secession was preceded by a divisive government that acted in a brutish manner, setting itself against half the people by passing harsh economic sanctions and tariffs. Our nation is NOT indivisible and the use of force to dragoon seceding states back into the union is not the same as consensual unity. Our government today is on the exact same course, callously pitting itself against the people, legislating from the Supreme Court, suing states who enforce immigration laws, utilizing entire branches of federal government to target and persecute political opponents, and forcing Husseincare down everyone's throats.

Secession is coming and this time the tyrants you worship won't win.

 

[nuhuh]

Sounds like you just want to get your ass kicked again.

Dude you couldn't kick the ass of a Room temperature IQ 4th grader.
The OP stated some facts. You don't like them.
So you issue an idle threat.
What's that make you into?

It means I judged the situation correctly. If they want to start trouble be ready for an ass kicking.

No you like any other typical limp wrist liberal use a threat and call on a central government for oppression and abuse to save your ass.

I wouldn't have to lift a finger. Do whatever it is you want to do and I guarantee they will be waiting for you. They monitor message boards and probably already have your address anyway.

 

[nuhuh]

Nonsense.

The states never had the ‘authority’ to ‘nullify,’ it was always the original intent of the Framing Generation that Federal law be supreme, that the rulings of Federal courts be supreme, and that the Constitution and its case law be the supreme law of the land, immune from attack by the states. (Article VI, US Cont., McCulloch v. Maryland, Cooper v. Aaron)

If they had no right to nullify, then how did 7 of them do exactly that?

Take a look at what Scalia has to say about secession.

If you haven't figured it out by now, I don't give a damn what the hacks on the Supreme Court say about the Constitution. They are all political whores with no honor or integrity.

I have you dialed in alright, you just need to know your idea ranks right up there with treason. One nation indivisible and that's the line you want to cross.

Secession was preceded by a divisive government that acted in a brutish manner, setting itself against half the people by passing harsh economic sanctions and tariffs. Our nation is NOT indivisible and the use of force to dragoon seceding states back into the union is not the same as consensual unity. Our government today is on the exact same course, callously pitting itself against the people, legislating from the Supreme Court, suing states who enforce immigration laws, utilizing entire branches of federal government to target and persecute political opponents, and forcing Husseincare down everyone's throats.

Secession is coming and this time the tyrants you worship won't win.

Sorry, they probably have a bunker buster suppository already custom made for you.

 

[regent]

If there are irrefutable legal arguments that states have the right to secede, why didn't those Southern Civil War states use those irrefutable legal arguments earlier?

Lincoln didn't give a damn about logic and facts. He was an accomplished manipulator and propagandist, and he used his skills to get the result he wanted. The dumbass Yankees were too stupid to see through his con.

But if the arguments were irrefutable how could Lincoln resist? Sounds like the arguments were refutable, and if that's true and the law doesn't work that pretty much leaves force, and force didn't seem to work either.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

it was always the original intent of the Framing Generation that Federal law be supreme, that the rulings of Federal courts be supreme, and that the Constitution and its case law be the supreme law of the land, immune from attack by the states.

Only within the parameters of enumerated powers. The federal government had no rights under the Constitution to grant itself additional power short of an amendment to the Constitution.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Current SCOTUS is so far away from the framers that the framers would hang them for treason.

And the other two branches too.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

"
At Virginia’s ratification convention, the delegates said, “The powers granted under the Constitution being derived from the People of the United States may be resumed by them whensoever the same shall be perverted to their injury or oppression.” In Federalist Paper 39, James Madison, the father of the Constitution, cleared up what “the people” meant, saying the proposed Constitution would be subject to ratification by the people, “not as individuals composing one entire nation, but as composing the distinct and independent States to which they respectively belong.” In a word, states were sovereign; the federal government was a creation, an agent, a servant of the states.

On the eve of the War of 1861, even unionist politicians saw secession as a right of states. Maryland Rep. Jacob M. Kunkel said, “Any attempt to preserve the Union between the States of this Confederacy by force would be impractical, and destructive of republican liberty.” The northern Democratic and Republican parties favored allowing the South to secede in peace."

Do States Have a Right of Secession - Capitalism Magazine

As Justice Scalia noted the decision was decided by the Civil War. Your point is moot.

In other words, might makes right. You, Lincoln and Hitler agree with him. That's hardly surprising.

So why do you have to secede? Just move to Idaho or North Dakota, take over the state government, rewrite the state constitution, make new laws and live the way you want.

How about you just get the hell out and go to an ALREADY socialist country? We LOVE OUR Republic. You don't? LEAVE.

Well I don't think you love your Republic if you want to divide it and I have the law on my side.

It is already divided, perhaps irrevocably.

 

[regent]

it was always the original intent of the Framing Generation that Federal law be supreme, that the rulings of Federal courts be supreme, and that the Constitution and its case law be the supreme law of the land, immune from attack by the states.

Only within the parameters of enumerated powers. The federal government had no rights under the Constitution to grant itself additional power short of an amendment to the Constitution.

The national government has more powers than the enumerated powers in Section 8. Of course the necessary and proper clause in eight has allowed the national government the power to do many things and keep pace with today's world.

 

[DarkFury]

We have had more then a few rights STOLEN. A quick look finds even more..
"
Even though the Articles of Confederation and the Constitution were established by many of the same people,[dubious – discuss] the two documents are very different. Stylistically, the Articles are more wordy, less straightforward and less quotable than the Constitution. Functionally, they lay out very different forms of government. The original five-page Articles contained a preamble, 13 articles, a conclusion, and a signatory section. The preamble states that the signatory states "agree to certain articles of Confederation and perpetual Union" between the 13 states. The following list contains short summaries of each of the 13 articles.

1. 
   
   
   • Establishes the name of the confederation with these words: "The style of this confederacy shall be 'The United States of America.'"
   • Asserts the sovereignty of each state, except for the specific powers delegated to the confederation government, i.e. "Each state retains its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every power, jurisdiction, and right, which is not by this Confederation expressly delegated."
   • Not being sovereign, it does not call the United States of America a "nation" or "government," but instead says, "The said States hereby severally enter into a firm league of friendship with each other, for their common defense, the security of their liberties, and their mutual and general welfare, binding themselves to assist each other, against all force offered to, or attacks made upon them, or any of them, on account of religion, sovereignty, trade, or any other pretense whatever."
   • But to instill a national feeling, "[t]he better to secure and perpetuate mutual friendship and intercourse among the people of the different States in this union," it establishes equal treatment and freedom of movement for the free inhabitants of each state to pass unhindered between the states, excluding "paupers, vagabonds, and fugitives from justice." All these people are entitled to equal rights established by the state into which he travels. If a crime is committed in one state and the perpetrator flees to another state, he will be extradited to and tried in the state in which the crime was committed.
   • Allocates one vote in the Congress of the Confederation (the "United States in Congress Assembled") to each state, which is entitled to a delegation of between two and seven members. Members of Congress are appointed by state legislatures. Also, individuals may not serve more than three out of any six years.
   • Only the central government is allowed to conduct foreign political or commercial relations and to declare war. No state or official may accept foreign gifts or titles, and granting any title of nobility is forbidden to all. States are restrained from forming sub-national groups. No state may tax or interfere with treaty stipulations already proposed. No state may engage in war, without permission of Congress, unless invaded or that is imminent on the frontier; no state may maintain a peace-time standing army or navy, unless infested by pirates, but every State is required to keep ready, a well-regulated, disciplined, and equipped militia, with sufficient public stores of a due number of field pieces, tents, a proper quantity of arms, ammunition and camp equipage.
   • Whenever an army is raised for common defense, colonels and military ranks below colonel will be named by the state legislatures.
   • Expenditures by the United States of America will be paid by funds raised by state legislatures, and apportioned to the states based on the real property values of each.
   • Defines the sole and exclusive right and power of the United States in Congress assembled to determine peace and war; to exchange ambassadors; to enter into treaties and alliances, with some provisos; to establish rules for deciding all cases of captures or prizes on land or water; to grant letters of marque and reprisal (documents authorizing privateers) in times of peace; to appoint courts for the trial of pirates and crimes committed on the high seas; to establish courts for appeals in all cases of captures, but no member of Congress may be appointed a judge; to set weights and measures (including coins), and for Congress to serve as a final court for disputes between states.
   • "The Committee of the States, or any nine of them, shall be authorized to execute, in the recess of Congress, such of the powers of Congress as the United States in Congress assembled, by the consent of the nine States, shall from time to time think expedient to vest them with; provided that no power be delegated to the said Committee, for the exercise of which, by the Articles of Confederation, the voice of nine States in the Congress of the United States assembled be requisite."
   • If "Canada" (as the British-held Province of Quebec was also known) accedes to this confederation, it will be admitted.[15]
   • Reaffirms that the Confederation accepts war debt incurred by Congress before the existence of the Articles.
   • Declares that the Articles are perpetual, and can only be altered by approval of Congress with ratification by all the state legislatures.

Articles of Confederation - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
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As you can see we were designed to be 13 republics gathered and the country was NEVER intended to have a lone central government. It even called out the United States by name was never meant to be a stand alone agency.

 

[Socialist]

Yeah, I'm sure you wished the south successfully seceded so they could continue the enslavement of blacks. Fuck off.

 

[DarkFury]

Yeah, I'm sure you wished the south successfully seceded so they could continue the enslavement of blacks. Fuck off.

No stupid that is not what it is about. Now fuck off.

 

[Socialist]

Yeah, I'm sure you wished the south successfully seceded so they could continue the enslavement of blacks. Fuck off.

No stupid that is not what it is about. Now fuck off.

Yeah, not like the mean reason for the south leaving was over slavery..

 

[DarkFury]

Yeah, I'm sure you wished the south successfully seceded so they could continue the enslavement of blacks. Fuck off.

No stupid that is not what it is about. Now fuck off.

Yeah, not like the mean reason for the south leaving was over slavery..

Look stupid the question of slavery did not come up until almost TWO YEARS AFTER the war started. Got that retard?
Try reading a book instead of spewing crap from the left wing okay idiot?

 

[bripat9643]

Sounds like you just want to get your ass kicked again.

Dude you couldn't kick the ass of a Room temperature IQ 4th grader.
The OP stated some facts. You don't like them.
So you issue an idle threat.
What's that make you into?

It means I judged the situation correctly. If they want to start trouble be ready for an ass kicking.

That's the motto of a thug.

 

[bripat9643]

If there are irrefutable legal arguments that states have the right to secede, why didn't those Southern Civil War states use those irrefutable legal arguments earlier?

Lincoln didn't give a damn about logic and facts. He was an accomplished manipulator and propagandist, and he used his skills to get the result he wanted. The dumbass Yankees were too stupid to see through his con.

But if the arguments were irrefutable how could Lincoln resist? Sounds like the arguments were refutable, and if that's true and the law doesn't work that pretty much leaves force, and force didn't seem to work either.

Lincoln ignored logic for the same reason you do, because he was a thug.